PlayStation 4+/4.5/4K/VR

[Nz17]

Sony's more powerful version of the PlayStation 4 -- also known as the "PlayStation 4.5" and "PlayStation 4K" -- is expected to be announced prior to the launch of PlayStation VR this October, according to a new report from the Wall Street Journal. The upgraded PS4 will reportedly be able to play 4K resolution content, according to the report, and deliver "a high-end virtual-reality experience."

Source: https://games.slashdot.org/story/16/03/28/177226/

So whatever SONY is going to call this thing, what do you all think of the idea of the PlayStation 4+ / 4.5 / 4K / VR?

[Tanooki]

I think it's a nice idea but screws existing owners (though few I'm sure) who could afford to invest in all the required equipment who would have to buy another PS4. Nothing new though but Gameboys are far cheaper than HD consoles.

[eskobar]

Since the original Playstation there has been rumors of a more powerful revision of the console and it has not happened. It would be good to have a system revision because I don't own a PS4 and it would be great to get one at better price.


In reality is quite hard to do this, because you always will be limited by the specs of the original hardware to create new content to offer upgrades on games but still offering backwards compatibility for the PS4 owners because I just can't see a company as Sony to abandon the adopters of the original hardware, which are millions.

PSP had a revision that had more RAM and through firmware updates they allowed the developers to use more of the system. The PS3 had a similar firmware update that allowed developers to use more power of the system.

If the upgrade is not major, I can see it happening ... like the NDSi, New 3DS or the RAM upgrade for Saturn or N64 but it would be only for a niche audience.

[kupomogli]

I think they should call it PS4.1.

I hear a lot of complaints about it, and at first I didn't like the sound of it, but after thinking about it, I really don't care that it's getting released. The thing is, is that whether the PS4.1 releases or not, every PS4 game that releases will be the same quality on your current PS4. The PS4.1 will just allow these games to be upscaled to 4k and might even allow them to run at increased fps. Being that this is being released as a premium product, hopefully Sony includes disc based backwards compatibility with PS2 and PS1 where you rip your games from the disc and there's a disc check to play them, doubtful but hopeful(whether they do or not, this will inevitably happen on the vanilla PS4 once hacked.)

If you guys happen to remember. The PSP2000 and 3000 had double the ram(and TV out) of the original PSP which gave the Slim versions better loading times, yet there was never a game released for the later PSP versions that couldn't play on the original. So I have no issue with keeping my vanilla PS4 and then at the end of the gen, if it's something that does improve the quality of the games I own, I'll purchase the PS4.1 when I can get it for $200 or less.

This is only a rumor what with the stuff I've heard saying it's going to be $400, which means If Sony was to release this two years ago we'd have seen a PS4 at a price point of $600+, and we may have seen PS360 all over again. With how well the PS4 is doing because of the price point it came out, we're starting to see a massive amount of Japanese support alongside western releases or atleast English Asian versions on a regular basis. Just think about what would have happened if PS4 didn't take off as it did, so I have no issues with the way they handled this.

PS4.1 is kupo approved.


If the upgrade is not major, I can see it happening ... like the NDSi, New 3DS or the RAM upgrade for Saturn or N64 but it would be only for a niche audience.

This is actually what I think SHOULDN'T happen. In the case of the DSi and New 3DS, Nintendo released the same hardware and released games that benefited from this hardware to attract more sales. This is just a slap in the face to the millions and millions of fans who purchased your earlier revision. Want to play Xenoblade Chronicles on your 3DS, that'll be $180 for a NEW 3DS on top of the cost of the game. Then what happens afterwards? Nintendo doesn't release another game that is New 3DS compatible, so not only does Nintendo screw the original owners of the console, they screw the ones that upgrade thinking that Nintendo will continue to take advantage of this hardware with new games.

The N64 is okay since it's just an add on that increases ram to use additional options, make the graphical textures a bit better, or run better in general. It's a fairly cheap add on though, not a $180 purchase.

[PreZZ]

The beauty about consoles is everybody is on the same level performance wise, and i dont mind upgrades for new versions like the 360 adding hdmi output, but upgrading the gpu?!? F#@$ that dont cheap out next time you release a console and think long term, like you did with ps3. All games released on ps4 so far would probably still be possible on ps3 at a lower resolution, but still decent.

[Tanooki]

This is actually what I think SHOULDN'T happen. In the case of the DSi and New 3DS, Nintendo released the same hardware and released games that benefited from this hardware to attract more sales. This is just a slap in the face to the millions and millions of fans who purchased your earlier revision. Want to play Xenoblade Chronicles on your 3DS, that'll be $180 for a NEW 3DS on top of the cost of the game. Then what happens afterwards? Nintendo doesn't release another game that is New 3DS compatible, so not only does Nintendo screw the original owners of the console, they screw the ones that upgrade thinking that Nintendo will continue to take advantage of this hardware with new games.

