retroUSB AVS or NES Classic Edition?

[spunky_d_99]

Okay, I'll try to keep this as concise as possible. I am one of the many would-be consumers that got burned by this whole fiasco with the release of the NES Classic Edition on 11/11/16. Over the weekend, I started considering the possiblity of getting a retroUSB AVS as a way of getting around (1) Nintendo's supply-and-demand game they love to play and (2) the eBay resellers preying on people's desire to enjoying some old games.

Granted, the AVS would cost me an additional $125 than the NES Classic Edition, but I would at least have the freedom to play other games of my choosing instead of being locked down to 30 games. I have around 50 NES games in my collection so far, and I'm sure they'd look great in HD with the AVS. But there's only one glaring problem...with the exception of Super Mario Bros. & Tecmo Bowl, I have none of the games that are on the NES Classic Edition.

And that's where having Classic Edition would make sense for me. We've all done the math and can easily see that 30 NES games for $60 is a no-brainer. There's just no way I could find the original carts of each game for that price. Not to mention, I would love to play them with wife and friends. So from that standpoint, it feels like purchasing the AVS just wouldn't be a financially smart decision. I mean, as much as I'm not thrilled with Nintendo's business practice of withholding quantities for the sake of hype-building, I don't want to make a brash decision that would ultimately cost me more in the long run just to say that I "stuck it to them". And let's be real, Nintendo will live on with or without my cash.

What do you think? Should I go for the AVS now, or just wait it out and see if the NES Classic Edition become available for it's intended price in the weeks to come?

[PizzaKat]

Wait it out. There should be an evntual restock in December

[Niku-Sama]

I saw the avs in action at PRGE last month in action and it is pretty cool. Remember you can do famicom and disk system games on the AVS. I feel like $180ish bucks is a bit steep though.

[Gameguy]

We've all done the math and can easily see that 30 NES games for $60 is a no-brainer.
I sure have done the math.

http://www.americasmartshop.com/tvgame.html

[Tanooki]

While it's not a strict set of parts reading the game itself and running right from it, you'd be better off with a Retron5 (keep in mind the Classic NES is emulation too) unless you really must have that scoreboard asset to e-peen measure yourself against others for the highest scores. It costs less, supports 10 systems, that is if you want to buy all your cartridges and use them.

I can't recommend the AVS unless you want that competitive edge. Sure it runs the games vanilla and accurately without an android middleman, but you're also digging yourself a big expense unless you intend to snap up some everdrives to run ROMs. I'm not sure what all the games on the Classic NES add up to, but if you figure maybe a $10-15 average you're looking at $300-450 for the games + a console (AVS, Retron 5, or original.)

I think that system Nintendo put up one way or the other is justifiable to own because of the convenience factor, small size, ease of use and transport, and you don't have to drop hundreds to get the games.

[Bratwurst]

I sure have done the math.

You have gotten rather sassy as of late. I approve.

[Aussie2B]

The NES Classic Edition is nice if you want to play all those games on it without hunting down the actual carts. In lieu of that, I personally would just go with a real NES running on a CRT. It's not worth spending a bunch more on an unofficial piece of hardware that's still going to have issues like input lag and looking bad because the games won't be running in their native resolution nor on the kind of screen they were designed for. If you're gonna get something that's less than ideal, it should be cheap, and I'm sure the NES Classic will eventually be easier to come by at its MSRP.

[PreZZ]

I really wanted the nes classic edition, but the cord lenghts and no home button is a deal breaker. You can get a Ouya for a lot cheaper, than buy nostalgia for 1$ on the store, and you will also get all the other systems like ps1, turbo, sega, etc. Even if nes classic is an official product, its still just emulation... Nintendo should have put a 2gb storage in it and wi fi chip, and a virtual console store, they would have made millions more. And so what if it got hacked, its not like you cant play nintendo games on every possible platform today (android, ios , windows , linux, mac, etc.) so the games they would sell on the store would be revenue that they will never see from people who would buy the games legally.

[BlastProcessing402]

It's a fun little idea, but I think I'd rather put the $60 towards the cost of an Everdrive and not limit things to 30 games. And of course it's in short supply, Nintendo's been pulling that trick since the days of "chip shortages" keeping certain NES games in high demand, keeping Wii systems in short supply (and therefore a hot item) over 2 years after it was released, and of course the Amiibos.

AVS would be cool to have, but composite on a CRT is fine for me, it's how I've always played Nintendo.

Just my opinions, if yours differ, that's cool.

[kainemaxwell]

I really wanted the nes classic edition, but the cord lenghts and no home button is a deal breaker. You can get a Ouya for a lot cheaper, than buy nostalgia for 1$ on the store, and you will also get all the other systems like ps1, turbo, sega, etc. Even if nes classic is an official product, its still just emulation... Nintendo should have put a 2gb storage in it and wi fi chip, and a virtual console store, they would have made millions more. And so what if it got hacked, its not like you cant play nintendo games on every possible platform today (android, ios , windows , linux, mac, etc.) so the games they would sell on the store would be revenue that they will never see from people who would buy the games legally.

