Genres that don't age well

[Half Japanese]

I was thinking the other day about how many genres generally don't hold up to the test of time (i.e. become worse as the years pass). Here are my thoughts on some genres that tend to lose their luster over the years, feel free to add your own:

Racing games - by this I'm talking about the NES/SNES games that were nothing more than sitting still in front of a moving foreground (you know the type)

3D games - by this I mean early ps1/saturn games that just look like arse by today's standards and don't hold up terribly well overall

Fighting Games - sure some are still great, but how many people still play a lot of very early fighting games on a regular basis?



On the other side of the coin, you have many genres that tend to age well and in some cases get even better with time:

Platformers - there is NOTHING like a good 2d platformer

RPGs - many people still love these things after many years (I still can't stand them :D)

Sports - most old sports games are better than their modern incarnations imo. You can't beat games like Tecmo Bowl, Baseball Stars or Nintendo World Cup. You just can't.


What are your thoughts on this topic?

[josekortez]

I think fighting games are long-term games because they have a lot of replay value if you mean later 2D series like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and King of the Fighters, and 3Ds like DOA, Tekken, and Virtua Fighter. If you just have a few minutes to kill, you can always play a few rounds and stop. A few beat-em-ups fall into this category, but not many...

Puzzle games stand the test of time for the same. Tetris, Puyo, and Tetris Attack are great examples of games like this. Most puzzle games aren't graphics-intensive, but they are simple and addictive...

First-person shooters and shmups don't lose their luster because they're addictive, allowing you to rank up more frags or points. Even if you learn all the enemy patterns on either, those games are great stress relievers...

For me, adventure games and platformers get old quickly because once they're beaten, you don't want to replay them. Even if you don't beat them, they're sometimes too frustrating to return to. Same with most RPGS (of course, I don't include Harvest Moon in this group). :) And the appeal of most sports games doesn't last more than a season...

Oh, and I recently picked up Jumping Flash 2, and it wowed me more than the first time I saw Super Mario 64...still, I think it's just the resolution of everything post-Dreamcast...Dreamcast makes most systems before it look kind of crappy by comparison.

[hydr0x]

what? i totally disagree with your 3 genres here, i still like those games a lot

[omnedon]

I think, tech wise, racing games do suffer over time. That may be diminishing, as time goes on, since 3D came along. I see the advent of 3D being particularly kind to racing games. Since Virtua Racing, it's hard to go back to any kind of spite based racer, for me anyway. It's about sense of speed, and it was a sea change when 3D came along for this genre.

[Flack]

For those who missed it, here is a link to Gamespy's list of "top 10 dead genres". Good stuff.

http://www.gamespy.com/top10/march03/genres/

Flack

[Jorpho]

How about button-mashing sports games? Or sports games in general? (After all, who plays NHL '95 when they can play NHL 2k3?)
________
Gm Foods (http://gmfoods.info/)

[TRM]

I disagree with the three genres as well. Micro Machines on the NES has held up pretty damn well. On another note, I was playing the original Rad Racer the other day, and I played it for hours on end. To think I didn't even like the game too much as a kid.

[IntvGene]

Really, I think that it depends how far back you are willing to go. Sure, everyone enjoys Baseball Stars and Tecmo Bowl. But, who really plays Atari Football anymore? Or the original Baseball?

Fighting Games: I think that the old ones are just as much fun as the new ones. Sure, there are flashy 3-d graphics for all the new ones, but I still prefer the 2-d ones like Samurai Shodown or Vampire Savior, or even SF. Going all the way back, I still play games like Karateka, and Karate Champ with friends. Can't say that Urban Champion was ever fun though...

I know we've talked about this before, but better graphics don't mean a better game. But, there are some genres, like Sports, where the newer consoles can do more to emulate the real game. And, in sports, playing something as close to the real thing is fairly important. Puzzle, Fighting games, platformers are fun for just what they are. The newer ones look better, but don't play tons better most of the time. More buttons and combos do not equal better game.

[The Unknown Gamer]

You should catch the lastest episode of Judgement Day on G4TV. The two hosts almost got in to fight over this very subject. They were reviewing Capcom vs SNK EO for the XBOX. Which is basically a 2-D fighters over a 3-D background. Like they said you either love this genre or your gonna hate it. For that is what I am seeing here. Me I am staying neutral.

[Shadysmurf]

unfournately for them I would'nt even begin to consider "Maze" as a genere..Maze would fall under puzzle so in actuality they have 9 Generes and I would'nt really consider Virutal Reality a Genre ethier

[jaydubnb]

Most racing games have aged horribly...its hard to go back to em after seeing the ultra smooth scaling of today. Either they look incredibly crappy in terms of scaling (ie, Victory Run) or like yourre plastered against a moving background (ie Top Gear). Graphics is a racing game are more important than in prehaps any other genre: its vital to create the illusion of depth, movement, and speed. In fact, the almighty Outrun is the only racer from back in the day that is still just as much fun now as it was then.

And i think that most sports games that tried to be accurate sims of real life sports leagues have not held up. However, the ones that were intended to just be fun romps (Baseball Stars NES, Baseball Stars II NEO*GEO) are still classics and are incredibly playable. Games like RBI Baseball are total ass now.

