selling copy of 1990 nintendo world championships.

[seam]

ive decided to sell my copy of this extremely rare game on ebay, so heres a link for those of you who may be interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3042060317&category=3608


please tell anyone who may be interested as well. im hoping this game gets a good home, heh.
feel free to reply with any questions.

Seam

[nesuser2]

a few things, just out of curiousity. does anybody know why it doesn't work on the toploader?

and one other thing, am i the only person that believes a lower starting price discourages less people. if you tack $1 as an opening price on something that rare........more people will get into it. a ton of people will be interested for a couple hundred, and once the bid goes up a few more will push their pocket and overall, you get those people that are willing to pay 2000 to pay 2500 and the people willing to pay 1500 to pay 2000. just a suggestion and my own personal thoughts.

[omnedon]

Wow! What an IMPRESSIVE very first item for you to sell on Ebay. Your good feedback is all for buying.

What a big BANG to start with! Best of luck with your auction, first time seller!

[seam]

a few things, just out of curiousity. does anybody know why it doesn't work on the toploader?

and one other thing, am i the only person that believes a lower starting price discourages less people. if you tack $1 as an opening price on something that rare........more people will get into it. a ton of people will be interested for a couple hundred, and once the bid goes up a few more will push their pocket and overall, you get those people that are willing to pay 2000 to pay 2500 and the people willing to pay 1500 to pay 2000. just a suggestion and my own personal thoughts.

I have no idea as to why it doesnt load on the toaster nes. makes no sense to me, but im assuming it has something to do with the way it was programmed, like that odd chip switch interface thing, heh. and yeah, i know what u mean about the starting off at a dollar thing. i considered it for a while, but when it comes down to it, i just cannot except less than 2grand. its valuable not only moneywise, but to me personally as a gamer, you know? and i HATE reserve prices on auctions, so i didnt want to be a hypocrite and put one on there myself. So i guess really i just didnt want to risk getting less than that.


seam

[Darth Vader]

Good luck selling it! If it was a bit lower, I would be interested.

Danny

PS watch that high bidder, looks like a newbie on ebay to me!

[Buyatari]

I don't blame him. If I had an extra copy 2k is the LEAST I would accept. I'd rather buy one for $1,500.00 or so but what you guys have to realize is that there aren't many out there. Once the few that are out there get into the hands of those who enjoy them..... forget it. You'll have trouble finding one for 5k.

Adam

[wberdan]

i swear... am i the only one that thinks there are way more than 100 or so of these out there? why have several turned up with serial numbers over 0200? that would sure suggest there being at least over 200 made to me. are we crazy? we are talking about a game with a run of at least 100... i cant even believe that this thing sells for over 1,500.... its hype-

willie

[seam]

ok, i hear this sooooooooooo much. from what i have heard, its like this. and of COURSE I could be wrong, but this is what i have heard and believe. that nintendo did infact MAKE like 400 or so, BUT only 90 were given to the public. ive never even actually seen a picture of a cart that was #1-90, anyway. if that is true, i doubt nintneo will be giving away those other 300 carts anytime soon, they would be in a vault somewhere in a basement, heh. but yeah.


later

[wberdan]

ok, i hear this sooooooooooo much. from what i have heard, its like this. and of COURSE I could be wrong, but this is what i have heard and believe. that nintendo did infact MAKE like 400 or so, BUT only 90 were given to the public. ive never even actually seen a picture of a cart that was #1-90, anyway. if that is true, i doubt nintneo will be giving away those other 300 carts anytime soon, they would be in a vault somewhere in a basement, heh. but yeah.


later

so you think they just gave out ones with random serial numbers? yeah, sure. maybe that is true, but it seems highly unlikely.


willie

[1bigmig]

Possibly since it was a very limited run they made enough extras so that they could insure that at least 90 would have good chips. They were manufacted with x different numbers on the labels, but only 90 were chosen that worked correctly. Just a guess.

[dave2236]

I could be wrong too, but I don't think nintendo would keep the carts. When they were done using them they probably got destroyed or given/stolen by employees.

[orrimarrko]

Thought we've had this conversation before.

X number were made, and people OTHER than the winners got cartridges. That was confirmed by Jason Wilson.

As far as how many were made, it really is somewhat up in the air, but it was definitely more than 90 or 140.

Steve

[Buyatari]

It don't matter how many were made. It just matters how many are out on the open market and there aren't that many.

You can call me crazy but EVEN IF there were 500 on the open market this would still be a $500.00 game right now.

It is THE HOLY GRAIL of NES and maybee of all game collecting. It will only get harder to find and more expensive to buy as time goes on.


Adam

[Darth Vader]

It don't matter how many were made. It just matters how many are out on the open market and there aren't that many.

You can call me crazy but EVEN IF there were 500 on the open market this would still be a $500.00 game right now.

It is THE HOLY GRAIL of NES and maybee of all game collecting. It will only get harder to find and more expensive to buy as time goes on.


Adam

No disrespect Adam, but $2K would be on the high side for this game (even though this one looks great!). It is definitely very rare, I don't think anyone is arguing that point, I just believe the game isn't worth that right now.

You are also taking the prespective of a person who already OWNS this game, the people who don't own it obviously (including me) have a different point of view, thats all! ;)

I don't want to get off topic about this, since it is listed in the buying and selling and take away from the seller. If he can get $2K for it, all the power to him. An item like this it is obviously a SELLER's market for since it is so rare. I wish you luck in selling it, Seam!

That is all, thank you for your time!

Danny

[MarioAllStar2600]

You know, 2 grand is alot. But it probably oisnt that bad of investment in a couple of years you will be looking at like 8 grand probably. My only doubt with my collection is that I believe my generation will be the ones that make Classic gaming no longer be a hobby. I hope not, but I believe in a couple of years all of these games will be worth liek 100 bucks. Maybe im worong, and I hope I am but hey, you never know.

[1bigmig]

You know, 2 grand is alot. But it probably oisnt that bad of investment in a couple of years you will be looking at like 8 grand probably. My only doubt with my collection is that I believe my generation will be the ones that make Classic gaming no longer be a hobby. I hope not, but I believe in a couple of years all of these games will be worth liek 100 bucks. Maybe im worong, and I hope I am but hey, you never know.

I think you're right, I think this hobby will explode soon like comics did in the 90's and then it will eventually fall back to reasonable prices for most things. Hopefully if this comes to pass, I will have most of the games I want for my collection so I dont have to get them at inflated prices. It already seems to be on an upward trend from when I started about two years ago. But who knows, maybe prices will just keep gradually increasing.

