How did online auction sites affect collecting?

[lendelin]

Browsing ebay for some more Dreamcast games tonight, and getting some real nice games for $20 from bestbuy.com, I asked myself again how the Internet actually influenced collecting.

I discovered ebay more recently, around a year ago, and used it to get NES games I missed out back then. I was amazed and glad that I could get a Willow, and Rygar complete and mint for a couple of bucks, and regard ebay as a blessing....but then, I'm not a systematic collector and looked only for specific games.

My experience with ebay is that it tends to inflate prices for games in demand, but it tends to deflate prices for very nice games which are not sought after; if you're patient and set your limits, ebay can be fantastic; furthermore, it's very convenient, and the "hunting games" experience is also there like in the real wild.

I'm not a collector, though, and I'd like to know how online auction sites influnced the prices of older games. Did they make collecting easier or more difficult in the last 5 years? are they a blessing or a curse?

(PS: in case I warmed up a lukewarm topic or an already discussed old topic, sorry, and just ignore. :) )

[Ed Oscuro]

As William Gibson reminded me, the internet has the effect of "rationalizing" prices. While garage sales and so on give the best prices, the only surefire way to get what you want is now online, and since everybody can see what things are selling for, prices tend to climb. Very rarely does exposure to the internet bring a game's price down, though it might have that effect on a few individuals' asking price for whatever item. Your best bet is likely to find an internet forum where a couple people hang out and have some of their games for sale (say they want another system) but those are somewhat rare, and they're likely to have something nobody visiting that forum is looking for on sale, 'cuz they want more games for system X.

I would have absolutely nothing older than my Nintendo 64 without the Internet, though. With it, I've been able to find stuff that's considerably hard to find.

[JackDark]

I'd say the good side of buying games through an auction house is that you can find extremely rare and out of print titles very cheap (like Bermuda Syndrome, or Gunman Chronicles, etc.). Which is not only positive considering the financial savings, but also in the fact that you can find something instantly online that you'd never find scrounging bargain bins at Electronic Boutique.

The negative side however, is that it has created an elistist persona concerning some games (Rondo of Blood, Snatcher, Metal Gear 2 MSX Version, etc.) and has caused their relative values to reach ridiculous heights. Whereas at one time you might of been able to buy a used copy of Radiant Silvergun from an actual game shop for $30.00, these days due to eBay you couldn't buy the damn manual for that. The little collector gets crushed by uber rich dorks willing to pay fifty times what a game is actually worth. Developers and producers realize this as well... Policenauts for example might of been ported to the PS1, but Konami realizes doing so would reduce the original's networth in an auction. Which is a pride thing, and evil. So instead of getting Rondo Of Blood, we get Castlevania Chronicles ported. I'm surprised it wasn't Kid Dracula. Anyway...

I'd say overall online auction houses have vastly improved the ability to collect rare and out-of-print games at great prices. Unless of course, anybody else wants the same game you do. >}

[Ed Oscuro]

The little collector gets crushed by uber rich dorks willing to pay fifty times what a game is actually worth.

Actually, collectors are usually the uber-rich dorks...I understand how lots of internet folks would like to get ahold of these games nowadays, and it's also natural that this popularity drives the price up. And to think that the sealed Rondo of Blood foolery has subsided somewhat; I remember when they were selling on eBay for $350 and up a piece. Hah...learn how to wait. I got my sealed copy for much less than that, and I picked up a complete Mega Drive Zero Wing late last year for a joke.

Oh, and I'd like to say that you're rather cynical -- and wrong -- about the reasoning behind the lack of a release for Policenauts, and the deal with Akumajo Dracula x68000 getting a release in Chronicles. Iga has to deal with his bosses telling him what he can and can't work on; and AdraX68K's a great game. Rondo would've been great to remake, but would've been considerably more work than the relatively straightforward dual-1.44MB floppy x68000 title was.

[christianscott27]

well speaking as retrogamer, that is somebody collects the games collectively known as "that old shit?" ebay has really put its thumb on my meat scale. the demand for SNES and beyond games has always been there so all ebay did was sort the price levels out, but prior to ebay you really, seriously, could not give away an odyssey2. atari carts gathered dust in thrifts stores for months before being sold, simple story the picking was much easier. almost no one would overcharge for atari games, most sellers were just so tickled that anybody wanted the junk in the first place. back then my only competition was other gen x'ers on a nostalgia trip, now i face the army of the lving dead, the professional ebay goons. i see these orcas moving thru the thrifts throwing anything, clothes, books, games etc into their cart to be hawked on bay. good friends buy $30 game bundles in the hopes of making a $20 profit, its sad man. sure it helped me fill holes in my tabletop collection but i could have done the same trading all the games i would have found without ebayers picking the tree bare.

