Dreamcast Sold 9.13 Million Total Units over Its Commercial Lifetime

[Nz17]

I just don't understand the thinking of some people. Here is an exchange I had on Facebook with a backwards thinking individual.

>>>

Nz17 shared a link to the group: Let's make Sega Dreamcast GD ROM Drive Emulation Happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqocFElidKI
Sega Dreamcast just days away from release


Christopher K Dolan
Sega sold 10.6 million Dreamcast consoles between its November 27, 1998 Japanese launch and when the console was officially discontinued in March 2001.


Nz17
10.6 million? Where'd you get that number? 9.13 million Dreamcasts were sold: < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_million-selling_game_consoles#cite_note-Sega_Stats-55 > List of best-selling game consoles - Wikipedia


Christopher K Dolan
Sega sold 10.6 million Dreamcast consoles between its November 27, 1998 Japanese launch and when the console was officially discontinued in March 2001. In total it was on the market for two years three months although it was also still sold in certain regions for a few more years. In terms of its U.S. launch – and this is where the sales comparison comes in – the Dreamcast was on the market for one year and six months. This is a life span that’s comparable to the Wii U’s one year and five months.

In total, the Dreamcast sold 2.32 million units in Japan and 8.28 Million outside Japan.

There are multiple Articles that site this Figure as opposed to the 9.13 million figure.


Nz17
Right, but from where are they getting their numbers? I cited references to SEGA.


Nz17
Please see this discussion for why 9.13 million is the likelier number and the problem of citogenesis. < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dreamcast/Archive_2#Ok_I_did_some_more_research >
Talk:Dreamcast/Archive 2 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org


Christopher K Dolan
That extra bit between 9.13 and 10.6 could either cover other unofficial markets (ROTW, basically) in the official retail time frame, a reached estimate, or a combination of both. It also makes sense in the context of Saturn which did sell roughly 10 million in its official lifetime, and the Dreamcast had a much healthier first two years than Saturn, especially in the West. Also many Top Video Game Publishers such as Gamepro and IGN both cited the 10.6 M estimates as well as news organizations such as the Guardian (UK) printed an article with that estimate as well. There are sever other freelance articles that cite it as well. Lastly It is the Figure official used by google should you ask it "how many dreamcast were made" Or "How many Sega Dreamcast were Made" or "how many dreamcast consoles were produced" . Not sure about Siri though as I dislike apple.


Nz17
So what you are saying is we should trust "sm284614" from forum.pcvsconsole.com, which is ultimately the source of these 10.6 citations, over SEGA, the Computer Entertainment Supplier's Association, and Mirko Ernkvist {the scholarly author of the academic book cited in the Wikipedia article}. I trust these established people and organizations over some pseudonymous person from an old, dead forum no matter how many Web sites quote him.

[Steve W]

It blows my mind to think the Dreamcast was only on US shelves for a year and a half. I bought mine a couple of months after launch and was with it until the end. It seemed like so much longer back then. I don't think I adopted another console in that generation until Phantasy Star Online came out for the GameCube, then I slid the ol' Dreamcast aside and put a GC and soon after an Xbox on my TV stand.

[WulfeLuer]

Also many Top Video Game Publishers such as Gamepro and IGN both cited the 10.6 M estimates as well as news organizations such as the Guardian (UK) printed an article with that estimate as well. There are sever other freelance articles that cite it as well.

Lolwut? I know there is a mentality out there that treats these publications as gamer gospel, but the simple fact is that journalists (especially video game journalists) have a habit of shoveling random things from the internet out and then parroting it ad naseam. They might even point to 'gamedood420noscope' or whatever and claim it's gamer lore. The problem is now that lore is mistaken for data (shut up Wesley) either because of laziness or some other reason and gamers in general tend to support lore over data (shut UP Wesley) because of the hints of mystique, even in cases of cold hard numbers like this. Mostly because games journalism is a bastion of sycophantic bums, which brings irony into play.

[WulfeLuer]

Wow, you can tell I was half awake when I wrote that. Ultimately, what I was trying to say is that there are people out there that will take games journalism at face value, maybe sprinkle in some of the smaller 'indie' stuff to act as a check. The problem is that games journalism is not just far from perfect, they're very far. Combine this with the nerdy tendency to give credence to lore (the legends, the half-truths, and the outright fabrications that simmer in basements and chat rooms until just enough of us almost believe) and we wind up with situations like this. The irony is that gamers are (mostly) well aware that games journalism tends to be crap, so we cling to the lore even more, even to the point where the journalists themselves cite the lore, and now the lore is mistaken for data (SHUT UP WESLEY). It's become a bleakly humorous cycle.

