EmuParadise has removed its entire library of retro game ROMs and ISOs

[parallaxscroll]

https://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/2018/08/08/emuparadise-has-removed-its-entire-library-of-roms-and-isos/



For nearly two decades, EmuParadise has been the go-to place for quite a number of people in the emulation community. This is due to the site’s vast collection of ROMs and ISOs from many systems, dating all the way back from the Atari and NES eras, straight up to the Wii and PSP. But, things are different now.

The site’s creator recently put out an announcement on a website, titled “EmuParadise is Changing”. This announcement contained an explanation — the site will no longer host any games. Here’s an excerpt:

“It’s not worth it for us to risk potentially disastrous consequences. I cannot in good conscience risk the futures of our team members who have contributed to the site through the years. We run EmuParadise for the love of retro games and for you to be able to revisit those good times. Unfortunately, it’s not possible right now to do so in a way that makes everyone happy and keeps us out of trouble . . . . . You won’t be able to get your games from here for now. Where we go with this is up to us and up to you.”


This news comes just a few weeks after Nintendo slapped a massive $100 million lawsuit against the owner of LoveROMS and LoveRETRO. These websites were very similar to EmuParadise, hosting a vast collection of retro games and emulators. Mere hours after the lawsuit was filed, both websites were taken offline. Interestingly enough, many responses from the community to the closure of these sites pointed to EmuParadise still being around as another trustworthy source of games. Obviously, that claim no longer applies. In addition to the fall of LoveROMS and LoveRETRO, Nintendo then had an online GameBoy Advance Emulator removed from GitHub.

It must be noted that EmuParadise’s announcement does not specifically denounce Nintendo as being a/the reason for the removal of all the games from the site, But, it has had run-ins with the Big N in the past. Back in June 2017, all of Nintendo’s first-party titles were taken down from EmuParadise’s library. So, taking the two aforementioned recent closures into account on top of last year’s scuffle, it wouldn’t be surprising if Nintendo does have a role to play in this announcement after all, but EmuParadise has yet to name any names. The fact of the matter is, the site was in violation of copyright laws. So, whoever forced the site to make this drastic move did have the legal grounds to do so, especially since EmuParadise was benefiting financially from hosting its library due to selling ad space.

Will this kill the emulation scene? Not exactly. Other sources still exist. However, this is a crippling blow nonetheless. EmuParadise was known not just for having a vast collection of games, but also being a safe source due to many other ROM/ISO sites being riddled with evasive ads and viruses. So, many in the community are going to have to find somewhere else to get their games if they’re still willing to make the effort.

I'm not shocked, but it was kinda surprising to find out this actually happened with Emuparadise.

[Greg2600]

At this point I normally just download the occasional DC/PS2/XBOX/GCN ISO, but I expect those will be next to impossible to find soon.

[parallaxscroll]

Retro game repository EmuParadise says it’s finished distributing ROMs

https://venturebeat.com/2018/08/08/retro-game-repository-emuparadise-says-its-finished-distributing-roms/



“We will continue to be passionate retro gamers and will keep doing cool stuff around retro games, but you won’t be able to get your games from here for now,” reads an EmuParadise blog post. “Where we go with this is up to us and up to you.”

If you search EmuParadise’s library for games now, you’ll find that the site has already scrubbed away most of them for every system. WarioWare for the Game Boy Advance is gone, but so is Blackthorne for the 32X.


As someone who has used EmuParadise and purchased retro games directly from Nintendo, I’m sad about this development. It was nice to know that if I ever wanted to try a game out for research or just because I felt like it, EmuParadise provided a way to do so. It was reliable and safe, and now I’m left wondering how I’ll track down some of the lesser known games.

[Tron 2.0]

There will be other sites but it's a shame emuparadise is a bust now for roms.I use to visit there site allot when i needed roms for snes&genesis to be put on my everdrive.Still i wouldn't be surprise if emu seen what,nintendo did to loveretro&loveroms and decided to get out asap.

[bb_hood]

what,nintendo did to loveretro&loveroms

um.. what did nintendo do to loveretro&loveroms?

Also, when downloading roms, download via torrent is the way to go.

[fluid_matrix]

um.. what did nintendo do to loveretro&loveroms?

Also, when downloading roms, download via torrent is the way to go.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/nintendo-loveroms-lawsuit

Emuparadise was always a go-to when I wanted individual roms, but yea, torrent is the way to go to get full sets. In all honestly, I was just on EP the other night to find a few N64 roms to keep me busy while I've been sick in bed and got tired of watching tv and yt. Sad to see them go.

[jb143]

I'm kind of surprised it took this long. I guess I always assumed the servers were in some country out of Nintendo's reach or something. I wonder if all the Retro Pi consoles flooding craigslist had anything to do with pushing Nintendo to take action. Not that the guys building those don't already have all complete sets of all the roms for every system.

[Tron 2.0]

um.. what did nintendo do to loveretro&loveroms?

Also, when downloading roms, download via torrent is the way to go.
They filed a cease and deist to them they pretty much gonna sue them.For down loading roms i can definitely see this happening more for going the torrent route.

[DeputyMoniker]

They filed a cease and deist to them they pretty much gonna sue them.For down loading roms i can definitely see this happening more for going the torrent route.

Even worse. They actually filed a law suit. Same for EP.

[eskobar]

To be honest, it's great that this site stopped illegal distribution of ROMs. We are just very used to download a ROM without contributing to the developer and we feel that this is perfectly legal or that we have some right in purpose of "investigation".

I know, classic games should be preserved and most publishers don't care or can't justify an investment on old IP on digital stores or remakes, but that is another subject. It's hard to get that elusive copy of a very rare game, but i you don't get to play a game is not a matter of life or death, we can live without playing every game ever made and getting a physical copy of a very rare or special game be more interesting.

[Mad-Mike]

The reason you download without contributing to the developer is because the developer fails to offer a version of that product that works on current hardware and offers the same experience. That's been one of my thoughts since I started doing collecting in the mid-late 1990's.

Heck, they won't even do what the music industry USED to do. Which was that every decade they would have some new medium that takes off and here you are, re-buying The Beatle's Rubber Soul for the 4th time on CD because your Cassette Player just died, and might as well get on the bandwagon. But the thing is music is pretty universal across it's formats - it does not have a computer-code issue to deal with like consoles do, one that requires emulation or even just wiring the same darn hardware from the previous into the current.

