How did the RTS sub-genre die so quickly?

[Highwind Dragoon]

The only major one coming out this year is Spellforce 3, and that has RPG elements in it.

[Edmond Dantes]

"Quickly?" It was popular since the mid-90s.

It's probably just experiencing a lull right now.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Really, then name some of the major RTS that came out after Emsemble studios folded after 2008.

And that was after Stainless steel studios (creators of the Empire earth series) folded in 2005 or early 2006.

[Edmond Dantes]

.... Starcraft II?

Also what's with the confrontational attitude?

[Highwind Dragoon]

Nothing, just wondering if I missed out on some titles, which I might have.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_real-time_strategy_video_games

By year:

Year Released Year Released Year Released
1980 0 1990 2 2000 30 2010 10
1981 1 1991 6 2001 27 2011 5
1982 2 1992 3 2002 20 2012 2
1983 2 1993 4 2003 15 2013 5
1984 1 1994 8 2004 27 2014 6
1985 0 1995 4 2005 16 2015 7
1986 0 1996 10 2006 26 2016 5
1987 2 1997 26 2007 22
1988 6 1998 24 2008 9
1989 3 1999 14 2009 16

[WulfeLuer]

Well according to the page you cited, 2017 has 5 games incoming; not particularly indicative of a dead genre.

I will grant that a there's less attention these days to RTS overall. Some of it is evolution to things like MOBA and tower defense, some of it is mishandling (both real and perceived) of major franchises over the last few years (Total War, C&C, Civ), some of it that it's become the Game of Thrawns in multiplayer and next-to-impossible to "break in" without months of even years of effort and prep work. Your average gamer usually doesn't have that kind of patience, especially with constant beatdowns the only thing shown for it (hardcore types are a different story), add in lackluster or non-existent single player to boot.

A factor that is frequently unacknowledged is that the hardcore crowd tend to pick one series--or one game--and stick to that even when 'better' stuff comes along. Why bother shelling out $60 plus DLC for Mook Meatgrinder on Mars when you already know and love the Erupting Empires of Europe that you paid $30 back in the day, especially when you're already a repository of EEE knowledge that can rival most gaming fora?

And yes, some is the mobile market's expanding influence.

Anyway, I wouldn't call it dead or even dying just yet; going back to straight-up niche again would probably be a bit closer.

[Highwind Dragoon]

1. Civ is a turn-based strategy game, not RTS. TBS games like civilization and risk are still holding steady.

2. Dawn of War 3 came out in april, and it's more of a Moba than a base-building RTS, Sudden Strike 4 is actually RTT (Real time tactics), StarCraft: Remastered is a enhanced port pretty much.

3. That only leaves Halo Wars 2 and Spellforce 3 as the only original traditional RTS games released this year.

4. It's too early to make a judgment on Win that war yet.

[WulfeLuer]

I know that Civ is a TBS, as is Risk and others, but they tend to get lumped in the RTS genre, especially with mainstreamers that don't know or care about the difference (and that's where the money comes from).

There's still been a lot of mishaps in the genre, mostly because it tends to need to be very meticulously done, with the number of factors involved rising exponentially within the games themselves, and a great deal more emphasis on street dates and sales goals instead of balance and bugfixes. Going to war with the games we have instead of the games we want, if you will. Its resulting in released games that have more patches than most Boy Scout troops, in a genre where the fanbase tends toward patient perfectionism in one form or another.

The 'war' with mobile games isn't won or lost, but is ongoing and will be a factor for the foreseeable future. On a related note, are there even decent mobile RTS games out there?

[Highwind Dragoon]

No clue, but kemco published this is for GBA, the only RTS for the system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mech_Platoon

And pretty much all smartphones today are more powerful than the GBA and are touchscreen, so it's possible.

I think the future for RTS is mostly on mobile/portable and low-budget.

[Gamevet]

Halo Wars 2 was released on PC back in February.

[WulfeLuer]

Holy crap, I learned something today. I didn't think it was even practical to do an RTS on the Gameboy, not even the GBA. Shows what I know, eh? Something else for the Backlog of Glory.

Anyway, I still wouldn't say the genre is dead, or even dying just yet. It is getting a bit stagnant, not that this is unusual among games as a whole. Hopefully something fresh comes along to shake things up. It doesn't have to be would-be AAA trendsetter, just something a bit different or even outright kooky, as long as it makes conquest fun again. It doesn't even need to be 'pure RTS' to work. Imagine Ogre Battle getting a comeback, with a bit more emphasis on fortification (or an emphasis, period) and more on-the-fly decision-making. As long as the reputation meter doesn't come back; just because I kept it happy doesn't mean I enjoyed it.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Yeah, Fighting games almost died out with arcades, and point and click adventure games became niche after 1998's Grim Fandango.

There's still a chance for a comeback.

[celerystalker]

I think you're right about mobile being the future.