I wish I had gone the Ouya route. People still got theirs?

[FieryReign]

Fuck both of these useless things. GPD XD

[YoshiM]

I wish I had gone the Ouya route. People still got theirs?

I still do. In fact last weekend I actually had time to compare emulators between a soft-modded Wii and an Ouya.

[PreZZ]

Still hooked up since 2013!! It is hands down the best for emulation IF you use a ps3 controller. Better than modded xbox and wii at least

[Guntz]

Fuck both of these useless things. GPD XD

Fuck all of them. Original hardware with SD CRT and everdrive.

[Bratwurst]

Fuck all of them. Original hardware with SD CRT and everdrive.

There really is no comparison, I'm gonna be unhappy when my last CRT dies. Or maybe I'll be expire before then. Life goals!

[FieryReign]

Fuck all of them. Original hardware with SD CRT and everdrive.
Fuck this dumb advice. This is only if you want clutter and an empty bank account. You can't fit multiple systems/portables and all their games in your pocket with a big heavyass CRT that will need maintenance. GPD XD

[Tanooki]

Going to agree maintaining a CRT now is kind of dumb. Poor display large and heavy. Don't agree so much dumping original hardware especially if using everdrives. Though stuff like the R5 or side loaded ouya or any good android high end tablet/micro console gets it done well too.

[Graham Mitchell]

Going to agree maintaining a CRT now is kind of dumb. Poor display large and heavy. Don't agree so much dumping original hardware especially if using everdrives. Though stuff like the R5 or side loaded ouya or any good android high end tablet/micro console gets it done well too.

Well, an RGB monitor like a Sony PVM or Mitsubishi MegaView is totally worth the trouble. There are a lot of systems that have RGB stock (not the NES unfortunately) and they look AMAZING. Plus your light guns will work.

Now with regards to the NES classic edition...it's cheap and convenient, but while the games on there are great, they're low-hanging fruit (common as dirt) and merely scratch the surface of the the NES has to offer. I honestly don't see the point of it. To me, the main feature that's even mildly appealing is the save states.

Save your money. Get a clone console (AVS/Retron 5, whatever) and invest in an Everdrive. It's more costly but you will get exponentially more for your investment than you would for an NES classic edition.

[Aussie2B]

Having a CRT doesn't mean you have to have a huge CRT. A small CRT isn't that heavy nor does it take up tons of space. Considering the size of most people's HDTVs these days, a small SDTV is nothing. But, hey, if having a CRT around is worse to you than input lag, ugly graphics, and not being able to play a portion of the library, more power to you. Personally, I like my character to jump when I actually press the jump button.

[Graham Mitchell]

Having a CRT doesn't mean you have to have a huge CRT. A small CRT isn't that heavy nor does it take up tons of space. Considering the size of most people's HDTVs these days, a small SDTV is nothing. But, hey, if having a CRT around is worse to you than input lag, ugly graphics, and not being able to play a portion of the library, more power to you. Personally, I like my character to jump when I actually press the jump button.

^
This.

To get decent visual quality on an HDTV you need to have your systems modded and use a $3-500 upscaler. And even then they freak out with a 15khz signal.

No rhythm games from ps2 or earlier are playable on an HDTV due to lag. No parappa!

[Tanooki]

^No you don't, but it is completely tv dependent on it. My current 2 similar sized TVs I have here, both LEDs display the stuff either sharp or soft, but not RCA blurry soft with ghosting. The input lag is non-existent as I can deal with precise stuff like Tyson so that's a non-issue. The worst would be no light gun games. Funny you mention rhythm games, I didn't have an issue playing Gitaroo Man at all on PS2 or when I had the stuff on Wii Guitar Hero 3 either.

[Aussie2B]

If you're hooking up an actual NES to an HDTV, then the amount of input lag is dependent on the TV. If you're running something that's essentially an emulator machine, like an NES Classic or a Retron, then you're gonna get input lag regardless of what TV you use. And if you're using a piece of hardware with wireless controllers, it's gonna be worse yet.

[Niku-Sama]

STOP THE PRESSES!

might wait it out because it seems...
http://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/2016/11/nes-classic-mini-runs-linux/

being able to load your own roms to the nes/famicom mini might not be far away

if a USB to serial is all that was needed that same method should be able to be used in order to mount an SD card and load roms to it. further investigation would need to be done in order to see if these roms pre loaded are modified in any way to make it work with the hardware but I am thinking that's un likely

[Tanooki]

Add to those presses from the same link a substory on the guts: http://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/2016/11/nintendo-classic-mini-nes-teardown-chips-hardware/

Some assumptions afoot, but it appears it's (if not hacked downward by Nintendo but is paper to spec accurate) more powerful than the Wii.