The N64 is okay since it's just an add on that increases ram to use additional options, make the graphical textures a bit better, or run better in general. It's a fairly cheap add on though, not a $180 purchase.

Oh it gets worse now with the latest release on the New3DS as it makes the issue damned glaring. I have 3 words for you Hyrule Warriors Legends.
100% of the reviews online if they're not just Nintendo boolickers with blinders will say that they lied marketing it as a 3DS game when it should have only been labeled for New3DS. It's almost non-functional on the older hardware. Graphics shudder, framerate is awful, drop out, other sketchy problems. On the N3DS though it's like watching the WiiU title just not in HD more or less and with the same if not better fluidity too. We don't need people going HMM we could halfass the quality on the PS4 yet in the 4.1 systems it will be smooth as glass. If I ended up on the bad end of that I'd be furious and be finished with the game maker for wasting my non-refundable purchase and I'd stop buying future PS4 games until any reviews came out not trusting them to pull that crap again.

[Tupin]

Difference is that I believe the N3DS actually does run things a lot better and can do stuff the regular one can't.

Yeah when I read this story I could only think about how this is going to be the last traditional console gen. Wouldn't surprise me if in the future consoles just go full on customizable PC.

[Niku-Sama]

I don't think it's going to be a complete hand changer. I think it'll be like what some one already mentioned with hdmi on the 360.

This time though it's going to be hdmi 2.0 and a bit more umpf to play games upscaled to 4k since the existing APU can't handle it. I doubt it is going to change how any of the existing games play or give any one an advantage.

[eskobar]

The short story of the video game industry shows us that add-ons, upgrades or updated versions of a console only confuses the consumer and I think that Sony is a smart company that is failing on his core business, the TV market, and making a mistake with the PS4, that is doing ok, can be very harmful for the company.

Sony has tried with PSX and Vita TV to widen the market but so far no luck, maybe with the VR excuse then can make an entrance for a new PS4VR ... Hi-end consumers and early adopters don't care to spend another 800 or 1,000 usd in a new PS with VR System if the can show a good piece of hardware.

[Tanooki]

Difference is that I believe the N3DS actually does run things a lot better and can do stuff the regular one can't.

Yeah when I read this story I could only think about how this is going to be the last traditional console gen. Wouldn't surprise me if in the future consoles just go full on customizable PC.

All I have to say to that is, good luck with it, and I actually kind of mean it. I'd rather them perhaps develop a software suite that'll strap into Windows, Mac-OS and even Linux where if you have a badass enough PC you can run the console stuff, and then (like MS already) sell a controller that works on those computers via the USB or bluetooth ports I'd be up for that. Save me some damned room and I could just maintain a damned nice computer in the end. I know I'm talking stand alone console genocide, but they're doing it anyway this last gen since the 2 big fish basically made closed PC environments which have like 90% compatible parts/capabilities between the two which is why they run so much and so fairly similarly, just that the PS4 does it a bit more and better which is why it can edge out the One slightly and can get the odd exclusive or their own goodies which outshine it while MS can shovel over stuff to PC already in better form like Titanfall.

[parallaxscroll]

http://i.imgur.com/avrwNtu.jpg

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1202462


Related info from a meeting we had yesterday was waiting for it to be approved before posting.

Price is currently $399.99 they were discussing a better CPU which would raise the price to $499.99 we were guaranteed the price will be no higher than $499.99 (He mentioned the CPU upgrade quite a bit almost as if they haven't really decided on a final spec could be a pricing issue.) also there is currently no plan for any type of trade in program for current PS4 users but that could change.

They stated that the GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster. They did not say exactly how fast but that is was running at a higher clock speed while being much smaller than the original.

It will have a 4k blu ray player and will upscale games that are not natively 4k.

Also there was talk of some sort of VR lounge for the media player app which is supposed to be getting a substantial upgrade.

It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance.

It was also made very clear that current games would not be getting any type of performance upgrades by being played on the system and any benefits to older games would come via patch per game and per developer. When asked if this was going to happen the response was "Its a possibility but doubtful with the exception of a handful of games."
We were also given a list of games that will be available at launch that will directly take advantage of the PS4K where the differences are and I will quote him "Significant."

For the PSVR

Eve Valkyrie
Robinson
GT Sport

For the PS4K

Deep Down (Thought this was dead)
GOW4 (This was the exact abbreviation on the sheet I can only assume its god of war 4)

There were more games on the list but these are the ones that stood out to me.