[vincewy]

All of the above said is true, unless if you're Dreamcast collector, eBay is awesome, I tried to get a few games like Super Runabout and Aerowings 2 locally, they were asking full retail price, at one point of time, a few vendors were trying to get rid of those on eBay for only a few bucks, bingo, a big saving for me.

Needless to say, demand and rarity all vary, right now DC games are at the point where vendors are trying to get rid of them (some new games have ried up), eventually certain titles will go up in value. This has happened to PC-Engine games in Japan at one point where stores had to throw games away (ecommerce wasn't there at the time), hurts just to think aboput it.

[YoshiM]

It's a double edged sword. It's great that I'm able to go to one place and probably find stuff I'd never ever find locally. It's great I could get a lot bundle for less than what game stores would sell them. It's great that I can sell something I wasn't able to locally.

However, the "get more on eBay" mentality is out as Internet access is more prevalent amongst the people. Game stores I've been to in Green Bay price by eBay. Pawn shops price by eBay. Hell even a Salvation Army priced their Atari carts at $3 a pop because "that's the going price online" while a SA store not 10 minutes away in another city sold them for $.25 a piece. Teens apply to work at Goodwill stores so they can get a crack at the games NOT to collect, but to sell on eBay (this was proven by a worker who went on break and scoured the tape/cd table for the Odyssey 2 games I picked up and in a round-about way confessed that she sold them on the 'bay). But I must confess I do the same sometimes if I know a particular title will fetch a good amoutn of be good trade bait. But then again, don't we all :P ?

While it's people's perogatives to sell the stuff on eBay or at garage sales at Bay prices, the sick thing is these people probably would have just given them up to SA or Goodwill without a second thought. There was a time not too long ago where I could pick up some sweet treasures on a regular basis. Now that these items suddenly have cash-money value people are scrambling to their attics or the stores to quick sell this stuff for cashcashCASH and maybe rib the buyer with a high shipping rate too.

So to me, yeah it's both.

[Zaxxon]

I used to think Ebay was stupid when it first started and I saw the prices on common stuff, 2600's etc. but there are so many people using it now that prices have leveled off and I think Ebay is great as a collector. You may very well pay a lot more for an item but I would rather pay more to get the item I want than spend weeks or months going to hundreds of crappy garage sales and flea markets, usually finding nothing good. You spend way more in time and gas the old way.

[sisko]

I always looked at the internet as a positive influence on collecting.

It is typically very hard to find any brick and mortar stores that will deal with anything other than the big 3.5 (sega, sony, nintendo, and now microsoft). So finding games for the 2600 much less an odyssey or jaguar is pretty much hopeless.

On an international note, never has it been easier to score import games. The internet made the video game market a world wide one, and thats the aspect that I am most pleased about.

One the downside, most games you purchase online will usually be sold for a premium. But then again, if you pay the money, it can't be too much, now can it? :)

[JackDark]

To believe that the difference between a bonified collector and an "uber rich dork" is a willingness to pay 10 times what a game is actually worth (rarity or not) is -wrong-.

It may be utopian of me to believe so; yet still I believe anyone should be allowed to buy Rondo Of Blood or Alien Soldier. Not just the rich who have incredible disposable income. You see, the "little poor guy" is a collector too. And because of "uber rich dorks" he is forced to pirate an ISO of Rondo instead of actually being able to buy it. Though he could of before eBay's inception. You see, as stated above, every pawn shop, used game store, and bargain bin now prices their merchandise off of eBay's auctions. Whether this is eBay's fault or not is subject to much debate. But if anyone believes that it's right, then I think they suffer from severe non compos mentis.

Chronicles may have been easier to port, but isn't Rondo Of Blood much more in demand? I refuse to believe that Chronicles is selling better than Rondo or Policenauts or even Snatcher would have as a port.

I for one am not only cynical of the matter,
I am supercilious.

Cest la vie, mon ami.

[zmeston]

You see, the "little poor guy" is a collector too. And because of "uber rich dorks" he is forced to pirate an ISO of Rondo instead of actually being able to buy it.

Damn those uber-rich dorks for paying what the market is willing to bear, and forcing you into breaking the law!

