World Video Game Hall of Fame announced its 2nd class of Inductees

[7th lutz]

http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/5/11596972/2016-world-video-game-hall-of-fame

The 2nd Class of Inductees are the following:
Grand Theft Auto 3
The Legend of Zelda
The Oregon Trail
The Sims
Sonic the Hedgehog
Space Invaders


Here are the Finalists that weren't inducted:
Elite
Final Fantasy
John Madden Football
Minecraft
Nurburgring
Pokemon Red and Green
Side Meier's Civilization
Street Fighter 2
Tomb Raider

[7th lutz]

Grand Theft Auto 3 being one of the 6 Inductees was a mistake to be inducted this early in the Video Game Hall of Fame's existence. That game got in too early at a time when a couple of the games I nominated didn't even became a finalist such as Donkey Kong and Adventure.

Final Fantasy or Street Fighter 2 in my view would of have been more worthy than Grand Theft Auto 3 for being inducted into the 2nd class instead of being a finalist.

I have no problem with Sonic 1 being inducted at all due to its importance of giving the Sega Genesis the console sales it had. Space Invaders is a game that I thought it should've been in its first class because of its importance in the arcades and for the Atari 2600. I have no problem with Oregon Trail because I think every grade school that had a computer room in the 1980's and at least in the early 1990's had this game.

The World Video Game Hall of Fame does allow anyone to Nominate. Here is the link for Nominating games: http://www.worldvideogamehalloffame.org/nominate

[bb_hood]

Grand Theft Auto 3 being one of the 6 Inductees was a mistake to be inducted this early in the Video Game Hall of Fame's existence. That game got in too early at a time when a couple of the games I nominated didn't even became a finalist such as Donkey Kong and Adventure.

Final Fantasy or Street Fighter 2 in my view would of have been more worthy than Grand Theft Auto 3 for being inducted into the 2nd class instead of being a finalist. The best way to put it is I Nominated games for the 2016 class that weren't finalists, but



Yeah, I read your first post and thats exactly what I thought. GTA3 doesnt deserve to get in over Final Fantasy or SF2. Both of FF and SF2 were much more influential and original games. Grand Theft Auto was a good game yes, but it was really just super popular because you could jack peoples' cars and gun down cops and pedestrians.

[Aussie2B]

Final Fantasy, Pokemon, and Street Fighter 2 would've been better choices than GTA3, The Oregon Trail, and The Sims, in my opinion. I don't know much about this Hall of Fame, though, so if it's about how iconic/well-known these franchises are and about sales figures, maybe their choices are a better fit. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if they're trying to balance out Japanese versus Western inductees. But, anyway, in my wholly subjective opinion, the GTA games are just violent dreck, The Oregon Trail is funny and memorable as a shared cultural experience but not really something you WANT to play, just something to reminisce about and associate with childhood nostalgia, and The Sims, as the article says, is more of a virtual dollhouse than an actual game and has zero appeal to me personally.

[Koa Zo]

I'd like to know what the provenance is for that Link shield the Strong Museum is showing with the Zelda memorabilia.

Unfortunately the Strong is spreading Nintendo bias misinformation by stating that "The United States release of The Legend of Zelda was also the first console game to include an internal battery for backing up saved data."

As we should all know, the first game cartridge with battery back up was Pop & Chips for the Super Cassette Vision.

edit: I tracked down a contact email for the PR people and they forwarded it to their historians. They were thankful for the notice of the error and are revising the press release to correct the misinformation about Zelda and battery back up.

[celerystalker]

I have to admit, I truly don't understand the purpose of this sort of thing. I mean, I love games, and they're an important part of my life as my primary hobby. Having a hall of fame for games feels like just some way to create some kind of bigger top ten list. Maybe it's just meant to call attention to the hobby, but I have trouble imagining an outsider getting interested due to its existence.

I feel like I'm missing something.

[Koa Zo]

I feel like I'm missing something.
It's just a marketing gimmick for the Strong Museum of Play.

Here's the main page for their Hall of Fame (http://www.museumofplay.org/about/world-video-game-hall-fame)

[celerystalker]

It's just a marketing gimmick for the Strong Museum of Play.

Here's the main page for their Hall of Fame (http://www.museumofplay.org/about/world-video-game-hall-fame)

Ah. Makes sense. Even their own criteria is dumb, then. "Geographical Reach" for Oregon Trail? Yeah...