That's all I can remember off the top of my head I'll see if I can get any more information.

Even though this is gonna piss off a lot of people (it already is, even as a rumor) I would be on board if the price was kept to $400 with twice the GPU performance.

[kupomogli]

Whether there are significant improvements or not, all of the content will still play on my PS4 as is so I'm content. It'll be like playing PS4 versions compared to playing PS3 version, and then end of the gen when the PS4.1 is $200, I'll purchase one and all those discs I've played on the PS4 for all these years will still work on the PS4.1. If the PS5 is backwards compatible I won't even bother with the PS4.1.

[Gameguy]

Would I still be able to hook this new PS4 up to my CRT with coaxial RF input?

[eskobar]

Would I still be able to hook this new PS4 up to my CRT with coaxial RF input?

Yes, you only need the 59.99 hdmi to rf converter

[Gameguy]

Yes, you only need the 59.99 hdmi to rf converter
Then I guess it's possible I would get this console eventually, but I don't like having to buy a separate converter for it. Currently the main TV I'm using at the moment is a 13" Toshiba with just coaxial input, I have other TVs but they're not set up at the moment because of space issues. I really don't care about high definition anything, besides the Sega Genesis which boasts high definition graphics right on it.

This whole current trend of needing to buy a new TV every 5 years just seems stupid to me.

[kupomogli]

Here's an idea, really just wishful thinking, but because the game runs at 720p, Quantum Break is one of the best looking games this gen. If devs were to push everything on the vanilla PS4 to run at 720p @ 30/60fps for a higher graphics fidelity, and then the PS4.1 ran these same games at 1080p @ 30/60fps upscaled to 4k, so whether you're playing on the vanilla PS4 or PS4.1, it'd be more of a leap in graphics quality. For the most part, while it's noticeable, 720p and 1080p is really a small visual difference, with most people not even able to tell the difference when looking at a video side by side. Most people that can tell might only see the outer pixels on objects with a sort of jagged blur(don't know the specific name.) I certainly wouldn't mind this happening, and when the PS4.1 drops in price in the future, or if the PS5 is backwards compatible, I'll still have a console that will be able t play the games in their full resolution.

Most PS360 games ran at 720p and no one cared. How many times have you heard people say they can't tell much of a difference in the original last gen release and the current gen release of a ported game? Some people are making such a big deal saying that this gen is more like a half gen, that this would fix the problems that those people are having and push the quality. The only thing is that if it's multiconsole it'll have to be developed for the Xbox One at 720p, so can't fully benefit from the more powerful PS4 hardware. Good thing is atleast those games might be 900p or some higher resolution on the vanilla PS4.

Vanilla and Xbox One players would be able to play these same games with better graphics, albeit a lower resolution, while PS4.1 players will be able to play it with the same graphics at a higher resolution and maybe framerate. There's probably more people who would be grateful for this change rather than disappointed.

[Gamevet]

There has to be some kind of up-scaling going on for the PS4k (or whatever they want to call it) to run games at 4k. The GPU still isn't powerful enough (even at twice the power) to do proper 4k. There are games that a GTX 970 can't run very well on a 4K monitor, without some serious cranking down of the graphics options.

[kupomogli]

There has to be some kind of up-scaling going on for the PS4k (or whatever they want to call it) to run games at 4k. The GPU still isn't powerful enough (even at twice the power) to do proper 4k. There are games that a GTX 970 can't run very well on a 4K monitor, without some serious cranking down of the graphics options.

Yeah there's going to be upscaling I'm sure. I'm sure that it's not going to be native except for 4k movies. Regardless it's still going to require some processing power. But if the 4.1 exists, I'm hopefully my idea above your post is what happens. Graphics quality will push much further at 720p for vanilla PS4 and 1080p for 4.1.

[otaku]

all i know is i'm holding off on buying a ps4 but if this thing is just 4k not sure i care as i have no 4k tv...

[Ze_ro]

The real problem here is that the PS4 (and Xbox One frankly) was nowhere near as powerful as it should have been when it was released. When the Xbox 360 and PS3 came out, they had some truly impressive hardware that was well beyond what the majority of computers could do... but the PS4 wasn't much more than a mid-range PC. How are you supposed to have a long hardware cycle when you're already using outdated tech? The critics all said this, but were shouted down and labeled PC Master Race.

What I'd like to see is something midway between a console and a PC, with removable CPU and GPU modules. Label the games appropriately ("Requires Core Level 2, Graphics Level 3"), design the modules to have simple plastic casings and easy connections, and away you go. Would it really be so complicated that people couldn't handle it? It worked fine with the N64's expansion pak, didn't it?