"Code numbers on chips led those users to determine that the system (which emulates NES games and displays them on 1080p displays) is primarily fuelled by an AllWinner R16 "system-on-chip" solution.

If the chip works as advertised by Chinese manufacturer AllWinner, as opposed to being customised for the Mini NES in any way, then it includes a dual-core Mali-400 GPU which could be powerful enough to pump out as many as 55 million triangles per second (in its 28nm 500MHz variant). There's also a quad-core ARM Cortex-A7 CPU, which has been clocked at 1.2GHz in smartphones, as well as 256MB of DDR3 RAM and 512MB of NAND flash storage."

Also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/5avo9m/nes_classic_hardware_if_this_picture_is_true/

Seems crazy but Nintendo being the king of cheap and general efficiency, this may have been far cheaper than any other options and it's actually (if right) more powerful than the NEW 3DS too.

This would lend credence to what I said many months ago about Nintendo thinking outward. If (and it has) this (as I said) sold very well they may look to do more since it's their in house emulation group doing it. Perhaps next we could very well get that Gameboy/GBC or GBA handheld, even more likely a SNES Classic Edition of which for any of these the hardware would have no problem. N64, not sure, really not a big tech person so I can't compare the figures, but would that be possible in those specs as well?? Nintendo could have went balls out with this so they could do best of setups for all their past hardware people get all tingly over to overpay on these days. Why not take advantage of people who don't want to be chumps paying $20 or $200 on a SNES game with a 30 game package for $60?

[Tanooki]

Sorry about the double post, but this is something interesting reading into that reddit thread and here's the highlights:

A few people have run weird tests, and or looked at the board, seems to believe it has a data port going through USB. One person plugged the system into their PC and Windows device manager lists it as CLV-S-NESY, and if you hit reset button it switches modes and another hardware identifier pops up if you do it. Another person is an employee who works with Allwinter SOCs all day, such as the one in the Classic NES, it's very easy to hack and tweak to your needs.

[Gameguy]

You have gotten rather sassy as of late. I approve.
I've been in a bit of a bad mood lately due to various personal things going on right now, plus looking into this hobby now just leads to further irritation which is the opposite of what a hobby should be doing. There's barely any finds now, and any discussions on games now just lead to technical specs rather than the games themselves. If I cared that much about modern displays and resolutions I wouldn't be playing old games. People want to play 25 year old games but they'll only play them on current 1080p displays, while still using filters to make it look like they're being played on an old CRT display anyway.

It comes specifically to this new Nintendo plug and play system. Over 10 years ago various companies were producing cheap NES-on-a-chip systems that were everywhere including various mall kiosks. Plus stuff like the Atari Flashback and various other console plug and plays were coming out at the same time. Now Nintendo is jumping on the wagon and instead of being criticized like any other company would be for being too little too late, people are praising them like they're a genius. With current storage options and pricing they could have fit the entire NES and Famicom library on it for the same price. All of the games on it I already own, except for maybe two and one of those I sold off due to disliking it. Sega plug and plays have been around for years too and nobody really talks about them.


Poor display large and heavy.
They weren't poor displays unless you only had low end junk. A quality CRT will have better colour accuracy than flat screen displays, the resolution doesn't matter as much to me as the colours.

Of course I watch videos on my laptop, but this is more for pure convenience than anything else. Plus everything I watch on it is free so there's that. I sure can tell the blacks are washed out a bit. It's the same with using an MP3 player, nobody chooses MP3s because they have better sound quality than other options. It's because you can fit 1000 hours of them in your pocket, and can get them for free.


Plus your light guns will work.
Pretty much the biggest reason to keep SD CRTs around. Duck Hunt is one of the best games on the system, plus the various other light gun games on other consoles right through the Playstation and Saturn. I wouldn't give them up.

[Greg2600]

The AVS was made for hobbyists, the NES Classic was not. That's it in a nutshell.

[Graham Mitchell]

@gameguy: Gumshoe or gtfo

[FieryReign]

The AVS was made for hobbyists, the NES Classic was not. That's it in a nutshell.

Wrong. The mini thing was obviously made for youtubers. People talkin bout they want one to give as a gift. Lies. They want one to pad their shelf with.

[Graham Mitchell]

Wrong. The mini thing was obviously made for youtubers. People talkin bout they want one to give as a gift. Lies. They want one to pad their shelf with.

Wins the thread.

[bb_hood]

Does anybody remember the good old days where u could score a Nintendo + like 30 orig game carts for less than 50$ at a flea market?
Now we have people scalping plug-n-play systems for like 400$...

seriously wtf is going on???

