First-person dungeon crawlers

[Edmond Dantes]

So here's an odd circumstance... I was watching a "true horror stories" vid on Youtube, and one of the stories involved two people exploring an abandoned school and going into the basement, where they encounter crazed homeless people.

Oddly, this awakened in me a desire to crawl some dungeons.

So, what are some favorite dungeon crawlers of yours? Particulrly of the first-person variety, like Eye of the Beholder or Wizardry (to name some more popular ones). In particular are there any you like but don't seem too well-known?

[celerystalker]

Well, these are console, as I didn't have a PC growing up, but...

Shining the Holy Ark (Saturn)
AD&D Slayer (3DO)
Super Black Onyx (Famicom)

[bb_hood]

Dragon Warrior

[Ze_ro]

Dungeon Master is always my go-to game in this category... but if that's too well-known, then I'm going to go ahead and recommend either of it's sequels: Dungeon Master II: Skullkeep, or Chaos Strikes Back.

Chaos Strikes Back was only ever released for the Atari ST for some strange reason, but here's a version (http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851) that was disassembled and remade for modern operating systems. I was playing it on my Pandora earlier and it works great.

If you have an Amiga handy (or don't mind emulating), I'd also recommend Black Crypt (http://hol.abime.net/126). It's very much a Dungeon Master ripoff, but it's a very good one.

--Zero

[Edmond Dantes]

Dragon Warrior

1) not first person

2) arguably not a dungeon crawler

3) I'm actually already playing it ;)

Actually, I did find a rather interesting dungeon crawl game for the NES.... Swords & Serpents. Its apparently by the same guys as The Bard's Tale but its an NES exclusive. Not sure how that happens.


Chaos Strikes Back was only ever released for the Atari ST for some strange reason, but here's a version (http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851) that was disassembled and remade for modern operating systems. I was playing it on my Pandora earlier and it works great.

Wasn't CSB also on the Amiga? I could swear that it had an Amiga-only intro animation even...

I actually downloaded two remakes/ports--CBSwin (which emulates the original Atari ST versions of Dungeon Master and Chaos) and Return to Chaos... I keep forgetting I have them. Was actually really into Dungeon Master due to being like "Ah, so this is what inspired Eye of the Beholder!" I've got a journal of all the rune combinations I've found...

Got lucky and found DMII at Goodwill, PC version. Apparently the Sega CD edition has different music. There's also a Saturn-exclusive game in the series that is totally "I must have that" levels.


If you have an Amiga handy (or don't mind emulating), I'd also recommend Black Crypt (http://hol.abime.net/126). It's very much a Dungeon Master ripoff, but it's a very good one.

--Zero

Oh hell yes I could use more Amiga games (even though I do have to play them emulated)!

[sfchakan]

The aforementioned Shining games and the Shin Megami Tensei series.

[Emperor Megas]

AD&D Slayer (3DO)I know I already mentioned it the other week, but I freaking LOVE that game.

[Niku-Sama]

Enemy Zero


I think that's the name of the one I am thinking of I remember it being on Saturn and PC atleast and it was sort of more Sci-Fi but still a 1st person crawler

[Daria]

I really enjoyed the new-ish Grimlock games on steam. And the Etrian Odyssey series. Also Wizardy: Tales of the Forsaken Land. I have a hard time with older dungeon crawlers so I appreciate the presentation of the modern titles plus Etrian's mapping system.


If you want a good challenge though check out Megami Tensei 2 (Famicom) and Shin Megami Tensei. Great dark setting. Brutal challenge.

[bb_hood]

1) not first person

2) arguably not a dungeon crawler

3) I'm actually already playing it ;)


Sorry. I totally failed. Ive been playing Dragon Warrior II lately and Ive got DW on the brain.

[Daria]

Sorry. I totally failed. Ive been playing Dragon Warrior II lately and Ive got DW on the brain.

Makes you feel any better I was recently playing through DQ1 in Japanese.