A big part of this is also that RTS games have really always been more of a PC genre that never truly got its teeth in on the console market. Sure, there have been Command & Conquer, WarCraft II, StarCraft, etc. ports, but they've always been criticized for the lack of the PC interface. As such, as people (at large) have really moved away from traditional desktops to laptops, tablets, and smart phones, mobile seems to hit the biggest part of the target. If they had caught on better on consoles, there would probably be a bigger market out there with more releases.

[Edmond Dantes]

Holy crap, I learned something today. I didn't think it was even practical to do an RTS on the Gameboy, not even the GBA. Shows what I know, eh? Something else for the Backlog of Glory.

You should watch Punching Weight sometime. One episode featured an RTS for the Gameboy COLOR. I believe it was called Warlocked.

[WulfeLuer]

Warlocked...I forgot about Warlocked. HG101 has an article about it too, if I remember correctly.^^; I'm going to wander off for a while, before I bring any more shame to the Dork Side.

[Edmond Dantes]

Dude you're in the same thread as the guy who started a guessing game then proved unable to recognize several popular titles, you're not the one who is gonna embarrass geekdom.

[WulfeLuer]

Lol, it's all good. I just needed to wander off for bit anyway; not like I tried mortification of the flesh with a n64 controller (for optimum pointy bits) or something. Actually I just buried myself in Dragon Quest VIII.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Dude you're in the same thread as the guy who started a guessing game then proved unable to recognize several popular titles, you're not the one who is gonna embarrass geekdom.

:roll:

1. I don't base my self-esteem off of a post on a message board.

2. If I cared any less about so-called "geekdom", I'd be a nihilist. I typically play games for fun and to unwind after work, If I don't work a morning shift the next day.

3. And yes, I recognized those titles, I was looking for any Modern Base-building RTS that flew under the radar after 2011.

4. Sorry It took so long, but I got a better Job with more Hours and better pay, so I haven't had the time to respond between work and games I bought off of the steam summer sale.

[Edmond Dantes]

.... Highwind, I was poking fun at myself, not at you.

[Highwind Dragoon]

..Oh, never mind, then....

Well, I got several RTS' from the steam summer sale, so I should be good for now.

...Heros of annihilated empires is the polar opposite of the shitty game spectrum than C&C 4.

How so? Well, C & C 4 is WAY too easy, while Heros of annihilated empires is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to beat on skill alone (IN THE FUCKING FIRST MISSION, I MIGHT ADD), depending how fast you moved at the beginning to get to the trigger event point.

[Edmond Dantes]

Okay, this is scary and now I wonder if Derek Alexander watches these forums, because just today he posted a video about console RTS games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTuztg7hYZI

Incidentally its the very first episode of his "Punching Weight" series which covers Warlocked.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Rusted Warfare - RTS looks exactly like the low budget RTS I was talking about:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/647960/Rusted_Warfare__RTS/

Hell yeah! :eek 2::hail:X_x

[Tanooki]

I think a mix of the first two.

Overly fierce competition
Learning curve

The early days stuff (Dune, C&C1, WC1 and 2) you could just take many many approaches, slug it out, prod for weaknesses, take your time and figure it out. Eventually though once Starcraft2 and the 2nd generation of C&C stuff (Red alert) rolled out things changed. It got very competitive on and offline for one so if you couldn't keep up or care to put 100s of hours into it you were hosed. Offline the 1P game stopped being about being smart and taking various approaches and became overly and aggressively scripted. You had to move a mass here or a mass there at this amount of time or specific moment, you had to develop this or that as the game designer wanted when they wanted or you were punished, mostly with failure, or a stalemate which fails anyway as you're stuck in a loop. That's why I stopped playing RTS at least and still go back to those old 4. Back then you could try different stuff, and they'd all work unless it was a decidedly bad idea. Now you must do what the script says or die. That is in no way fun for me in the least bit, it's a rote memory hours long waste of time, or a way to peddle $30 game guides.

[Highwind Dragoon]

I've been playing through rise of nations: extended edition, and it's pretty solid! Want to find the rise of legends spin off sometime soon.

[jefis]

They're hard to play on consoles, that's why publishers usually don't want to make games just for PC.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Just got total annihilation: kingdoms gold edition and empires: dawn of the modern world, and they're both good in their own respective ways.

[Gamevet]

I just picked up a big box Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds from a Half-Price-Books.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Did it come with the clone campaigns expansion disc? My favorite army is The Republic.

[Gamevet]

Yes, it has all of the campaigns.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Ah, you said that you got Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds, which is the vanilla version, and not Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds Saga, which is why I asked that question.

Might get back to playing SpellForce 1 again.

[Gamevet]

Ah, you said that you got Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds, which is the vanilla version, and not Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds Saga, which is why I asked that question.

Might get back to playing SpellForce 1 again.

It's strange. The box just says Galactic Battlegrounds, but inside the box it has the individual CD cases for Galactic Battlegrounds and the Clone Campaign. It also has a larger manual for both, as well as foldout flowcharts for the enemies of each faction, for the original and the expansion.

[Highwind Dragoon]

Maybe the person who sold it to half-price books put the clone campaigns items into the galactic battlegrounds box?

Who knows? :hmm::?