There's no denying that the gulf between rich and poor America has grown frighteningly, dangerously wide, but illustrating that gulf with eBay prices on low-supply/high-demand videogames is beyond absurd. I pity the working-class Americans who work 80-hour weeks and still struggle to pay the rent and feed their children -- not spoiled brats who can't get Rondo of Blood for thirty bucks.

Also, if you hadn't already noticed, videogames aren't exactly a low-budget hobby to begin with (although the CD and DVD mediums have certainly helped in that regard).

-- Z.

[zmeston]

Developers and producers realize this as well... Policenauts for example might of been ported to the PS1, but Konami realizes doing so would reduce the original's networth in an auction. Which is a pride thing, and evil. So instead of getting Rondo Of Blood, we get Castlevania Chronicles ported. I'm surprised it wasn't Kid Dracula. Anyway..

This is an incredibly ignorant and entirely inaccurate statement. What in God's name do you base your crackpot theory upon? Do you think developers and publishers make money from eBay auctions? Do you think Final Fantasy Tactics was reprinted as a Greatest Hits title because Square wanted to undercut the bastards auctioning it for $75 on eBay, or because -- duh -- the company belatedly recognized the demand, and decided to cash in on it?

PS1 Policenauts didn't receive a U.S> localization for a variety of political and financial reasons -- none of them being your fictional "pride."

-- Z.

[Goodwill Hunter]

If it's "cynical" to believe that the difference between a bonified collector and an "uber rich dork" is a willingness to pay 10 times what a game is actually worth (rarity or not), than yes I'm cynical.

You're not cynical, you're just wrong. If you're talking money, the actual worth of something isn't what it was before Ebay, or what it's listed at in a guide, or what you want it to be, or even what it sold for yesterday on Ebay. It's what someone is willing to pay the seller for it, at the time and place the seller is selling it.

It may not seem "fair" or "right", but if someone is willing to pony up 10 times the cash that the last one sold for...that one is now worth 10 times as much. But come tomorrow, a warehouse of those things may be unearthed, and it may drop to 1/100 of its current worth. And yet, at that 1/100 price, it's worth, in money and market terms, is just as valid as the previous 2 sales.

You may not like it, but ever since people have traded houses for tulips bulbs, 26 bucks of beads for an island, and hundreds for a crappy game based on a dog food commercial, its been true. Someone may have been willing to give the Indians more than $26 for Manhattan, but they weren't around where and when the Indians were selling...therefore its worth at that point and time was $20+ dollars of flashy neckwear.

All Ebay has done is given today's Indians a much wider audience when they choose to sell something.

"There's heapum' strong medicine in that thing you call Radiant Silvergun, paleface!"

Rich

[JackDark]

So I'm a cynical spoiled brat with crackpot theories?

Ha! I love it.

Animadvertation gets you everywhere.

I could go into a lengthy diatribe explaining my "pride" theory, using numerous web links and dropping esoteric names of people in the biz, quoting industry mongols and Japanese game designers... but all it will win me is ad hominem biased apologia. Therefore my "theories" will have to remain untenable, as I have not the patience for personal attacks.

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but pixels will never hurt me. :P

Regardless of whoever is right, we all have one thing in common here, we are vehemently in love with electronic gaming. And despite our differentiating opinions, we can coalesce because of it.

But you're still wrong. :D

P.S. Zmeston, I was talking about Konami, not Square. Square knowing what to re-release has absolutely nothing to do with Konami's disregard. Let us be not asinine.

[zmeston]

I could go into a lengthy diatribe explaining my "pride" theory, using numerous web links and dropping esoteric names of people in the biz, quoting industry mongols and Japanese game designers... but all it will win me is ad hominem biased apologia. Therefore my "theories" will have to remain untenable, as I have not the patience for personal attacks.

Your thesaurus-abusing posts remind me of a favorite passage from Stephen King's "On Writing":

"One of the really bad things you can do to your writing is to dress up the vocabulary, looking for long words because you're maybe a little bit ashamed of your short ones. This is like dressing up a household pet in evening clothes. The pet is embarrassed and the person who committed this act of pre-meditated cuteness should be even more embarrassed."

You're unwilling to back up your nonsensical theory because, of course, you can't. Whereas I worked for a company that attempted to pick up Policenauts for a U.S. release, and I directly observed the negotiations. I don't have theories -- I know what went down. Policenauts not coming to the U.S. had nothing to do with "pride," and everything to do with behind-the-scenes foolishness.