[Graham Mitchell]

Does anybody remember the good old days where u could score a Nintendo + like 30 orig game carts for less than 50$ at a flea market?
Now we have people scalping plug-n-play systems for like 400$...

seriously wtf is going on???

Yes. All the noobs with money are shelf-queens and they're driving up the market. I was selling at SoCal Retrogaming Expo this year and sharing my booth with a buddy who had a big, expensive Neo-Geo AES collection. His Metal Slug 3 was going for $3000 by itself. Some kid came up and said "oh, Neo-Geo, I've heard of that" and ended up buying the whole setup for around $10K. Just insane. He couldn't have been older than 23.

They all want prestine shit, too. That's how you know they're not playing it. So many people manhandled my Mega Drive and Genesis games. At least 20 people went through my Rolling Thunder 2 and 3 carts and said "If they had manuals I'd get them."

My buddy owns a game shop and they charge $15 for SMB/Duck Hunt. And people pay it. Happily. He said "It's a system seller." I remember when they couldn't give those away. In my mind, it's a $0.99 cart.

This can't last forever. Stuff's only worth what people will pay for it. The last few conventions I went to there were multiple Little Samsons and Earthbounds that no one was buying. The bubble may be bursting soon.

[bb_hood]

Yes. All the noobs with money

This can't last forever. Stuff's only worth what people will pay for it. The last few conventions I went to there were multiple Little Samsons and Earthbounds that no one was buying. The bubble may be bursting soon.

Yeah I hate to agree with that first statement but yeah, it does seem like alot of the noobs just cash out for whatever. Its a shame because it justifies scalpers & resellers asking super-high prices.

Yeah, and regarding the second statement.. yeah. I cant see vintage games continuing to rise in price because at some point it just gets rediculous. Its amazing what money can buy when you arent collecting mint in box 25 year old games. I doubt we will see the day when the rare good old stuff is cheap or worthless, but I do think retro games are very popular collectibles right now. I think its very possible that many expensive games will drop in price.

[Niku-Sama]

Good let it bust.
I want a nes mini because i think it'll be a cheap alternative to a flash cart.

[Tanooki]

Watching what I have the last couple years in particular in disgust because I gave up trying, but not to a point of being uninformed I've noticed a few things. I think a bubble on the stuff has finally hit that jiggly bit where you wonder if it will break, at least with Nintendo pre-21st century console stuff. Those high points hit a few years back really haven't cracked any higher, it appears people are just wising up to it, or just hit the screw it point. But there has been an annoying buck shot effect I've seen just this year that wasn't there a year ago (lets be fair 2014.) When Nintendo got bad people started to spread out to look for the next un-molested grounds. The first notable to take it in the butt was the TG16/PCE stuff, being realistic not high demand or a favorite of most people of the era, but the prices, even on the most deplorable garbage isn't as cheap as even the fugly NES stuff out there now. From there it went wider to more considered niche stuff from known makers. Look at the SegaCD, 32X, and the Saturn (the good to best stuff) as it's ugly. Lately in the most recent of times, take a peek at the Master System. Back when I had that thing a little over a year and a half ago outside of a few select notables most of it wasn't worth more than your average Gameboy game...now it just sucks it's like back to original retail and rising at a clip.

That's why I think we're at a wobble point. As one thing gets too nauseating for enough someone's out there that care, they either A) give up, B) live in denial and grab for scraps, or C) find another system. But if it's C, how many other systems are there left if now the more uninteresting stuff to most like the SMS of all things is getting expensive? Eventually the price trolls will run out of stuff to screw with first by driving it up, and then by hitting a high that runs people off. We're already at both those points on the NES and SNES as they're not jumping anymore, yet they're barely if anything contracting. The secondary stuff and tertiary is going south (err north?) too. So what's left? Easy. Buying up the new stuff to screw people as hard as possible. NES Classic Edition, amiibo, collector's edition game or console box sets, and so called other (by manufacturer spin) limited edition fluff. Once they run out of crap to screw people on because they get more wise and more patient it will crack.

A nice side effect, the chinese are getting damn smart with their aftermarket cartridges on many levels. Ever notice the quality of GBA games that are bootlegs in the last 2 years? Plastic is correct (or like 1mm off on the mold), stickers down to the ink spray pattern are correct (or a pixel off on some piece of art if that), no more holes in the pins and they etch the right (C)Nintendo under there too. Internally high quaity chips, including save chips that need no battery to work. On the NES side, a brand new label called 'THE BEST 100 VIDEO GAMES' (even though it's a 143 in 1, all legit) is out there that replaces that 150in1 Super Games and it adds more of the high dolllar stuff, including JP only stuff with english translations, many battery save games on the board too. And that NES stuff is selling for like $30-40 a pop easy. Why? Scalpers...same experience, none of the feeling ripped off and poor effect.

