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Edmond Dantes
09-11-2019, 11:37 AM
So I was recording footage for a review of the original Dragon Warrior on NES, and that of course got me looking at where the series went afterward.

And I happened to see that the series got interesting. So much so I may finally pick up a 3DS and a Switch.

Why? Well... there's a game called Dragon Quest Builders, which is A) Minecraft but with Slimes (apparently) and B) is apparently a sequel to the original Dragon Warrior, but in an alternate timeline... okay, remember how the Dragonlord makes you that "we can rule together?" offer? Builders apparently is in a world where the hero took that offer.

The more recent mainline games also sound interesting, except for DQ10 which decided to be an MMO.... just like how Final Fantasy 11 was an MMO. Did Square's half of the company have an influence on this?

Anyway, I don't normally like Dynasty Warriors games, but Dragon Quest Heroes looks fun. And I'm honestly wanting to play IX and XI, the former for Nintendo DS and the latter is coming to the Switch.

Okay, so question:

HAve any of you played these games? Especially Builders?

If so, is there anything I should be warned about (like requiring internet connections, or some versions being crap compared to others, or predatory tactics like microtransactions)?

Thanks in advance.

Tupin
09-11-2019, 02:12 PM
Builders is good, but Builders 2 is much, much better. Dragon Quest Heroes is also fun. Haven't played many in the main series though.

kupomogli
09-12-2019, 02:31 AM
Dragon Quest Heroes 1 is good and bad. If you play through the entire game it's worth playing because it's a mix of Dynasty Warriors and tower defense and the tower defense does add a lot to the game, however if you play the end game content where tower defense really isn't a thing, the game is complete trash because the combat is incredibly weak. The second game feels both better and worse, but it's still the same game essentially. The tower defense is simply replaced with your standard more difficult progression, kill all enemies with maybe two tower defense battles the entire game, neither being that great. The exploration is kind of cool but it's just a bunch of walking and when you're not somewhere you haven't been and no challenge exists, it's just as bad as the first games end game. The end game is pretty trash, there's end game cntent but extremely repetitive, going back to any other area makes it just as bad as the original. So these games aren't anything beyond good for a single playthrough.

Dragon Quest Builders, I've only played the first one and I've enjoyed it. Think Minecraft but much much much better. There's actually objectives and goals. From everything I've seen and heard, yeah, the second one is way better. A lot more quality of life improvements, improvements in combat, the game now allows you to grow crops like Harvest Moon, etc. I'm going to eventually get the second game.

Dragon Quest 11 is a great game but has issues. Now first off, Dragon Quest 11 has the best characters in the entire series, especially Veronica. The "normal difficulty" is so stupidly easy and unfun that the game itself isn't fun at all, atleast to me. If you like to just walk through opponents in an RPG then it should be enjoyable. However, at the same time, Super Strong Monsters difficulty has several difficulty spikes that make you hit a brick wall until you grind a few levels. Regular battles are all also difficult, but they feel balanced incredibly well, hard to where many battles could end in a party wipe, but not too hard. As someone who doesn't like bad balance, there are two sections that I ran into on Super Strong Monsters that I was grinding for two or three hours on both of these sections to get past the bosses. The first one was this sandcrab that could OHKO the players, the second one was a spider that could web the entire group and have turn after turn after turn uncontested.

Unfortunately, after finishing off the spider boss, I turned the difficult to normal and saved. I never played the normal difficulty, but after pushing myself 30 hours to around the very middle of the game, I couldn't take playing this difficulty anymore as I wasn't putting any effort and just wiping the floor with everything except bosses. I determined that the bosses should have ever so slightly more health than what they had on normal and normal enemies on Super Strong Monsters were the perfect balance. So essentially the game is a bit unbalanced on both aspects imo. Either way, you can't switch back to SSM after switching to normal. I made an irreversible mistake and for that a game I would have completed I never will unless I decide to play the Switch version or the PS4 version gets DQ11S.

The final issue, the reason I'm not restarting unless I play the S version is the storyline. Now the storyline isn't bad, it's well, cliche, but that's what Dragon Quest has always been. The problem with the story on DQ11, is it drags on FOR HOURS. Without any spoilers, once you reach the very middle of the game, you have literally four hours of nothing but follow this character for awhile, then go back and forth to speak to different characters in this "new town" and then go outside of the new town to meet the last party member and have a stry battle, then go back in the town for more dialogue. Four freaking hours of this. This is just the very last part in the story I've experienced before quitting the game, this isn't counting how long the rest of the story drags. So yeah, I like the characters, and every time Veronica speaks it's the height of the games dialogue, but I do not like how such a merely average story drags on and on and on. That's actually what makes the story worse.

