Adapter/Upscaler recommendations

[WulfeLuer]

Well, today I went ahead and tried playing my older consoles with the flatscreen that came into my life, and the resolution is atrocious. I don't have room to put an old CRT box anywhere right now, and I'm ok with adding more cabling to the snake farm I already have. Is there a decent HDMI adapter out there in the wild for SNES and PS2? I use coax for the SNES and 'RCA' component for the PS2.

I've done some light google fu already, just trying to sort out some working stuff from the stampeding ads and shills.

[Tron 2.0]

OSSC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

[jperryss]

The upcoming $100 RetroTink 2X will upconvert composite, s-video, and YPbPr to 480p HDMI output.

http://www.retrotink.com/#Products

[Spartacus]

Well, today I went ahead and tried playing my older consoles with the flatscreen that came into my life, and the resolution is atrocious. I don't have room to put an old CRT box anywhere right now, and I'm ok with adding more cabling to the snake farm I already have. Is there a decent HDMI adapter out there in the wild for SNES and PS2? I use coax for the SNES and 'RCA' component for the PS2.


Why on earth are you using coax for SNES? I would upgrade to composite at least and many composite cables include S-Video, which is even better if your TV will support it.


OSSC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

I just bought a Micomsoft Framemeister Mini a month ago and I'll share my experience. I paid pretty close to $400 for it brand new and the seller was kind enough to update the firmware, give me an English overlay for the remote and a euro scart to rgb mini adapter. So having no scart cables for any of my consoles, I used what I had on hand - composite cables and began testing with the various consoles I had in my home. Long story short, my cheap Walmart Vizio tv produced a better picture using the TV's composite inputs than I got using the Framemeister's composite to HDMI. The picture quality was as good or better and I usually got a bigger picture on the screen just plugging directly into the TV. Now it's true that I did not try experimenting with many of the filters and settings on the Framemeister too much because I was just doing a quick check and making sure that it worked. And the Framemeister has alot of settings to play with! And I suppose some could argue that the Framemeister was producing less input lag, but the Vizio has a game setting and I've never noticed lag while playing. My regret about the Vizio was that it only had composite inputs but not S-Video, which the Framemeister does.
I was kinda bummed about all this, so I pulled out my Retron 5 and did a comparison using it versus the other two methods. I had never done a comparison with it before and holy smokes, it just blew everything else away. The Retron 5 unquestionably gave me the best picture. It was so lopsided that I immediately order another Retron 5 to have as a backup unit. I was that impressed!
Now I know that the Retron 5 is simply emulating the games and the Framemeister can be used for alot more consoles than the Retron 5 can emulate, but if I were playing games that the Retron 5 could play. I would use it!
Now the one odd thing that the Framemeister really impressed me with was when using it with PAL PS1 and PS2 consoles. The Framemeister acts as a video converter and produced a much better picture than the converter that I was previously using. And I have enough PAL games to be happy enough with it for that alone.
So it's been a month now and I purchased an Analogue Nt system but haven't gotten around to using it for a comparison. Of course it's limited to just SNES. I've been buying special custom made "luma sync?" scart cables to use with the euro scart to rgb mini adapter for every console I have that does scart. Haven't had the chance to try any of those and they aren't cheap either!
So I guess I have a solution if future TV's do not offer composite or component connections. I can use the Framemeister to hook up my old consoles. I would hope there are cheaper options in the future, but at the time of my purchase there wasn't any that anyone would recommend.
So is it worth it? All I can really say is that it's expensive. Very expensive.

[gbpxl]

Framemeister

[bb_hood]