[Graham Mitchell]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161120/b986a413586b52d5f943aeb8de8e54cf.jpg

[Greg2600]

Wrong. The mini thing was obviously made for youtubers. People talkin bout they want one to give as a gift. Lies. They want one to pad their shelf with.

Funny because most of my friends who do not collect games, bought one, if they could.

[Gameguy]

@gameguy: Gumshoe or gtfo
I don't think I have Gumshoe yet, it's one I've been meaning to get but haven't come across for some reason. I meant to reply to this earlier but got busy and forgot.

[Zthun]

Going to agree maintaining a CRT now is kind of dumb. Poor display large and heavy. Don't agree so much dumping original hardware especially if using everdrives. Though stuff like the R5 or side loaded ouya or any good android high end tablet/micro console gets it done well too.

Disagree. While input lag is minimal for most people, for some of us, we can tell the difference. With a CRT, you can still play light gun games which you can't do with modern HDTVs. My lady's grandson loves duck hunt and he wouldn't be playing that if the NES wasn't hooked up to the CRT.

I'm in the Original Hardware + CRT + Everdrive boat. Will cost you upwards of $200, but that will get you everything you need.

[Tanooki]

I'm sensitive to it, maybe not 20ms and above hyper sensitive, but before the TV I have now I had that problem on a large screen Samsung that made gaming impossible. I think the mileage really varies on the argument based on that due to input lag. Some TVs (more in the last 2 years) have been adding in added tech inside to drop that rating down to like a PC LCD but it adds a cost (like $200 2 years ago on a Sony so I skipped it.)

Light guns, 100% agree. There are work arounds people are developing, maybe it'll flourish next year on how to make one or modify an existing zapper as I agree Duck Hunt is fantastic.

[Graham Mitchell]

So I get my avs last night and it's the real deal. My friend and I perceived no lag (doesn't mean it's not there) and there was some audio weirdness, but I think that was the fault of my 5.1 amp. Everything works great. If you have the coin, this plus an everdrive is the way to go.

[XYXZYZ]

I was in a thrift store today and as I walked by the shelf full of cheap CRT TVs the local news was running a story about a line at Toys R Us that stretched around the building, for the NES classic. Apparently it's the Tickle-Me-Elmo this year, for normal people as well as gamers. So, Nintendo may keep the supplies down to get the press. Or not, I don't know how this nonsense works.

[Az]

Beyond the short controller cords I really don't get the hate or the snooty instant dismissal of the NES Classic, especially from people that are supposed to be knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts. There's a lot of weird comments that are repeated over and over that leave me kind scratching my head.

"It's just a cash grab" - As opposed to charity work? Should Nintendo have went into this hoping to lose money? Cost-wise it's the absolute cheapest these games have ever been offered in the history of their existence. Nintendo has always, always charged out the nose for any of their games in any format and has never de-valued their library by selling them for pennies on the dollar. You couldn't get the real carts cheaper, nor buy them on Virtual Console cheaper, so barring flat out piracy this is as cheap as you'll get. They're actually setting themselves up to lose sales from a casual customer in that it would be much, much cheaper to buy this console versus $5 or $6 bucks per title on any of their Virtual Console storefronts. Short cords aside, you won't find any other retro-game collection system that has either the build quality or care in software/presentation that the NES Classic has. The hardware/software blows any other similar product out of the water while priced at or below those same systems' MSRP.

"I can't wait to sideload game X!" Umm....what? You can emulate pirated NES games on a zillion different platforms with little or no effort right this very second. Why give a moment's thought into getting hyped for this?

"I've already got teh ROMs" Congratulations, you're not the target audience of this system. It's why people pay $2 for a small order of fries rather than $5 for a 10 pound bag of potatoes. Wasting my entire day off isn't worth the $20 I save by changing my own brake calipers and u-joints. Convenience has a price that can only be self measured. It's a closed library, one time sale, fire-and-forget product aimed at people without the time or inclination to run an emulator setup. Every time I've heard this system mentioned in real life conversation it's by people who probably haven't even touched anything but an iPhone game in 20+ years. If you've even heard the word "torrent" or "GoodNES" then this isn't for you, but that doesn't mean you should take an elite shit on other's fun. Some comments approach a tinge of jealousy like they're angry because these precious game experiences shouldn't be seen by a larger audience.

[FieryReign]

^Spare me. I puked through my nose reading that.

[Zthun]

Beyond the short controller cords I really don't get the hate or the snooty instant dismissal of the NES Classic, especially from people that are supposed to be knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts. There's a lot of weird comments that are repeated over and over that leave me kind scratching my head.


The main problem is the limited supply that Nintendo always puts out. This happens with almost everything Nintendo does. See Amibos when they first got released.

That and some people just love to hate on Nintendo.