And fighting games from the past are still highly enjoyable....I can still enjoy the early Street Fighter 2 games because, frankly, not really that much as changed. You attack, block, do a special move. Even with the advent of 3D fighters, those three still were the basics of the genre.

[RetroYoungen]

I think all genres can stand the test of time, but not all of the games IN those genres do. Games like Street Fighter and Puyo Puyo stand the test of time because they're good games, but games like Puzzle Link and Battle Arena Toshinden (though I still like both of them) don't particularly stand well.

And I agree, nothing like a good side-scroller. Games like Super Mario World and Rocket Knight Adventures were good in their heyday, they're good now, and they're still be good for years to come.

[YoshiM]

I don't know if genres can really "age" per se to the point of not being good. They evolve more so than anything. The racing genre (for example), at its core, hasn't changed but the technology that presents it has a great deal.

[ClubNinja]

After all, who plays NHL '95 when they can play NHL 2k3?

Allow me to change a few dates here, though the same applies to 95 vs 2K3...

I'll take NHL 94 on the Sega CD over NHL 2K2 on the Dreamcast any day (and I do own and enjoy both.) As great of a hockey simulation as 2K2 is, NHL 94 is just way more FUN. That's of course only my opinion, though I know I'm not alone... you know who you are out there ;)

[IGotTheDot]

I have never needed to buy another hockey game since 1993 when NHL 94 came out.

[The Manimal]

I really think no specific genre ages poorly. If a game really WASN'T that 'fun' to begin with...then I could see it aging poorly.



TECMO SUPER BOWL is still the best football game ever!

Those 16-Bit EA NHL games are still lord!

(Original) Tetris is still the best version of Tetris.


In a general sense, however, newer technology has improved the genre's overall. Avg quality of any sports game is higher than it ever was....but on an individual basis, it's not necessarily true.


Wayne Gretzky Hockey VS Wayne Gretzky 3-D Hockey

They both suck!

[Kid Fenris]

Yes, it's pretty much a given that any well-made game ages well, regardless of its genre. Still, there are some titles that were merely decent years ago, and they haven't held up over the years. I enjoyed RPGs like Lufia and some of the Bard's Tale titles when I was a kid, but they have too much repetitive combat to drawn me in as they once did.

[Classicgamesdepot]

Hehe I would tottaly have to disagree with the tetris post, Tetris attack is soo much fun with a friend, the original tetris didn't even have a two player mode (at least the nes version didn't)

I would have to agree with the posts about sport games that tried to really simulate a real game, I wouldn't go back to almost any of em, it's almost like why play nhl2k when there is nhl2k2002?

[shoes23]

I believe that rail shooters are on the decline. The initial appeal to games like Lethal Enforcers, Time Crisis, ect seem to be fading, especially on todays next-gen consoles. The PS2 has seen an array of sub-par lightgun shooters (End Game, Ninja Assualt, Dino Stalker).

My personal opinion- we will still see rail shooters, however, only as a smaller part of a game, especially in the FPS catagory. Arcades should be able to keep the genre alive with new gimmicks and expensive hardware, but for console lovers, I think they may be out of luck.

[tylerwillis]

If you look at the value side, I think it's clear that most sports games don't age well. Admittedly, there are classics out there... but when the latest (2005,2k5,ad nauseum) comes out, the value of the previous incarnation plummets.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Racing games - by this I'm talking about the NES/SNES games that were nothing more than sitting still in front of a moving foreground (you know the type)

3D games - by this I mean early ps1/saturn games that just look like arse by today's standards and don't hold up terribly well overall

Fighting Games - sure some are still great, but how many people still play a lot of very early fighting games on a regular basis?



Racing games, sometimes, yet I'll still play Outrun SMS or Genesis any day of the week

3D Games? Nah doesn't bother me a bit

Fighting Games? HELL NO! I still play 2D Fighters/3D Fighters regardless of how old they are!

Only genre that gets ugly after so many years imho is honestly nothing. The only time you consider it ugly is if you just give up on it and ignore it. Sports games age horribly during their 3D prime though.

[Yago]

IMO I don't think top shooters are what they uses to be. Great graphics and sound does not make a game better. I still prefer Twin Cobra or 1942 over anything recent, and Banshee on the Amiga.

[Cthulhu]

I agree with the "realistic sports games don't age well, arcade-ish fun ones do" statement. Baseball Stars, Ice Hockey, Super Tecmo Bowl, etc, are all still fun. Madden 199X, NHL 199X (I respectfully disagree with the people who mentioned NHL 1994 as still being fun :wink 2: ), and the other yearly sports games simply don't.

I think overhead racers like Micro Machines and isometric racers like RC Pro-AM have held up well, but the pseudo-3D games like Rad Racer and early 3D racers like Virtua Racing haven't.