Admittedly, Nintendo has been better than most about it so I'm not sure why people bash them so much over it. I remember when I bought my first SNES on my birthday in 1992 - Super Mario All-Stars was being offered free with the purchase of the system - I was one of the first people to get a copy. I remember 2 distinct things about it - 1.) The play experience was totally different. Adding savegames to SMB 3 changed the challenge level, and certain things were changed to make the games easier in some ways. 2.) Sometimes I want to play the 8-bit variation with it's old blocky graphics, no save, no ability to rack up an entire palette full of power-ups. When I bought my Wii, I bought several games on the virtual console that I already owned for my NES on the original cartridges, and had for years. I have no problem paying for stuff.

My only issue with Nintendo is with their SELECTION. It's always the same 144 games every time, and out of all of those, Dragon Warrior is not one of them, and I loved those old Chunsoft programmed 8-bit Dragon Warrior titles. Sure they are probably not cannon now since I know they are a localized version of Dragon Quest, but I like them. So where do I buy them? Well, I can buy the carts, which aside from I & III that I have, II & IV are hard to find, IV costs almost $150.00 at some places which is ridiculous for a 25 year old video game. So I turn to ROMS, lucky for me I downloaded all my ROMS way way back in the day and have just kept them backed up ever since. Even have the old bad 1MB Dump of DW4 for my 486 running Nesticle, because somehow I'm nostalgic for the old emulators sometimes too.

But the Classic Consoles are a good move. But not good enough. The problem I have with those is they feel a little crass, like those Jaks Pacific controllers I got into a habit of using for a time, and thusly, feel a tad overpriced to me.

I always had the idea of reissuing hardware as it was, but with the enhancements so many of us pay to have to hook them up to modern televisions. The Classics do this, Retrons do this, always thought with Atari, rather than the Ataribox they should have put out a reissue 2600 that looks and plays like an old Atari 2600 from the early 80's, and then, maybe offered some games ON it, AND a way to connect a cart and play your old games, maybe even offer some new games on carts.....that's what hte Guitar Manufacturers do. You want a 1957 Fender Stratocaster, but can't afford the $54,000 original, so you go to your local guitar shop and buy a Japanese, Mexican, or Chinese reissue of a 1957 Fender Stratocaster. It looks like a 1957 Fender Stratoacaster, it may even PLAY like one and sound like one, but once you get into the nuts and bolts - it has the modern five-way pickup selector switch offering all the MODERN pickup combos of a strat, instead of the 3-way switch that offers just each pickup by itself as it was in the 1950's, you have a bridge that looks old but had modern tooling so the tuning is more stable, you have a modern backplate that makes restrining easier. But to the average person, it's still a very close approximation of the vintage 54' Stratocaster without the price tag or the setbacks. Sure it's not almost 70 year old hardwoods and aged pickups - but a lot of that is snobbery crap that has no use anywhere TBH. I think the same could be done with any major console from the old eras. We have SOC solutions for the NES and even the PC - I even think some company should try and come out with a modern-486 retro-DOS machine based off the ZF Micro Devices ZFx86 chip - it'd be PERFECT! And just slap it into what looks like an old AT Keyboard with HDMI and a SDCARD/USB/whatever and were golden!

But when it comes to Nintendo, I know a part of why they are doing this is I think they have some kind of redistribution thing planned for their 144 old original titles, likely online, I'm wondering if someone from Nintendo is taking note from the music industry and is hoping that "streaming" old games will be a big thing. I would not be surprised if a lot of the online-emulator sites get shut down as well.

[eskobar]

The reason you download without contributing to the developer is because the developer fails to offer a version of that product that works on current hardware and offers the same experience. That's been one of my thoughts since I started doing collecting in the mid-late 1990's.

Heck, they won't even do what the music industry USED to do. Which was that every decade they would have some new medium that takes off and here you are, re-buying The Beatle's Rubber Soul for the 4th time on CD because your Cassette Player just died, and might as well get on the bandwagon. But the thing is music is pretty universal across it's formats - it does not have a computer-code issue to deal with like consoles do, one that requires emulation or even just wiring the same darn hardware from the previous into the current.

Admittedly, Nintendo has been better than most about it so I'm not sure why people bash them so much over it. I remember when I bought my first SNES on my birthday in 1992 - Super Mario All-Stars was being offered free with the purchase of the system - I was one of the first people to get a copy. I remember 2 distinct things about it - 1.) The play experience was totally different. Adding savegames to SMB 3 changed the challenge level, and certain things were changed to make the games easier in some ways. 2.) Sometimes I want to play the 8-bit variation with it's old blocky graphics, no save, no ability to rack up an entire palette full of power-ups. When I bought my Wii, I bought several games on the virtual console that I already owned for my NES on the original cartridges, and had for years. I have no problem paying for stuff.

My only issue with Nintendo is with their SELECTION. It's always the same 144 games every time, and out of all of those, Dragon Warrior is not one of them, and I loved those old Chunsoft programmed 8-bit Dragon Warrior titles. Sure they are probably not cannon now since I know they are a localized version of Dragon Quest, but I like them. So where do I buy them? Well, I can buy the carts, which aside from I & III that I have, II & IV are hard to find, IV costs almost $150.00 at some places which is ridiculous for a 25 year old video game. So I turn to ROMS, lucky for me I downloaded all my ROMS way way back in the day and have just kept them backed up ever since. Even have the old bad 1MB Dump of DW4 for my 486 running Nesticle, because somehow I'm nostalgic for the old emulators sometimes too.

But the Classic Consoles are a good move. But not good enough. The problem I have with those is they feel a little crass, like those Jaks Pacific controllers I got into a habit of using for a time, and thusly, feel a tad overpriced to me.

I always had the idea of reissuing hardware as it was, but with the enhancements so many of us pay to have to hook them up to modern televisions. The Classics do this, Retrons do this, always thought with Atari, rather than the Ataribox they should have put out a reissue 2600 that looks and plays like an old Atari 2600 from the early 80's, and then, maybe offered some games ON it, AND a way to connect a cart and play your old games, maybe even offer some new games on carts.....that's what hte Guitar Manufacturers do. You want a 1957 Fender Stratocaster, but can't afford the $54,000 original, so you go to your local guitar shop and buy a Japanese, Mexican, or Chinese reissue of a 1957 Fender Stratocaster. It looks like a 1957 Fender Stratoacaster, it may even PLAY like one and sound like one, but once you get into the nuts and bolts - it has the modern five-way pickup selector switch offering all the MODERN pickup combos of a strat, instead of the 3-way switch that offers just each pickup by itself as it was in the 1950's, you have a bridge that looks old but had modern tooling so the tuning is more stable, you have a modern backplate that makes restrining easier. But to the average person, it's still a very close approximation of the vintage 54' Stratocaster without the price tag or the setbacks. Sure it's not almost 70 year old hardwoods and aged pickups - but a lot of that is snobbery crap that has no use anywhere TBH. I think the same could be done with any major console from the old eras. We have SOC solutions for the NES and even the PC - I even think some company should try and come out with a modern-486 retro-DOS machine based off the ZF Micro Devices ZFx86 chip - it'd be PERFECT! And just slap it into what looks like an old AT Keyboard with HDMI and a SDCARD/USB/whatever and were golden!