Each character has a predefined role and you can swap out any of your characters with any other character in combat at any time. Now when I say charcters can swap out and they fill a specific role, it's not at all like "change characters and attack" like Final Fantasy 10. The chracters don't fill a one dimensional gameplay mechanic.

Additionally, the game has your characters going into a sort of limit break style mode after a certain amount of actions. This is called being "pepped up," instead of the much cooler sounding Japanese name for it being "in the zone." You can tell if your characters pep is going to end by the character flashing, however, if you take them out of combat, they stay in this mode indefinitely. So you can essentially save the characters pep and then bring them back into combat when you need to use it. Each character has their own pep skills they can use, but they can also use combination pep skills that can have different effects. One instance of pep includes the hero and one or two other characters, this skill gives a 100% chance that the enemy will drop their rare item, give more gold, and give more experience. I've came across enemies that give you every seed type so you could essentially max out character stats and the Falcon Sword would then be the best weapon in the game, especially with Erik who is the only character in the game who can dual wield.

Anyways, you can slightly build each character towards how you want them to play, but for the most part they'll still be in their specific role. Erik is the only character who can use boomerangs, but he's also the best character with swords, and the best character with daggers. Veronica, Serena, and Rab can use other weapons, but you're not going to want to use anything with them but staves. I prefer claws with Jade, but she is also the best character with spears. I honestly actually feel that while Sylvandro isn't specifically support, he fills that role better than attacking, he's quite bad at dealing damage and he's limited in his support role outside of hustle and increasing attack power. If anything, Sylvandro's best role would be assisting as a secondary dagger user if you go for daggers with Erik. There's another character I got but I don't want to ruin anything by saying the weapon he used.

I really do think Dragon Quest 11 is a great game, but the issues with it are annoying, and as I said, once I removed Super Strong Monsters, I unknowingly ruined the game for myself, so remember, if you do play, make sure you add super strong monsters. This is done by hitting triangle when adding the hero's name. It's a little hard starting out, but trust me, the normal difficulty is stupidly easy and you want to just stay away from it.

*edit*

I hate visible encounters and the way it's done here is pretty bad.

Also, the point system is carried from DQ8 again but in DQ11 it's the first time this system has ever been good. Yes, I think the point system that started in DQ8 has been garbage ever since it's been implemented. On this game however each character has a grid and you can view almost every skill in the grid to determine how you're going to progress. You can learn abilities only from abilities you've already learned. You can also reset the grid as well so you can reallocate the points any way you like(I think the fifth town in the game you can do this in, it's not too far in, but not too early either. Maybe 10 hours or so?)

Edmond Dantes
09-12-2019, 11:11 AM
Dragon Quest Builders, I've only played the first one and I've enjoyed it. Think Minecraft but much much much better. There's actually objectives and goals. From everything I've seen and heard, yeah, the second one is way better. A lot more quality of life improvements, improvements in combat, the game now allows you to grow crops like Harvest Moon, etc. I'm going to eventually get the second game.

Okay, sold. Might get a Switch later. And the game doesn't require internet access at all except for optional crap?


The final issue, the reason I'm not restarting unless I play the S version is the storyline. Now the storyline isn't bad, it's well, cliche, but that's what Dragon Quest has always been. The problem with the story on DQ11, is it drags on FOR HOURS. Without any spoilers, once you reach the very middle of the game, you have literally four hours of nothing but follow this character for awhile, then go back and forth to speak to different characters in this "new town" and then go outside of the new town to meet the last party member and have a stry battle, then go back in the town for more dialogue. Four freaking hours of this.

This is sounding like Dragon Warrior VII on the PS1.

VII is actually the farthest I've gotten in the Dragon Quest saga, because only recently did I want to get caught up on it... people say the DS version is better, but I dunno I liked the PS1 version just fine, just it did get to a point where it felt like an episodic anime. Since I might get a DS for the exclusive games anyway tho...

I just bought DQ8 (PS2) on ebay so hopefully will play that soon. Thing that fascinated me is it looks like there's a huge 3D world to venture in and apparently it actually feels massive and like something you're exploring, which is something I like to do.

