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View Full Version : Just bought Smash Bros Ultimate...



Edmond Dantes
04-04-2020, 03:27 AM
...My first reaction:

"Why does this game boot up with a song that sounds like an anime opening from the 1990s?"

Not complaining, since the 1990s is when I most loved anime. It's somehow a little surreal hearing it in a sequel to a game I first discovered at around the same time.

Also I guess I need to invest in a Gamecube-style controller.

gbpxl
04-04-2020, 01:44 PM
I never got into the series past Melee. it seems like one of those games where theyre more concerned with cramming every conceivable character into the game as possible even if they seem strangely juxtaposed against the backdrop they find themselves in. just not my cup of tea but I know it has a massive following

Tupin
04-04-2020, 02:05 PM
The English language opening makes me, and I don't use this term lightly, cringe every time I hear it. It's mostly because the singer isn't very good IMO.


I never got into the series past Melee. it seems like one of those games where theyre more concerned with cramming every conceivable character into the game as possible even if they seem strangely juxtaposed against the backdrop they find themselves in. just not my cup of tea but I know it has a massive following
Not only that, but they keep doing this thing where a character gets in primarily as a way to promote a game rather than for popularity. Joker to promote the Persona series despite it being a mostly Sony thing, Byleth to promote the new Fire Emblem, and now an ARMS character because Nintendo wants to bring that game back. A slot is less a celebration of gaming now and more an advertisement. And really? I think most people get more entertainment out of thinking about what character will be next and talking about it than actually playing the game.

Edmond Dantes
04-06-2020, 04:44 PM
Wow, buncha cynics up in here!

For my part my only issues so far are just little things I remember Melee having but that aren't here--like an adventure mode and how you'd get titles like "Edge Grabber" or "Half-Minute Man" after finishing a stage/fight.

I'll admit, I have a reason to play Xenoblade Chronicles now since I kinda like Shulk. Altho the real DLC I'm looking forward to is Terry Bogard (already out) and I've heard that the Dragon Quest VIII hero is gonna be released soon, and I THINK I heard that Spyro the Dragon was gonna be in, but I may have misremembered that last one.

Tupin
04-06-2020, 07:08 PM
Heh, I guess you could say that. It's fun, but it has some stuff I really don't like in there too.

Hero is already out. Spyro would never get in before Crash Bandicoot, sadly. Especially because Crash is beloved in Japan and Spyro is seen as the epitome of "kusoge" (shitty game) because the Japanese localization of the first two games was botched.

Ryudo
04-07-2020, 12:31 AM
Smash is a celebration of games and every fanboy's dream of who would win in a fight. Thankfully unlike many clones and other attempts. Smash puts a lot of thought and detail in every character's move set being tied very specifically into that game/character. Smash is a series I feel gets better with each entry, mainly because of the roster and since Ultimate has everyone, it's amazing. A lot? Yes but not like they were just thrown in there with little care like PS All-Stars. With how wildly diverse the roster is,it's amazing it's as balanced as it is all things considered.

Edmond Dantes
04-08-2020, 11:37 PM
Hero is already out. Spyro would never get in before Crash Bandicoot, sadly. Especially because Crash is beloved in Japan and Spyro is seen as the epitome of "kusoge" (shitty game) because the Japanese localization of the first two games was botched.

Okay, Nintendo needs to update the eshop then, because it keeps saying that the contents of Ultimate Fighters Pass Season 2 is unknown--even if I look at each one individually--and that they won't come out until 2021.

I wish I had looked into this earlier, I instead bought Dragon Quest Builders 1 and so have to wait til next month to get the Season 2 Pass.

Also, personally I wouldn't mind Crash in here (I'm kinda surprised he's not, honestly)... but I was thinking either him or Spyro would make sense due to both having just had high-profile remakes of their old games, and like you guys said, Smash exists partially to advertise these days. I HOPE Spyro reignited helps rehabilitate the dragon in Japan, as well... I would rather have seen a Spyro JRPG than whatever crap Legend of Spyro was trying to pull.

Also, question for those who've played Kid Icarus Uprising: Why is there a "Dark" Pit? The in-game stuff only says he was created by a "Mirror of Truth" the bad guys had (seems kinda un-badguyish) and why is his stage this sort of apocalyptic version with Palutena's head appearing in the sky a lot like she's gone Tyrantlestia?

I don't have a 3DS or I'd just play the damn game.

EDIT: Also, as someone who has never played Animal Crossing.... Isabelle just seems like she's not even a combatant. What she's like in Smash kinda makes me think of Fluttershy but with Pinkie Pie's gimmicks.... and like I used to say about that cartoon, neither character seemed like they belonged in a combat scenario. Tho Smash gets a pass here since this isn't literally the character, just a toy or statue some kid is playing with.