-- Z.

[lendelin]

Interesting posts. More Qs:

1. Before ebay and the Internet, was it easier to find more and/or cheaper games at thrifts and flea markets? Do even thrift stores have ebay in mind when they price games? Yoshi wrote that there are more and more non-collectors who buy games/accessories for the only reason to sell on ebay, and that's my impression too. They see a Mark of Kri at best buy for ten bucks, and shwups - it's gone becasue they buy all ten of them. Did the newly emerged professional ebay seller class make thrifts more and more obsolete?

2. Do you have the impression that more people collect due to the convenience of ebay?

3. There are collectors who are after sealed games - does ebay inflate prices for those games?

4. I think that ebay is basically ONE BIG garage sale when it comes to selling games/hardware. A VERY big garage sale. :) You have more sellers, but you also have more potential buyers. This alone would suggest that basically nothing changed compared to a couple of local garage sales. However, the newly introduced element is BIDDING. It's one big garage sale turned into an auction house. Did this drive the prices of sought after games into the nutty levels of a MMX3? Logically I'd say it must be disadvantegous for the buyers. The likelihood to find real bargains (games you get for a much cheaper price than it's commonly worth) should be reduced.

[JackDark]

Your thesaurus-abusing posts remind me of a favorite passage from Stephen King's "On Writing":

Does the idea of one having an nonpareil unassisted vocabulary seem so farfetched? Alas, let me keep my posts in layman terminology:

Firstly, I could care less for King's quote, as I have basically zero respect for him as an author. IMHFO the only good books he's ever written (mainly "The Talisman") where co-authored. Of course he denounces using advanced diction, as the man writes pop fiction. His accusation sounds more like an excuse to me; writing in commontone allowed him to produce works much faster than if he took the time to choose more archaic and descriptive wording. However, I am more a fan of literature myself, so I am used to "big words" and I prefer to incorporate them in my own writings... no matter how trivial. You should try reading some Aldous Huxley, Umberto Eco, or even Herman Hesse sometime my friend. Perhaps then you'll begin to dress up your little doggy too, and not accuse someone else of stealing their doggy's costumes.


You're unwilling to back up your nonsensical theory because, of course, you can't.

Ask yourself this:

If person A cannot afford to play game B due to person CDEFGHI...etc... keeping it's price out of person A's financial grasp, should person A never be allowed to play game B at all? Or is it better for them to pirate game B so that they can experience it, regardless of deserving it monetarily. As a game designer/producer would not you want as many people as possible to enjoy the fruits of your labor post-commerce?

If company Z owns the rights to game B and realizes that persons CDEFGHI...etc... have been paying an extraordinary amount of money for game B, would they not think it disrespectful of persons CDEFGHI...etc... to re-release game B mass marketed to allow person A to buy it? Would not persons CDEFGHI...etc... be not a tad spiteful? In effect the re-release would scorn those whom are the "true collectors".

I realize that that is only a matter of opinion, and your opinion differs.


Whereas I worked for a company that attempted to pick up Policenauts for a U.S. release.

What company did you work for? The only company I've ever heard gave it a shot was Working Designs.

[lendelin]

Has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, just with the two battling comrades: :)
Jackdark:
Firstly, I could care less for King's quote, as I have basically zero respect for him as an author. IMHFO the only good books he's ever written (mainly "The Talisman") where co-authored. Of course he denounces using advanced diction, as the man writes pop fiction. His accusation sounds more like an excuse to me; writing in commontone allowed him to produce works much faster than if he took the time to choose more archaic and descriptive wording. However, I am more a fan of literature myself, so I am used to "big words" and I prefer to incorporate them in my own writings... no matter how trivial. You should try reading some Aldous Huxley, Umberto Eco, or even Herman Hesse sometime my friend.

I HAVE to say this :) .... King is a great author with literature qualities, and not only The talisman was great with Peter Straub, but also Pet Semetary which contains a lot of intelligent thoughts about death, and Misery...and his early short stories are a fest and still my favorites. Character development, descriptions of persons and landscapes have so called "high literature" quality for sure....and he manages to do what also horror writers like Edgar A. Poe managed...to describe deatiled realistic situations to make us believe that the unlikely might be true; I know Huxley, Eco, and Hesse, and Stephen King is much better than Umberto for sure. :) About Hesse...I don't know. :) I come very close from the area where he was born, know his nephew, and had to read him (I have an MA in German Literature) He might be more "pop fiction" than Stephen King. :) I'd be very careful with those lables, it wouldn't be the first time that an author who was underestimated mkes a comeback and is celebrated as a genius...one hundred years later. :) and the one celebrated during his lifetime will be forgotten.