But when it comes to Nintendo, I know a part of why they are doing this is I think they have some kind of redistribution thing planned for their 144 old original titles, likely online, I'm wondering if someone from Nintendo is taking note from the music industry and is hoping that "streaming" old games will be a big thing. I would not be surprised if a lot of the online-emulator sites get shut down as well.

Mike, I know how you feel, bro; many of us do, but that is not a reason to stole IP from a creator. Too many people are creating libraries, programs, games, etc. with an open license to use and modify as you like, but classic games are not.

It's not easy to invest in creating a modern version of a games or in some cases they cannot justify the investment of re-releasing a classic game on digital platforms and people don't care if a company goes out of business ... but most do care if they cannot play one of its old games or if they don't update/release it for modern consoles. That's the duality in all of us.

If you really like gaming, support living developers and efforts you like ... and if you don't like the actual products on the market, support the classic official re-releases, Dragon Quest was released on Android and iOS, you could try that if you like classic games, and you can support Dragon Quest XI, its basically the same old great gameplay.

I don't condemn anyone that uses illegal ROMs, I am not an owner of the IP, but for me, I have strict rules of what I want to do with my gaming habits.

[bb_hood]

I think the roms/emulators should be shared and enjoyed freely. I think it becomes a problem when people start making money off them.

[jb143]

I think the roms/emulators should be shared and enjoyed freely. I think it becomes a problem when people start making money off them.

But the the rom sites do make money off of them... in the form of ad revenue.

[bb_hood]

But the the rom sites do make money off of them... in the form of ad revenue.

exactly

[bb_hood]

https://torrentfreak.com/images/nintendo-loveroms.pdf

Wow so I read the lawsuit and Nintendo is seriously pissed, is suing the defendant on many charges, and is looking for some $$$$$$$$.
Jacob Mathias, the single owner of the website is seriously screwed.
Nintendo is seeking damages for every rom that he hosted, as well as damages for using artwork (like the cover of the Super Mario 3 box).
According to the law, there can be damages of up to 150,000$ for each infringement of copyrighted work, and he hosted thousands of roms.

And thats not even counting all the profits he made from hosting. Everything he has made on his websites has to be turned over to nintendo.
Nintendo is demanding all of his profit/loss statements, donations, all his finacial records.

Nintendo wants all of the defendant's unauthorized copies to be seized and delivered to nintendo for inspection; which is prob all his computer stuff.

And even after all this Nintendo expects Jacob Mathias to cover all of Nintendo's legal costs.

Unbelievable.

[Niku-Sama]

just remember roms do have a legal place in the world

[Greg2600]

Many years ago, it was common for rom sites to open and close in quite a short period of time. That's back when nothing bigger than SNES or Genesis files were up. The depositories required bandwidth, and that meant money. With ISO's being store, I can't even imagine the hosting costs these sites incurred in the past. As a result, they began having ads to recoup. I have to assume that grew to the point where the hosting party may have been profiting substantially. That said, good grief the LoveROMS owners were IDIOTS. I hadn't used it in years because it was full of click bait and other muck, but their design literally looks like something Nintendo created. Fools.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bjbped/nintendos-offensive-tragic-and-totally-legal-erasure-of-rom-sites

This is a wonderful article with ample evidence that today's game publishers, including Nintendo, have actually PROFITED world-wide as a result of emulation and rom distribution.

[Tron 2.0]

Even worse. They actually filed a law suit. Same for EP.
News to me i haven't heard nintendo was going to.I just thought EP was getting out while the getting was good.

[DeputyMoniker]

News to me i haven't heard nintendo was going to.I just thought EP was getting out while the getting was good.

https://torrentfreak.com/images/nintendo-loveroms.pdf

You may be right about Emuparadise. The articles I read said N was already suing them. New articles are saying they didn't.

[Aussie2B]

today's game publishers, including Nintendo, have actually PROFITED world-wide as a result of emulation and rom distribution.

Maybe if you average everything out that's true, but there are also plenty of niche developers/publishers who have had to shut down because piracy hurt them so bad. Action games and other such games with a lot of replay value may benefit from ROMs/ISOs if people are using them to "try before you buy", but with genres that people don't tend to replay, like visual novels, most will not bother to buy an official releases after they've played through it illegally. This is also reflected in how many games are passed for localization when a fan patch exists. The publishers know that will eat into their potential sales. Hell, even full Let's Play series hurt the sales of story-focused games. This is mirrored in other industries too, like how there are tons of people who blow through manga scanlations with a voracious appetite and never bother to buy an official localization of anything they've already read.

[bb_hood]

With ISO's being store, I can't even imagine the hosting costs these sites incurred in the past. As a result, they began having ads to recoup. I have to assume that grew to the point where the hosting party may have been profiting substantially. That said, good grief the LoveROMS owners were IDIOTS.

The LoveRoms website was receiving 17 million visitors each month at the time it was closed, and had been operating for at least 3 years. The owner was asking for donations as well. I think its fair to assume that the single site owner had a pretty good racket going. That much traffic, it was only a matter of time before everything would just blow up in the owner's face. He ran a public website that blatantly infringed on Nintendo's IPs millions of times. Its like, you cant break the law millions of times while attracting alot of attention and making lots of money and expect nothing negative to happen. So yeah, hes a huge moron, and hes totally screwed.

Regarding EmuParadise, I guess we gotta just wait and see. They very well could get sued, they are obviously as guilty as LoveRoms is. Nintendo might just be making 'an example' out of LoveRoms, but they also might have many other lawsuits ready to be filed against other rom/emulation site owners.

[Greg2600]

Maybe if you average everything out that's true, but there are also plenty of niche developers/publishers who have had to shut down because piracy hurt them so bad. Action games and other such games with a lot of replay value may benefit from ROMs/ISOs if people are using them to "try before you buy", but with genres that people don't tend to replay, like visual novels, most will not bother to buy an official releases after they've played through it illegally. This is also reflected in how many games are passed for localization when a fan patch exists. The publishers know that will eat into their potential sales. Hell, even full Let's Play series hurt the sales of story-focused games. This is mirrored in other industries too, like how there are tons of people who blow through manga scanlations with a voracious appetite and never bother to buy an official localization of anything they've already read.