[Gameguy]

Beyond the short controller cords I really don't get the hate or the snooty instant dismissal of the NES Classic, especially from people that are supposed to be knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts.
I suppose it's because I'm knowledgeable that I dismiss it immediately. I know it's not compatible with Duck Hunt or any of the light gun games, and only includes the common games that I've already owned for years, so it's a completely unnecessary piece of junk like the various plug and plays I see at thrift stores for under $5.


"It's just a cash grab" - As opposed to charity work? Should Nintendo have went into this hoping to lose money? Cost-wise it's the absolute cheapest these games have ever been offered in the history of their existence. Nintendo has always, always charged out the nose for any of their games in any format and has never de-valued their library by selling them for pennies on the dollar.
People wouldn't feel as bad if Nintendo were releasing something new, like some brand new games. Selling a collection of common games people into old games already own seems worthless. If this were a portable console with optional TV hookup, it would be more appealing as it's offering something different(besides all the GBA NES releases).


You couldn't get the real carts cheaper....
I sure could when I bought them used at garage sales and thrift stores, years ago before everything got stupid. I found plenty of games for $1 each. Collectors are used to buying games used, why are you only listing new retail options and pricing?


"I can't wait to sideload game X!" Umm....what? You can emulate pirated NES games on a zillion different platforms with little or no effort right this very second. Why give a moment's thought into getting hyped for this?
Only reason I can really think of is people thinking the hardware is more suited to emulate the games properly compared to other hardware platforms, no idea if this is true or not.


"I've already got teh ROMs" Congratulations, you're not the target audience of this system.
So who is the target audience of the system? Hipsters? Earlier you said you didn't understand the dismissal from "knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts" yet you're now saying that they're not the target audience, why are you surprised again?

It's like this is aimed at the same people who buy USB turntables. People who think playing vinyl just makes it automatically sound better, while using the cheapest quality turntables possible. Or it's just aimed at kids as this year's must-have toy which will just be forgotten and disposed of within the next year like every other must-have toy once they get bored with it.


Wasting my entire day off isn't worth the $20 I save by changing my own brake calipers and u-joints. Convenience has a price that can only be self measured. It's a closed library, one time sale, fire-and-forget product aimed at people without the time or inclination to run an emulator setup.
So it's less of a waste of time travelling around town trying to find one of these NES Classic systems? Nintendo sends a whole 2 or 3 of these per store per shipment, that's fine assuming nobody wants to buy them, except a ton of people still do. If it's so easy to buy one then why are they selling for $200-$300 on ebay? Nintendo could have made more to fill the demand but they chose not to. Nothing about buying one is convenient at this point.

[Az]

I sure could when I bought them used at garage sales and thrift stores, years ago before everything got stupid. I found plenty of games for $1 each. Collectors are used to buying games used, why are you only listing new retail options and pricing?

That's great you bought them 20 years ago for chickenfeed, but you answered your own question. Can anyone buy these 30 NES carts anywhere in today's market of 2016 for under $60?


So who is the target audience of the system? Hipsters? Earlier you said you didn't understand the dismissal from "knowledgeable retro-game enthusiasts" yet you're now saying that they're not the target audience, why are you surprised again?


So it's less of a waste of time travelling around town trying to find one of these NES Classic systems? Nintendo sends a whole 2 or 3 of these per store per shipment, that's fine assuming nobody wants to buy them, except a ton of people still do. If it's so easy to buy one then why are they selling for $200-$300 on ebay? Nintendo could have made more to fill the demand but they chose not to. Nothing about buying one is convenient at this point.

Let me rephrase. There is a big difference between saying "This item is trash with huge shortcomings and will leave buyers disappointed" versus "This is good quality but just isn't for me and I don't need it".

Again, barring the short cords, all criticisms of this console have either been external qualms and beefs completely divorced from the product performance (low quantities, sky-high scalpers, disgruntled Wii U backlash or misc Nintendo hate) or have been issues that 100% go hand in hand with the very nature of all plug & play consoles (can't add games, no legs so no lifespan, designed as a sub-casual audience impulse buy). Think about this: Nintendo could have easily took this same thing, slapped it on a disc, bundled the NES controller with it and sold it as a Wii or Wii U title 5 or 10 years ago. It would have been well reviewed and sold great. But, would they have reached the huge audience they have now with selling it as a low priced stand-alone console?

Plug & play consoles are by their very definition sold as a kid's gift or gift to someone that is not really hardcore into games. This does the job for them much better than anything else on the market, nothing like the embarassments to gaming that the AT Games Sega products are. A quality retro collection that even non-gamers can get into (even if just for a few months) is not something I view as bad for the hobby.

[Gameguy]

That's great you bought them 20 years ago for chickenfeed, but you answered your own question. Can anyone buy these 30 NES carts anywhere in today's market of 2016 for under $60?
You weren't just talking about recently, not the way you worded it.


Cost-wise it's the absolute cheapest these games have ever been offered in the history of their existence.



