72-pin replacements devalue the NES- thoughts?

[gbpxl]

Opinion: There are two NESs for sale in front of me. One was opened and has an aftermarket 72 pin connector in it and the other was never opened and has the original 72 pin connector in it. I am willing to pay at least 25% more or so for the virgin console.

I get so sick of seeing NESs advertised with the new pin as if that is a selling point. To me it just decreases the number of unadultered consoles floating around. Its really not hard to get the games to work if you clean the cartridge and the pin itself and try to insert it various ways.

[Edmond Dantes]

Just saying, I don't get your logic. Someone attempted repairs (which might even have been successful) and that's somehow a bad thing to you? You would prefer the console with original 30+ year old parts?

Let me put it this way, would you feel the same way about a Game Gear with replaced capacitors vs original capacitors?

[Aussie2B]

I do prefer an NES to have its original pins, as those replacements are junk and tend to wear out quick, leaving it in an even worse state than it was with the original pins, but that said, a working system is still better than one that doesn't work. Trust me, you can clean the absolute heck out of your NES and carts and still have it barely work if the pins are bent out of shape. I used to have an NES like that. And I don't expect every random person who has an NES to have the desire or know-how to open up their NES and bend the pins back into making a decent connection, so I can't blame people for opting for clones or replacement pins or what have you.

[YoshiM]

As long as it works and doesn't have a death-grip on the cart, I'd go for the deck with the new pins.

Retro gamers and collectors are going have to realize that eventually, electronics on these consoles will fail. Even if never used, some components like certain capacitors will just dry out and could fail as soon as power is applied. Or plastic or wires could be brittle from just age. Our Ataris and NES decks aren't immortal. People will have to learn to or have someone repair their stuff or get modern equivalents.

[gbpxl]

As long as it works and doesn't have a death-grip on the cart, I'd go for the deck with the new pins.

Retro gamers and collectors are going have to realize that eventually, electronics on these consoles will fail. Even if never used, some components like certain capacitors will just dry out and could fail as soon as power is applied. Or plastic or wires could be brittle from just age. Our Ataris and NES decks aren't immortal. People will have to learn to or have someone repair their stuff or get modern equivalents.
The problem is that most the aftermarket pins Ive used and the clone consoles all had death grips, or at least felt awkward going in. I want my NES to feel like two golden retrievers in the throes of love making, not a great dane going at it with a Yorkshire terrier

[Greg2600]

If you "boil the connector" it removes the gunk from the pins. True it doesn't fix them completely, but I bought a new 72-ZIF, used it. Boiled my original connector, and threw the new one away.

[gbpxl]

How much of that was actually removing the gunk rather than simply improving conductivity

[YoshiM]

The problem is that most the aftermarket pins Ive used and the clone consoles all had death grips, or at least felt awkward going in. I want my NES to feel like two golden retrievers in the throes of love making, not a great dane going at it with a Yorkshire terrier

Do you actually play NES games or just like inserting and pulling out the cartridge repeatedly? ;-)

If that's the case (wanting the ZIF experience), learn to refurbish the pins or find someone selling actual OEM NES pins. I bought new OEM pins and cart insertion was like 1988 all over again. Pin refurbishing is a pain but with practice can yield good results.

[gbpxl]

I bent pins on an original and afterwards it had a deathgrip like a... well nevermind

Anyways i use an old worn out NES now and shes not as tight as the ones that had surgery but she gets the job done and still very fun to play with

[AdamAnt316]

Generally, I prefer a working NES to a non-working one, regardless of how it's made to work. I personally have had decent luck re-bending the pins in one of my NESes, so I haven't tried any of the aftermarket 72-pin connectors, but I can see why some folks use them. If I had a NES in which the connector appeared to be physically dirty, I'd probably apply DeOxit (https://caig.com/product/deoxit-d5s-6/) before I tried anything along the lines of 'boiling', as that sounds like it might do more harm than good.
-Adam

[Edmond Dantes]

Our Ataris and NES decks aren't immortal.

Yours aren't.