[Porksta]

Is it bad that I have never heard of the games Elite or Nurburgring?

[Aussie2B]

Is it bad that I have never heard of the games Elite or Nurburgring?

Same. Well, "Elite" is such a generic title that I wouldn't be surprised if I've heard of it before, but it's not like "oh yeah, I know that game". I wonder if these are games that were more popular in Europe than the US.

[celerystalker]

Nurburgring is better known in the US as Night Driver. I think they just wanted to sound cool using the euro name. Elite is a british PC game centered around trade economics in space. Somehow both are more relevant than, oh, Dragon Quest, Ultima, Dragon Slayer, OutRun, Virtua Fighter, SimCity, Donkey Kong...

Edit: After double checking myself, Night Driver is a spiritual successor to Nurburgring that used a similar cabinet design.

[bb_hood]

I have to admit, I truly don't understand the purpose of this sort of thing. I mean, I love games, and they're an important part of my life as my primary hobby. Having a hall of fame for games feels like just some way to create some kind of bigger top ten list. Maybe it's just meant to call attention to the hobby, but I have trouble imagining an outsider getting interested due to its existence.

I feel like I'm missing something.

I agree its kinda dumb. Everyone has to put out some kind of poll to try and sound like experts. Like we really need some kinda poll to tell us that Zelda is and was popular.



Is it bad that I have never heard of the games Elite or Nurburgring?
I have simply heard of Elite, but never played either.

Oregon Trail was pretty huge though.

[badinsults]

I have to admit, I truly don't understand the purpose of this sort of thing. I mean, I love games, and they're an important part of my life as my primary hobby. Having a hall of fame for games feels like just some way to create some kind of bigger top ten list. Maybe it's just meant to call attention to the hobby, but I have trouble imagining an outsider getting interested due to its existence.

I feel like I'm missing something.

Why have a Rock N Roll Hall of Fame? Why have a Baseball Hall of Fame? You could argue that music and baseball are just "hobbies", but I would argue that they (and video games) are part of our culture, and are parts of what makes humanity more than just a bunch of soulless robots.

The Strong Museum is a Museum, and probably the biggest video game museum in the world. It is entirely appropriate that they select a bunch of games they feel were particularly deserving of recognition as being influential on the medium as a whole. As for those who are saying that something like Final Fantasy should have gone in before GTA III - I think that GTA III was probably the first fully immersive 3D world exploration game, while Final Fantasy was pretty much an incremental upgrade of stuff like Ultima and Dragon Quest. I think it is entirely appropriate to include in a hall of fame, even if it is only the second selection of titles.

[Koa Zo]

Why have a Rock N Roll Hall of Fame? Why have a Baseball Hall of Fame? You could argue that music and baseball are just "hobbies", but I would argue that they (and video games) are part of our culture, and are parts of what makes humanity more than just a bunch of soulless robots.



Music and professional sports are consumer products, just like videogames. Industrial consumption is what makes our humanity - best to be able to market it to keep the system going - hence "Hall of Fames"

[celerystalker]

Why have a Rock N Roll Hall of Fame? Why have a Baseball Hall of Fame? You could argue that music and baseball are just "hobbies", but I would argue that they (and video games) are part of our culture, and are parts of what makes humanity more than just a bunch of soulless robots.

The Strong Museum is a Museum, and probably the biggest video game museum in the world. It is entirely appropriate that they select a bunch of games they feel were particularly deserving of recognition as being influential on the medium as a whole. As for those who are saying that something like Final Fantasy should have gone in before GTA III - I think that GTA III was probably the first fully immersive 3D world exploration game, while Final Fantasy was pretty much an incremental upgrade of stuff like Ultima and Dragon Quest. I think it is entirely appropriate to include in a hall of fame, even if it is only the second selection of titles.

The difference I see is that the rock and roll and baseball halls of fame celebrate the achievements and history of athletes and artists, not individual pieces of their work. Honoring a creator like a Miyamoto or Kojima, or a composer like Yuzo Koshiro or Hip Tanaka is more analogous, but this is like having a Rock & Roll Hall of fame for individual songs or albums.