Well, sites hosting games from active consoles are simply asking to be sued. One has to assume that LOVEroms simply didn't heed the C&D's from Nintendo, and this is what it's come to. My point on the benefiting was in the Vice article. You had programmers who were inspired and even learned via emulation, not to mention current fans who couldn't afford many games. Plus you have many publishers and sites like GOG making money based on open source emulation that was only possible through piracy of games, of course.

As for EmuParadise, ehhh, I find their move to be strange. They've been on-line for 18 years, and no one outside of Nintendo cares. Are French Atari, slimey Cardillo's "Coleco", or Tommy Tallarico INTV going to start sending C&D letters, I doubt it? Hell even Sony doesn't seem to care. We know SEGA won't lift a finger. Had they just removed Nintendo first party stuff, would have been fine.

[Aussie2B]

Perhaps they would've been fine, but that just goes to show that none of these ROM/ISO hosts that claim to just be preservationists have a leg to stand on. If they really wanted to be respectable, and also keep out of trouble, they'd 1) never profit from other people's work that they have no legal right to host and distribute, and 2) make sure they aren't hosting a single game that's available on the current market. Even if it's a retro game, if it can still be bought legally via Virtual Console, PSN, Steam, etc., then they absolutely shouldn't be hosting it. But going back to issue #1, they probably realize if they remove all the big-name games that Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, etc. are still selling, then they'd likely see a lot less traffic and in turn make less money.

[bb_hood]

If they really wanted to be respectable, and also keep out of trouble, they'd 1) never profit from other people's work that they have no legal right to host and distribute,

This.



As for EmuParadise, ehhh, I find their move to be strange. They've been on-line for 18 years,

Well, LoveRoms just got sued for potentially millions/billions of dollars for doing the exact same thing... so the VERY least EmuParadise should do is shut down.

[Greg2600]

They were sued by Nintendo, who can't file suit on behalf of Atari or Sega or Microsoft. That was my point. Just remove the Nintendo stuff.

[bb_hood]

They were sued by Nintendo, who can't file suit on behalf of Atari or Sega or Microsoft. That was my point. Just remove the Nintendo stuff.

Ok i see. But still, how long did EmuParadise operate? 18 years? All during which Im sure people thought that 'Nintendo simply does not care that we freely share their IPs', until one day we see Nintendo file this huge lawsuit against one guy.
If Nintendo can sue, so can Sony, Atari, Sega. Its always gonna seem like "They dont care" until the lawsuits come.

[Tupin]

Man, it sure is great that Nintendo offers a current service where I can easily download all/a majority of their retro libraries for a reasonable price, own them forever, and have up-to-date emulation! Oh, wait.

[Greg2600]

Ok i see. But still, how long did EmuParadise operate? 18 years? All during which Im sure people thought that 'Nintendo simply does not care that we freely share their IPs', until one day we see Nintendo file this huge lawsuit against one guy.
If Nintendo can sue, so can Sony, Atari, Sega. Its always gonna seem like "They dont care" until the lawsuits come.

I understand, and like I said, I think they went further than they had to. Nintendo is simply super litigious. I mean, let's not forget them going after Let's Play youtube videos. Plus, as the VICE writer mentioned, their "Netflix" style retro component for the Switch is due out, so they want people using that. Fine, but as the author also points out, there are tons of games that Nintendo will never make available. Anything with a Hollywood license is basically DOA.

[gbpxl]

Copyright infringement is inethical, immoral, and illegal. Anyone who has ever had their work stolen from them understands this concept.

[Pr3tty F1y]

Copyright infringement is inethical, immoral, and illegal. Anyone who has ever had their work stolen from them understands this concept.

True, but games have been preserved through the rom/emulation scene. Bitrot is real. Physical roms and optical disks fall apart. If you have enough people sharing enough copies of game images, these games will survive into the future. If you don't, some will surely be lost forever. Even Nintendo themselves uses roms downloaded from the internet for their Virtual Console games and the like. They're not recompiling the source code or dumping their own carts. The source code likely doesn't even exist for many games and many companies have folded and such assets lost.

I know that the preservation argument is lame when it comes to someone who personally has had their work stolen. Nonetheless, digital media is risky from a historical standpoint and hence why backup copies of old games and other software being shared is important if we want to retain an exact record for future generations.

[Aussie2B]

Man, it sure is great that Nintendo offers a current service where I can easily download all/a majority of their retro libraries for a reasonable price, own them forever, and have up-to-date emulation! Oh, wait.

The majority of the games on most Nintendo systems are third party. Nintendo doesn't own the IPs and doesn't have the legal right to list them for sale. It's also rather unreasonable to expect them to let you own a game forever AND continue to update the emulator. If you've owned something for, say, 10+ years, nobody is under any obligation to keep supporting the service for that product, no different from how my SNES and my games for it are no longer under warranty and I can't expect Nintendo to still offer maintenance service and such for them. I can keep them forever, but I'm on my own with them past a certain point.

[ScourDX]

I kinda curious why Nintendo all of the sudden would go after rom host site. Do they want to crack down on the switch homebrew scene by cutting off the rom site. Nintendo is known for shutting down fan games. A2MR project was shut down because Nintendo did release Samus return for 3ds. Perhaps there is more to this than Nintendo shutting down rom site.

[Tupin]

I kinda curious why Nintendo all of the sudden would go after rom host site. Do they want to crack down on the switch homebrew scene by cutting off the rom site. Nintendo is known for shutting down fan games. A2MR project was shut down because Nintendo did release Samus return for 3ds. Perhaps there is more to this than Nintendo shutting down rom site.
NES/SNES Classics, I would assume.

[Greg2600]

Steal someone's work? Uh, that someone didn't get paid anything more than a salary when he/she created the game! Do you think David Crane gets a royalty when Pitfall! is put on a retail compilation? Or Kojima when a Metal Gear Solid game is remastered and resold by Sony on a new console? No shot. Compensation like this has never really occurred. You see unlike performance arts, video gaming has never unionized. There's no SAG or guild of some kind fighting for them to get a share. No, any value to the IP is held by corporations, most of which did zilch to produce that game. Often they've simply absorbed them from prior owners.

[Steve W]

I liked EmuParadise because you could download entire ROM libraries of cartridge based machines, which was super handy. I can't really do that with anything CD-based, though. And my emulator of choice only takes bin/cue files, which eliminates most of EmuParadise's library. I guess I better start hunting down as many PS1 bin/cue titles as I can before the sites that host them get the axe.