Let me rephrase. There is a big difference between saying "This item is trash with huge shortcomings and will leave buyers disappointed" versus "This is good quality but just isn't for me and I don't need it".

Again, barring the short cords, all criticisms of this console have either been external qualms and beefs completely divorced from the product performance (low quantities, sky-high scalpers, disgruntled Wii U backlash or misc Nintendo hate) or have been issues that 100% go hand in hand with the very nature of all plug & play consoles (can't add games, no legs so no lifespan, designed as a sub-casual audience impulse buy). Think about this: Nintendo could have easily took this same thing, slapped it on a disc, bundled the NES controller with it and sold it as a Wii or Wii U title 5 or 10 years ago. It would have been well reviewed and sold great. But, would they have reached the huge audience they have now with selling it as a low priced stand-alone console?
Honestly if it was sold as a disc with a custom controller I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it, assuming it was priced cheaper like $30 with the controller. $60 for a Plug & Play is just too high priced, especially after every other company seemed to have released one of these around 10 years ago. It's like if a company just started making flip phones now to replace the old brick phones, when everyone is already using smartphones. Also, what's this about Nintendo only having a large audience now? If anything it was even bigger when the Wii was the current console they offered, they lost some market share with the Wii U. Plus, something like a compilation disc sold now should help them move whatever their latest console is.

[bb_hood]

"This is good quality but just isn't for me and I don't need it".

Again, barring the short cords, all criticisms of this console have either been external qualms and beefs completely divorced from the product performance (low quantities, sky-high scalpers, disgruntled Wii U backlash or misc Nintendo hate) or have been issues that 100% go hand in hand with the very nature of all plug & play consoles (can't add games, no legs so no lifespan, designed as a sub-casual audience impulse buy). Think about this: Nintendo could have easily took this same thing, slapped it on a disc, bundled the NES controller with it and sold it as a Wii or Wii U title 5 or 10 years ago. It would have been well reviewed and sold great. But, would they have reached the huge audience they have now with selling it as a low priced stand-alone console?


Yeah I think that statement is fair.
You cant hate on Nintendo for re-releasing games they own. Also you cant hate on Nintendo for shortages. This thing is pretty damn popular and its Christmas season. The first batch that was shipped over sold out really fast because of the anticipation and the scalpers and people buying them as gifts. Ive seen people mention that larger shipments of these systems have been recieved and they have since been restocked. Ive also seen on CL that someone in Boston had over a pallet of these things and was selling them for 80$. So I dont think its really a hard item to find anymore. I really dont think Nintendo created inital shortages of these on purpose. The first shipment simply sold out, and its no surprise if scalpers consumed a large chunk of the inital shipment.

Also regarding scalpers, its annoying when people scalp this stuff, but this always happens when new Nintendo stuff comes out. After a month of its realease its no longer hard to find. Wait untill after Christmas and it the price will drop to 40$. Let the masses argue over modern mechendise. People who know better will just wait. Or buy a flash cart.

[TecmoBowlTerror]

Anyone done a comparison of the AVS with the retro pie consoles?
I'm strongly considering the AVS with the everdrive flash cart, but see the retro pie consoles completely put together are only about $130 as opposed to the $250+ I'd spend with AVS/flash cart.

I have read stuff that implies AVS works really well with 10 year old HDTVs which I primarily use. Got a 52" in the man room for Tecmo Bowl.
I'm not huge into technical aspects of this stuff, so I'm behind the curve on all these gadgets. I currently use a gamecube for emulation, but I'm not a huge retro gamer. I plays a ton of Tecmo Bowl, but hardly any other old NES titles.

I have noticed with HDTV and NES or the GC that there can be perhaps a lag issue with the controls....BUT I've noticed in some cases that the game play really seems to go quicker than usual with some HDTVs as opposed to CRT TV when playing Tecmo Bowl. I've noticed a decided difference in how quick a particular WR gets into his break on some HDTVs. Some might think its lag as the control reaction could be slow on trying to nail full power field goals for instance, and why it's harder to perfectly get full power. However Ive noticed the sped up stuff. As a guy who plays tons of Tecmo Bowl, Im someone that can decidedly notice this stuff. Curious if anyone can explain what that speed issue about?

[Tanooki]

Display lag, game moves faster than what the lag makes you perceive it. It's not a console problem, it's entirely a TV problem. Displaylag.com can explain it in good detail, but I can run it down easy as this -- go there, look up tv, make sure it's like 30ms or under or you'll notice your WR issue.

Basically the processing a HDMI tv does adds layers of lag while scaling the old image to something the set can handle. Any added garbage like MPEG filtering, picture enhancement, other tweaks, boosts, or other enhancements add more layers. Each can be a few ms or so, but it stacks. You don't see this on a PC as those LCD/LEDs already are like 10ms or less as they're just raw image to the panel while the TV screws around. All of them have some level of it, but the layers and layers add more, and each processor varies in a TV, even among the same manufacturer depending on the type/model of a TV.