I hesitate to bring this, since it sounds like interwebz ad hominem horsecrap, but there's some signs that the person defending the aberrant figure might have an...unusual thinking pattern. It's not something to whale on the guy about (I have a similar pattern), just something to be aware of.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

The Dreamcast had so much potential. Honestly, I think Sega should have kept it going for longer. Dreamcast games of 2000-2001 usually look better than PS2 games of the same era. If you were to take the Dreamcast's best looking games and the PS2's best looking games, yes the PS2 would win but only because it lasted for a long time and developers were able to milk every last ounce of power out of it.

For its lifespan, 9.13 million units is decent. That's about 4.06 million/year (over 27 months) but keep in mind that for the first 9 of those months, the system was Japan-only.

The Dreamcast's predecessor, the Saturn, sold 9.26 million in roughly 5 years for a paltry 1.85 million/year.
Nintendo 64 sold 32.93 million in roughly 7 years, that's 4.70 million/year.
SNES was 49.10 million units in roughly 8 years, that's 6.14 million/year.
Genesis sold 30.75 million units in roughly 9 years, that's 3.42 million/year.
NES sold 61.91 million units in roughly 12 years, that's 5.16 million/year.

As for the other non-Sony consoles in the 128-bit generation,
Gamecube sold 21.74 million units in roughly 5.5 years, that's 3.95 million/year.
Xbox sold 24 million units in roughly 4.5 years, that's 5.33 million/year.

So by the standards of successful consoles leading up to that time, the Dreamcast's sales were close to average, and its sales per year figures were competitive with the GameCube and Xbox. There's no way the Dreamcast would have been able to match the PS2's success, but the GameCube had gigabyte-sized discs and no DVD support and managed to survive until early 2007. Who's to say the Dreamcast couldn't have stuck it out until 2006-ish and been discontinued around the same time as the GameCube or Xbox? It could have been another second-tier 128-bit system alongside those two.

The PlayStations widened the audience and grew the video game industry entirely. In it's 10.25 year lifespan, it sold 102.49 million units - that's 9.99 million/year! The PS2 juggernaut sold 155 million units in 12 years - that's a staggering 12.92 million/year!

[Greg2600]

The advent of the Xbox was the end of the DC. SEGA knew it. The DC needed a lot of help. They needed to re institute copy protection against burned games. They needed to redesign that awful controller. They needed 3rd party support beyond Capcom. The only niche the DC somewhat had was as the 3rd fiddle to Sony (massive mainstream penetration) and Nintendo (buoyed by superior 1st party titles). Once Microsoft got into the act, SEGA has no shot. They couldn't match the marketing budgets of Sony or Nintendo, to say nothing about Microsoft. XB had full 3rd party support, and an online network day one.

[lendelin]

@Nz17: Very well done, we have to be careful with numbers and always look at the source, so you are absolutely right to question some data. It is always the same, numbers are getting thrown around, people just adopt them w/o research, and sometimes even the dumbest nonsense becomes factual if repeated over and over again.

To get reliabe numbers is sometimes really difficult and sometimes impossible. Years ago I tried to find out the exact US-sales numbers of the two NES games Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy, I was only able to get rough estimates and some numbers some authors threw around without having a reliable source.

The two numbers about the Dreamcast sales are important, however not decisive for the failure of Sega. I think you know the following already, but for the posters who wonder why Sega went out of the hardware business despite decent sales numbers for the Dreamcast:

Although the goal for DC sales by Peter Moore wasn't achieved, the Dreamcast sales were not bad at all and comparable with the later Xbox and GC sales. It is true that the hype about the PS2 and its strength as a DVD player cut into the DC sales (despite a role-model launch in the US and despite the price decrease to $150 and a free DC console with keyboard with the subscription to SegaNet), as well as the perspective of increased competition by the upcoming GC and the Xbox, the sales numbers were not the crux for the failure of Sega.

Since the Saturn-times Sega was a heavily subsidized company. If I remember correctly, it was Okawa (president of CSK and later Sega) who loaned the company SEGA $500 to $800 million (!!). Mismanagement in Japan, structural disorganization and some bad business decisions overall led to the situation that Sega was without the personal money of Okawa not anymore a viable company already in 1999.

Only approximetely twice the actual sales numbers would have saved Sega. The DC was the last Hurrah for Sega and a desperate attempt to survive. The end of Okawa and his money (he was terminally ill and died a couple of months after the discontinuation of the DC was announced) was also the end of Sega as a hardware manufacturer.