[Aussie2B]

Steal someone's work? Uh, that someone didn't get paid anything more than a salary when he/she created the game! Do you think David Crane gets a royalty when Pitfall! is put on a retail compilation? Or Kojima when a Metal Gear Solid game is remastered and resold by Sony on a new console? No shot. Compensation like this has never really occurred. You see unlike performance arts, video gaming has never unionized. There's no SAG or guild of some kind fighting for them to get a share. No, any value to the IP is held by corporations, most of which did zilch to produce that game. Often they've simply absorbed them from prior owners.

There are union workers in the game industry. Just look at the whole big deal involving voice actors not that long ago.

Even if the individual programmers, graphic designers, etc. aren't getting royalties or some such (and sometimes the big-shots do, like how Koichi Sugiyama owns all of his music in Dragon Quest, so Square Enix can't use it or re-release any of the old games without his approval and compensating him), if piracy hurts a small developer/publisher, they may have to lay people off or keep their salaries stagnant. There are also a lot of freelancers in the industry, so they may not be offered additional gigs or their pay rates might not increase, when the developer/publisher may have used their services more often or offered them a higher pay rate otherwise. Like I was saying before, not everybody in the industry is a mega corporation or working for one. It's like Walmart versus a mom & pop store. You may argue that shoplifting won't hurt the former, but it can definitely hurt the latter, both the business owner(s) and the employees. And publishers deserve credit for games too, not just the specific individuals who make them. If not for the publisher funding a project, the individuals wouldn't have a job, and the game wouldn't get made. So acting like it's a victimless crime because you're not stealing DIRECTLY from one of the game's creators is disingenuous.

Even if we're talking about IPs changing hands and none of the original staff behind a game still working for the current IP holder, the current IP holder still has their current staff to pay, and if the current IP holder is re-releasing those old IPs, then the current staff is working to make those games available on current platforms, providing all the programming, asset creation, marketing, customer support, etc. necessary. I've bought recent ports/remakes like Romancing Saga 2 and Secret of Mana, and I don't know who among their original staffs are still working for Square Enix (obviously not Secret of Mana's artist, who passed away some time ago). But I'm still not about to pirate the SNES/SFC versions of the games instead just because I can't necessarily compensate the original creators. I still appreciate the work Square Enix put in to make the games available on modern platforms, so I want to compensate them for that. And they're one of the aforementioned huge corporations. I all the more want to support tiny publishers, like when I buy games from MangaGamer, a company plagued with piracy.

[fluid_matrix]

I liked EmuParadise because you could download entire ROM libraries of cartridge based machines, which was super handy. I can't really do that with anything CD-based, though. And my emulator of choice only takes bin/cue files, which eliminates most of EmuParadise's library. I guess I better start hunting down as many PS1 bin/cue titles as I can before the sites that host them get the axe.

There are still torrential amounts of places to get full sets of roms.

[gbpxl]

Steal someone's work? Uh, that someone didn't get paid anything more than a salary when he/she created the game! Do you think David Crane gets a royalty when Pitfall! is put on a retail compilation? Or Kojima when a Metal Gear Solid game is remastered and resold by Sony on a new console? No shot. Compensation like this has never really occurred. You see unlike performance arts, video gaming has never unionized. There's no SAG or guild of some kind fighting for them to get a share. No, any value to the IP is held by corporations, most of which did zilch to produce that game. Often they've simply absorbed them from prior owners.
That's like justifying sneaking into the Louvre since Vincent Van Gogh isn't receiving a check every time someone buys a ticket.

[Greg2600]

That's like justifying sneaking into the Louvre since Vincent Van Gogh isn't receiving a check every time someone buys a ticket.

Difference is the Van Gogh is available.


There are union workers in the game industry. Just look at the whole big deal involving voice actors not that long ago.

Even if the individual programmers, graphic designers, etc. aren't getting royalties or some such (and sometimes the big-shots do, like how Koichi Sugiyama owns all of his music in Dragon Quest, so Square Enix can't use it or re-release any of the old games without his approval and compensating him), if piracy hurts a small developer/publisher, they may have to lay people off or keep their salaries stagnant. There are also a lot of freelancers in the industry, so they may not be offered additional gigs or their pay rates might not increase, when the developer/publisher may have used their services more often or offered them a higher pay rate otherwise. Like I was saying before, not everybody in the industry is a mega corporation or working for one. It's like Walmart versus a mom & pop store. You may argue that shoplifting won't hurt the former, but it can definitely hurt the latter, both the business owner(s) and the employees. And publishers deserve credit for games too, not just the specific individuals who make them. If not for the publisher funding a project, the individuals wouldn't have a job, and the game wouldn't get made. So acting like it's a victimless crime because you're not stealing DIRECTLY from one of the game's creators is disingenuous.

Even if we're talking about IPs changing hands and none of the original staff behind a game still working for the current IP holder, the current IP holder still has their current staff to pay, and if the current IP holder is re-releasing those old IPs, then the current staff is working to make those games available on current platforms, providing all the programming, asset creation, marketing, customer support, etc. necessary. I've bought recent ports/remakes like Romancing Saga 2 and Secret of Mana, and I don't know who among their original staffs are still working for Square Enix (obviously not Secret of Mana's artist, who passed away some time ago). But I'm still not about to pirate the SNES/SFC versions of the games instead just because I can't necessarily compensate the original creators. I still appreciate the work Square Enix put in to make the games available on modern platforms, so I want to compensate them for that. And they're one of the aforementioned huge corporations. I all the more want to support tiny publishers, like when I buy games from MangaGamer, a company plagued with piracy.

Guys, I already said pirating current games is a no-no, yes that hurts the publishers. However, what I and most have argued is for totally defunct properties and games. The overwhelming majority are not re-released in any form. Even when they are, there's a reason AtGames, GOG, Intellivision Lives, etc. existed. There was a market for fans who don't have the patience or preference for using emulation. Anyone who argues that AtGames is harmed by 2600 games being pirated are simply not realistic. Or GOG harmed by the people who download Maniac Mansion, and haphazardly played it on an Ouya, or a modded 360 or whatever. The vast majority of gamers prefer fully-refinished releases of nostalgia, because they will be plug and play. Yet again, you can't get the stuff, because they're not offered, and probably never will be. Further, come on, The Secret of Mana? Seriously, how many people who even have heard of the game let alone wished to play a remake without sampling the original via emulation? I'm not defending the legality, more the practicality. I know it's infringement, but don't give me a counter argument about lost royalties or harming re-releases, because that's simply not the case.


There are still torrential amounts of places to get full sets of roms.

LOL

[bb_hood]

Guys, I already said pirating current games is a no-no, yes that hurts the publishers. However, what I and most have argued is for totally defunct properties and games. The overwhelming majority are not re-released in any form.