[Aussie2B]

It'd be great to have a hall of fame for game creators, but I think the public would stop caring real fast. Even diehard game fans are often ignorant of the people behind the games they love. After you induct the widely known people like Miyamoto and Kojima, then what? Gamers will probably be scratching their heads wondering who the heck the inductees are after the first dozen or so. Most gamers probably have no idea who Yuzo Koshiro and Hip Tanaka are.

[badinsults]

It'd be great to have a hall of fame for game creators, but I think the public would stop caring real fast. Even diehard game fans are often ignorant of the people behind the games they love. After you induct the widely known people like Miyamoto and Kojima, then what? Gamers will probably be scratching their heads wondering who the heck the inductees are after the first dozen or so. Most gamers probably have no idea who Yuzo Koshiro and Hip Tanaka are.

I think this is very much the point. It is pretty rare for a video game to be developed from the ground up by an individual or even a small group of individuals (like a band). Hell, even with the baseball analogy, many players are great, but the best teams are the ones that win the championships. There is room for both individual and group achievements in the art of video games, just like it is in movies. But when it comes down to it, there are extremely few big names that can be definitely pointed out as being responsible for the success of a large number of video games.

[celerystalker]

Honestly, I don't think games need a hall of fame. It's not a good institutional fit in my opinion, but if people enjoy it, that's just fine. I just don't understand is all, and maybe that's on me... I always considered these halls to be an honor of the achievements of individuals or groups, but marketing ploys are probably more realistic.

[Mayhem]

Elite is a british PC game centered around trade economics in space. Somehow both are more relevant than, oh, Dragon Quest, Ultima, Dragon Slayer, OutRun, Virtua Fighter, SimCity, Donkey Kong...
Elite was effectively the first "sandbox" game. You know, the basis of an awful lot of games today, and the inspiration in part for GTA. You could choose to do what you wanted; you could trade goods, fight pirates, smuggle illegal stuff, take on the police, and then if you became good enough, you'd unlock some secret missions to take part in. The original was released in 1984 for the BBC Micro, a machine that took an awful lot of memory up with some of its video modes, and yet Braben and Bell shoved this game into 32k of memory. ANYONE of my era in Europe knows Elite.

Comments like this are why European retrogamers shake their heads at the utter console-centricness of US "history" of that era... like the computers never existed.

[celerystalker]

Elite was effectively the first "sandbox" game. You know, the basis of an awful lot of games today, and the inspiration in part for GTA. You could choose to do what you wanted; you could trade goods, fight pirates, smuggle illegal stuff, take on the police, and then if you became good enough, you'd unlock some secret missions to take part in. The original was released in 1984 for the BBC Micro, a machine that took an awful lot of memory up with some of its video modes, and yet Braben and Bell shoved this game into 32k of memory. ANYONE of my era in Europe knows Elite.

Comments like this are why European retrogamers shake their heads at the utter console-centricness of US "history" of that era... like the computers never existed.

Everyone in Japan knows Dragon Slayer, a PC game, as is Ultima, and SimCity for that matter... literally half of the games I listed. I'm not judging games on a personal bias. I am criticizing the choices based on the criteria listed on the Strong website. A lot of games innovated in a lot of ways, but international geographical appeal is one of their major categories, and a game like Ultima both innovated and had more international influence. My comment wasn't disparaging the quality of Elite, but was in the greater context of the early part of the thread questioning some of the choices for such an early class of inductees, not grasping at some console or even US-centered game history.

[Aussie2B]

Comments like this are why European retrogamers shake their heads at the utter console-centricness of US "history" of that era... like the computers never existed.

I don't think that's very fair. US gamers are no more biased or living in a bubble than gamers from any other region in the world. American gamers could just as well shake their head at European gamers for not being very familiar with other highly regarded, influential games. I mean, The Oregon Trail was just inducted. Would the average European gamer have any familiarity with that? Generally speaking, gamers know what is made available to them and what's popular in their region. The BBC Micro is a British computer, and while it was sold in the US, it was not remotely the success here as it was in Europe. Americans weren't adverse to computer gaming in the 80s, it just wasn't nearly as popular as it was in Europe. Part of that is the cost and know-how involved in computer gaming versus picking up a console, and another part is the huge popularity of the 2600 and the NES in the US. But we have our well-known PC games from that era. Again, there's The Oregon Trail. It was developed in the 70s, and starting by the mid-80s, it was in schools everywhere. Outside of educational games, there's Ultima, Wizardry, King's Quest, etc. Plenty of computer games were popular in the US in the 80s, even if they were lesser successes than, say, Mario and more for "hardcore" gamers.