[Cornelius]

I never played it myself, but I remember reading something that made me want to play Stonekeep, and I've heard it is good.

[Scissors]

Actually, I did find a rather interesting dungeon crawl game for the NES.... Swords & Serpents. Its apparently by the same guys as The Bard's Tale but its an NES exclusive. Not sure how that happens.


Swords and Serpents isn't bad. I thought the combat was pretty unique at the time. It allows you to target different parts of your enemies (heat, body, and feet). It uses passwords that are pretty long that don't even save everything, so you may not want to turn the game off until you finish it (or just don't want to play anymore).

Although I haven't played them yet, I've heard good things about Orcs & Elves and The Dark Spire on DS.

[celerystalker]

If you like Swords and Serpents, check out Dungeon Magic on NES as well. It's from Natsume and Taito, and uses battery save.

[Edmond Dantes]

I used to own Dungeon Magic.... I wish I still did because it was rather unique somehow....

You know what really screws me up about Dungeon Magic though? That there's an arcade game of the same name, also by Taito. Its apparently related story-wise somehow (you're fighting the same evil wizard in either case). So it seems like there was an attempt to franchise it.

Some neat info about Swords and Serpents here:
http://allconsolerpgs.blogspot.com/2013/09/game-19-swords-and-serpents-nes-and.html

The password thing makes me think that if I ever attempt it, I basically will have to keep the NES on until I beat it, or else record my gameplay with my DVD Recorder so I can jot down the passwords. Is it safe to leave an NES running while you sleep though?

[Wraith Storm]

I really enjoyed the new-ish Grimlock games on steam.

The Legend of Grimrock games are fantastic. I bought them both on GoG and have played through quite a bit of the first game. They did a fantastic job of taking the best elements of the genre and eliminating the worst when making the first game. I haven't booted up the sequel yet, but from what I understand it's a rare sequel that builds and expands upon the first title and is basically a better game in every way. The first Grimrock is so good I can't wait to try the second!

Grimrock 1 is hard as nails, but fair. It has excellent level design and clever puzzles. Its character leveling system is also very well thought out. Its been a very VERY long time since gaining a single level and putting a few skill points into a tree have weighed this heavily on me.

[celerystalker]

Oh, yes, arcade Dungeon Magic/Lightbringer rules. I was so happy when they included that on Taito Memories and Taito Legends 2. Freaking awesome game.

[bb_hood]

Makes you feel any better I was recently playing through DQ1 in Japanese.

Thank you. Why did you choose to play the Japanese version?

[Daria]

Thank you. Why did you choose to play the Japanese version?

I needed footage for a video. I wanted to show the Japanese release since it looks slightly different.

[Edmond Dantes]

and by "Slightly Different" Daria means "looks like it was designed for the Commodore 64, and Roto's descendant clearly enjoys the buffet table more than Erdrick's, and absolutely nobody is able to face any direction other than south" (you actually have to specify a direction when you use a command like "talk" or try to open a door). Oh, and it uses passwords instead of a save battery. So I guess Swords and Serpents no longer has to feel bad about that.

One of these days I would love to do a video about the awesomeness of RPGs during the NES era. The problem is getting footage, since RPGs were never usually meant to be beaten quickly. In my case I'm slightly afraid of wasting DVD-Rs. There is one game--Legend of the Ghost Lion--that I might go ahead and record myself, though. That is truly an underappreciated gem.

....... buuuuut now we're not talking about first-person dungeon crawlers. I don't really mind, since I love 8-Bit RPGs, but I really want to crawl dungeons.

I actually bought Legend of Grimrock on GOG (I soooo keep wanting to say "me Grimrock not kisser, me Grimrock king!") but the only comp I have that might run it is this laptop. And I hate gaming on a laptop. But at least I have it for when the day comes...

[Daria]

and by "Slightly Different" Daria means "looks like it was designed for the Commodore 64, and Roto's descendant clearly enjoys the buffet table more than Erdrick's, and absolutely nobody is able to face any direction other than south" (you actually have to specify a direction when you use a command like "talk" or try to open a door). Oh, and it uses passwords instead of a save battery. So I guess Swords and Serpents no longer has to feel bad about that.