I'm not defending the legality, more the practicality. I know it's infringement, but don't give me a counter argument about lost royalties or harming re-releases, because that's simply not the case.


Yeah I agree. Like with Nintendo NES games, there was a time when they sold on the shelves for 40-70$ each. And that was 30 or so years ago. The companies who produced them made some $$ then everybody moved onto something else. Many if not most games will never be re-released in a 'legit' form; and old cart based games will never be re-released in cart form. At this point people should just enjoy roms/emulators/flashcarts without some major ethical dilemma. Like if you wanted to play a game like Little Samson, what options do you have? Buy a cart for thousands of dollars or just play a rom. Either way, anyone who had anything to do creating the original game gets no support. And its a game that can be completed from start to finish in about an hour. Most nes/oldskool cart games are very small files/small games, so when Nintendo sells u emulated games on the virtual console for 5-20$ apiece its just a ripoff (just keeping it reals). Look at how cheap Steam games are in comparison.

I just hope someday we get that Low G Man collector's edition re-release.

[gbpxl]

Difference is the Van Gogh is available

Wrong. Historic paintings are less available than even the rarest of video games. Even the rarest ROMs i.e. Nintendo World Championsuip, number in the hundreds. If it were really at the point where no one ever bothered to dump the ROM, there would be 1 person out of the hundreds of NWC owners who would be willing to dump it for Nintendo, and the cart owner could get paid by Nintendo to do so.

What I have an issue with is that none of the ROM hosters are paying royalties to the people whose products they are profiting from. Video game brick and mortar stores suffer in part because of the piracy. It also legitimizes the "repro" (counterfeit) carts which I have an even bigger problem with.

[Greg2600]

Wrong. Historic paintings are less available than even the rarest of video games. Even the rarest ROMs i.e. Nintendo World Championsuip, number in the hundreds. If it were really at the point where no one ever bothered to dump the ROM, there would be 1 person out of the hundreds of NWC owners who would be willing to dump it for Nintendo, and the cart owner could get paid by Nintendo to do so.

What I have an issue with is that none of the ROM hosters are paying royalties to the people whose products they are profiting from. Video game brick and mortar stores suffer in part because of the piracy. It also legitimizes the "repro" (counterfeit) carts which I have an even bigger problem with.

First of all, you pay the museum to see what's inside, because it keeps the doors open. It's a non-profit organization, so again, not an appropriate example. As for the hosting sites, technically they should not be making money. Hell, Internet Archive tried to host roms and had issues with Nickle and Diming Nintendo, and they're a non-profit interested in preservation. There's no mechanism for paying royalties, because the publishers haven't created one. The RIAA finally wised up, and did so for music, and now MP3's are almost never downloaded. I don't see that happening for games though.

Brick and mortar? Well, I know for certain that the demand for NES and SNES carts fell off a cliff in the last couple years, after the Classic Mini's were released. Emulation, flash/multi-card's, didn't have much of an effect, but those products sure did. Repro's? Ehhh, that's an infinitesimal niche at this point. Most carts are plenty available and cheaper than what a repro would cost. Again, I already said that sites should not use game artwork and IP to promote themselves. I said they shouldn't be making a giant profit from ads (tough to really police that) over expenses to host. But, my point remains, that if you eliminate rom distribution, it's a BAD thing for the gaming industry as well as the community.

[gbpxl]

it harms the used video game stores because why spend $50 on this game when I can download it (illegally)? I worked at a game store for 9 months. I saw this firsthand.

[parallaxscroll]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3296479/gaming/nintendo-suit-rom-emulation-game-preservation.html


Nintendo's ridiculous war on ROMs threatens gaming history
The emulation community plays a crucial role in preserving gaming's history.



Games need to be preserved
It’s hard to care about Nintendo’s bottom line when the stakes are the entire industry's historical record though—which brings us to the heart of the issue, game preservation.

It’s ironic that a digital industry is so terrible at preserving its history. Digital is forever, right? It’s just 1s and 0s, immutable code, ageless. Archiving film or ancient documents or whatever, the problems are physical—celluloid rotting or catching fire, paper succumbing to moisture or falling apart under harsh lights.

But games? The problem is nobody cared. Or not that nobody cared, but that so few companies cared, and that they continue to not care. The situation’s gotten slightly better in the last decade or so, with remasters and remakes like Crash Bandicoot and Baldur’s Gate II and Homeworld and System Shock reviving classics for a modern audience.

Remasters cost money though, and are (understandably) meant to make money. Thus we get the one-percent—the games so notorious or so beloved they’ll sell a second, a third, or even a fourth time. They're important games, don’t get me wrong. It’s fantastic that Shadow of the Colossus can still resonate with people in 2018 the way it did in 2005. I never would’ve guessed.

It's still a self-selecting history though—like buying one of those “Greatest Hits of the ‘80s” CDs and thinking it’s representative of the era. Left to publishers, we will only get Mario and Skyrim and BioShock and so on.

There’s so much more though—thousands of games, spanning eight console generations and multiple PC platforms, and Nintendo’s actions have endangered all of it. Sure, Nintendo is happy to sell you your fifth copy of Super Mario World or whatever, but what about Shadowrun for the SNES? Tell me where I can buy a legal copy of that. Or how about Secret of Evermore?

Emulation saved these games for decades, and nobody’s stepped up with an alternative. Not Nintendo, not anyone. If emulation persists, it’s because of a failure on the part of the actual rights-holders, not the audience. Movie and music piracy dropped after the advent of Netflix and Spotify. The convenience of GOG.com wooed countless PC pirates, including myself, from downloading what we used to call “abandonware."

But GOG.com still covers a mere sliver, and only PC games for the most part. You won't find old NES or SNES games there—not to mention platforms Nintendo doesn’t control. The company that currently calls itself Atari is happy to put out collections of certain top-tier games, but again it’s the core one percent of “classics” people remember. And what about games for the Vectrex? The TurboGrafx? No corporation is saving those. No corporation is bothering with reissues.

[bb_hood]

it harms the used video game stores because why spend $50 on this game when I can download it (illegally)? I worked at a game store for 9 months. I saw this firsthand.

Honestly why should anyone give a flying fudge about used game stores that try to sell Mario Kart for 70$?



Again, I already said that sites should not use game artwork and IP to promote themselves. I said they shouldn't be making a giant profit from ads (tough to really police that) over expenses to host. But, my point remains, that if you eliminate rom distribution, it's a BAD thing for the gaming industry as well as the community.

Unless you own the IPs you shouldnt be making anything off of ROMs.
At this point you cant really eliminate ROM distribution. Maybe if you flick a switch and turn off every torrent.. no wait you would have to shut down the entire internet.