Fighting games continually evolve and become more complicated, which turns a lot of people off now, but I think they generally become better as time goes on. If given the choice, I'll play Street Fighter Alpha 3 over Street Fighter II any day. There are some real standout fighers in my mind: Street Fighter III: 3'rd Strike, Guilty Gear XX #Reload, Vampire Savior, Capcom Vs SNK 2, and Marvel Vs Capcom 2 - but most of those are relatively new. If they made a new one in each series, odds are pretty good that it would be better than the old one. The only real exception to this that comes to my mind is Guilty Gear Isuka, which is TERRIBLE. :bad-words:

Platformers generally age pretty well if you ask me. Even the good 3D ones stay pretty fun when the graphics get old - I love Mario 64 to this day.

I think RPGs age well, but only from the 16-bit era on. People who played 8-bit RPGs when they were new might still enjoy them (I do :D ) but I don't think people who were raised on post-Final Fantasy VII games will like Dragon Warrior very much. Tons of redundant combat for level gaining doesn't stand up to the test of time. Action RPGs / "Adventure" games, like Zelda, stand up very, very well. So do most strategy RPGs.

And since different versions of Tetris are being mentioned... my fave is the Japan-only Tetris Battle Gaiden (AKA Tetris Butou Gaiden) for the SNES. It's faaaantastic. Give it a shot sometime if you can. 8-)

[sabre2922]

Sprite based racers and pre-Dreamcast sport games

I can still go back to great "older" sport games on my DC like Virtua Tennis and NFL2K and still enjoy them they still look good and play great but when I look at the maddens and tennis or golf games on PS1 or Saturn O_O yuck.

I used to luv the Top Gear games on SNES but now I play them and well they kinda suck its like playing a racing game on one of those freakin toy games that has the road move and the car just goes side to side :roll:

[Archenemy]

Call me grampa... but I play any day of the week Shining Force 1 & 2 and still got passioned. Even the pseudo 3D effects on Shining Force 3 do not cover the real appeal of those RPG.

I preffer to run on my car (150 HP VW) rather than spending hours in front of my TV just to get nowhere. Just my opinion.

FPS... Well I am not good at, but play Gotcha on a regular Basis. Nothing compares to the adrenalyne and the PAIN MAMMA, THE PAIN!!!

Shoot'em ups... I love them. I really suck and someone should declare me inadequate to play them yet I still love them.

I guess everything depends on which games you liked then... I never liked Wolfenstein, ergo never liked Hexen, Doom, Queake, you name it. And I find Final Fantasy to be stupidly complex and rather loooooong.

I don't have too much spare time to play. I just want to sit and enjoy and always lays the desition: Newer or oldies? And most of the time the scale goes towards oldies. Yup. I am a grampa if you call me so. Sometimes it's the tactic (Dragon Force), sometimes the emotion (Radiant Silvergun) or simply the pleasure of getting back to that ye ol' time RPG and see how better you can get (eventually hehehe)

I guess I am aging alongside my cherished games. The New generation cannot comprehend simply because they weren't there. They just enjoy the legacy. I preffer to live the old days again...

But again, for newbies or neophilliacs GTA or Counterstrike is everything they live and therefore everything there is...

[lendelin]

For those who missed it, here is a link to Gamespy's list of "top 10 dead genres". Good stuff.

http://www.gamespy.com/top10/march03/genres/

Flack

Good Link!

The Qs are two different ones, however. Genres that age well (games that can be still played today w/o the feeling they are outdated) and genres that are on the brink of dying.

The puzzling Q is: why are some well aging genres like 2D shmups, platformers and puzzlers disappearing? RPGs are true timeless genres, still alive and twenty year old RPGs play very well.

First, genres evolve, reach over to other genres, some are absorbed, and the hybridization is as old as videogames. Beat-em-ups live on in fighting games, and shmups live on in FPSs. Second, the heyday of a genre is rooted in hardware abilities and leisure time activities. (more resolution, pixels to polygons, 2D to 3D, the heyday of the arcades)

The genre itself survives but changes a lot with hardware development if there is a clear set limit from the getgo. Racers, tennis games, all traditional sports. We can clearly identify them although they experience the same hybridization as other genres. (RPG elements in sports games and racers)

So, to say that some genres are dead and others survived is really difficult.

It is much easier to say which genres are still great to play today. As soon there is a good game idea, AND the software stays well within the limits of the hardware w/o pushing it to much, the genre is 'timeless' to play. I agree with shmups, platformers, RPGs, puzzlers as timeless.

The worst aged genres? Definetely racers and sports. Yep, sports games really profited from 3D; I never liked the old tennis games, but Virtua Tennis and Top Spin are fantastic. Same goes for racers. 3D and physics engines made an old genre 'perfect,' gameplay (in this case control mechanics) became as rich and involving as the best RPGs while keeping it simple. (the two GTs, the Project Gotham Racings, Test Drive Le Mans, and many others)

[Tron 2.0]

I agree with the "realistic sports games don't age well, arcade-ish fun ones do" statement. Baseball Stars, Ice Hockey, Super Tecmo Bowl, etc, are all still fun. Madden 199X, NHL 199X (I respectfully disagree with the people who mentioned NHL 1994 as still being fun :wink 2: ), and the other yearly sports games simply don't.

Agreed sport sim games haven't age well,while arcade ones have ;)