One of these days I would love to do a video about the awesomeness of RPGs during the NES era. The problem is getting footage, since RPGs were never usually meant to be beaten quickly. In my case I'm slightly afraid of wasting DVD-Rs. There is one game--Legend of the Ghost Lion--that I might go ahead and record myself, though. That is truly an underappreciated gem.

....... buuuuut now we're not talking about first-person dungeon crawlers. I don't really mind, since I love 8-Bit RPGs, but I really want to crawl dungeons.

I actually bought Legend of Grimrock on GOG (I soooo keep wanting to say "me Grimrock not kisser, me Grimrock king!") but the only comp I have that might run it is this laptop. And I hate gaming on a laptop. But at least I have it for when the day comes...

Heh. I was working on a Ghost Lion video not too long ago but my footage was garbage so I put it on the back burner. Love that game.

Swords and Serpents was a game I had growing up. It's a lite-dungeon crawler, but enjoyable (and not all that long). The "zoom tube" warps get a bit aggravating at times. But it's no Wizardry.

[Gamevet]

Enemy Zero


I think that's the name of the one I am thinking of I remember it being on Saturn and PC atleast and it was sort of more Sci-Fi but still a 1st person crawler

Yeah, that game will put you on the edge of your seat.

The game experience is like the tracker scene in Aliens, where the space marines see the images on the unit and the thumping increases as the enemies get closer and closer. The catch is, though, that you cannot see the enemies when they are in front of you. You have to know where they are by using the tracker, and the only way that they will become visible, is when your gunfire makes contact with them.

[celerystalker]

Yeah, that game will put you on the edge of your seat.

The game experience is like the tracker scene in Aliens, where the space marines see the images on the unit and the thumping increases as the enemies get closer and closer. The catch is, though, that you cannot see the enemies when they are in front of you. You have to know where they are by using the tracker, and the only way that they will become visible, is when your gunfire makes contact with them.

Enemy Zero is probably my favorite Saturn game. I never though about it as a dungeon crawler, but I can see that impression. So good, and like Gamevet said, it really is tremendous at keeping you on edge. Some people can't get past its slow pace, but I freaking love the game.

[Ze_ro]

Wasn't CSB also on the Amiga? I could swear that it had an Amiga-only intro animation even...
Huh! You are correct, sir! In fact, I have it installed on my Amiga 3000 now that I think of it... I think it's the fact that there was never a *DOS* port that always got my goat, and I just got mixed up.


Apparently the Sega CD edition has different music. There's also a Saturn-exclusive game in the series that is totally "I must have that" levels.
I actually have the Saturn version, but I have yet to actually try it out for some reason... it has 3D enemies which look decent, but otherwise looks pretty faithful to the original.

I also have the TG-16 Dungeon Master: Theron's Quest... it's a rather odd duck. It looks just like the original DM, but the levels are done totally differently. Instead of one big dungeon, it's split into several dungeons and your stats are reset each time you finish one of them. No idea why they did that.

--Zero

[Edmond Dantes]

Yeah, I never thought of Enemy Zero as a dungeon crawler either... it seems like its more like D or possibly Myst but with first-person-shooter elements. It's definitely not an RPG in any sense.

re Dungeon Master -- Theron's Quest really does sound just weird, though I would play it if I could find an inexpensive copy, as I have a Duo that needs loving.

Right now I'm playing Dungeon Master via CSBwin, which is a fan-made port of DM and CSB which apparently the author made by reverse-engineering the executable/data/whatever from the original Atari ST version, so its probably the most "accurate to the original" experience you can get short of emulation. The MS-DOS port of Dungeon Master seems to basically never appear on ebay or I would play that instead, and this thing is my only option for CSB in any case.

