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View Full Version : Why cant we do old game collections on modern consoles, its 20 freaking 20



Niku-Sama
02-25-2020, 03:41 AM
ok, this is something that amazes me to no end.

In the year 20xx man kind has yet to figure out how to make a retro game compilation for a modern era console that doesn't run like absolute crap.

I recently got mega man x collection for PS4 the other day thinking it would be playable on my modern console on a modern tv with a modern setup.
Apparently i was wrong for thinking this, its total crap, input lag like a mofo, this is a trend i have noticed with most of these compilations in one form or another
Some times its tolerable other times its not, some times its the input lag, some times its the poor sound emulation, most of the time its the inability to turn off the hugely distracting screen borders.

But usually its all of the above.

To rule some things out on the nearly measurable in seconds input lag on the mega man x legacy collection on PS4 i looked up some reviews about this very topic and found that of them all, X4 was the worst.
So i dug my rarely used PS3 out, hooked it up to the same tv, jammed my PSX version of X4 into the drive and went to town. WORLDS BETTER, very little input lag. This was to test if it was my setup or if it was shitty programming/emulation.

well its squarely the crap emulation...

Come on, its 2020, figure it the hell out!
Shit runs better on a $30 single board computer any more and it wont hardly run on my $250 PS4?

Aussie2B
02-25-2020, 09:59 AM
There's probably not enough demand for retro compilations for the effort to be worth it. The publishers know a large portion of the people interested in old games are just going to emulate and not actually pay for a compilation, and the people who care about getting it as close to the original experience as possible will either play the original retro games and hardware or also emulate because they won't have the limitations of the modern consoles. You can easily get a PC much more powerful than the home consoles, choose whichever emulator you prefer, set it up around your preferences and hardware, plug in USB adapters in order to use the original controller, and output to a CRT even. Developers know there's going to be input lag on the modern consoles because that's part and parcel with wireless controllers and HDTVs. They probably figure if the buyer has already accepted there being some input lag than they can get away with even more due to lack of optimization.

Edmond Dantes
02-25-2020, 02:07 PM
On the Switch the Megaman X collections run fine, so I'm not sure what the deal would be with the PS4 version.

Greg2600
02-25-2020, 07:34 PM
The production companies don't see profits in these compilations so they expend as little money and time in them as possible.

Tron 2.0
02-25-2020, 11:54 PM
Depends who's doing,emulation any time it's done by digital eclipse they all ways fall short.Unless it's M2 then the emulation will be top notch.Though lately i have been buying allot of arcade archives release by hamster for switch and so far it's been good.

kupomogli
02-26-2020, 07:59 AM
A few things. If your PS3 is running through HDMI, then it's not that. The PS4 seems to need a sort of line of sight with the controller and console or there's added input lag. If that isn't an issue then there is one final thing but it requires you to have a newer controller. When releasing a new version of a controller, Sony patched in the ability to use the USB cable instead of bluetooth for the data transfer, so this is another thing that could fix the input lag. Not exactly fix, but lessen the input lag.

Unfortunately I can't say I have the same issue because whatever input lag that comes through I'll see to a much lesser degree as my TV has the lowest latency that can be found in a non monitor HDTV. However, that doesn't mean I don't experience it. The Last Guardian has the worst input lag I've ever experienced in my life, so much so that I couldn't play that game more than an hour before I turned it off. 1/10, literally unplayable.

*edit*


In the year 20xx man kind has yet to figure out how to make a retro game compilation for a modern era console that doesn't run like absolute crap.

I did like this though, keeping with the whole Mega Man theme of your post.

//
For me on the MMX Collection, the biggest issue is MMX1-3. I guess we could say hey, atleast they're keeping true to the original format, because it feels like it's direct emulation of the games when playing on a SNES rather than fixing the massive framerate issues the games have.

Niku-Sama
02-26-2020, 03:04 PM
Its all hooked up HDMI
The PS4 has LOS and the controller is a 500 Million (translucent blue) version, i think its the newer version your talking about
The PS3 was also using wireless controllers though, i think it was a sixaxis even because i am not a big fan of rumble (feels fake)

I'm currently working on a emulation computer for the front room, if i want to play a game with out having to dig out a bunch of stuff to hook it up to my PVM.
Plus with the threat of separation and moving looming overhead i'd rather keep as much stuff packed up, stickin an emulation system will keep me busy.

Side note, its interesting that this generation they are sneaking features in and not really telling the public when they do. Similar thing happened with xbone controllers, newer controllers have bluetooth built in, which is kind of an odd feature considering (from what i remember) xbone controllers work of RF with the console so the addition for BT is for...? Phones? PC/Laptop? PS4? (oh i should try that)

theclaw
02-27-2020, 05:38 PM
Aren't X4 and the later games native ports?
But I guess that doesn't explain why X3 didn't also use the PC version, which would've been considerably easier (then again AFAIK the Xbox versions of 1-8 are entirely x86, and Capcom didn't build the Legacy Collections from them either)


On the Switch the Megaman X collections run fine, so I'm not sure what the deal would be with the PS4 version.