Hopefully that DW1 video I said I was making will be up soon.

*edit*

So I was reading up on Builders 2.... apparently there's a thing in the Builders series: the first one takes place after the original Dragon Quest, the second one involves characters and events from DQ2.... which kinda makes me wonder how they'll handle the third Builders if they ever make one, considering...

SPOILER
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Dragon Quest/Warrior III was a prequel.

gbpxl
09-12-2019, 09:28 PM
Dragon Warrior is one of the greatest games ever made. So simple in its gameplay yet so addictive. Im a big fan of "grinding" in RPGs and since DW is 90% that, it wins big for me. There were some good puzzles in the game too. I didnt use any guides or FAQs when I beat it so I was pretty proud of myself

Tupin
09-12-2019, 09:41 PM
I don't think DQ Builders 2 needs any additional downloads.

Edmond Dantes
09-15-2019, 05:58 PM
Dragon Warrior is one of the greatest games ever made. So simple in its gameplay yet so addictive. Im a big fan of "grinding" in RPGs and since DW is 90% that, it wins big for me. There were some good puzzles in the game too. I didnt use any guides or FAQs when I beat it so I was pretty proud of myself

A wild Response appears! Command?

You need to see the AGDQ 2018 speedrun of DW1. It is amazing and proves gods exist.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgh30BiWG58

Actual run begins about 6 minutes in.... for some reason GDQ keeps putting fluff at the front.

.........

Recently I got to play Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King for the PS2 (there's also a DS version, no I don't know what the difference is). My initial impression:

"This might just be the best PS2-era RPG nobody talks about." Seriously the world is MASSIVE and it seems to still keep a lot of what I like about the older games.

Just gonna say it: If there's any argument to be made for Japan being better than Americans, its how Dragon Quest is a phenomenon there but still niche in America. Instead we're more into Final Fantasy.. the series where most of the games in it are basically unplayable.

Edmond Dantes
09-30-2019, 01:45 AM
So, not sure if this goes in a topic about Dragon Quest video games but I already know an accessory I need for my Switch:

https://kotaku.com/look-at-this-dragon-quest-slime-controller-for-the-swit-1835432396

I know there was one for the PS2 back in the day (in both normal slime and Metal Slime variants, the latter slightly harder to find, I assume because people kept killing it for EXP) but well, this just seems like the perfect thing to play DQ Builders with.

Edmond Dantes
10-03-2019, 04:02 AM
Is triple-bumping okay?

Also I've been wondering if this should be renamed to "Dragon Quest/Warrior All-Purpose Topic" and possibly moved to Classic Gaming since I have a lot to say about the DQ series lately (and I'm working on a video about the first game which I will upload.... hopefully this year). I'll let the mods hash that one out.

Okay, so first...

Dragon Quest Builders 2

I mentioned that my first Switch game was DQB2 (the store didn't have the first one).

And I keep waffling on an issue.... okay, so I thought of also getting Minecraft on Switch, but.... part of me wonders if I even need it.

Okay so I started DQ2 and noticed it seems to be storymode-only (apparently a free create mode was added in a recent patch but I haven't had luck getting my Switch online with wifi so I'm waiting on a USB Lan adapter), which at first I thought was gonna be restrictive...

But like... it kind of is because you can't craft everything right off the bat, your char (who I call Bippydoo out of a personal tradition which will be explained in that DW1 video, tho I think I've told the story in text before) has to realize the recipe and write it down in his book first... and I just realized how much that sounds like another Square Enix game, except here the iconic scene is him having a eureka moment then pulling a stonking huge book and quill pen out of nowhere and doing some writing. Anyway, so for example you can't make a Stone Sword until your char has this eureka moment. Sometimes its story-dependent, sometimes it happens when you level up, and sometimes it happens just whenever you encounter a new type of material (Bippydoo figured out how to made medical herbs as soon as I got my first medical leaf drop).

But then there's placing blocks... outside of needing a plot upgrade item (which you can get in 10-30min) to break down some materials into a carryable item, you're basically given free reign right off the bat. Anything you want to, do it. Wanna change the world? There's nothing to it. Come with me and you'll be in a world of Pure Imagination...

And the story quests... well basically they only kick off when you talk to people who are clearly indicated, so you can put them on hold for like ever if you wish.