Another fan-made conversion I've messed with is called Return to Chaos. That one apparently is not 100% true to the original but it still has some nice features, not the least of which is you can make custom dungeons for it (you can do that for CSBwin too using something called CSbuild, and I'm not sure which is better), but as my interest is in just playing the games I would rather have "as close to the original as I can get."

Wondering if I should try the SNES version or if it has any censorship like some other PC-to-SNES ports do.

Also, the magic system... am I the only person who, when they're confronted with a magic system where you cast spells by combining runes, tries every available combination to see if they do something?

[Tanooki]

I've never been much of a fan, but there were two I enjoyed, kind of wish I kept both but well --time+life = sold

DS(and mobile) Orcs & Elves (by John Carmack of DOOM etc)
SNES Arcana (by HAL known obviously for Kirby/Smash Bros etc)

Top one is more rogue like, every motion is a 'move' the other is more JRPG style but first person.

[Daria]

Also, the magic system... am I the only person who, when they're confronted with a magic system where you cast spells by combining runes, tries every available combination to see if they do something?

Oh. You're not alone.

[Atarileaf]

How about an original I played as a kid - Dungeons of Daggorath for the Tandy Color Computer. It was a real special game back in the 80's AND is featured in the novel Ready Player One. I hope it makes it into the movie as it's a special game.

[Edmond Dantes]

Also, Dungeon Master is seriously making me wanna boot up Eye of the Beholder again.

To the guy above me... the name "Dungeons of Daggorath" sounds familiar, but the Tandy What What WHAT now?

EDIT: I just looked up Dungeons of Daggorath.... hmmm... it appears to have had an Apple IIe version (I happen to have an emulator for that since one came with the King's Quest Collection Series) and the graphics remind me of Akalabeth: World of Doom (the "first" game in the Ultima series, which for awhile--and maybe still?--you could get as a freebie on GOG). I always enjoyed Akalabeth's simplicity. In fact there's a weird joy to primitive, uncomplicated RPGs.

Speaking of which... this next one I'm about to name isn't first-person, but IS a dungeon crawler.... there's an all-ASCII textmode game called DND (obvious inspiration is obvious) which was later renamed Dungeons of the Necromancer's Domain. If you've ever played Telengard, its basically DND but given graphics, but limited to just one of the five selectable dungeons. Like Akalabeth, its got this charming simplicity to it that makes it approachable, especially if you don't really wanna do serious, heavy gaming but just wanna kill some monsters. This game was never owned by a company, just a private programmer, so you can probably find it floating on the interwebs legally. There used to be a site that archived all the different versions....

(and with a title like Akalabeth one wonders why Richard Garriott never published a game called Valaquenta or Narn I Chin Hurin.... I guess he didn't want his inspirations to be too obvious?)

[calthaer]

I have Swords & Serpents, I think. It's not on my Backloggery.com account, though...wonder if I got rid of it. I had it because I picked up a Four-Score at one point and that was one of the few games that used it. Sounded cool but I just never played it.

Here's a question: how long are these games? Grimrock looks cool but I have to admit, I'm not necessarily looking for games that last 40+ hours. Ten hours is the ideal length for a game for me, these days. I have just loved games like Costume Quest and the Shadowrun Returns series of games that offer a content-full experience within that timeframe. Not a huge ton of grinding and repetitive content - these games stay fresh. I find grinding ridiculously boring these days, and the games we're throwing out here sound pretty grindy.

[Edmond Dantes]

I can't imagine games with no overworld which take place entirely inside a single dungeon having a playtime longer than ten hours. That said I've never played Grimrock, or any other dinobot for that matter.

Lately I've been hitting Dungeon Master a lot, but there's a few things I don't care for. One is that it uses a "you use skills to level up" system, which seems pointless in a game taking place entirely in a dungeon and seems like it'll eventually force me to take time out just to grind up my characters (while at the same time having a pretty strict hunger/thirst-tracking mechanic that forces you to keep moving). The other is the rune magic system and my afformentioned OCD with wanting to test every combo to see if they do anything.

Admittedly those are probably just personal hangups on my part rather than really problems with the game.