You can have a 29" and a 40" model of a TV that has the same # to it, it'll report one, then you can have another model that's say like 31" and 44" and that one will run like 10ms slower. A few TVs on the market, but it adds a cost has an added processor in there to make the TV behave nearly at the level of a PC LED that removes the issue. I got a Vizio 29" 2-3 years ago, looked it up, was like 25ms~ and it was $250, and there was a Sony at 22" with that processor and it was like $500-600 but the ms was in the low teens.

It's best just to research something speedy. I have had that TV and it hasn't failed me, but I ended up with one 4" larger, a Samsung from my grandma who passed away and it was only 1ms different so I swapped to it. I had this same issue with the huge 45-50" samsung in the other room, I though mario allstars disc on Wii was broken and ended up selling it. I got another like 2 years later, ran it on the LED TV I had prior to the Vizio and it ran like the cart. That's when I looked into it and learned about this stuff.

Basically your avs, retron5, nes classic edition, nvidia shield tablet/console, etc running into an HDMI tv can all equally suck balls or be perceived to work as nicely as a CRT (minus light gun games.)

[Graham Mitchell]

I've generally found that if you're tv has a game mode and you use that setting it's fine. In my experience, this lag thing is a newer problem. My older hdtvs don't have these fancy hdr settings, and the games run fine.

[FoxNtd]

This article does a good job of illustrating the better alternative. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/12/one-upping-the-nes-classic-edition-with-the-raspberry-pi-3-and-retropie/

[Tanooki]

I've generally found that if you're tv has a game mode and you use that setting it's fine. In my experience, this lag thing is a newer problem. My older hdtvs don't have these fancy hdr settings, and the games run fine.

That's more or less how it was with my old 27"? Panasonic Viera, an old 720i/p set I had from the mid 00s. I never even thought to disable the filters as it had none other than one for running movies for MPEG which old consoles wouldn't trigger. It ran Punchout as nice as the WEGA that it replaced when its board that turned it on fried out. Far as I'm concerned if any TV can handle Mike Tyson in Punchout, it's lag free enough for pre-HD gaming. I had to hunt to get the answer when my kid accidentally cracked the screen like 2 years ago as I knew it was a thing by then.

[FieryReign]

So. Almost 2 weeks into the new year and not a peep from Nintendo. They sure like to have the rep guy and Miyamoto on late nite talk shows talking about a lame mobile game and an upcoming handheld.

Nothing on the crap they're pulling with this NES mini thing? I see ALOT of people are pissed. If you can't keep up with supply and demand then say something. It is so hilarious, missing out on making money. The interest is gone now.

They'll probably roll out millions in February, when nobody gives a fuck anymore and are looking towards the new handheld.

For real? 4-5 skus per retailer? Who the fuck do you think you are?

[Graham Mitchell]

That's more or less how it was with my old 27"? Panasonic Viera, an old 720i/p set I had from the mid 00s. I never even thought to disable the filters as it had none other than one for running movies for MPEG which old consoles wouldn't trigger. It ran Punchout as nice as the WEGA that it replaced when its board that turned it on fried out. Far as I'm concerned if any TV can handle Mike Tyson in Punchout, it's lag free enough for pre-HD gaming. I had to hunt to get the answer when my kid accidentally cracked the screen like 2 years ago as I knew it was a thing by then.

I got to soda popinski in 1 life using the avs, so I think we're good.

@fieryreign: the fanboys expect so little from Nintendo that they think it's basically ok to fuck the public with no risk of future sales because of blind loyalty. This isn't the last time we'll see something like this. It sucks anyway. My wife scored me a Famicom Mini and trust me, it's nothing to write home about.

I don't have links at the moment but someone did hack it and put about 60 games on it before the menu went apeshit. Again, My AVS can play HUNDREDS with a flash cart, has adjustable expansion audio and scanlines. Folks, it's an amiibo that plugs in.

[Tanooki]

Funny Best Buy a few miles from here before Christmas didn't get 4-5, they got 45. The roll out around the country per store was a minimum of 12 and a max of who knows what (at least 45.) There's no excuse for the shortage, but the numbers were higher than given credit. I think the problem is they slashed 3DS creation temporarily, killed the WiiU, and they're doing the slow roll on the NES because they need to get Switch units done by March 10th/17th whenever it pops mid month. Given it's looking to be a cheap $250 system, they need to meet demand.

[FieryReign]

According to a GS employee I chat with, Nintendo ceased production on these things. Great job and great showing. Nintendo loves the resellers.

They're also keeping retailers up in the air about shipments regarding their new faulty Switch system. Great job on that. It's not a matter of if, but when they will throw in the towel.