I've played like 5 hours of the game now and only just got to the girl who teaches you about farming...

Incidentally, I actually kind of like the fact that Toriyama's characters all resemble each other, because it always feels a little awesome when I recognize a face. I described Rosie to someone as "like if Arale and Lucca did the fusion dance" and that friend was like "Who's Arale?"

And I'll be honest... I never liked Minecraft's blocky aesthetic. In general one of my problems with the indie scene is how every game seems to be trying hard to have a stand-out visual style and like, I get it, but at the same time I want something a little more normal sometimes. If I made a game I'd make it look like an 80s cartoon or an 80s-early 90s anime OVA.

Dragon Warrior I

So there was a discussion elsewhere where I and another member discussed the merits of the Gameboy Color version over the NES one.

Recently I played both versions back to back (because of course I own both).... and thing is, now that I have, I'm not convinced that the concept that "the GBC version has less grinding" is actually true. In fact I'm actually feeling the opposite.

Like, in the NES one, once you know where the Erdrick Armor is, all you potentially need is the Sleep spell and you can go for it, and that cuts out a lot of money grinding (I basically never grind for EXP) right there... but GBC has rebalanced it so Sleep is less likely to work, and furthermore the monster guarding the Erdrick Armor sometimes gets to go first and just kill you. So I almost feel like I have to grind up for the Magic Armor before I even have a chance against him.

Its possible I just have bad luck though.

By the way, I know the NES game has the whole "your name affects your stats" thing, but is that still true in the GBC version? It doesn't matter since he's Bippydoo (or Bipp) either way, but I noticed some of my level ups early on kinda sucked.

Dragon Quest VIII

Still the best RPG on the PS2.

That said, one thing I kinda ran into is I actually got caught up just exploring for treasures and unique monster encounters, so I'm kinda overpowered (I'm at Trodain Castle now).

I.... almost think this game punishes you for that, because I noticed some characters used to get 9 skill points per level, but now they get like 2-5, and I almost wonder (in part because of one of the messages King Trode gives you when you hit select) if the game actually punishes you for powerlevelling via these skill points.

Mind, I don't know how much of a difference it makes. I tend to put the points towards whatever weapon I'm currently using (tho with Bippydoo I also gave him Courage and Yangus I upped his Humanity. Jessica I gave her Sexiness for a bit but stopped after she got the "some monsters will randomly not attack because they think she's hot" thing) and it so far hasn't been a problem. I usually hate games with these kinds of skill things because I feel like I'm screwing myself, but DQ8 seems to mitigate this by making balance across the board perfectly viable.

Damn this world is big tho.

kupomogli
10-04-2019, 01:48 AM
Dragon Quest VIII

Still the best RPG on the PS2.

I politely disagree, and I'm going to say SMT Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, and many others are better, but to not further derail this topic I'll leave it at that. However, if you do believe that this is the best RPG on PS2, then I would say that you'll love DQ11 which imo does have the best characters in the series and the best battle system in the series by far. The party swap system works so well with this game and has one of the best party swap systems in the genre. Dragon Quest 7 is the best game in the series, PS1 version.

Edmond Dantes
10-08-2019, 03:38 PM
Please please please if you're saying the PS1 version then it should be Dragon *Warrior* VII ;)

Just curious, what do you have against the DS re-release of VII? (I've only ever played the PS1 version myself so I'm curious). I mean you specifically say to play the PS1 version which sounds like you've played both.

EDIT: So..... I just spent hours with DW Builders 2.

So one of my plans when getting a Switch was to eventually pick up the Switch version of Minecraft. Now I'm wondering if that'll even be necessary. Only question... do you ever get to adopt a Slime?

WulfeLuer
10-08-2019, 10:20 PM
DQ8 is very grindy, and the mechanics do encourage this (the monster arena needs both time and good critters to clear reliably and you'll want those rewards, the alchemy pot tends to take its own sweet time, especially with the later, better recipes), don't worry about what the good king goes on about if its not story related. I don't to give any sort of spoiler but Jessica gets an ability in the end of the Sexiness tree that can help a LOT with the slog that late-game battles become. With most of the skills in DQ8 it's not so much that a given tree is bad as some trees are just better. I do recommend that you stick to just two trees per character; the points don't peter out in later levels, but the amounts tend to get wonky and it pays to specialize.