[Raccoon Lad]

NES stuff does have the potential to increase in value for a long time. Most of the people who were huge NES fans back in the day, are in their mid-late 20's now, and by the time that generation starts having "life savings" and "mid-life crisis'", they'll start collecting NES stuff, potentially sending prices through the roof for uncommon games.
though, this has yet to be proven.

[wberdan]

It don't matter how many were made. It just matters how many are out on the open market and there aren't that many.

You can call me crazy but EVEN IF there were 500 on the open market this would still be a $500.00 game right now.

It is THE HOLY GRAIL of NES and maybee of all game collecting. It will only get harder to find and more expensive to buy as time goes on.


Adam

i really doubt that would hold true if there were 500 on the market... perhaps.
its such a novelty... does anyone that buys this game ever hold on to it for more than a year before selling it? its not like demand is that great for this game that it absolutely commands a 1500 price tag, is it?
maybe demand is that great... that is absolutely insane.
i think that this is simply a prestige cartridge and that is why it has high demade... people see it going for lots of money and automatically want it.. then when they sell it they try to get more and more money for it... thats the only reason i can see that this cart has gone from being like a $ 400 cart to a 1,500 cart in just a 4 or 5 years

[wberdan]

You know, 2 grand is alot. But it probably oisnt that bad of investment in a couple of years you will be looking at like 8 grand probably. My only doubt with my collection is that I believe my generation will be the ones that make Classic gaming no longer be a hobby. I hope not, but I believe in a couple of years all of these games will be worth liek 100 bucks. Maybe im worong, and I hope I am but hey, you never know.

I think you're right, I think this hobby will explode soon like comics did in the 90's and then it will eventually fall back to reasonable prices for most things. Hopefully if this comes to pass, I will have most of the games I want for my collection so I dont have to get them at inflated prices. It already seems to be on an upward trend from when I started about two years ago. But who knows, maybe prices will just keep gradually increasing.

didnt this hobby already explode? i mean, look at what people are paying for games nowadays--- and then compare this to like 10 years ago.... this is the plateau!

willie

[orrimarrko]

A few comments...

Willie - I totally agree about the "exploding" retort. Retro gaming is "in", and everyone who has some time and money to spend is definitely upping the ante on our beloved carts. There will be a decline after a while, it's inevitable. Look at the new Star Wars figures - too much product and artificially inflated demand has ruined that hobby. Now you can get just about anything you want (just about) for a song. I believe that the same thing will happen here, the dealers will overstock, and eventually have to lower their prices to eliminate their sunk costs.

On a different note, I agree to some extent about the NWC cart. There is NO WAY that the grey version should go for $2,000. A gold one, sure. The grey is no where near as rare as the gold one, and the last sale wasn't even double that. This cart used to go for about $500 - $800, and then it jumped into four digits. Next thing you know it's $1500, and now $2K?
No offense to the seller here, but I honestly hope that you DON'T sell it for two grand. That will set a trend for any future sales of that cart. When the value comes back down, the owner will have overpaid for a game that s/he could probably end up getting for a grand four or five years from now.

There are only a handful of production carts that are worth that kind of money, and sorry Adam, I don't think that this is one of them. If there were 500 of these puppies out in the wild that we knew about, I promise you that the value would drop like a rock. You would see them several times a year on eBay - people ALWAYS need money. And $500 for the grey cart is worth it, if there were 500 of them out there.

I honestly believe that the demand vs price on this cart has levelled out. If the sale was priced at $1000, it would be gone right now. For every $200 after that, you lose potential buyers. There is a bit of video game history associated with this cart, and the fact that sites like this proclaim how rare it is doesn't help to cut down on its mythology.

This is one of the nicest I've seen, and if it doesn't sell for $2000, then that should tell you something. Either the price is too high (which is what I'm guessing), or those who would pay it, can't afford to do so right now.

We'll see...

Steve

[Keir]

Since each NWC cart is numbered, has anyone thought to track them like the way Cubicolor carts are tracked?

[Buyatari]

There are only a handful of production carts that are worth that kind of money, and sorry Adam, I don't think that this is one of them. If there were 500 of these puppies out in the wild that we knew about, I promise you that the value would drop like a rock. You would see them several times a year on eBay - people ALWAYS need money. And $500 for the grey cart is worth it, if there were 500 of them out there.

Um isn't that what i said. I said IF there were 500 carts it would still be worth at least $500.00

If there were 500 of these out there more people would have the chance to get it. More people would consider it "needed" to complete the NES collection. The demand would actually go up but since the supply would also be greater we would end at a generally lower price.


This cart used to go for about $500 - $800, and then it jumped into four digits. Next thing you know it's $1500, and now $2K?


Now I don't know where you guys get your $500 and $800 numbers from but grey NWCs have sold for as much as 4k+ in the past.


didnt this hobby already explode? i mean, look at what people are paying for games nowadays--- and then compare this to like 10 years ago.... this is the plateau!


This is NO WHERE NEAR what an explosion looks like. When you see a video game system on the cover of Fortune with the caption "Best Investment of the last 5 years ?" when 80 year old grandmas say "Those old video games are worth ALOT of money" and when we have a monthy price guide available at every known place which sells magazines then you know your little hobby hit the big time.

Star Wars was a great movie series (until the last batch at least) but its a niche market. Like Star Trek or Pez. How many children buy action figures and play with them anymore? They are all bought up by collectors. Kids play games, adults play games, girls play games, rich play games, poor play games.
Video games are a part of our culture which escapes almost no one , a part of our modern day folklore.

Its gunna happen. I've studied other hobbies and how they have developed since their inception and this hobby is gunna take off one day. AND if it does. IF IT DOES take off then the cart you see in that auction will be worth a FORTUNE worth more than any other video game ever known.

I'm not saying any of this because I have 10 of these to unload. I'm saying this because I know it to be true. You can disagree but you can't change my mind. Just wait and see. I've studied every hobby which ever hit the bigtime (and a few which flopped) in detail from day one to present day. This hobby is next and that cart you see.... well thats its holy grail.


You are also taking the prespective of a person who already OWNS this game, the people who don't own it obviously (including me) have a different point of view, thats all!


And I don't own this game. If I had the extra cash I'd pay 2k because the label is damn nice but back to school is a rough time of the year for my business.