What kind of game IS Animal Crossing, anyway?

Ryudo
04-09-2020, 01:19 AM
Animal Crossing is kinda like Nintendo's The sims with cute animals.

Tupin
04-09-2020, 03:19 PM
Okay, Nintendo needs to update the eshop then, because it keeps saying that the contents of Ultimate Fighters Pass Season 2 is unknown--even if I look at each one individually--and that they won't come out until 2021.

I wish I had looked into this earlier, I instead bought Dragon Quest Builders 1 and so have to wait til next month to get the Season 2 Pass.

Also, personally I wouldn't mind Crash in here (I'm kinda surprised he's not, honestly)... but I was thinking either him or Spyro would make sense due to both having just had high-profile remakes of their old games, and like you guys said, Smash exists partially to advertise these days. I HOPE Spyro reignited helps rehabilitate the dragon in Japan, as well... I would rather have seen a Spyro JRPG than whatever crap Legend of Spyro was trying to pull.

Also, question for those who've played Kid Icarus Uprising: Why is there a "Dark" Pit? The in-game stuff only says he was created by a "Mirror of Truth" the bad guys had (seems kinda un-badguyish) and why is his stage this sort of apocalyptic version with Palutena's head appearing in the sky a lot like she's gone Tyrantlestia?

I don't have a 3DS or I'd just play the damn game.

EDIT: Also, as someone who has never played Animal Crossing.... Isabelle just seems like she's not even a combatant. What she's like in Smash kinda makes me think of Fluttershy but with Pinkie Pie's gimmicks.... and like I used to say about that cartoon, neither character seemed like they belonged in a combat scenario. Tho Smash gets a pass here since this isn't literally the character, just a toy or statue some kid is playing with.

What kind of game IS Animal Crossing, anyway?

Hero was in the first Fighter's Pass but came out a while back. And yeah, Isabelle is in there because of popularity among fans.

Edmond Dantes
04-09-2020, 11:01 PM
Okay, another instance in the "I Am An Idjit" files...

So yeah, Hero is out and is part of Fighter's Pass Season 1... I didn't recognize him because the store page etc. uses the DQ11 Hero. Which confused me because the advert I caught on a Gamestop TV specifically showed the version from DQ8, so I assumed it would look like him by default.

Now that I know tho, I'm gonna see if I can find a way to make him always default to that look, since DQ8 is probably the best Bippydoo has ever looked.

Az
04-09-2020, 11:47 PM
Spyro is seen as the epitome of "kusoge" (shitty game) because the Japanese localization of the first two games was botched.

First I've ever heard of that, care to elaborate?

Edmond Dantes
04-10-2020, 12:57 AM
First I've ever heard of that, care to elaborate?

There's a collab video between Antdude and Caddicarus that explains it pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRwAQWGRpaY

Essentially, because apparently a lot of Japanese gamers were getting motion sick? from 3D gaming, they changed the camera and some of Spyro's moves, but these changes resulted in Spyro's gameplay flowing less well, a lot of instances of the camera actually being irritating due to stuff you can't see well, and the game was just less fun overall.

Aussie2B
04-10-2020, 11:16 AM
That doesn't make much sense. Were they actually getting feedback from Japanese players of the Western version, or were they just taking a shot in the dark as to what kind of 3D gaming would make Japanese gamers motion sick? I'm pretty similar to Japanese gamers in terms of the kinds of games that make me motion sick. First-person gaming is particularly problematic for me, but as far as 5th gen gaming goes, third-person games with especially low/inconsistent frame rates can also be a problem. But Spyro is both third-person and stays around 30fps most of the time. I played through the whole game, collecting 100% of everything, and I don't remember any point causing me motion sickness, not even a mild headache. I would guess most Japanese gamers would be fine with the Western version too. Even if the changes weren't for the worse, it still sounds totally unnecessary. It's as if they never actually consulted anyone who gets motion sick from games and only took action based on rumor and fear.

Tupin
04-10-2020, 05:27 PM
I haven't watched the video in a while but I do think they had Japanese gamers play the Western versions and people complained. Of course, it turned out to be a mistake because the majority of the Japanese audience probably wouldn't have been sick and they made their game actively worse to appeal to a minority. The games sold so poorly and had such a bad reception that the third game in the Trilogy never came out in Japan and I don't think any of the further games ever came out in Japan until Reignited. Again, meanwhile, Crash became a beloved import. Spyro being in Smash would probably make Japanese Smash fans upset, and the only time I remember that happening was with Little Mac.