About the topic: There is no reason why publisihers/developers would take ebay into account...unless they make secretly profit on ebay and/or big profits with ebay sellers. Demand for a specific game on ebay as an indicator for prospective sales doesn't make sense either since the data would be biased...as a first impression maybe, but not more. I'm sure other considerations play a much bigger role, if not only the only role.

[zmeston]

You should try reading some Aldous Huxley, Umberto Eco, or even Herman Hesse sometime my friend. Perhaps then you'll begin to dress up your little doggy too, and not accuse someone else of stealing their doggy's costumes.

You've misinterpreted the quote. King doesn't denounce "advanced diction;" he denounces people like you, who use it unnecessarily.

I have read all of the authors you mention and hundreds more, from Toynbee, Braudel, and von Clausewitz to Koontz, Rowling, and Clancy. What's your point? My point was that your ridiculously dense prose makes your posts even more painful to slog through.


If person A cannot afford to play game B due to person CDEFGHI...etc... keeping it's price out of person A's financial grasp, should person A never be allowed to play game B at all? Or is it better for them to pirate game B so that they can experience it, regardless of deserving it monetarily. As a game designer/producer would not you want as many people as possible to enjoy the fruits of your labor post-commerce?

Person A should save his pennies and dollars until he can afford Game B, like that cool kid who mows lawns all summer and bids wisely at the Classic Gaming Expo auction, rather than spite those with more money. There are a lot of things I wish I had, and can't afford, but I don't assume that I have the right to steal them because I can't afford them and other people can.

During my stint as a game localizer, I expected to be paid for my labors, not to have my work stolen by narcissistic punks. Or haven't you heard 20 years' worth of pleas from the game designers and producers whose motivations you erroneously claim to understand?


If company Z owns the rights to game B and realizes that persons CDEFGHI...etc... have been paying an extraordinary amount of money for game B, would they not think it disrespectful of persons CDEFGHI...etc... to re-release game B mass marketed to allow person A to buy it? Would not persons CDEFGHI...etc... be not a tad spiteful? In effect the re-release would scorn those whom are the "true collectors".

You have a truly bizarre and entirely inaccurate view of how a videogame company operates. I assure you that Company Z doesn't give two shits about collectors, and doesn't worry about "scorning" them. Company Z cares first and foremost about making money, and produces as many copies of a game as it thinks it can sell through. Konami didn't "disrepect" collectors, nor give two shits about the people who paid $75 on eBay, when it cranked out a second run of AirForce Delta Storm for the Xbox; it cashed in on a higher-than-expected demand. Same with Suikoden III. Same with Final Fantasy Tactics. Same with many, many games that have been reprinted in the CD/DVD era.


I realize that that is only a matter of opinion, and your opinion differs.

But my opinions are based upon extensive knowledge of the facts and figures and harsh realities of the videogame business, whereas yours are pulled out of your ass.


What company did you work for? The only company I've ever heard gave it a shot was Working Designs.

WD was one of several companies that attempted to pick up Policenauts, and like the others, was rebuffed by Konami's US management, which didn't want to be second-guessed. Also, if the game ended up a hit, the US suits didn't want to look like assholes for passing on it in the first place. There's more to it than that, of course, but the other factors are boring and secondary.

After the experience with Policenauts, WD started negotiating directly with Konami Japan, which is how it eventually acquired Goemon -- which Konami's US branch wisely passed on, since they knew SCEA wouldn't approve it. (And indeed, almost 18 months after WD announced the title, SCEA still hasn't approved it.)

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

If I can ask on a side note, Zach -- what IS Sony's problem with Goemon, anyway?

It makes me wish for the 'open ended' days of Atari and the 3DO when companies could release what they wanted for very little hassle and up front cost.

Now a days, no one would DARE release a 'unlienced' game. Sad, really....

I guess that's one reason I'm more of a PC gamer -- no problem with that there. :D

[JackDark]

Zmeston you needn't be so caustic. If I am incorrect, than I am incorrect, but that doesn't give you the right to be so haughtily derogative. I respect your knowledge, but not your attitude. Howabout next time you want to explain your point of view be polemic without all the cantankerousness.

And you still haven't told me what company you used to work for, pray-tell?