It might be because Switch has much less operating system overhead.

Gameguy
02-28-2020, 01:54 AM
There's probably not enough demand for retro compilations for the effort to be worth it.
But rather than not develop or release a compilation at all, they'll still push one out to cash in on it while ripping off their fans and consumers. Really, if something won't be done well then it shouldn't be done, at least not if they expect people to pay money for it.

Aussie2B
02-28-2020, 10:19 AM
People will always quibble over what's "done well". For every person who hates screen borders you can't turn off, there's another person who won't play a game unless they can stretch it to fill the whole screen or at least fill in the black bars on the side with something. For every person who is bothered by input lag, there's somebody who'll say it's fine or that they don't even notice a difference. No matter how flawed, there are always some people who enjoy any given retro compilation, so I'd rather them exist for the people who do enjoy them than for there to be absolutely no legal way to acquire a retro game in the current market, forcing people to either pirate or track down old hardware and software that may be expensive and/or unreliable. I mean, I myself got a ton of use out of the Sega Smash Pack back in the day. Yes, I know the sound emulation is really messed up, but this was before I even owned a Genesis, so I was grateful for the opportunity to play a variety of Genesis games via that collection. It was the first time I played through games like Sonic 1, Phantasy Star 2, and Shining Force, and even with screwed up sound, I still had fun, enough so that Shining Force would become one of my favorite Genesis games.

Ideally, I want these compilations to be made with care and strive for accuracy, along with offering options that allow players to customize the experience to their tastes (as in, being able to turn off borders, etc.), but there has to be enough consumer demand for that to happen, and if the options are a flawed compilation or no compilation at all, I'll take the flawed compilation.

kupomogli
02-28-2020, 01:26 PM
Collections can also be a gateway for a new game. After the positive sales of the original Mega Man Legacy Collection and Legacy Collection 2, we soon after had an announcement for both Mega Man 11 and the X Collection.

However, what I and many, many, many other people want to see is a Mega Man Legends Collection and Mega Man Legends 3. How long have people been begging for a Mega Man Legends collection? To me it seems that people have been asking for a Mega Man Legends collection over another original, Zero, or X Collection. Mega Man Legends 2 sold poorly because it was after the release of the PS2, so it was overlooked. So despite how amazing and beloved this series is, Capcom refuses to make a third. Maybe releasing a collection on modern consoles and seeing it perform well we might actually get a third game in the series, much like how we later received Mega Man 11.

Edmond Dantes
03-02-2020, 11:49 AM
I recall hearing that all three Legends games are available digitally on the PS4 (or was it PS3?) as a sort of "apology" for cancelling Legends 3. I forget if there's any truth to this but I read somewhere there was some reason those games had to remain Sony-exclusive.

I dunno why that would be the case tho.

theclaw
03-05-2020, 08:25 PM
Engine inefficiency is another thing. Isn't the MT Framework absurdly excessive for 2D games? X Legacy Collection saw fit to mention it on the back of the box.


I recall hearing that all three Legends games are available digitally on the PS4 (or was it PS3?) as a sort of "apology" for cancelling Legends 3. I forget if there's any truth to this but I read somewhere there was some reason those games had to remain Sony-exclusive.

I dunno why that would be the case tho.

Not sure. Legends had PC and N64 ports, too little too late.

Edmond Dantes
03-08-2020, 07:24 AM
I forgot all about those ports. Supposedly the PC one had issues (at least according to one video I've seen) of the cutscenes losing sync with the sound, so Roll would still be talking when the Flutter is about to crash.

Which might itself explain a few things. Games are usually purpose-designed for a specific console and rely on its timings, this is why they usually run better on the intended platform and why emulation can sometimes be... not good. I've heard some people have played Mario 64 on PC with an emulator, but I can't imagine doing it without an N64 controller (even if you use an adapter, my experience is that emulators don't do absolute readings of the joystick but instead just detect the eight normal directions, which isn't quite the same as playing actual Mario 64 on an N64).

Apparently the PS1 has never actually been emulated, they just use a bunch of tricks and hacks to make PS1 games work on a PC or other platform, to the point where hacked roms of PS1 games actually won't play on real hardware (so if you wanna play that re-translation of FF7, get cozy... that said, FF7 actually plays well as a PC game, regardless if whether you're using PS1 discs or the old Windows port Eidos published way back when).

This could explain why old game compilations aren't up to everybody's standards.

Ryudo
03-10-2020, 03:55 PM
Anything M2 does is gold.

Tron 2.0
03-11-2020, 12:45 AM
Anything M2 does is gold.
For sure i just got the darius cozmic collection for switch and the emulation is very spot on.