I just bought a Micomsoft Framemeister Mini a month ago and I'll share my experience. I paid pretty close to $400 for it brand new and the seller was kind enough to update the firmware, give me an English overlay for the remote and a euro scart to rgb mini adapter. So having no scart cables for any of my consoles, I used what I had on hand - composite cables and began testing with the various consoles I had in my home. Long story short, my cheap Walmart Vizio tv produced a better picture using the TV's composite inputs than I got using the Framemeister's composite to HDMI. The picture quality was as good or better and I usually got a bigger picture on the screen just plugging directly into the TV. Now it's true that I did not try experimenting with many of the filters and settings on the Framemeister too much because I was just doing a quick check and making sure that it worked. And the Framemeister has alot of settings to play with! And I suppose some could argue that the Framemeister was producing less input lag, but the Vizio has a game setting and I've never noticed lag while playing. My regret about the Vizio was that it only had composite inputs but not S-Video, which the Framemeister does.
I was kinda bummed about all this, so I pulled out my Retron 5 and did a comparison using it versus the other two methods. I had never done a comparison with it before and holy smokes, it just blew everything else away. The Retron 5 unquestionably gave me the best picture. It was so lopsided that I immediately order another Retron 5 to have as a backup unit. I was that impressed!
Now I know that the Retron 5 is simply emulating the games and the Framemeister can be used for alot more consoles than the Retron 5 can emulate, but if I were playing games that the Retron 5 could play. I would use it!
Now the one odd thing that the Framemeister really impressed me with was when using it with PAL PS1 and PS2 consoles. The Framemeister acts as a video converter and produced a much better picture than the converter that I was previously using. And I have enough PAL games to be happy enough with it for that alone.
So it's been a month now and I purchased an Analogue Nt system but haven't gotten around to using it for a comparison. Of course it's limited to just SNES. I've been buying special custom made "luma sync?" scart cables to use with the euro scart to rgb mini adapter for every console I have that does scart. Haven't had the chance to try any of those and they aren't cheap either!
So I guess I have a solution if future TV's do not offer composite or component connections. I can use the Framemeister to hook up my old consoles. I would hope there are cheaper options in the future, but at the time of my purchase there wasn't any that anyone would recommend.
So is it worth it? All I can really say is that it's expensive. Very expensive.

Have you tried hooking using the RGB adapter/scart cables through the Framemeister? game system>scart cables>scart rgb adapter>component cables>framemeister>hdmi output. Is this your setup or are you doing composite to framemeister?
I did a quick search about the Retron 5 and it looks like it has some type of upconverter built into it. Im wondering if the Retron 5 has the same RGB output through HDMI that you would otherwise have to use the RGB/scart converter for with the retro systems. I dont know, but if your are not getting the RGB signal through the retron 5 output then the scart>framemiester would be the clear winner.



The upcoming $100 RetroTink 2X will upconvert composite, s-video, and YPbPr to 480p HDMI output.

http://www.retrotink.com/#Products
This looks like a good solution. 100$ vs 400$ framemeister.

[Spartacus]

Have you tried hooking using the RGB adapter/scart cables through the Framemeister? game system>scart cables>scart rgb adapter>component cables>framemeister>hdmi output. Is this your setup or are you doing composite to framemeister?

I haven't tried the Scart cables yet. I simply tested using composite (Red,White,Yellow) cables.
The test was console to composite to Framemaister to HMDI to TV versus console to composite to TV using the TV's composite inputs.
I had just dropped $400 on the Framemeister and I was expecting a noticeable improvement versus just plugging my console directly into the TV. I didn't see any noticeable improvement except for PAL PS1 and PS2 consoles.

Perhaps switching from composite to Scart cables will show a dramatic improvement, but think of the cost. You drop $400 on the Framemester and now you are buying Scart cables for all the consoles that will do Scart. Do you buy cheap $8 cables made in China or do you splurge for custom Scart cables specifically made to appeal to people who own the Framemeister.
Like I said, it's very expensive.

[bb_hood]

I haven't tried the Scart cables yet. I simply tested using composite (Red,White,Yellow) cables.
The test was console to composite to Framemaister to HMDI to TV versus console to composite to TV using the TV's composite inputs.
I had just dropped $400 on the Framemeister and I was expecting a noticeable improvement versus just plugging my console directly into the TV. I didn't see any noticeable improvement except for PAL PS1 and PS2 consoles.

Perhaps switching from composite to Scart cables will show a dramatic improvement, but think of the cost. You drop $400 on the Framemester and now you are buying Scart cables for all the consoles that will do Scart. Do you buy cheap $8 cables made in China or do you splurge for custom Scart cables specifically made to appeal to people who own the Framemeister.
Like I said, it's very expensive.

Well RGB/component is a significant upgrade to signal quality over composite. RGB looks much better than composite. If all you need are the cables its gonna be worth it to invest in them.
My scart cables all cost 15-20$ each; snes/genesis/saturn/dreamcast/ps1/ps2 etc.. I dont know what makes the custom framemeister cables potentially better.
Its expensive I know; system mods, cables, conversion boxes. It does add up fast.