The world is still stupidly huge, though.

kupomogli
10-09-2019, 03:17 AM
Just curious, what do you have against the DS re-release of VII? (I've only ever played the PS1 version myself so I'm curious). I mean you specifically say to play the PS1 version which sounds like you've played both.

Visible encounters and shit field of view.

I don't get why developers seem to feel the need to zoom two inches away from your players dick the entire game and take away pretty much any and all visibility. Yes, I understand it's to keep graphical fidelity at its maximum, but when the game is zoomed so far in that you are looking at the map on the bottom of the screen 99.9% of the time to see what you're doing then it defeats the entire purpose. If there's one thing I hate about many DS and 3DS RPGs its that developers push this on the player on many games, Square Enix especially.

It's not even confined to DS and 3DS JRPGs. Instead of just using the PSP version of Final Fantasy 4 Complete Collection, Square Enix decided to remake FF4 The After Years in the DS graphical style and release it zoomed in where you can't see a damn thing on iOS, Android, AND PC. Now way to zoom out, instead you can't see more than two feet surrounding your characters. It's like seriously, what is this shit? Is this just a really bad joke? Again, what's the fucking point of doing this if you can't see what the fuck you're doing? This is the most stupid bullshit I've ever seen that's become consistent across many developers product. It's absolutely fucking stupid. I constantly see other people complaining about it and we constantly see this bullshit again and again.

Then when it comes to visible enemies, this is honestly pure laziness. Instead of putting the effort of actually having to balance your game, developers have used "visible enemies." A lot of people seem to like visible enemies because it makes it adds realism to a JRPG, but no, it doesn't, infact it not only takes away challenge, it actually completely removes realism. If the game is going to stop the players dead in their tracks anyways and then deal damage turn by turn, then how does running into an enemy to initiate battle add any sort of realism to the title? Not only that, but each and every Dragon Quest remake with visible encounters make the enemies a joke to avoid. If you become great at dodging, you can essentially evade each and every enemy all the way up to a boss, allowing you as a player to fight this boss at full power. If the game was actually balanced to favor an average number of steps, it forces the player to prepare and then get to the boss in a weakened state(or a state requiring the player to use items to have a better chance.

With visible enemies, developers are putting it on the player to fight however many enemies they wish, because dodging enemies are too easy. The player then has to determine if the're too powerful or not, making an unbalanced game. If the player is a master of dodging enemies or feels enemies aren't close enough, the player might just outright skip many battles they should have fought to keep their level high enough, again, keeping for a far more unbalanced experience. It means that the developer now don't have to fine tune the amount of steps to battles to be able to potentially clear everything in the dungeon while still gaining just enough experience to be strong enough while also making your way to the end of said dungeon in a state where you may still be able to defeat the enemy.

Think about it this. Dark Souls is designed for the player to overcome a large group of enemies on the way to a boss, but if you're to just run straight through, dodging past the enemies locations and making a beeline for the boss, you can get there without getting hit pretty easily if you know what you're doing even in the slightest. Monsters that randomly appear in different locations on the map are just as easy to avoid. Where's the balance when playing in both scenarios? At the very least, being that the JRPG is not an action game, they can actually force these random encounters on the player, force a balanced challenge on them, but yeah. Developer laziness makes a worse game because of it.

Additionally, if you think about it. The visible battles means that enemy characters as well as enemy AI will be using the systems processing power. If the enemy AI and enemy graphics weren't moving on screen, if there wasn't extra events per enemy AI that caused battle on touch, etc, then keeping up graphical fidelity while being able to have the screen zoomed out and not zoomed in on the players nuts may very well be a thing. Another issue with visible encounters being shoehorned due to developers being cheap and lazy.

Edmond Dantes
10-09-2019, 03:15 PM
That's a whole lot of stuff I never thought about.

To be honest I'm of two minds about visible encounters. Like, I love Earthbound and Chrono Trigger, though both games do something that works with the system. Earthbound has the whole "you can insta-win a battle if you're that much stronger" thing, plus there's a literal 1:1 ratio of "what you actually touch on the overworld is what you fight in battle," whereas I've seen other systems where you can touch a slime and end up fighting two slimes and a baboon. Chrono Trigger, since it doesn't have transitions to a separate battle screen at all, whatevers on the overworld is what you'll fight.... I'll admit I used to think it was weak that EB had the "enemies make a beeline for you" mentality, whereas Chrono they're patterned (though sometimes you're forced into a fight no matter what).