Even the rarest ROMs i.e. Nintendo World Championsuip, number in the hundreds. If it were really at the point where no one ever bothered to dump the ROM, there would be 1 person out of the hundreds of NWC owners who would be willing to dump it for Nintendo, and the cart owner could get paid by Nintendo to do so.


If I were to make a rarity guide for Nintendo ROMs it would go something like this; on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the rarest) every single rom = rarity of 1.

[jb143]

it harms the used video game stores because why spend $50 on this game when I can download it (illegally)? I worked at a game store for 9 months. I saw this firsthand.

I remember people making this argument years ago when rom sites first started appearing. That hasn't really played out that way though. I recall *someone* recently complaining about the cost of retro games. The thing is, if anything, I'd say that they have fueled the retrogaming trend. Right or wrong, they are part of the culture now. But as that article had to constantly concede, Nintendo was completely in their right here.

Specifically though, I'd say that someone who couldn't justify spending $50 on a used game because they could just download the rom, also wouldn't justify spending $50 on a used game whether there was a rom available or not.

But on the topic of used game stores, I also recall publishers being upset that they didn't get a cut of used game sales.

[jb143]

Sure, Nintendo is happy to sell you your fifth copy of Super Mario World or whatever, but what about Shadowrun for the SNES? Tell me where I can buy a legal copy of that


Ebay?... countless retro game stores?...

[gbpxl]

Honestly why should anyone give a flying fudge about used game stores that try to sell Mario Kart for 70$?

Because in a free market system, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay and the store owners are operating a legitimate business as opposed to these dipshits making a living off of other people's hard work?

in response to everyone else... whatever... I can't win. yeah whatever, make every game free. fuck that whole copyright thing. the games are expensive and screw the legitimate mom and pop stores that are probably gonna go under because I use RetroPi and EverDrive, and screw Nintendo's Virtual Console store- they're rich anyways

it seems the people who hated Metallica for being mad at people for not paying for their music in the early 2000's have decided to turn their attention to video games

[bb_hood]

as opposed to these dipshits making a living off of other people's hard work?



I dont think thats right, that was my main point. There will always be a market for retro games as collectibles, and playing/downloading roms will not affect that.
You can copy and paste the Nintendo world Championship rom a million times and it wont make an original cart any less desirable or less rare.

[jb143]

in response to everyone else... whatever... I can't win. yeah whatever, make every game free. fuck that whole copyright thing. the games are expensive and screw the legitimate mom and pop stores that are probably gonna go under because I use RetroPi and EverDrive, and screw Nintendo's Virtual Console store- they're rich anyways


But see, that's my whole point. People ARE buying the games even though they can get them for free. You said it yourself, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay, so people are paying those prices. Prices are higher than ever. And more people are collecting or getting into collecting than ever.

And the mom and pop stores are selling used games, so it's not like the developers are seeing a dime from those sales either. They too are profiting from other peoples work if you want to look at it that way.

I'm not saying that it's ok or should be legal. I'm just saying that claiming they do nothing but hurt the community is a bit much...and that Nintendo is probably taking things a bit too far since their cease and desist letters usually seem to do the trick. Did those sites just not comply with them for so long that Nintendo decided to make an example of them?

[bb_hood]

Imagine the prices of retro games if ROMS diddnt exist.

[Greg2600]

You're entitled to your thoughts, but still I feel are misguided....


Because in a free market system, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay and the store owners are operating a legitimate business as opposed to these dipshits making a living off of other people's hard work?

in response to everyone else... whatever... I can't win. yeah whatever, make every game free. fuck that whole copyright thing. the games are expensive and screw the legitimate mom and pop stores that are probably gonna go under because I use RetroPi and EverDrive, and screw Nintendo's Virtual Console store- they're rich anyways

it seems the people who hated Metallica for being mad at people for not paying for their music in the early 2000's have decided to turn their attention to video games

Rebuttal literally took the words out of my mouth!


But see, that's my whole point. People ARE buying the games even though they can get them for free. You said it yourself, prices are determined by what people are willing to pay, so people are paying those prices. Prices are higher than ever. And more people are collecting or getting into collecting than ever.

And the mom and pop stores are selling used games, so it's not like the developers are seeing a dime from those sales either. They too are profiting from other peoples work if you want to look at it that way.

I'm not saying that it's ok or should be legal. I'm just saying that claiming they do nothing but hurt the community is a bit much...and that Nintendo is probably taking things a bit too far since their cease and desist letters usually seem to do the trick. Did those sites just not comply with them for so long that Nintendo decided to make an example of them?

....and yes, LOVEroms thumbed its nose at Nintendo for quite awhile and will likely pay the price.

[Gentlegamer]

Now that Mickey Mouse is about to rightfully enter the public domain, it's time to revisit copyright law.

Game programs for depreciated platforms 20+ years old should be in the public domain.

[jb143]

Now that Mickey Mouse is about to rightfully enter the public domain, it's time to revisit copyright law.

Game programs for depreciated platforms 20+ years old should be in the public domain.

Steamboat Willy might enter public domain soon, but not the character of Mickey. Disney would never let that happen. If nothing else, they would claim that the character is a corporate trademark that they could own indefinitely.

But if history tells us anything, copyright law will be revisited and pushed back even further... because of Disney. It's happened a couple times already. 20 years would never happen. Way too short a time frame.

[Greg2600]

Mickey is a Disney trademark, which never expires as long as it used in commerce. Copyrights for games, since they don't usually belong to the author of the game, are good for 95 years I believe.

[Gentlegamer]

Steamboat Willy might enter public domain soon, but not the character of Mickey. Disney would never let that happen. If nothing else, they would claim that the character is a corporate trademark that they could own indefinitely.

Mickey Mouse is entering the public domain. Derivative works based on Steam Boat Willie and Mickey Mouse will be allowed. Trademarks cannot prohibit use of public domain characters or works.

Patents last for 20 years and protect far more valuable information, there's no reason copyright should last much longer than patents, especially when talking about the actual game programming for depreciated platforms.

[jb143]

Mickey Mouse is entering the public domain. Derivative works based on Steam Boat Willie and Mickey Mouse will be allowed. Trademarks cannot prohibit use of public domain characters or works.

Patents last for 20 years and protect far more valuable information, there's no reason copyright should last much longer than patents, especially when talking about the actual game programming for depreciated platforms.

Yeah, no. Greg2600 is right. The characters are trademarked and legally protected for as long as the company uses them. The individual movies will start slipping into the public domain but not the trademarked characters.