Edmond Dantes
04-17-2020, 04:43 AM
That doesn't make much sense.

Most things the games industry does don't. I kinda started agreeing with Jim Sterling in that the industry seems run by effing morons sometimes.


It's as if they never actually consulted anyone who gets motion sick from games and only took action based on rumor and fear.

Which sadly is an atmosphere we still live in today and is pretty much what causes a lot of media to suck. It's pretty much why I don't get people who are beholden to corporations and loyal to their products, and why I tend to be doubtful that triple-A products are actually any good (so many people seem to mistake having a large budget for being a good game).

It's easy to forget that all the best games tended to come from nobodies who had no idea what they were doing, which is again something we still see now.

And I see a dragon next to me asking what any of this has to do with Smash, which even I thought was pretty good.

Aussie2B
04-17-2020, 12:01 PM
I don't know about the best games coming from nobodies who had no idea what they were doing. It doesn't take fame to make a great game, but it does take knowledge, experience, and talent in one field or another. Even in the earliest days of gaming, when the industry hadn't be around long enough for anybody to be especially experienced in video game making specifically, they still had experience in other applicable fields. They were already great programmers, engineers, designers, etc. of other types of products. When I look at today's indie scene, it's the games made by solo individuals that are often the most flawed, in my opinion. The creator may have a strong background in one field, but they're probably not equally knowledgeable in every component (programming, gameplay design, graphic design, sound engineering, music composition, etc.) So you may have, say, a game that plays great but has crap music. The best, most well-rounded indies come from small teams of people with different areas of expertise, who can also give feedback to the others. The more people know what they're doing, the better the game. Rarely does someone who has no idea what they're doing have a happy accident and produce something amazing in spite of their cluelessness.

Edmond Dantes
04-20-2020, 11:26 AM
It depends, I think, on what one values in a game. A person who values creativity or willingness to try things will probably be more impressed by nobodies than someone who prefers refinement.

That said I think at the time of my post I was mostly thinking of games like Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, Tetris, Doom, Myst, and Minecraft... all great games (well... Minecraft maybe not so much), all made by small teams or in some cases one person.

Gameguy
04-24-2020, 12:48 AM
It's pretty much why I don't get people who are beholden to corporations and loyal to their products, and why I tend to be doubtful that triple-A products are actually any good (so many people seem to mistake having a large budget for being a good game).
People tend to stick with familiarity, if one company produced something or several things in the past that were good quality and well liked, it's assumed that those same attributes will exist with their future products. It's so someone doesn't have to do research every time prior to buying something, like do I have to research what the best ketchup brand is every time I need to buy more ketchup? No, even if new companies start producing ketchup or other existing ones improve theirs, I'll most likely just stick with what I know to be satisfactory rather than keep looking for alternatives.

Basically if someone liked what Nintendo previously made, or they liked an earlier game in a specific series, they'll assume they'll also like the newest releases too.


It depends, I think, on what one values in a game. A person who values creativity or willingness to try things will probably be more impressed by nobodies than someone who prefers refinement.

That said I think at the time of my post I was mostly thinking of games like Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, Tetris, Doom, Myst, and Minecraft... all great games (well... Minecraft maybe not so much), all made by small teams or in some cases one person.
You can add the earliest Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts releases too, those were made by mostly small teams. Apple computers started the same way. At those early times games didn't need to sell as many copies to be profitable so people were more willing to experiment with new types of games or content/subject matter. Now that every game needs to be widely liked by as many people as possible, they're mostly generic and unmemorable. If you aim it at a specific type of audience it would probably alienate everyone else, so to play it safe they end up aiming it at everyone so nobody is really satisfied. The modern smaller studios or independent developers tend to care more about making the types of games that they personally want to play so they end up being more creative and memorable. I largely don't care about most modern games or modern movies anymore.

Aussie2B
04-24-2020, 12:26 PM
I think there's a pretty huge difference between small, unknown teams and people "who had no idea what they were doing".

Edmond Dantes
04-24-2020, 03:42 PM
People tend to stick with familiarity, if one company produced something or several things in the past that were good quality and well liked, it's assumed that those same attributes will exist with their future products. It's so someone doesn't have to do research every time prior to buying something, like do I have to research what the best ketchup brand is every time I need to buy more ketchup? No, even if new companies start producing ketchup or other existing ones improve theirs, I'll most likely just stick with what I know to be satisfactory rather than keep looking for alternatives.

Basically if someone liked what Nintendo previously made, or they liked an earlier game in a specific series, they'll assume they'll also like the newest releases too.