But yeah, ask a Western gamer, American or European, about, say, Tengai Makyou and they'll probably just reply with "Huh? What's that?" even though Tengai Makyou II is one of the most popular, highly regarded RPGs in Japanese gaming history. Heck, ask about the PC Engine in general. Among Japanese, American, and European gamers, Europeans would surely be the most ignorant of it. And as far as I'm concerned, that's just fine. As long as gamers aren't spreading misinformation, it's okay to not be knowledgeable about everything. It's not necessarily a result of closed-mindedness, as in a refusal to learn or try out unfamiliar games. We all have limited time and energy to invest in what is just a hobby, and it's not unreasonable to want to spend it on games you already love or games that have already caught your interest. And those are largely determined by the availability and popularity of a game in your region.

[7th lutz]

Why have a Rock N Roll Hall of Fame? Why have a Baseball Hall of Fame? You could argue that music and baseball are just "hobbies", but I would argue that they (and video games) are part of our culture, and are parts of what makes humanity more than just a bunch of soulless robots.

The Strong Museum is a Museum, and probably the biggest video game museum in the world. It is entirely appropriate that they select a bunch of games they feel were particularly deserving of recognition as being influential on the medium as a whole. As for those who are saying that something like Final Fantasy should have gone in before GTA III - I think that GTA III was probably the first fully immersive 3D world exploration game, while Final Fantasy was pretty much an incremental upgrade of stuff like Ultima and Dragon Quest. I think it is entirely appropriate to include in a hall of fame, even if it is only the second selection of titles.
My problem with Grand Theft Auto for me is the age of the game although the game was released in 2001. Computer, arcade, and handheld games exist before the 21st century and I don't think games from the 21st century should get in yet based on how young their video game museum is.

I honestly think the Strong Museum needs a certain amount of years waiting period criteria after a game release. My reasoning is Last year Angry Birds was a finalist and almost got inducted in its first class and World of Warcraft got inducted last year. My problem with World of Warcraft is a couple things including the age. The 2nd thing is despite the fact I never been much pc gamer, World of Warcraft wasn't the first game of its type since Everquest and Ultima Online were released years prior.

I have no problem in terms of the history of Ultima for Western RPGS and if a person nominates the original Ultima. I view Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy different than Ultima because the First Ultima wasn't a game console RPG and wasn't a JRPG either. I view Dragon Quest for the Hall of Fame because I look at things from a person who grew up in a home without a computer before getting one during my high school year, but owned game consoles. Dragon Quest made JRPG popular on games and it influenced game developers to develop that style of a RPG on game Consoles.

As far as Final Fantasy goes, I view it a very important game for a reason. The fact is Square was on the verge of folding and they expected Final Fantasy was going to be their last game ever. Final Fantasy 7 was known as the game that sold the Playstation and that wouldn't have happen if Square folded. Square also had other well know games that are on greatest games of time lists that wouldn't have been made if the Original Fantasy was a flop like Chrono Trigger as an example.

[Mayhem]

Just to note that Elite was converted to the Spectrum, C64, Amiga, ST, PC, Apple II, MSX and even NES (although I think that was PAL only), so it wasn't confined to the Beeb. But point taken, however its influence took a while to filter into a greater number of titles mainly because the technology wasn't there to fully realise them. Elite -> Mercenary -> Damocles -> Grand Theft Auto. That took ten years or so.

Oh, and I know The Oregon Trail, but that's due to the internet in the 90s, and then playing it on an Apple II. Whereas Elite was out on systems in the US (see above), the Apple II never got a look in here with the Speccy and C64 dominating the field. So I'd expect a great number of people here to be unaware of it, or perhaps only aware of it due to various pop culture and internet meme references.

[bb_hood]

As far as Final Fantasy goes, I view it a very important game for a reason. The fact is Square was on the verge of folding and they expected Final Fantasy was going to be their last game ever. Final Fantasy 7 was known as the game that sold the Playstation and that wouldn't have happen if Square folded. Square also had other well know games that are on greatest games of time lists that wouldn't have been made if the Original Fantasy was a flop like Chrono Trigger as an example.