I own the gold one ;)


Adam

[dave2236]

First, I need a NWC cart and will end up buying one, sometime down the road. I'd shell out $2000 when the time comes.



Second

Star Wars figs
Beanie Babies
Cabage Patch Kids
Pokemon / Pokemon Cards
Power Rangers
.......all dead fads

[1bigmig]

This is NO WHERE NEAR what an explosion looks like... and when we have a monthy price guide available at every known place which sells magazines then you know your little hobby hit the big time.

Amen, the price guide example is exactly what I was thinking of.

[orrimarrko]

There are only a handful of production carts that are worth that kind of money, and sorry Adam, I don't think that this is one of them. If there were 500 of these puppies out in the wild that we knew about, I promise you that the value would drop like a rock. You would see them several times a year on eBay - people ALWAYS need money. And $500 for the grey cart is worth it, if there were 500 of them out there.

Um isn't that what i said. I said IF there were 500 carts it would still be worth at least $500.00

I was agreeing with you on this point.


If there were 500 of these out there more people would have the chance to get it. More people would consider it "needed" to complete the NES collection. The demand would actually go up but since the supply would also be greater we would end at a generally lower price.

I also agree to a point.



didnt this hobby already explode? i mean, look at what people are paying for games nowadays--- and then compare this to like 10 years ago.... this is the plateau!


This is NO WHERE NEAR what an explosion looks like. When you see a video game system on the cover of Fortune with the caption "Best Investment of the last 5 years ?" when 80 year old grandmas say "Those old video games are worth ALOT of money" and when we have a monthy price guide available at every known place which sells magazines then you know your little hobby hit the big time.

Star Wars was a great movie series (until the last batch at least) but its a niche market. Like Star Trek or Pez. How many children buy action figures and play with them anymore? They are all bought up by collectors. Kids play games, adults play games, girls play games, rich play games, poor play games.
Video games are a part of our culture which escapes almost no one , a part of our modern day folklore.

Its gunna happen. I've studied other hobbies and how they have developed since their inception and this hobby is gunna take off one day. AND if it does. IF IT DOES take off then the cart you see in that auction will be worth a FORTUNE worth more than any other video game ever known.

I'm not saying any of this because I have 10 of these to unload. I'm saying this because I know it to be true. You can disagree but you can't change my mind. Just wait and see. I've studied every hobby which ever hit the bigtime (and a few which flopped) in detail from day one to present day. This hobby is next and that cart you see.... well thats its holy grail.

This arguement is flawed for one major reason. You nailed it on the head with the Star Wars example. Toys can either be played with, which inherently keeps the values in check, or they can be collected. Perhaps both, but typically you either collect, or you play. Children rarely collect, they play. When they get bored, they move on. Since the Star Wars universe is catered to and dictated by collectors nowadays, the manufacturers are caught in a dilemna. Who do they cater to?

In video games, we basically have the same situation. There are collectors and there are gamers, and while not all gamers are collectors, most collectors are gamers in one way or another. The problem here is, that games are functional.

Many gamers view the games one dimensionally in that they are to play, and to sell or get credit when they're done with them.

Collecting games is clearly a niche market, and there are MANY subcultures within our hobby. The forums are a testament to this, as many people here only collect games that they want to play, as opposed to people like me - who want them all.

You are right - all kinds of people love and play games. But here's where I think that you are wrong - collecting, as a hobby, has many definitions. Collecting functional items with no intention of using them (like games) doesn't make sense to most people (at least all of my friends). So, you are really referring to people who would collect with the intent of using them as an investment.

I don't see that happening. I would rather dump $4,000 on a good market opportunity or a bunch of gold coins than a piece of plastic with a chip set. The stock may go down and the price of gold may falter, but if anything bad happened to that NWC cart and it didn't work - you have a $4000 piece of shit on your hands.

I'm not trying to change your mind, but I don't EVER see video game collecting as becoming a mainstream hobby. The interest is spiked right now because there is a large retro movement all across our culture - but that will eventually fade.

Steve

[rbudrick]

Since each NWC cart is numbered, has anyone thought to track them like the way Cubicolor carts are tracked?


Keir,

I sorta tried to do this once...not much luck.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2650


Shall we try again? OK....so who's got what? Number and color, please.

-Rob

[wberdan]

This is NO WHERE NEAR what an explosion looks like. When you see a video game system on the cover of Fortune with the caption "Best Investment of the last 5 years ?" when 80 year old grandmas say "Those old video games are worth ALOT of money" and when we have a monthy price guide available at every known place which sells magazines then you know your little hobby hit the big time.

Star Wars was a great movie series (until the last batch at least) but its a niche market. Like Star Trek or Pez. How many children buy action figures and play with them anymore? They are all bought up by collectors. Kids play games, adults play games, girls play games, rich play games, poor play games.
Video games are a part of our culture which escapes almost no one , a part of our modern day folklore.

Its gunna happen. I've studied other hobbies and how they have developed since their inception and this hobby is gunna take off one day. AND if it does. IF IT DOES take off then the cart you see in that auction will be worth a FORTUNE worth more than any other video game ever known.

I'm not saying any of this because I have 10 of these to unload. I'm saying this because I know it to be true. You can disagree but you can't change my mind. Just wait and see. I've studied every hobby which ever hit the bigtime (and a few which flopped) in detail from day one to present day. This hobby is next and that cart you see.... well thats its holy grail.

[quote]You are also taking the prespective of a person who already OWNS this game, the people who don't own it obviously (including me) have a different point of view, thats all!


And I don't own this game. If I had the extra cash I'd pay 2k because the label is damn nice but back to school is a rough time of the year for my business.

I own the gold one ;)


Adam


i think your perception of the investment potential for this hobby is off. by the way, what was this cart worth to someone ten years ago, realistically? $ 100 maybe? now we have people willing to shell out 4,000 for it (which is compeltely out there)???.. i would call that an explosion.

i agree with steve that money would be better placed in more secure areas of investment if that is what someone wants to do- invest.


willie

[portnoyd]

Man, this topic explodes. Gwah.

There are more than the 90 out there, as said. To prove that, I have emails from a while ago, of an engineer who worked on the NWC finals, and took home a grey. He, of course, lost it in a move, but he did have one. There are more than 100, at the very least, out in the open.

They have gone for sub-$1000, that is correct.

And $2000 is way too high. Especially as a starting bid. More power to ya if you get it, but jesus, I hope to only pay $1500 max for mine, in minty shape too. This will be in a year or so's time.