--Zero

[Gameguy]

The real problem here is that the PS4 (and Xbox One frankly) was nowhere near as powerful as it should have been when it was released. When the Xbox 360 and PS3 came out, they had some truly impressive hardware that was well beyond what the majority of computers could do... but the PS4 wasn't much more than a mid-range PC.
It seems like Sony tried to avoid their previous mistake with launching the PS3 for $500-$600, the console didn't start selling well for a couple years until they cut the price down.

$300 is about right for a console price, pricing them higher doesn't work so well as home computers aren't $3000 anymore. You can buy a suitable new laptop for $600 so why buy a console for the same price?


How are you supposed to have a long hardware cycle when you're already using outdated tech?
Ask Nintendo how they kept doing it.


What I'd like to see is something midway between a console and a PC....
Something like the 3DO or CDi.


with removable CPU and GPU modules. Label the games appropriately ("Requires Core Level 2, Graphics Level 3"), design the modules to have simple plastic casings and easy connections, and away you go. Would it really be so complicated that people couldn't handle it? It worked fine with the N64's expansion pak, didn't it?
Worked great for Sega with the Sega CD and 32X.

[Ze_ro]

Ask Nintendo how they kept doing it.
Nintendo is in a market of their own. They may be getting by with what they're doing, but they've totally lost a huge portion of the gamer demographic in the process. This is part of why the Wii U is tanking miserably.


Something like the 3DO or CDi.
In what way are those halfway to being PC's? My idea is for a more modular design, and the only thing modular about either of those consoles was the digital video add-ons.

The 360 and PS3 already have removable/upgradeable hard drives, and that seems to have worked out well enough. People understand it, and it hasn't splintered the market.


Worked great for Sega with the Sega CD and 32X.
I don't think you can point to those two add-ons and make blanket statements about add-ons being a bad idea overall. The SegaCD and 32X had very specific failures that led to their downfall. The CD add-on for the TG-16/PC Engine was very successful, as was the Famicom Disk System.

Also, if any mods are reading this, I suggest merging this thread in with this thread (https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?174914-Eurogamer-via-Giantbomb-Revealed-Sony-s-plan-for-PlayStation-4K-codename-Neo).

--Zero

[Gameguy]

Nintendo is in a market of their own. They may be getting by with what they're doing, but they've totally lost a huge portion of the gamer demographic in the process. This is part of why the Wii U is tanking miserably.
Nintendo always aimed their consoles at the real consumers of them, kids and teenagers. The Wii U is tanking because I know of nothing available on it besides Splatoon and Mario Maker, they just didn't advertise the console well enough. I saw plenty of ads for the new Tomb Raider on TV along with the new Uncharted and Sunset Overdrive, and there was plenty of mention of Metal Gear Solid 5 around(can't remember if this was actually on TV or just online like a youtube ad). I don't recall any TV ads for Nintendo Wii U games. Maybe Splatoon but I think that was just a few online ads. It just feels like a hardware update to the Wii the same way there's plenty of DS/3DS variants. I can still remember the various TV ads for the Gameboy Color when that came out, and the ads for the Wii when that was new. I can't think of anything for the Wii U for whatever reason.


In what way are those halfway to being PC's?
Well just quickly quoting Wikipedia for the CD-I, the "device was created to provide more functionality than an audio CD player or game console, but at a lower price than a personal computer with a CD-ROM drive at the time." It was basically designed to be halfway between a gaming console and a home computer. Only instead of people seeing it as a cheaper PC, they saw it as an expensive game console.

I pretty much feel the same towards the 3DO as it mostly focused on CD-ROM type computer games like a cheaper computer, heck there was even a PC ISA expansion card available that allowed Windows PCs to play 3DO games. There wasn't just a single console design available, it was more of a hardware standard manufactured by several companies the same way VHS players were sold. There were also plans and announcements for an expansion to be made available with the M2, which later became a project for a new separate console, which got scrapped before release.



The 360 and PS3 already have removable/upgradeable hard drives, and that seems to have worked out well enough. People understand it, and it hasn't splintered the market.
Selling storage space is different than other hardware, it's no different than needing to buy memory cards depending on how much storage you're using. It's different than requiring certain CPU or GPU expansions for game compatibility.

The whole appeal of consoles to me are easy compatibility, I can just buy a console and know that games I'll buy will just work on it right out of the box. If I'm going to be messing around with different hardware configurations, various settings, and dealing with patches or updates, I'll stick with computer games. I'm going to be owning a computer anyway, I might as well just play games on that and not bother to buy a console.