[Niku-Sama]

yea mine are, plus several lifetimes of spare parts from outside death causing events.
like the sudden heat death of the universe.

i'd pay 25% more for virgin things too but we might be getting off topic here.

if the connector isnt pulling the PCB from the cart when you remove the game then it isnt a problem., also people dont replace them for no reason either.
i tried everything to make the one in my sharp nes tv come back to life but it had dr mario in there for too many decades and when i cracked it loose (literally had to break the bonds betweeen the metals from contact corrosion) it just wouldnt do it in a reliable way. It'll get a blinking light win when ever i get brave enough to crack it open again.

i am sure blinking light wins are taboo in your book too

[gbpxl]

yea mine are, plus several lifetimes of spare parts from outside death causing events.
like the sudden heat death of the universe.

i'd pay 25% more for virgin things too but we might be getting off topic here.

if the connector isnt pulling the PCB from the cart when you remove the game then it isnt a problem., also people dont replace them for no reason either.
i tried everything to make the one in my sharp nes tv come back to life but it had dr mario in there for too many decades and when i cracked it loose (literally had to break the bonds betweeen the metals from contact corrosion) it just wouldnt do it in a reliable way. It'll get a blinking light win when ever i get brave enough to crack it open again.

i am sure blinking light wins are taboo in your book too
I want the system to work first and foremost. If replacing something is necessary to achieve that, then fine. But a working NES with all original components is much more desirable to me.

The BLW to me is like putting a 2019 Corvette engine in a 1985 Corvette. Will it make it better yeah, but Id rather have the '85 motor

[Gameguy]

Personally I would avoid any NES system with a replacement pin connector unless it was dirt cheap and I wouldn't plan on keeping it. The replacement connectors are pretty much junk. I've used cleaning kits on used systems and got the original connectors to work close to new, I wouldn't bother replacing pins.

As for the Sharp NES TV mentioned above, if I had to replace the connector I would salvage one from a regular NES system so it would still be original. Maybe that's just me.

[AdamAnt316]

Personally I would avoid any NES system with a replacement pin connector unless it was dirt cheap and I wouldn't plan on keeping it. The replacement connectors are pretty much junk. I've used cleaning kits on used systems and got the original connectors to work close to new, I wouldn't bother replacing pins.

As for the Sharp NES TV mentioned above, if I had to replace the connector I would salvage one from a regular NES system so it would still be original. Maybe that's just me.
To me, replacing a 72-pin connector in an NES with the 72-pin connector from another NES would be akin to replacing the engine in a Chevy Vega (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Vega) with the exact same engine from another Chevy Vega. It may work at first (if you're lucky), but will be far too likely to break down again in the same manner before too long. As I said above, if it were a question of having something be original or having something work, I'd go with the latter every time. There's no sense in having something be completely original if it means it'll just sit on a shelf not working.
-Adam

[Gameguy]

To me, replacing a 72-pin connector in an NES with the 72-pin connector from another NES would be akin to replacing the engine in a Chevy Vega (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Vega) with the exact same engine from another Chevy Vega. It may work at first (if you're lucky), but will be far too likely to break down again in the same manner before too long. As I said above, if it were a question of having something be original or having something work, I'd go with the latter every time. There's no sense in having something be completely original if it means it'll just sit on a shelf not working.
-Adam
I still remember when I went to a game store and someone brought their NES console in for repair, as a game was stuck in the system and couldn't be removed because it had a new pin connector with a death grip.

To me a replacement 3rd party connector is equivalent to replacing a cell phone or laptop battery with a cheap off brand replacement that either doesn't hold a charge as long, or tends to catch on fire or explode. Maybe there are some good quality replacements available but I have no idea how to sort them out from all the garbage ones when searching online.

I've used cleaning kits made by Gemini and after cleaning for 5-10 minutes, they work fine and usually start on the first try. Original connectors aren't usually dead even after being decades old. They require more occasional maintenance than other consoles but they're still usable.

[jb143]

I've seen this as well, where A LOT of NES systems for sale will say they replaced the pins and I always think that they probably just needed a good cleaning/re-bending instead. I guess I mostly just remember the stories (mainly on here) about how some of the replacements were way too tight.

Now for parts like caps and batteries it makes sense to replace with new parts if needed, but even then, if someone else is doing it you have no idea the quality of the parts they used.

[WulfeLuer]

Your '85 Corvette motor would either have been rebuilt at least once (probably twice) to be in proper working condition unless it was a 'pretty' show car, which means it needs a rebuild now. At least half of the 'permanent' things around it would have been replaced; the alternator, the master cylinder for the brakes, any thing with the word 'pump' in it, probably the solenoid for the starter and the IM for the distributor (if not the whole thing for both). This is on top of normal, consumer-level maintenance (oil changes, brake replacement, etc.). The good news that we're dealing with Chevy parts, and that 2019 engine would be an improvement and likely more economical in the long run.