So what your suggesting is that after 20 years all intellectual property should become public domain? Anyone should be able to make and sell a Mario game or a Mickey cartoon? Anyone should be allowed to use the Coca-Cola logo on their own products? Anyone should be allowed to make a Starwars or Harry Potter film? 20 years just isn't that long.

And patents are different than copyrights and trademarks. Because they can be more important like you say. Compare a video game character to a life saving drug for example.

[Az]

Yeah, no. Greg2600 is right. The characters are trademarked and legally protected for as long as the company uses them. The individual movies will start slipping into the public domain but not the trademarked characters.

This is correct. Tons and tons of cartoons featuring popular characters have fallen into public domain. That doesn't mean the character itself is PD, just the film.

That's one reason PD cartoon collections always have shit box artwork, they're not allowed to draw the character in an original pose and must use a direct capture of them from the film.

People sometimes think public domain films are all just moldy silent films from the early 1900's. PD films include some Gamera, Godzilla, most of the Warner Bros toon characters.

[InsaneDavid]

While I am totally not endorsing the tons of money changing hands via ad revenue at a site like EmuParadise, I'd rather see Nintendo go after the reproduction cartridge sites and stores that sell unauthorized reproductions first. At least with those it's a straight up, crystal clear, garbage in - garbage out crime with no gray area. In that case it's someone taking the work of someone else, burning a chip, doing a few minutes work, and then boom - "Pay me $$$ for something that isn't mine." Not to mention all the money they make off the people who fan translate games and then distribute the patches for free. In those instances it's both a crime and a middle finger to the romhacking community.

I will never understand why reproductions get a free pass with so many people who otherwise crusade against bootlegs and champion copyright law.

As for EmuParadise, I always though the site was a bit of a mess but some interesting binaries have come around over the years thanks to people in their forums. At this point if you're interested in flashcarts, emulation, romhacking, etc. you should have fairly recent No-Intro or comparable sets archived away somewhere.

[megasdkirby]

The IsoZone is the newest site to stop offering ROMS.

[fluid_matrix]

The IsoZone is the newest site to stop offering ROMS.

I hope that the end consequence of these sites no longer offering rom downloads is that the emulator scene doesn't cease to exist.

[InsaneDavid]

The IsoZone is the newest site to stop offering ROMS.

Now that truly is a loss since so many there were actually ripping and uploading ISO images for archival.

[monkeychemist]

Just curious, what's your stance on games that were Japanese release only. So the only way to play it in English is to have the rom patched in English. Does that change the argument on copyright since it just isn't available in English period?

[bb_hood]

Just curious, what's your stance on games that were Japanese release only. So the only way to play it in English is to have the rom patched in English. Does that change the argument on copyright since it just isn't available in English period?

Well, if you have reservations about playing roms and you dont speak Japanese, then I guess you will never play a large number of awesome games.
For example Sweet Home for Nes/Famicom is one of the greatest games released on the Famicom but not the Nintendo NES. Only way to play it in English is by using ROMs.
You could use an online guide and play a Japanese cart.. but I tried this with other games and its not fun. Doing this just ruins the experience.
Or you could grow a pair and download the friggin rom...

[Az]

At least with those it's a straight up, crystal clear, garbage in - garbage out crime with no gray area.

but...but... they're keeping these games alive by selling me a bootleg when the big ol' mean IP holder just sits on the rights and won't manufacture any more carts. And plus I don't have to endure fair market microagressions from resellers. And having ten zillion bootleg carts means more carts in the wild which preserves the games even longer!

[monkeychemist]

Or you could grow a pair and download the friggin rom...

Hey Hey, I wasn't advocating either way, just saw a lot of hate for downloading roms. Personally, if something isn't available and a group has put effort in translating it for free, then it's fair game

[InsaneDavid]

but...but... they're keeping these games alive by selling me a bootleg when the big ol' mean IP holder just sits on the rights and won't manufacture any more carts. And plus I don't have to endure fair market microagressions from resellers. And having ten zillion bootleg carts means more carts in the wild which preserves the games even longer!

Hehe, and when that argument comes up there's one answer - buy yourself a flashcart and play all you want. Flashcart $$$ goes to people who spend the time and resources to engineer and manufacture a legal (all on its own) product that ultimately falls upon the end user to how they wish utilize them. It's also how most fan translators would prefer their projects be played if on actual hardware.

[Greg2600]

The ISO Zone has been shutting down for months. Retro Zone is the new site.

[bb_hood]

Hey Hey, I wasn't advocating either way, just saw a lot of hate for downloading roms.

Yeah i know, I wasnt talking about you but about downloading roms in general

[InsaneDavid]

The ISO Zone has been shutting down for months. Retro Zone is the new site.

I'm aware of this, but if you can pull one plug then you can easily pull the other. At this point who knows.

[Tron 2.0]

The ISO Zone has been shutting down for months. Retro Zone is the new site.
Ah then i was a little confused when i first heard about isozone not offering roms any more.

[Gameguy]

So what your suggesting is that after 20 years all intellectual property should become public domain? Anyone should be able to make and sell a Mario game or a Mickey cartoon? Anyone should be allowed to use the Coca-Cola logo on their own products? Anyone should be allowed to make a Starwars or Harry Potter film? 20 years just isn't that long.
We have Lupin III now because someone decided to just steal someone else's property and expand upon it. Just imagine how many advancements would have been possible by now if everyone had access to everyone else's research and technology, everyone just constantly expanding upon what already exists and is known. Like cancer would have been cured by now.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any copyright, it's just something interesting to think about as a hypothetical.

Also, there have been several sequels or adaptations made to books or films that are already in the public domain. The world didn't collapse because of them existing.

[jb143]

We have Lupin III now because someone decided to just steal someone else's property and expand upon it. Just imagine how many advancements would have been possible by now if everyone had access to everyone else's research and technology, everyone just constantly expanding upon what already exists and is known. Like cancer would have been cured by now.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any copyright, it's just something interesting to think about as a hypothetical.

Also, there have been several sequels or adaptations made to books or films that are already in the public domain. The world didn't collapse because of them existing.

In the very next sentence I comment on how patents are different, I even use drug research as an example. But even still, when a patent expires other companies can't use their trademarked name. Imagine the confusion that would cause already confused consumers? That's why generic drugs use the chemical name.

Or imagine if people made and sold inferior quality counterfeit games and devices and tried to pass them off as the real thing. Oh wait... now imagine if that was completely legal.

[Greg2600]

Ah then i was a little confused when i first heard about isozone not offering roms any more.

Well it was a team running it, and I believe that one or more of the founders are simply done with it. So the remaining members have started a few site.