Holy fucking shit. I 100% agree with buyatari - I'm shocked, never thought it would happen. ;) This hobby will explode. Big. I'm counting on it!!! Hell, when my kids go to college, I'm hoping my collection pays for ALL of it, and allows me to take the funds to be used out of my paycheck for their college tuiton, towards a mortgage on some beachfront property. :)

And if the pop never happens, I still have all my games, and can sell them for break even money, guarenteed. If the pop is just a quick fad, believe me, I'll ride it for all it's worth.

I mean, shit. Video Life. 20 retailish copies? Only going for $2000 in 20 years? Ummm... how many Action Comics #1's are there, and it's 70 years old? And they go for, what, six figures? Sure it's Superman and VL is much newer, but rarity and being the only one to have it when it's 40 years old could make that Video Life you have worth that much.

One thing I'm waiting for is for Gamestop/EB to drop NES/Genesis/SNES sales. It'll be interesting to see what happens then.

dave

[Charlie]

This may be slightly off topic but didn't Captain Falcon sell his NWC cart for $6,000? I remember everyone told him he was nuts and it never would sell for that much, but low and behold, it did? Or am I mistaken?

[Buyatari]

People have collected some crazy shit in the past.

From fine art to first editions to coins to stamps to comics to baseball cards to action figures to video games I've studied each in detail from the earliest price guides to present day.

Hobbies grow as the collectors who collect them grow and they develop in stages. And each hobby affects the hobby that comes next.

For this discussion we will focus on childhood items which are the newest of all the hobbies. Comics , baseball cards , action figures etc...

STAGE ONE
--------------------
Young Adults seek to purchase what they had or didn't have as a child. No one collects this stuff but hell he just has to have it after his mom threw his old one out. He buys some at a flee market or garage sale and pretty soon he is hooked. Collectors in this stage of the game buy everything they can. Condition is not important just having the item is what drives them. Items are cheap and plentiful. Collectors soon find they are not alone. They trade ,swap , sell and resell. Lists of items are complied.

STAGE TWO
--------------------------
The hobby grows and condition is now somewhat important. Prices start to go up on the rare items. Some collectors no longer want incomplete items as they are running out of room or are upgrading. The rarest items are now the most valuable no matter the condition. Collectors are now comparing notes to see who has more. $200.00 for an old game? Are you kidding me?

STAGE THREE
--------------------------
Condition becomes more important. A mint common item is now not such a bad thing to have. Incomplete or bad shape items are very hard to sell. As more people enter the hobby they find they can't buy everything so they buy what they like. To bad all the people before them bought it all up. Common items with publiclly popular names aren't so common or cheap anymore.

STAGE FOUR
---------------------------
People not in the hobby now know that these items are collectable. Articles on the subject are seen on TV ,newspaper or in magazines from time to time. Conventions are in every major city at least 2-3 times a year. More known name items are now worth much more than rare unknown items.

STAGE FIVE
-----------------------------
Key items sell at public auction for the price of a small house. Everyone who was never interested in the hobby is now all of a sudden an expert and they are buying all they can. They are all certain they will become instant millionaires overnight.

STAGE SIX
---------------------------
All those people who started collecting in stage 5 now start to sell and at a loss. This causes a death of the hobby but the key items retain their value.
Anything which was overpriced is now very very cheap. Its hard to say where it can go from here. The hobby may start over or it may simply die.


Right now everyone wants Stadium Events. I can't see that title doing well in the future compared with other more known titles such as Zelda, Mega Man ,Final Fantasy etc. Complete MINT copies of these titles will be worth more than the rest. Crazy? Think about it. If the hobby takes off new collectors will start off looking for those titles they actually played. The added demand will cause huge price increases in what was once thought of as common games.

The problem with action figures goes back to stage one. No kid buys these anymore. No kid has any attachments to them so why would he try to buy the action figures from 2000 when he grows up in 2020? He won't. Thats why that hobby has a grim future in my opinion. Now cross-over hobby action figures from a certain movie or comic may do ok (thats another story) but don't expect any repeat of 1960-1980's action figures. Most of these new figures are being bought by speculators based on the results of those 1960-1980's figures. It ain't gunna happen. There just aren't gunna be the new collectors who will want them and as these speculators dump what they have well then it really kills the market.

Problem is by the time its obvious that a hobby is gunna take off its too late. You'll be a stage 5 wannabe. If video games do hit Stage 5 can you imagine what an NWC will be worth then? Its only those who got in when people weren't certain that the hobby was ever going to take off.

Risk? Yes there is a degree of risk involved. But video games are so much a part of popular culture nowadays and it just seems to increase every year. Theres almost no way for it not to. Just look to the kids - Do they do anything BUT play videogames anymore? If they ever collect anything how could it be anything other than videogames ?

Adam

[orrimarrko]

Adam,

That's a very well prepared argument, and has many good points. Of course the potential is always there for anything to become collectable.

However, I still believe that there will be a ceiling on prices for our hobby, and that we are rapidly approaching it.

All of the other hobbies you mentioned (in terms of collecting) are with non-functional items. Video games are the only ones that can be played ad infinitum, or just admired for their artwork (or whatever.)

Now, someone will say, "Can't you play with action figures?" or "Can't you read comics?", etc. Despite the obvious, that functionality essentially goes away when they become collectors items. Figures are not removed from their packages, and the comics are placed in mylar bags and filed away - usually never to be read again.

With video games, people WANT to play them. When there is no interest in the older systems, and no nostalgia to drive people to want to buy them, there will be very little demand, regardless of the supply. It's a lot like your kids of 2020 analogy in terms of Star Wars figures (I collected those for 26 years by the way.) People have to have an association with this kind of item for it to be collectable, desirable, and eventually profitable.

Again, I feel that this will always be a niche market, and you're speaking in terms of investment. By definition, the second you start buying games in a speculative manner, in the hopes of making a profit - you are no longer COLLECTING.

A collector would most likely not sell his Air Raid cart, regardless of the offer. The second he does, he should understand that he would most likely NEVER be able to finish his 2600 collection. Now collecting means different things to different people, so I'm not going to go there.

However, one thing I am certain of. Investors on the whole (because I deal with them every day) are not going to put their money in something they KNOW will eventually have a "STAGE 6". Even the worst roller coaster ride on the stock market will eventually have an upswing.

Collecting vs Investing. It's two different things in my opinion.

Steve

[Buyatari]

You don't think they will become collectable because people can play them?

Thats a major reason that they will be become collectable.