[gbpxl]

Your '85 Corvette motor would either have been rebuilt at least once (probably twice) to be in proper working condition unless it was a 'pretty' show car, which means it needs a rebuild now. At least half of the 'permanent' things around it would have been replaced; the alternator, the master cylinder for the brakes, any thing with the word 'pump' in it, probably the solenoid for the starter and the IM for the distributor (if not the whole thing for both). This is on top of normal, consumer-level maintenance (oil changes, brake replacement, etc.). The good news that we're dealing with Chevy parts, and that 2019 engine would be an improvement and likely more economical in the long run.
Which is more expensive? The '85 with zero miles and all original parts that need replacing or the '85 with zero miles and has all new parts under the hood

[WulfeLuer]

The one with all new parts. A car enthusiast would pay a pretty penny for the first, but then probably rip out lots of things and put in all new plus probably some aftermarket, especially if he wants to drive the thing, and that would affect his offer. The second is nothing more than a immobile conversation piece that has been upgraded with lots of shiny toys, but overfinanced idiots love such things, and will throw more money at it. Even more if the seller can produce a list of the shiny new toys, and even more if they can produce a list of the shiny toys that were replaced.

[gbpxl]

Guess im in the minority because ill pay more for original

[Gameguy]

Guess im in the minority because ill pay more for original
Actually you're not in the minority, number matching greatly affects the value in collector cars. An all original car would have proper matching numbers and would be worth more money. If parts like the engine, transmission, rear-axle assembly, or the frame are replaced then the numbers won't match properly anymore and the value of the car would be affected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_matching
https://www.newsday.com/classifieds/cars/classic-car-matching-numbers-has-lost-meaning-in-appraisals-1.6154213

It's true that other minor parts would be replaced due to general maintenance, but there's a difference between using genuine OEM replacement parts and aftermarket parts. Aftermarket parts are cheaper than OEM parts because OEM is worth more.


This is entirely different when compared to electronics. They won't need the same types of replacement parts compared to a car, although belts and rubber parts are expected to need replacing in cassette players and VCRs. The quality of the replacement parts used matters too, especially in valuable electronics like high end stereo equipment. I have a friend who restores old equipment, with high end amplifiers needing new capacitors he'll replace them with the correct high quality replacements, using cheaper or different brand capacitors with the same values will still apparently affect the sound quality. When speakers need refoaming he'll make sure to use the correct replacements, he won't use the cheapest replacement foams available. I forget which brand of speakers he told me about but showed me a pair someone was selling online and explained to me how they obviously had the foams replaced as they were the wrong colour for that brand, whoever replaced them used cheap parts which affects the value.

The main issue I have with replacement pin connectors is that I have no idea what quality the replacement is. There's no brand name stamped on the parts to read reviews, they're all just generic replacements made by random companies. It's different than me doing research and buying a replacement from a known good company. It's just enough that I don't want to bother dealing with replacements, I'll probably have to replace the connector again on my own and when originals would be working just fine it makes little sense to me to bother dealing with replacements.

I prefer things to be kept as original as possible. It's like people only wanting original controllers over 3rd party, how many times have people on this forum passed on cheap looking controllers over the years? I still remember buying a Genesis bundle years ago where the console came with a replacement adapter, it was underpowered with the amperage and the first thing I did was buy a correct replacement adapter for the console. I had a Super Famicom come with a generic AV cable and the sound wasn't working when I tried it out, I replaced the AV cable with a genuine first party cable and it worked fine. Having to start replacing parts costs me extra time and money, when I notice things are missing or 3rd party I pay less because I expect to have problems when I get home.

[WulfeLuer]

Oh, buying a collector car like a 'Vette is different from buying electronics, but if you're wanting to drive it, you'll want to have one that can be driven. Neither example would have proof (zero miles on the odo) that they are drivable. The second example is only worth more because it would be OOOH SHINY NEW compared to the first and attracts more overfinanced idiots. OTOH, Chevy OEM for their V8s (which the Vette almost certainly has) is relatively simple to acquire. OTGH, keeping matched numbers is still a worthy feat in and of itself.