But at the same time, I've never ever knocked an RPG for not featuring them.

I also tend to think sometimes that if encounters are visible, then you should just do away with the whole concept of separate battle screens and just make it an action-RPG... a point DQ Builders emphasizes pretty well since that's how it handles combat.

......

In other news, color me shocked.... I finally got my Switch to go online and searched the eShop and holy crap, Dragon Quest I, II and III are on the Switch now! It's kind of mystifying that IV isn't. Why is IV always left out?

Hey, Aussie2B, if you're reading this... how do you feel about the Switch port in comparison to the Gameboy Color one?

Aussie2B
10-09-2019, 07:14 PM
I don't have a Switch and haven't played those versions, but from what I've seen of them, graphically, they look pretty gross. I'm not a fan of the high-res sprites on the 16-bit backgrounds look. It doesn't look cohesive, and the enemies are like lifeless cardboard cutouts. The Super Famicom version of Dragon Quest III has some nice animations, so why they'd go backwards and have completely stationary enemies is beyond me.

That said, I think it's nice they've made the games available in another way, even if the presentation could be better. I wish there could be a new physical release of these games. Dragon Quest III is one of the few mainline DQ games I don't own in any form, and both the NES and GBC versions are on the pricey side.

Edmond Dantes
10-10-2019, 09:54 AM
[checks DQ3 prices] ... Yipes. I only paid $30 for the NES version about a year or two ago (cart-only). The GBC version I happened to find at a pawn shop back when I wasn't even that big a fan.

From what I've read apparently the Switch versions are based on the Android/iOS/mobile phone versions? Which probably explains why they showed up here since the porting job was already done. Part of me wishes they would at least include an option to play the other console versions via an emulator (no joke there's a DQ1-3 collection in Japan, for the Wii U, which does precisely this--it has both the Famicom and Super Famicom versions of the three games. That version also has an awesome anime intro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2_JDMgMGQI).

On that note maybe someone should approach Discotek with the idea of licensing any of the Dragon Quest anime.

Ryudo
10-29-2019, 08:11 PM
Heroes is ok but it's more tower defense and escort missions combined with warriors gameplay. DQXI-S is one of the best RPGs out there and I am highlighting the Switch version. PS4 version missing a bunch of content and the music is horrid.

kupomogli
10-29-2019, 09:57 PM
Heroes is ok but it's more tower defense and escort missions combined with warriors gameplay. DQXI-S is one of the best RPGs out there and I am highlighting the Switch version. PS4 version missing a bunch of content and the music is horrid.

It's not that PS4 is missing a lot of content, it's that Switch received more content since that's the extra selling point. Buy the Switch version, not only do you get the 3DS version in one, but you also get fast forward and unique dungeons from every single of the past games. There's probably a lot of people who double dipped on it. I'd buy the PS4 version again if they rerereleased it with the extra content on disc.

Aussie2B
10-30-2019, 09:59 AM
The extra content in the Switch versions is to counteract the wait and the performance drop. It's not as much of a difference with PS4 vs Switch, but DQXI is also on PC, and if you have a powerful enough PC, you can run the game at a much higher resolution and better framerate than on Switch. Between PC and Switch, it's harder to swallow that downgrade for some extra content, since the game really does look beautiful on PC.

Edmond Dantes
10-30-2019, 04:17 PM
Console RPGs on PC. Remember when there used to be warring between the two sides?

(Altho now that I'm more versed in the NES library I can say that its funny the two types of RPG diverged based on platform considering the NES was mostly either Ultima clones--Dragon Quest itself was basically an Ultima fangame in a lot of ways--or else an actual PC port).

So....

Gosh darn is DQ Builders 2 addictive. I keep saying "Just one hour then I'll get back to whatever it is I'm doing..." and I wind up playing all day.

Despite what I said in the Minecraft topic, I have found sometimes you can put the storyline on hold and just build random stuff... or, well, last Saturday.. I 'm in the Khrumble-Dun section now, and I got bored and just started digging, and wound up finding this lava-filled cave area, and I was like, "did I just find this game's version of The Nether?"

Now I feel like I need to return to Furrowfield and see if there's any secret hellpits there.

......

I also made it a sort of goal to try and play every mainline DQ/DW game (meaning the main series games, not counting X since that's just an MMO) and beat them. I'm on Dragon Warrior III (NES) now. I'm not currently interested in playing ports and remakes but I do own the GBC versions of 1-3.