I don't think you can point to those two add-ons and make blanket statements about add-ons being a bad idea overall. The SegaCD and 32X had very specific failures that led to their downfall. The CD add-on for the TG-16/PC Engine was very successful, as was the Famicom Disk System.
Those successful add ons only sold decently outside of North America. Here they either sold poorly or weren't available at all. Finding any Turbografx games here is difficult, finding CD-ROM games is getting near impossible without spending hundreds of dollars as the games are just that rare now. I'm saying this as someone who owns Sega CD, 32X, Turbo CD, and Famicom Disk System hardware. I don't hate them, but they just won't sell well to a mainstream consumer. Not even going into the whole various System Cards needed to play certain Turbo CD games, or needing a Turbo Booster Plus to save games. It's easier just to use a Turbo Duo which has everything needed built into one package. Really what sold well in North America was just the regular Turbografx console without any of the add ons.

[Ze_ro]

Well just quickly quoting Wikipedia for the CD-I, the "device was created to provide more functionality than an audio CD player or game console, but at a lower price than a personal computer with a CD-ROM drive at the time." It was basically designed to be halfway between a gaming console and a home computer. Only instead of people seeing it as a cheaper PC, they saw it as an expensive game console.
I always saw the CD-i as an attempt to capitalize on the "interactive multimedia" phenomenon that people thought was going to be a big thing. The only way this tech worked at all was with CD-ROM drives, which were really only in PC's at the time, so that's where multimedia started to make waves. Philips dove in headfirst, but it turned out the pool was awfully shallow.

3DO was not quite so bad. I think they had the same kind of ideas in mind, but they at least gave the thing a lot more regular gaming capabilities (while the CD-i was basically a step above DVD menus) which gave it a lot more opportunities once everyone realized interactive multimedia wasn't going to catch on. One thing I thought was great with the 3DO was how they licensed the tech out. I'd really love to see that happen on a wider scale... maybe Steam boxes will turn out in a similar way?


The whole appeal of consoles to me are easy compatibility, I can just buy a console and know that games I'll buy will just work on it right out of the box. If I'm going to be messing around with different hardware configurations, various settings, and dealing with patches or updates, I'll stick with computer games. I'm going to be owning a computer anyway, I might as well just play games on that and not bother to buy a console.
Thing is, most of that is already a problem with current systems. Hell, I have some Xbox 360 games that I probably can't play because my 20GB hard drive just isn't big enough to handle the mandatory install (maybe if I deleted damn near everything, but screw that). I also feel that downloading a 13GB patch on day 1 is completely unacceptable... I can't believe more people don't complain about that kind of crap.


Really what sold well in North America was just the regular Turbografx console without any of the add ons.
I feel that the CD add-on was received pretty well... I mean, the whole system was largely overlooked, so there aren't even that many TG-16's out there in the first place, but I think within the TG-16 community, it did okay. The fact that the merged it into the system certainly helped with the uptick.


Finding any Turbografx games here is difficult, finding CD-ROM games is getting near impossible without spending hundreds of dollars as the games are just that rare now.
Sadly, lots of the TurboChip games are hundreds of dollars too :( Not a good time to be a Turbo collector.

--Zero

[Tanooki]

Ze ro, you're right, and I had one so I remember it quite well. It was specifically sold not to kids, but to adults as a home TV multimedia device since that didn't exist outside the PC yet with disc based media. It was also specifically sold as an entertainment, education, audio and movie device -- a jack of all trades box. That's why the games it did have, the better stuff was rail shooters, FMV based stuff, pixel based games, and single screen arcade/puzzle stuff as that was its strengths. The fact it pulled off the Zelda games as well as it did was good because it wasn't made really exactly to handle large scrolling stages and action with it which is why when a piece of music looped it paused for like a half a second to restart it irregardless of what you were doing at the time.

I won't lie, I miss it. But I'll not buy another because I'd want what I had back, then go out from there, and there's no way in hell I'm paying the Nintendo douchy nerd flipper tax on the Zelda Faces of Evil/Wand of Gamelon + Hotel Mario tax. If by some sheer miracle I find them at a respectable or even (yeah right) cheap price somewhere I'll buy a CDi and put that money where my mouth is, but I'm not going to blow out like $75/ea or worse (whatever they are now) for each of those alone. If I get them all sub-original retail price complete (more or less, dont' care about the paper sleeve really) then I'll go after Lords of the Rising Sun, Mutant Rampage Body Slam, Namco Museum, Tetris, Voyeur, Space Ace, Dragon's Lair, and various others I had and then stuff I couldn't afford at that age that looked interesting if it reviews have decently by current people (ie: aged well.)