Adam

[wberdan]

People have collected some crazy shit in the past.

From fine art to first editions to coins to stamps to comics to baseball cards to action figures to video games I've studied each in detail from the earliest price guides to present day.

Hobbies grow as the collectors who collect them grow and they develop in stages. And each hobby affects the hobby that comes next.

For this discussion we will focus on childhood items which are the newest of all the hobbies. Comics , baseball cards , action figures etc...

STAGE ONE
--------------------
Young Adults seek to purchase what they had or didn't have as a child. No one collects this stuff but hell he just has to have it after his mom threw his old one out. He buys some at a flee market or garage sale and pretty soon he is hooked. Collectors in this stage of the game buy everything they can. Condition is not important just having the item is what drives them. Items are cheap and plentiful. Collectors soon find they are not alone. They trade ,swap , sell and resell. Lists of items are complied.

STAGE TWO
--------------------------
The hobby grows and condition is now somewhat important. Prices start to go up on the rare items. Some collectors no longer want incomplete items as they are running out of room or are upgrading. The rarest items are now the most valuable no matter the condition. Collectors are now comparing notes to see who has more. $200.00 for an old game? Are you kidding me?

STAGE THREE
--------------------------
Condition becomes more important. A mint common item is now not such a bad thing to have. Incomplete or bad shape items are very hard to sell. As more people enter the hobby they find they can't buy everything so they buy what they like. To bad all the people before them bought it all up. Common items with publiclly popular names aren't so common or cheap anymore.

STAGE FOUR
---------------------------
People not in the hobby now know that these items are collectable. Articles on the subject are seen on TV ,newspaper or in magazines from time to time. Conventions are in every major city at least 2-3 times a year. More known name items are now worth much more than rare unknown items.

STAGE FIVE
-----------------------------
Key items sell at public auction for the price of a small house. Everyone who was never interested in the hobby is now all of a sudden an expert and they are buying all they can. They are all certain they will become instant millionaires overnight.

STAGE SIX
---------------------------
All those people who started collecting in stage 5 now start to sell and at a loss. This causes a death of the hobby but the key items retain their value.
Anything which was overpriced is now very very cheap. Its hard to say where it can go from here. The hobby may start over or it may simply die.


Right now everyone wants Stadium Events. I can't see that title doing well in the future compared with other more known titles such as Zelda, Mega Man ,Final Fantasy etc. Complete MINT copies of these titles will be worth more than the rest. Crazy? Think about it. If the hobby takes off new collectors will start off looking for those titles they actually played. The added demand will cause huge price increases in what was once thought of as common games.

The problem with action figures goes back to stage one. No kid buys these anymore. No kid has any attachments to them so why would he try to buy the action figures from 2000 when he grows up in 2020? He won't. Thats why that hobby has a grim future in my opinion. Now cross-over hobby action figures from a certain movie or comic may do ok (thats another story) but don't expect any repeat of 1960-1980's action figures. Most of these new figures are being bought by speculators based on the results of those 1960-1980's figures. It ain't gunna happen. There just aren't gunna be the new collectors who will want them and as these speculators dump what they have well then it really kills the market.

Problem is by the time its obvious that a hobby is gunna take off its too late. You'll be a stage 5 wannabe. If video games do hit Stage 5 can you imagine what an NWC will be worth then? Its only those who got in when people weren't certain that the hobby was ever going to take off.

Risk? Yes there is a degree of risk involved. But video games are so much a part of popular culture nowadays and it just seems to increase every year. Theres almost no way for it not to. Just look to the kids - Do they do anything BUT play videogames anymore? If they ever collect anything how could it be anything other than videogames ?

Adam


i find it kind of amusing that you take the investment potential this serious... that is kind of frugged up.

willie

[punkoffgirl]

Is bit rot inevitable? Or does that only happen to EPROMS? I'm not very knowledgable on the subject, but I'm curious how that works into this. The games aren't going to work forever, what happens then? During THEIR shelf life 70 years down the road?

[Bratwurst]

Bitrot does not occur to ROM chips.

[punkoffgirl]

But won't something break down eventually and die? I want to know what that time frame is.

[orrimarrko]

You don't think they will become collectable because people can play them?

Thats a major reason that they will be become collectable.

Adam

What I am saying is that not every gamer will become a collector. Not ever collector will collect because it has "investment potential".

The fact that games are for playing, first and foremost (to, what I am sure, is an overwhelming majority of people) will preclude the need to collect games that you don't, or would never, play.

Convincing people that stockpiling functional items that will not be gathered for that function, serves well in certain hobbies (comics, stamps, coins), but I believe will have a hard time being accepted in the Video Game realm.

Just my opinion, but it takes a certain type of obsessive compulsive personality to want to complete a collector's checklist. Being one of those people, I don't do it because they are (or could be) valuable. Quite honestly, I wish they weren't. It would make things easier and cheaper, quite frankly. If they happen to get that way, bonus.

In my opinon, and I believe I'm right (although there's no way to prove this), the rise in prices over the past three or four years is caused by a combination of two things.

1. There is a huge "retro" movement going on now - it's cool to have anything, do anything, (etc) from the 70's and 80's. It's EVERYWHERE - I love the 80's (and 70's) shows on MTV, fashions, old defunct toy lines have returned (He-Man, TMNT, Care Bears, etc) - just about anything you can think of.

Combine the retro movement, with the feelings of nostalgia, and the fact that people who were kids then, now have cash to buy those things they couldn't have when they were kids, and voila!

A short-lived demand with a supply that is truly unmeasurable. Not everyone who is retro-gaming will give a shit about the NWC, let alone cough up $2,000 to get one. My feeling is that like all fads, this will fade out in time. I am already starting to see that there are more and more people selling their collections because they need money for other things. Combine that emulators (even though you may not like them), and the need to gather and collect carts, etc will dwindle even more.

2. Ebay. Plain and simple. I couldn't find many of the rarer NES carts that I have now without eBay. It gives people the ability to find what they cannot locally. However, the inherent nature of the auction, combined with a method of validating sales prices, has helped to cause the rise in prices. A typical $5 item may go for $8 on eBay, because the bidding process makes it easier for the price to rise. After all, if $.50 more will win you that auction, what's $.50? Now the price starts at $8, and goes up from there.

However, when the price goes up, inevitably, it will help to turn up more supply. People who have the item find out that the item is worth more (currently) than they though, and they want to cash in. What they don't realize is that the increase in supply doesn't necessarily mean that there is an increase in demand, and eventually there will be more than can be sold at that price. Hence, the price goes down.