What I don't have is Dragon Warrior IV, at least not a legit cart, so I'm considering my options there. Might be open to trade for it.

kupomogli
10-30-2019, 07:23 PM
The extra content in the Switch versions is to counteract the wait and the performance drop. It's not as much of a difference with PS4 vs Switch, but DQXI is also on PC, and if you have a powerful enough PC, you can run the game at a much higher resolution and better framerate than on Switch. Between PC and Switch, it's harder to swallow that downgrade for some extra content, since the game really does look beautiful on PC.

It's common sense the Switch version came out later, it just fucking came out, and it's why I stated that's its entire selling point. In Japan, most people who wanted Dragon Quest 11 likely got it day one because of how big of a phenomenon it is over there, so because they announced it for the Switch and because it was delayed to be released such a long time later, they added many new features in the game that became selling points for people to double dip on a game they already bought. Yes, it's a plus for Nintendo Switch fans who didn't get it until later, but let's be serious, it's because they want to entice everyone else who bought it already by getting them to buy the same "Definitive Edition" as they so called it.

Seriously, you can't be that oblivious to the real reason they added it in. If they were releasing the same game on the Switch just because, there's no reason to add extra content. They literally added it because they wanted to get other people who already purchased it another reason to buy it. Do you think that Final Fantasy Dawn of Souls was rereleased with the extra content just because? Aside from it being a portable Final Fantasy that was one of the main selling points that they pushed, same with FF4 Advance, FF5 Advance, FF6 Advance. With both Final Fantasy 1 and 2 Anniversary Edition it was the graphics and music improvement, with FFTactics it was the new translation and extra content, with Tactics Ogre it was the completely reworked game, etc. They're not going to go out of their way and spend all this extra time, effort, and money, on releasing all this extra content unless they think that it will push others into purchasing it. Switch only owners in Japan who refused to get a PS4 but were desperate to play Dragon Quest 11 would have bought the game regardless, the extra content was to get people to double dip, plain as that.

Do you really think anyone who owns a Switch, GBA, PSP, etc, really gives a crap about extra content that they didn't know they were going to get in the first place? Of course no one is going to turn down extra content, but what I mean is they would have been satisfied regardless what version of the game they got if it was something they wanted to play. Nintendo fans are posting #Switcher3 this and Witcher 3 that, because they finally get to play Witcher 3. Does the game have extra content? Unless you call the DLC that was already released on the other versions and later Complete Editions of the same game, then no, so why would Dragon Quest 11 without extra content look any less appealing to someone who has never played and has wanted to play the game.

Here's other examples of console versions of games. When Capcom rereleased DmC Devil May Cry on the PS4 and XBO, not only did they include the DLC, but a selling point to entice people who already purchased the original 360/PS3/PC version, aside from the 60fps on consoles, is that Vergil now had a Bloody Palace, Gods Must Die, Hardcore mode, Turbo mode, red/blue enemies are now effected by any weapon, a lock on button along with an alternate way of doing Stinger style attacks since it was done using forward forward in DmC rather than lock on and towards. DMC4 on PS360 was already 60fps, so on PS4 they added Trish/Lady and Vergil modes as well as this PC only mode that added far more enemies. Resident Evil Origins added Wesker mode to RE0. Need I go on? Point is, these games had extra content on the PS4 and XBO so the same people may likely buy them all over again.

*edit*

So yeah, I doubt it, but if DQ11 ever rereleases on PS4 with the Switch content, I'll get it, if not, I'll get the Switch version. I always wanted to own the 3DS version, that was the one I was planning on getting first, but then Square Enix gave us the middle finger and didn't release it in the west. But thankfully we can now play it in some form. I'll also get the PS4 version of Chocobo Dungeon Every Buddy in Japan since it has English and I'll purchase the Switch version of WoFF Maxima multi-language since there's no retail PS4 version of it(but there's a retail version of the XBO version in the west which dropped to $20 in less than a month.)