I agree that having this nondescript, wild aftermarket stuff be the only consistent source for console replacement parts is a big problem. Rolling the dice every time you need to swap out even the simplest part should not be something even an enthusiast needs to put up with. I wouldn't buy the NES with aftermarket pins unless I got to see the thing and checked how it behaved first. At the very least, I'd check up on the seller and make sure they're on the level.

[jb143]

And if someone was ridiculous with wanting "original parts" when doing repairs, down to buying parts from the same manufacturer, year, or even batches...well, then they'd be replacing the original capacitor plague parts with more capacitor plague parts.

[Aussie2B]

On the subject of all original parts, I wonder if there are any collectors of CIB handhelds who don't consider them complete without the AA batteries. I've actually held on to some myself, as stupid as I'm sure some people would think that is. To no great surprise, the batteries for my original GBA eventually started leaking, so I ended up throwing those out. Weirdly enough, those crapped out faster than the ones that came with my GBC.

[Bojay1997]

On the subject of all original parts, I wonder if there are any collectors of CIB handhelds who don't consider them complete without the AA batteries. I've actually held on to some myself, as stupid as I'm sure some people would think that is. To no great surprise, the batteries for my original GBA eventually started leaking, so I ended up throwing those out. Weirdly enough, those crapped out faster than the ones that came with my GBC.

I have unused original batteries from an Odyssey 1 and a Pong with the little paper strip on the top contact that I keep separate from the actual units. I doubt they will leak at this point, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Gameguy]

Oh, buying a collector car like a 'Vette is different from buying electronics, but if you're wanting to drive it, you'll want to have one that can be driven. Neither example would have proof (zero miles on the odo) that they are drivable. The second example is only worth more because it would be OOOH SHINY NEW compared to the first and attracts more overfinanced idiots. OTOH, Chevy OEM for their V8s (which the Vette almost certainly has) is relatively simple to acquire. OTGH, keeping matched numbers is still a worthy feat in and of itself.
The original topic question was mostly about value, and having something completely original does make it more valuable. If a console is already beat up and not wanted by collectors who are looking for pristine examples, then having a functional console will be more valuable than a non-functional console. But if given a choice between two working consoles where one has an original connector and the other has the connector replaced, I will choose the original connector every time.


I agree that having this nondescript, wild aftermarket stuff be the only consistent source for console replacement parts is a big problem. Rolling the dice every time you need to swap out even the simplest part should not be something even an enthusiast needs to put up with. I wouldn't buy the NES with aftermarket pins unless I got to see the thing and checked how it behaved first. At the very least, I'd check up on the seller and make sure they're on the level.
It's this needing to check out the console first that's a bit of a problem. Usually I would pick things up from garage sales, thrift stores, or classified ads. I don't usually have the option to test things out first before buying. And when people just buy used systems to flip after just getting things running, they'll spend as little as possible buying replacement parts. There's a good chance a working new connector would still die in a few months of use. I would usually have to know the seller personally to consider buying a console that's been "repaired" like that. As I don't need more NES consoles personally it's easier for me to just pass on them.


And if someone was ridiculous with wanting "original parts" when doing repairs, down to buying parts from the same manufacturer, year, or even batches...well, then they'd be replacing the original capacitor plague parts with more capacitor plague parts.
It's not necessarily about replacing them with the same year or batch, although capacitors can be rebuilt sometimes or reformed. It's mostly about replacing them with parts that truly perform at the same specs as the original at the same quality. It's a bit beyond my personal wants as I just want quality parts to be used but I'm not into high end equipment the same way.

https://makezine.com/projects/capacitor-rebuilding-for-fun-or-profit/
https://www.qsl.net/g3oou/reform.html


On the subject of all original parts, I wonder if there are any collectors of CIB handhelds who don't consider them complete without the AA batteries. I've actually held on to some myself, as stupid as I'm sure some people would think that is. To no great surprise, the batteries for my original GBA eventually started leaking, so I ended up throwing those out. Weirdly enough, those crapped out faster than the ones that came with my GBC.
Partly yes, some vintage batteries are quite expensive on ebay. Again it more depends on the general condition, they don't necessarily have to still work but they usually can't be corroded.

It's like collecting old pop cans or bottles, they're worth more sealed even though nobody expects the contents to still be drinkable.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, that's what I meant, unused and still sealed in their plastic. I never held on to any batteries I actually used, but sometimes I wouldn't even bothering opening the ones systems came with. But even with being unused and sealed, my GBA batteries started leaking, and the battery acid burned right through the plastic they were sealed in.