I understand this stuff, I was more thinking about people who act like a certain company informs a large part of their identity, like they have some sort of higher reason to stay loyal. People who continue reading DC or Marvel comics when all they do is criticize the companies, for example, or people who make it their mission to set out to play every new Kirby game that comes out even though they know full well not all of them will be good.


You can add the earliest Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts releases too, those were made by mostly small teams. Apple computers started the same way.

With Apple its somehow surreal that when I was in school we played on Apple IIe computers in computer lab but then I didn't hear much about them growing up, until suddenly they were big.


I largely don't care about most modern games or modern movies anymore.

Largely the same here. For me the litmus is usually whether or not I'm just interested in the premise or the subject matter--several games have sold me simply because I read the back of the box and it said it was a horror mystery taking place on a ship or in a haunted lighthouse or whatever and I'm like "that sounds interesting." Helps if they're cheap.

That's my litmus for books too--I often buy based on just if I find the premise interesting... and if the thing isn't overpriced.

Aussie2B
04-24-2020, 06:10 PM
Some people just like having an opportunity to compensate a developer/publisher/company as thanks for what they did enjoy in the past, even if they expect to dislike the new product. That applies especially if they bought the previous product(s) secondhand or on markdown and thus no or very little cash went to the company for the liked product.

Other people just don't mind taking a risk. I mean, realistically, you can't predict with 100% accuracy that you'll dislike something just based on which company put it out. Even if you've dislike liked many of the prior products, you could always be surprised. I mean, I'll buy just about game developed by tri-Ace. I've been let down by some of their releases, but I still have liked many too. Trying to predict which will be which is pretty much impossible, even if I heavily researched each individual title, which I don't want to do to begin with because time is money too. So I'd rather just spend the money and take my chances versus possibly missing out on some games I'd really love because I made an inaccurate prediction or possibly lose both my time AND money by spending time heavily researching a title, spending the money on it, spending even more of my time playing it, and still not liking it much in the end.

Edmond Dantes
05-01-2020, 05:48 AM
So back on Smash Ultimate, saw something that shocked me.

Was doing a battle and got an assist trophy that I had to pause and zoom in to recognize.... and it was Mr. Wright.

Mr. Wright.... a green-haired cartoon version of Simcity creator Will Wright, who only appeared in Simcity SNES and a few Japan-only Simcity games published by Nintendo.

I mean, its nothing for an assist trophy to be kind of obscure, but its amazing to me that there weren't any copyright/legal issues preventing this character from appearing.

EDIT: Also, one of the "Spirit" characters is called "Glory of Heracles Hero." Okay, I'm assuming this is from the Nintendo DS installment (fifth main Glory of Heracles game, sixth game overall, and only one to get OFFICIAL english release, tho the rest have fan translations).... but ummm..... okay, showing my ignorance here, but if the game is called "Glory of Heracles" and he's the hero, wouldn't he be Heracles? The only GoH I've played is the first one, where you do indeed play as Heracles.

(For those not up on mythology, Heracles is the original Greek name for Hercules... for some reason, Japan always prefers his Greek name--even in their dub of the Disney movie they renamed him--but everywhere else prefers his Roman name).

Aussie2B
05-01-2020, 11:03 AM
As far as I know, Nintendo owns the character Mr. Wright, even if it is based on Will Wright. The character is also in Link's Awakening (both the original and the remakes) as Mr. Write, and as far as I can recall, Will Wright isn't so much as in the credits for Link's Awakening.

Heracles is only the protagonist of the first Glory of Heracles and a Game Boy spin-off. He's in a support role in all the other games. It's a Legend of Zelda kind of deal. Just because a character's name is in the title doesn't mean they'll necessarily be the protagonist.

With Japan's unusual history of isolation and then rapidly absorbing information from the West via various sources, I'm guessing they learned about Greek mythology through a different source than the English-speaking world. For what it's worth, Greeks themselves, or at least Greek-Americans, who typically still speak Greek, have adapted to the Hercules spelling and pronunciation. It's actually not a terribly uncommon name to give boys of Greek ethnicity. My husband grew up knowing a few kids named Hercules.

Edmond Dantes
05-04-2020, 07:30 AM
My husband grew up knowing a few kids named Hercules.

So is he at a point where he goes insane every time he hears the "Jerkules" pun? ;)

My own guess for why Japan prefers "Heracles" was that it might have something to do with their language/alphabet. Maybe "Heracles" is easier to work into their language than "Hercules" is. He-ra-ku-ri-su... ha-kyu-ri-su.... okay, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here.