I think that the rarest carts will ALWAYS have a marketplace, becuase the population of our hobby will ALWAYS be big enough to support the limited supply and demand ratios. However, for the common or plentiful carts, I just can't see it happening. Sorry.

Start hoarding complete 2600 Asteroids games and hang onto them for five years, and see what happens. Nada.

[1bigmig]

In my opinon, and I believe I'm right (although there's no way to prove this), the rise in prices over the past three or four years is caused by a combination of two things.

2. Ebay. Plain and simple. I couldn't find many of the rarer NES carts that I have now without eBay. It gives people the ability to find what they cannot locally. However, the inherent nature of the auction, combined with a method of validating sales prices, has helped to cause the rise in prices.

I agree, without Ebay I would probably either not be into this hobby or only have the minimal collection I could find locally or I would only purchase the most necessary games from online stores. I think eBay is the main reason for the rise in video game collecting. While the "retro movement" has some effect, without the ready access ebay provides to a slew of cheap, common game lots and the otherwise nearly unobtainable games, the core of this hobby would have remained small. I think it's more the fact that ebay caused the hobby to become more popular and so the prices went up, rather than the auction format artificially inflating prices - although this definately happens when something sells high.

[TokenGamer]

was the NWC cart given as cart only or did it have any sort of packaging/box/case???

[leonk]

Well...

that one didn't sell.. but here we go again.. different seller!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3044520082&category=3608

[Duncan]

What I am saying is that not every gamer will become a collector. Not ever collector will collect because it has "investment potential".

This is the reason I stopped collecting baseball cards a while ago. Way back when they were 50 cents a pack (from 1989-1992 or so) and included every no-name player from every single team, it was a lot of fun to try and complete a set. Investment had nothing to do with it, and it still doesn't -- though I'm certainly glad to know that some of my older stuff is beginning to appreciate a little as players from that era start to retire. Call it a bonus.

I returned briefly to my baseball card collection a year or two ago, only to find that I don't like what's happened to the hobby. Now, it's become nearly impossible to complete a set with all the parallel designs, artificially low print runs and special edition subsets. Woe to the collector who wants a complete set of just one brand of cards -- just by buying packs or boxes, it's never going to happen. Also, "graded" cards -- which are professionally inspected to determine exactly how perfect they are -- have become a hot market. This means that it's no longer enough just to have a visually "mint" card -- it has to be certified mint and encased in a plastic shell to prove its certification.

One hopes that this sort of obsession never reaches the rare/desirable corners of the video game hobby, or we're all screwed.


The fact that games are for playing, first and foremost (to, what I am sure, is an overwhelming majority of people) will preclude the need to collect games that you don't, or would never, play.

Hell, this is why I'm buying my games now. It's either to get the stuff I merely rented as a kid or (in the case of my growing Master System collection) to experience the games I never knew about until today.


Convincing people that stockpiling functional items that will not be gathered for that function, serves well in certain hobbies (comics, stamps, coins), but I believe will have a hard time being accepted in the Video Game realm.

One hopes so. The day you start seeing sealed copies of Super Mario Bros. or Sonic the Hedgehog fetch big prices on the open market is the day that this hobby will have gone too far. Those games were designed to be enjoyed in action, not as part of a static display. And once the investors realize that pristine video games are no fun, they'll start to sell.


Just my opinion, but it takes a certain type of obsessive compulsive personality to want to complete a collector's checklist. Being one of those people, I don't do it because they are (or could be) valuable. Quite honestly, I wish they weren't. It would make things easier and cheaper, quite frankly. If they happen to get that way, bonus.

Exactly. Refer to my first few paragraphs in this post -- I collected my old sets of baseball cards because it was easy and fun, not because I ever expected to make massive amounts of money from it. If someone else happens to put a value on my dirt-common 1987 Topps baseball set, that's fine -- I'm hanging onto it mainly for the thrill of having finished it off.


In my opinon, and I believe I'm right (although there's no way to prove this), the rise in prices over the past three or four years is caused by a combination of two things.

1. There is a huge "retro" movement going on now - it's cool to have anything, do anything, (etc) from the 70's and 80's. It's EVERYWHERE - I love the 80's (and 70's) shows on MTV, fashions, old defunct toy lines have returned (He-Man, TMNT, Care Bears, etc) - just about anything you can think of.

Combine the retro movement, with the feelings of nostalgia, and the fact that people who were kids then, now have cash to buy those things they couldn't have when they were kids, and voila!

A short-lived demand with a supply that is truly unmeasurable. Not everyone who is retro-gaming will give a shit about the NWC, let alone cough up $2,000 to get one. My feeling is that like all fads, this will fade out in time. I am already starting to see that there are more and more people selling their collections because they need money for other things. Combine that emulators (even though you may not like them), and the need to gather and collect carts, etc will dwindle even more.

You know, I had a whole bunch of He-Man toys when I was little. Still do, actually, though I haven't touched them in a long time. I thought it was cool to see that Mattel was creating a new series of He-Man figures (to go along with a new TV show on Cartoon Network), but I had no strong desire to collect these new figures. I tend to take the opposite view -- I was there at the beginning and I already have the originals, so why waste my time and money on a set of the new ones?

In regards to the NWC cartridge -- I remember reading about the contests in Nintendo Power way back when, but I don't recall having a strong need to get the cartridge. And I still don't, mainly because it's more of a fringe item to me than a needed part of an NES collection. The same goes for prototypes -- they're interesting, and certainly worth a good deal of money, but to me there's not a lot of reason to search them out over a readily available production cartridge or disc.

Let's hope that the "fad-finders" escape this hobby pretty soon -- as it is, I can't find a lot of Genesis carts that I know should be readily (or at least reasonably) available. Unless someone's hoarding them, I don't see why they're so tough to find. Which leads me to...


2. Ebay. Plain and simple. I couldn't find many of the rarer NES carts that I have now without eBay. It gives people the ability to find what they cannot locally. However, the inherent nature of the auction, combined with a method of validating sales prices, has helped to cause the rise in prices. A typical $5 item may go for $8 on eBay, because the bidding process makes it easier for the price to rise. After all, if $.50 more will win you that auction, what's $.50? Now the price starts at $8, and goes up from there.