[Tron 2.0]

Why on earth are you using coax for SNES? I would upgrade to composite at least and many composite cables include S-Video, which is even better if your TV will support it.



I just bought a Micomsoft Framemeister Mini a month ago and I'll share my experience. I paid pretty close to $400 for it brand new and the seller was kind enough to update the firmware, give me an English overlay for the remote and a euro scart to rgb mini adapter. So having no scart cables for any of my consoles, I used what I had on hand - composite cables and began testing with the various consoles I had in my home. Long story short, my cheap Walmart Vizio tv produced a better picture using the TV's composite inputs than I got using the Framemeister's composite to HDMI. The picture quality was as good or better and I usually got a bigger picture on the screen just plugging directly into the TV. Now it's true that I did not try experimenting with many of the filters and settings on the Framemeister too much because I was just doing a quick check and making sure that it worked. And the Framemeister has alot of settings to play with! And I suppose some could argue that the Framemeister was producing less input lag, but the Vizio has a game setting and I've never noticed lag while playing. My regret about the Vizio was that it only had composite inputs but not S-Video, which the Framemeister does.
I was kinda bummed about all this, so I pulled out my Retron 5 and did a comparison using it versus the other two methods. I had never done a comparison with it before and holy smokes, it just blew everything else away. The Retron 5 unquestionably gave me the best picture. It was so lopsided that I immediately order another Retron 5 to have as a backup unit. I was that impressed!
Now I know that the Retron 5 is simply emulating the games and the Framemeister can be used for alot more consoles than the Retron 5 can emulate, but if I were playing games that the Retron 5 could play. I would use it!
Now the one odd thing that the Framemeister really impressed me with was when using it with PAL PS1 and PS2 consoles. The Framemeister acts as a video converter and produced a much better picture than the converter that I was previously using. And I have enough PAL games to be happy enough with it for that alone.
So it's been a month now and I purchased an Analogue Nt system but haven't gotten around to using it for a comparison. Of course it's limited to just SNES. I've been buying special custom made "luma sync?" scart cables to use with the euro scart to rgb mini adapter for every console I have that does scart. Haven't had the chance to try any of those and they aren't cheap either!
So I guess I have a solution if future TV's do not offer composite or component connections. I can use the Framemeister to hook up my old consoles. I would hope there are cheaper options in the future, but at the time of my purchase there wasn't any that anyone would recommend.
So is it worth it? All I can really say is that it's expensive. Very expensive.
Far as price goes the OSSC is $200.00 a framemeister $300.00 to $400.00.Though as of late any time i hear a comparison OSSC wins out in some areas.While stock is being sold for the framemeister still it has been discontinue,i wouldn't be surprise if micomsoft comes out with a newer model they do it all the time with upscalers.

[Greg2600]

Framemeister is meant for RGB signals, not composite. It does little on those. Frankly I think it's unnecessary at that price. There are plenty of SCART to HDMI adapters on Amazon that do just fine a job. HD Retrovision are also developing an HDMI device, though it's a ways away.

[gbpxl]

Framemeister is meant for RGB signals, not composite. It does little on those. Frankly I think it's unnecessary at that price. There are plenty of SCART to HDMI adapters on Amazon that do just fine a job. HD Retrovision are also developing an HDMI device, though it's a ways away.
Wrong. Framemeister is meant for composite, S, and RGB. And if your setup dictates that you want to use the original cables that were packaged with the system, but want to play it on the only TV you have in your house, converting the 240p signal of composite to 720p or higher via the Framemeister is the best way to go.

If I do play my SNES on my LED, I hook it up via RGB to Framemeister scaled to 720p with scanlines. There is minimal lag and it looks absolutely beautiful. mileage may vary. for me it's the only way to go, though

someone mentioned coax earlier. It's not an entirely worthless cable. TurboGrafx16 only used coax an unmodded console, and as far as lag, I have to imagine running straight coax to a CRT will produce the least amount of lag physically possible, and the picture quality is good enough to play the game.

[Greg2600]

Anyone buying a Framemeister to upconvert composite/S-video are wasting their money. With RGB the thing is fantastic, but it's now out of date and before long there will be alternatives for 1/4 the price.