Yes, I think this is so true. Final Fantasy was expected to be their last game thus it was named 'Final' Fantasy. So many excellent games wouldnt have been made if they had folded. Final Fantasy 7 was huge also. So many people bought playstations because of FF7.




Oh, and I know The Oregon Trail, but that's due to the internet in the 90s, and then playing it on an Apple II. Whereas Elite was out on systems in the US (see above), the Apple II never got a look in here with the Speccy and C64 dominating the field. So I'd expect a great number of people here to be unaware of it, or perhaps only aware of it due to various pop culture and internet meme references.

I can understand people outside the US not knowing the Oregon Trail, but in the good old USA this game was all over the place. If your classroom had a computer or if your high school had a computer lab, your school had Oregon Trail. I dont see how you could have even gone through public school in the 90s and not been exposed to the Oregon Trail. I remember first playing it in grade school. Later on in High School we would be in computer lab with some stupid assignment, and groups of us who knew how would just boot up oregon trail instead. There were other games like sleuth and carmen sandiego but oregon trail was just super fun and way better.

[celerystalker]

Just to note that Elite was converted to the Spectrum, C64, Amiga, ST, PC, Apple II, MSX and even NES (although I think that was PAL only), so it wasn't confined to the Beeb. But point taken, however its influence took a while to filter into a greater number of titles mainly because the technology wasn't there to fully realise them. Elite -> Mercenary -> Damocles -> Grand Theft Auto. That took ten years or so.

Oh, and I know The Oregon Trail, but that's due to the internet in the 90s, and then playing it on an Apple II. Whereas Elite was out on systems in the US (see above), the Apple II never got a look in here with the Speccy and C64 dominating the field. So I'd expect a great number of people here to be unaware of it, or perhaps only aware of it due to various pop culture and internet meme references.

If you read the other posts, I was critical of the Oregon Trail choice for the same reason, it was too US centric.

[Mayhem]

I can understand people outside the US not knowing the Oregon Trail, but in the good old USA this game was all over the place. If your classroom had a computer or if your high school had a computer lab, your school had Oregon Trail. I dont see how you could have even gone through public school in the 90s and not been exposed to the Oregon Trail. I remember first playing it in grade school. Later on in High School we would be in computer lab with some stupid assignment, and groups of us who knew how would just boot up oregon trail instead. There were other games like sleuth and carmen sandiego but oregon trail was just super fun and way better.
And in a similar way during the 80s here in the UK, pretty much every school (with a reasonable budget) had a bank of BBC Micro computers, and thus people traded BBC games on disk to play. So everyone in my year and beyond had Zalaga, Stryker's Run, Frak, Clogger, Repton, Elite, Firetrack and more to play during computer lessons if they could get away with it heh.

[tom]

Elite, on Apple ][ was number 1 in the USA computer gaming charts (I think you can check it out in CGW), so it should be quite known.

Dragonslayer on Epoch was also a pre-Zelda battery cartridge game.

[tom]

Comments like this are why European retrogamers shake their heads at the utter console-centricness of US "history" of that era... like the computers never existed.

Well that's not true

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/CGW100.jpg


US just had the better games.


But that's just it, UKers never had the experience of a FDD, and only a few 'converted to tape' US games made in the UKs shores (LCP on tape, sheer horror). In the UK gamers missed out on a huge quantity of US games because they didn't own a floppy drive.

[tom]

I once talked to Darren from UKs Retro Gamer magazine about famous US computer game programmers. He didn't know any I mentioned. You know, famous people like Gary Grigsby, Chuck Kroegel, Roger Keating, Jon Freeman, Bill Budge......

[Mayhem]

Well I know Kroegel, Freeman and Budge... had to look the other two up, and I am willing to bet most people won't know who they are either given they were both involved in strategy titles.

Besides my comment wasn't about 1983, at the time... it's about the fact once Nintendo took hold from about 1987 onwards, everything you seem to read about US videogame history is either arcade or console related in TODAY'S media looking back.

[Koa Zo]

Dragonslayer on Epoch was also a pre-Zelda battery cartridge game.
I've read that elsewhere, but I've never found detailed release dates for SCV games.
Pop & Chips was out sometime in 1985
Super Basic Programming came out before Dragonslayer; both sometime in 1986, but were they both released before the February release of The Legend of Zelda?