However, when the price goes up, inevitably, it will help to turn up more supply. People who have the item find out that the item is worth more (currently) than they though, and they want to cash in. What they don't realize is that the increase in supply doesn't necessarily mean that there is an increase in demand, and eventually there will be more than can be sold at that price. Hence, the price goes down.

Such is the way of the market anyway -- the difference is that eBay, unlike a regular local auction, allows anyone to get involved and bid up to what they can afford. Which is why some people have begun to make big money there on the rare stuff -- but I believe that as the big-money collectors begin to complete their collections, eBay prices will begin to come down. (That goes for more than just video games, too.)

And I personally welcome any increase in supply -- supposedly, that's what made the sports card market of the mid-1990s virtually worthless, though it certainly helped me to complete a few sets at bargain prices.


I think that the rarest carts will ALWAYS have a marketplace, becuase the population of our hobby will ALWAYS be big enough to support the limited supply and demand ratios. However, for the common or plentiful carts, I just can't see it happening. Sorry.

Start hoarding complete 2600 Asteroids games and hang onto them for five years, and see what happens. Nada.

:) Same goes for Sonic, SMB/Duck Hunt and Crash Bandicoot. And I hope it stays that way, thanks.

Duncan :D

[seam]

[quote="leonk"]Well...

that one didn't sell.. but here we go again..


what are u talking about. why do u say it didnt sell

it did. did u not look at the auction.

anyway

later

[Achika]

[quote=leonk]Well...

that one didn't sell.. but here we go again..


what are u talking about. why do u say it didnt sell

it did. did u not look at the auction.

anyway

later

I think he knows it got a bid, but it's from a 0 f/b user, but good luck getting your $ for it.

[Darth Vader]

[quote=leonk]Well...

that one didn't sell.. but here we go again..


what are u talking about. why do u say it didnt sell

it did. did u not look at the auction.

anyway

later

I think he knows it got a bid, but it's from a 0 f/b user, but good luck getting your $ for it.

Not only a zero feedback user, a zero feedback user registered in Belgium. Enjoy insuring that game overseas! :roll:

Danny

[leonk]

Exactly..

maybe it's just someone who registered to piss off the seller? Imagine the eBay fees on that one!

[bobdrywalls]

man, i just wish i had a nwc cart.

[Mr. Yeah]

man, i just wish i had a nwc cart.

yeah

[nesman85]

Bitrot does not occur to ROM chips.
correct, but does the nwc contain roms or eproms? i was told by daniel bloom (nesguy123) that it contained eproms, and he used to own one. i've never seen the insides of one for myself though. But to answer POG's question, i don't think it will matter much, you can just burn new eproms and put them in. same goes for prototypes, the only difference is that the original labels on the eproms wouldn't be there, but you could still save those original chips for your collection, or just keep the dead cart and play the rom on your computer (if a backup was made).

[Bratwurst]

Indeed, nesman85, a scan of a NWC cart's insides is just one of those things that has yet to float around on the internet.

[Ed Oscuro]

It is THE HOLY GRAIL of NES and maybee of all game collecting. It will only get harder to find and more expensive to buy as time goes on.

Excuse me for saying this, but that sounds rather silly. Within the confines of this poor, relatively unnoticed country the NES "world" championship cart may be very popular as a collecting grail, but outside there's competition for that title. Take the ramen noodle company edition of Famicom Gradius, or the various extremely rare PC-Engine Darius Alpha competition titles. Of course, I can't say what sort of following these games have there...if one simply knows about the existence of the literally hundreds of prototype game units over there put out by every company from Bandai to NEC, this silly little cartridge doesn't seem as interesting anymore.

Besides, everybody knows the NWC was a sham anyhow...they stripped the winner of his title later down the road.

[Ed Oscuro]

However, I still believe that there will be a ceiling on prices for our hobby, and that we are rapidly approaching it.

That really depends. What are we talking about? Items that are truly popular (i.e. Zelda games, big-name stuff, again) should exhibit slow, somewhat stable growth in value, but not much more than inflation and some adjustment for items being kept off the market (could be wrong, but that's what it looks like).

Buying low-production run carts is a bad idea, for a simple reason:

The lesson of the Van Goghs.

In the late 1980s, everybody was convinced that their Van Goghs would sell for millions...they did. Soon enough, however, the price was truly distorted and people realized that nobody would buy them at this price because of any merits of the painting--it was all an illusion held by people with lots of money, especially one revenge-oriented elderly Japanese businessman who was buying to make up for his collection being sold earlier after a near bankruptcy. Tellingly, the people who actually dealt and cared for paintings on a regular basis, and the people involved with the auction business, saw the crash in prices coming. I don't like Van Goghs much, nor do I like the NWC cart: therefore, I don't expect that other people will and put money there.

If you feel like spending lots of money on a game, use at least one test to decide whether you like it: do you feel uneasy (if so, don't do it) and would you brag to non-collector friends about it (if not, don't do it, again).

I can't forsee whether the NWC cart has peaked, or if it ever will, but I don't see it as an investment. I see Neo Geo games as a slow growth investment, and that's about it for the hobby, for now.

[Darth Vader]

Bitrot does not occur to ROM chips.
correct, but does the nwc contain roms or eproms? i was told by daniel bloom (nesguy123) that it contained eproms, and he used to own one. i've never seen the insides of one for myself though. But to answer POG's question, i don't think it will matter much, you can just burn new eproms and put them in. same goes for prototypes, the only difference is that the original labels on the eproms wouldn't be there, but you could still save those original chips for your collection, or just keep the dead cart and play the rom on your computer (if a backup was made).

I don't know the difference between roms and eproms, but now that I have one, I opened it up and it doesn't look anything like a prototype, which contains eproms, right?? It looks like the inside of a KOEI NES game (one damn big board on the inside). This wasn't a thrown together item. It was done very professionally. The board covers the entire inside of the cart and all the chips sets appear to be soldered down just like a normal NES game . I am not even concerned about the bit rot, but maybe I could post a pic to help you out.

On a side note, I had no idea how much FUN this game is! I played it for quite a long time last night.

Danny

[Bratwurst]

Danny, generally EEPROMS will have windows on the chips, or labels covering those windows, etc. While mask-roms found in commercial games just have flat black surfaces. If they are mask-roms, it will make the production behind the NWC carts all the more interesting as they are / were very expensive to produce in such limited batches (200-500 units)

[TRM]

Danny, I would be interested in seeing a picture of the inside if you want to take one.