[Bratwurst]

Anyone buying a Framemeister to upconvert composite/S-video are wasting their money. With RGB the thing is fantastic, but it's now out of date and before long there will be alternatives for 1/4 the price.

S-Video really is about 95% as good as RGB and the tradeoff is you're not spending hundreds of dollars in custom built cabling. And I say that having personally fabricated RGB scart cables for all of my systems, with hacked-in scart inputs on some CRT televisions. When the market for the Mini collapses with future alternatives, which we're already seeing with the OSSC, I might look into grabbing a used one. It could serve as a budget minded solution in that respect. The advantages are there, it's well documented, a ton of profiles have been made available and it's perhaps the most compatible & simplest to setup.

The only thing that has me wary is the build quality doesn't seem to be the best, I've read way too many forum posts of people complaining of their Minis dying on them. That and the input lag, though I didn't really notice it when I played games at a friend's house over a weekend.

[Greg2600]

Good point on S-Video. As for build quality, well, I myself use switchboxes (SCART) or intermediary connectors, so I'm never really yanking cables from my upscaler. That plus it's a real pain to get into the back of it. If the AC Adapter fails, there are probably alternatives easy to find. However, my device (DVDO) had the remote die on me, and those are impossible to replace cheaply. However, I don't go crazy with settings and profiles, and I never notice lag. I'm just not that picky.

[Cornelius]

Above there was some mention of SNES and S-video. It has been my experience that most of the aftermarket S-video cables for the system, especially those that do composite as well, are pretty terrible. I think there were almost graphics artifacts or wierd repeating lines, but I don't remember all that clearly.

[Spartacus]

So I started thinking today about why the Framemeister didn't really look any better on my old HD TV when it dawned on me that my TV has composite inputs and supports 240p. I checked online and came to the conclusion that today's HD TV's have merged the component and composite inputs together and no longer display 240p. So that's why a Framemeister having composite inputs is a plus, because newer TV don't have composite inputs and don't display the 240p output of retro consoles. The half priced OSSC doesn't support composite inputs either. So for anyone who doesn't care to buy a bunch of SCART cables, the Framemeister is a simple solution to playing 240p retro consoles on a modern HD TV.
I've already stashed a few old CRT TV's for retro gaming and now I'm thinking of finding a couple of older cheap HD TV's that will still play retro consoles natively and stash a couple of those away too. Never hurts to have plenty of cheap backup options.

[gbpxl]

when I go NES/SNES/N64/Genesis to composite to HDTV, the image is actually kinda shaky almost. very strange.

[billcosbymon]

Framemeister definitely. I dunno why the dude above would buy one and then just use composite, seems kinda stupid unless you're using an NES that hasn't been RGB modded.

[eskobar]

If you bought a Framemeister and only use composite video you can re-sell it and ask for opinions on the cheap upscanners sold on amazon, a decade ago I bought a few Chinese upscanner that was very cheap but the video quality was more than acceptable.


Micomsoft hardware should be used with RBG to really justify the cost.

[Greg2600]

That was my point, using it mainly to improve composite/s-video is not worth the money.

[WulfeLuer]

Why on earth are you using coax for SNES? I would upgrade to composite at least and many composite cables include S-Video, which is even better if your TV will support it.

The main reason I used coax was that the previous tv only had two sets of RCA inputs that were taken up by a PS3 (back inputs) and either a PS2 or a 360 (front inputs) so I was already sick of popping cables constantly plus the SNES I purchased came with the old RF adapter so I just plugged it in and decided not to care. I already plan to get a different input since the flatscreen is much easier for me to work with physically (that CRT was a beast, far and away the heaviest tv I ever handled) and I can actually get at back inputs without trying the break the stand.

In all honesty, the whole thing was not something I had planned, some crap happened in my personal life and I came out the other side with some stuff that I wasn't planning on acquiring for a while yet but couldn't turn away since it was free and I felt I earned it for my troubles, but the upside is that I didn't plan all this out and learn what I needed to know before I swapped tvs and the 'old' tv did not survive the process (nothing deliberate, the thing decided that it wanted to jump off the dolly I wound up using to move it something like three times, even with straps). So I'm mostly feeling around in the dark like an idiot.