Aussie2B
10-30-2019, 08:04 PM
Uhhhhhhhhhh

Was it really necessary to get that hostile? Take a frickin' chill pill, dude. My post was not in response to you, nor was it intended as any kind of argument to anything. The point of my post was to express that the Switch version has its pros and cons. There is still good reason to play the PC version, in my opinion. Yes, any publisher that re-releases a game is hoping for some double dippers. There are people who will double-dip even with direct ports, just because they want a game on another platform. But even when not double-dipping, people will often complain if they have to wait longer and get nothing for that wait, or if the version they're buying is downgraded in some way and has nothing else to make up for that.

kupomogli
10-30-2019, 11:26 PM
I also made it a sort of goal to try and play every mainline DQ/DW game (meaning the main series games, not counting X since that's just an MMO) and beat them. I'm on Dragon Warrior III (NES) now. I'm not currently interested in playing ports and remakes but I do own the GBC versions of 1-3.

What I don't have is Dragon Warrior IV, at least not a legit cart, so I'm considering my options there. Might be open to trade for it.

If you're not too far into Dragon Warrior 3 I'd recommend switching over to the GBC version since you have it. The worse thing about the GBC version is that it has a smaller field of view, I think you can only view 10 spaces up and down while 16 spaces on the NES version. However everything else about the game is better, plus the game actually has a lot more to it. Personalities are a pretty cool addition if you want to try and min max your character based on its class as well.

Edmond Dantes
11-01-2019, 08:13 PM
If you're not too far into Dragon Warrior 3 I'd recommend switching over to the GBC version since you have it. The worse thing about the GBC version is that it has a smaller field of view, I think you can only view 10 spaces up and down while 16 spaces on the NES version. However everything else about the game is better, plus the game actually has a lot more to it. Personalities are a pretty cool addition if you want to try and min max your character based on its class as well.

I actually kinda wondered what the "personalities" thing was, as I noticed early on you could change people's personalities with items.

I'm pretty much dead-set on playing the NES one first, but I am the kind of guy who might just end up playing both versions for comparison (I did it for the first game). Just now I almost had a TPK due to a mimic box. Freaking mimic boxes...

Another thing, getting back to my plan to play all the main series DQ games.... I don't have a Nintendo DS, which will be a problem when I get to DQ9 since that's DS exclusive.

Aussie2B
11-01-2019, 09:13 PM
Wouldn't that already be a problem by the time you get to DQ5? Unless you're planning to play 5 and 6 on mobile or in Japanese, or if you're planning to skip the official releases and play fan patches.

kupomogli
11-03-2019, 02:51 PM
Or 4 since you're planning on playing both versions of DW3, I'm assuming both versions of DW4 also.

Edmond Dantes
11-04-2019, 01:40 AM
Wouldn't that already be a problem by the time you get to DQ5? Unless you're planning to play 5 and 6 on mobile or in Japanese, or if you're planning to skip the official releases and play fan patches.

Fan patches (altho I do actually have Japanese carts in case I ever feel like going full otaku).

@kupomogli - Ehm, playing both versions of 3 is just because I happen to already have them so its convenient, and even then it's not likely to be back to back (I get burned out way too easily for that).

Admittedly I do kinda want the DS re-releases of 5 and 6 especially since those are the only official translations and I keep getting mixed reports on whether the fan patch for DQ6 is buggy or not (I used to constantly hear that it would crash the game if you checked your stats, but then I asked here and people who played on repro cart never reported having that issue).

kupomogli
11-09-2019, 06:33 AM
Because of my mistake removing super strong monsters on DQ11, I've deleted my 40 hour save file and started again. I recommend when playing Dragon Quest 11 you at the very least play it with super strong monsters by hitting triangle when choosing your name. This save data I chose super strong monsters, no fleeing, and weak enemies give half or even no exp.

The game is incredibly well balanced while still being difficult on super strong monsters, but the bosses, especially when you get to a certain point can be a brick wall of unbalance to where you may need to grind a couple hours(attacking twice a turn, some even three times.) Maybe the normal enemies on SSM are so well balanced because once you clear a boss you're likely powerful enough to deal with the next group? Who knows. Either way, as I stated not making the mistake of reducing the difficulty again.

Three hours in though, got the second character and defeated the second boss. My first three items that I crafted were perfect as well, so that certainly helped. Just want to say that despite playing 40 hours before that fateful mistake and despite the slow beginning, I'm really enjoying my playthrough and it just goes to show how quality this game is. Great gameplay, great (albeit super cliche) story,and best characters in a DQ by far. Knowing how other parts of the game plays and my continued enjoyment after this restart, will fully play through this game this time and might play Dragon Warrior 7 back to back to determine whether I think this is better.