[Darth Vader]

Danny, generally EEPROMS will have windows on the chips, or labels covering those windows, etc. While mask-roms found in commercial games just have flat black surfaces. If they are mask-roms, it will make the production behind the NWC carts all the more interesting as they are / were very expensive to produce in such limited batches (200-500 units)

Ahh! I did notice 2 chips had windows on them.


Danny, I would be interested in seeing a picture of the inside if you want to take one.

I'll do that and post a picture here, I will have dave2236 host it for me or have Joe (if he could) host the pic for me.

Thanks

Danny

[Darth Vader]

OK, here are the pics (thanks to dave2236 for hosting these for me, sorry about the quality, my camera isn't the best quality)



http://www.angelfire.com/hero/nesgod/NWC1.JPG

The only different chips are the two on the bottom right, they have a see through window with a small chip inside the chip.

Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Danny

[dave2236]

Guess what I get to play tomorrow. :-D

[leonk]

Those 2 chips with the holes in them are EPROMS..

so in 20 years, you know most of these carts will be gone..

I hope you sealed up that cart right after opening it.. heck, I would have went as far as putting some small sticker (or electrical tape) on those windows.. it'll make the EPROMS hold their data longer.

You can always make sure there's a valid dump of those chips out there, so if they do go, you'll be able to burn new ones and solder them there.

LK

[Bratwurst]

I hope you sealed up that cart right after opening it.. heck, I would have went as far as putting some small sticker (or electrical tape) on those windows.. it'll make the EPROMS hold their data longer.

You can always make sure there's a valid dump of those chips out there, so if they do go, you'll be able to burn new ones and solder them there.

The stickers don't really do much since the cartridge is enclosing the chips anyway. UV rays from the sun are pretty nill when it comes to erasing chips too, they'd have to be sitting out on the roof getting bleached over the course of several weeks and I doubt the Sith lord is gonna do that. :D

I'd get a dump of the cartridge but personally wouldn't touch the soldering on something as expensive as this. The heat from removing solder on traces and the PCB itself can stress and damage the circuit board. From my perspective (so long as the software were preserved on another medium) it's worth more intact and unaltered as a 'historical' piece.

BTW that was really nice of you to post a picture of the NWC's innards, Darth.

[leonk]

You don't have to remove the chip via solder to read/write it..

The only thing I'm not 100% sure about is EPROM quality.. it can loose data, but when you erase the chip and reprogram, does it reset it to brand new condition in terms of data retainability?

Thanks for the picture.. it really shows us that Nintendo made a special board for this, and using EPROM's shows that it wasn't massed produced.

LK

[Darth Vader]

You don't have to remove the chip via solder to read/write it..

The only thing I'm not 100% sure about is EPROM quality.. it can loose data, but when you erase the chip and reprogram, does it reset it to brand new condition in terms of data retainability?

Thanks for the picture.. it really shows us that Nintendo made a special board for this, and using EPROM's shows that it wasn't massed produced.

LK

No problem. :D I will have a better pic posted tomorrow when Dave comes over with his digital camera. Also wanted to point up the the board itself says "NES EVENT" in the top left corner.

Danny

[Bratwurst]

You don't have to remove the chip via solder to read/write it..

Have you ever done this before? There are two eeproms on that board in a series circuit, not to mention the other components that could get damaged from the voltage of the writer.

[leonk]

I have written to EPROM style device in circuit.. you just really have to know what you're doing and how to isolate the other devices.

Mind you most of the devices I write in circuit are different than NES boards.

Worst case senario is that the chips can be removed, and put back in. A pro can easily do it with the right tools to the point where one will never be able to tell it was done in the first place.

Plus, these are old style EPROM chips.. they go right through the PCB.. so they're very easy to work with. Try to work with those surface mounted ones, now we're in a total different ball game. :-D

[dave2236]

Ok, updated DV's pic...much clearer now. ALSO this is one of the coolest games, I have played...very addicting. I'll just ask real quick, what was the high score for finals? and what score won?

My first game was 1,360,460....but my 8th was 2,990,000


http://www.angelfire.com/hero/nesgod/NWC2.JPG

[Darth Vader]

Dave:

You have just convinced me that it is time to buy a new digital camera! :D Considering mine is 4 or 5 years old, the pictures your camera had taken look awesome!

Danny

[bobdrywalls]

is there anyway you can copy this game? i would pay dearly to get a copy.

[Darth Vader]

is there anyway you can copy this game? i would pay dearly to get a copy.

I have no idea, but I won't have anything to do with that.

Danny

[dave2236]

Hey, I don't know if anyone cares...but I do. I found this story and a few other stories about the NWC cart.

supposedly 6 minutes was the limit and 800,000 was the highest score at the time....usually 300,000 - 400,000

http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/nwc.html


I got 1,300,000 my first try and almost 3,000,000 my 8th try. ALSO I never played Rad Racer before I played it on NWC cart.....tell me I didn't blow away the winners score?

I also did mine in 5 minutes and crashed on level 16 of tetris.

[orrimarrko]

Dave,

When did you get this beauty?

Last I knew, you didn't have this one.

Steve

[Darth Vader]

Dave,

When did you get this beauty?

Last I knew, you didn't have this one.

Steve

Actually Dave doesn't have this. I bought it. He came over by my house on Sunday to play it. He kicked my ass since I am not as good on tetris as him. :) Time to practice I guess. 8-)

Danny

[Achika]

is there anyway you can copy this game? i would pay dearly to get a copy.

Why not just buy Tetris, Rad Racer & SMB 3?

[udisi]

btw, the gold nwc are the same board...I actually opened mine up a while ago and could have told you they have eeproms, but I hadn't look at ths thread for a while...

[Captain Wrong]

is there anyway you can copy this game? i would pay dearly to get a copy.

Why not just buy Tetris, Rad Racer & SMB 3?

LOL

[orrimarrko]

Dave,

When did you get this beauty?

Last I knew, you didn't have this one.

Steve

Actually Dave doesn't have this. I bought it. He came over by my house on Sunday to play it. He kicked my ass since I am not as good on tetris as him. :) Time to practice I guess. 8-)

Danny

I actually meant to type "Danny", but apparently Dave came out (damn fingers.)

Care to share any of the details on the purchase?

If not, that's understandable.

Thanks,
Steve

[Darth Vader]

Ended up working out a deal with the starter of this thread: seam. Paid 1/3 of the agreed price up front and the balance after delivery. Was very happy with the purchase.


Why not just buy Tetris, Rad Racer & SMB 3?

It is just not the same, believe me, this game is so much better. :)

Danny