[sisko]

The only company I have seen use eBay is Capcom, and that was to auction off Steel Batallion.

Even then, they rarely made over $200 (the list price) with a combo of the game, controller, and instruction manual.

[dhorgan]

The only company I have seen use eBay is Capcom, and that was to auction off Steel Batallion.

Even then, they rarely made over $200 (the list price) with a combo of the game, controller, and instruction manual.

Scatologic auctioned the first copy of Battlesphere for an ungodly sum.

[Kid Fenris]

I'll have to echo Sisko's comment that eBay, despite its many excesses, provides a great service by letting people find long out-of-print import games which would be difficult, if not impossible, to locate through American sellers or mail-order companies. Paying exorbitant prices for Radiant Silvergun is better than not being able to find it at all.

By the way, I've heard that another reason for Policenauts' lack of an American release lay with Kojima's refusal to allow the game to be translated if he couldn't take part in the process. Of course, he couldn't spare the time, with his current involvement in other projects. Any truth to this, Zach?



Your thesaurus-abusing posts remind me of a favorite passage from Stephen King's "On Writing":

Does the idea of one having an nonpareil unassisted vocabulary seem so farfetched?

Not really, but your errors are amusing.


To believe that the difference between a bonified collector and an "uber rich dork" . . .


. . . dropping esoteric names of people in the biz, quoting industry mongols and Japanese game designers...

"Bonified collectors"? "Industry Mongols"? You're conjuring up images of porn-star game hunters and a suit-wearing Genghis Khan waving his sword about as he pillages the offices of rival companies.

(You meant "bona fide collectors" and "industry moguls," I think. Sorry to get picky about this, but you're the one who brought up the issue of vocabulary.)

[KJN]

The only company I have seen use eBay is Capcom, and that was to auction off Steel Batallion.

Even then, they rarely made over $200 (the list price) with a combo of the game, controller, and instruction manual.
Scatologic auctioned the first copy of Battlesphere for an ungodly sum.
And Disney auctioned off a few copies of Kingdom hearts before the official release date.

Have to say ebay has made it a lot easier to get hold of stuff and often a lot cheaper. While not to bad when new you should see what some stores here (like Spelia) tries to charge for old games that was never released over here (and europe missed out on quit a few games). Would you pay 1200 sek ($147) for Legend of mana or 2800 sek ($344) for Lunar eternal blue complete?

[zmeston]

If I can ask on a side note, Zach -- what IS Sony's problem with Goemon, anyway?

It makes me wish for the 'open ended' days of Atari and the 3DO when companies could release what they wanted for very little hassle and up front cost.

Now a days, no one would DARE release a 'unlienced' game. Sad, really....

I guess that's one reason I'm more of a PC gamer -- no problem with that there. :D

Sony's primary problem with Goemon is a technical one: the game is a first-generation Japanese release, with an extremely dated 3D engine, and WD doesn't have the programming resources to tweak it. (WD had only one programmer with minimal experience on-staff, last I checked.)

WD also wants to ship Goemon at a premium price point, since that's the only way they can make any money on the licensing deal with KCEJ, whereas SCEA wants them to ship it at a budget MSRP. (This is why Working Designs is bundling Growlanser 2 and 3 into one package; it's the only way SCEA will allow them to ship the games.)

The REAL problem, however, is that Working Designs used to have friends (in particular, a friendly "third-party liaison") within Sony, and now it doesn't, and that makes getting through the approval process VERY hard. Atlus has plenty of friends within SCEA, as well as SCEJ, so it can ship Disgaea, a blatant PS1 title with minor PS2 touch-ups, at a full $50 price point.

The new incarnation of SNK is having similar approval problems with SCEA, incidentally.

Unlicensed (mainstream, not homebrew) console games will never happen again; console manufacturers handle the disc-printing process, retailers wouldn't stock unlicensed games, you'd be sued into oblivion, etc. When Sega successfully sued Sega over its naughty Genesis carts, that was the end of the unlicensed era.

I don't miss the unlicensed era, however, since unlicensed games, with the rarest of exceptions, are utter crap. Color Dreams, for example, was just another get-rich-quick-and-fuck-quality publisher of the type that destroyed the 2600 market. The fact that developers and publishers need to jump through hoops really does benefit the consumer.

-- Z.

[zmeston]

By the way, I've heard that another reason for Policenauts' lack of an American release lay with Kojima's refusal to allow the game to be translated if he couldn't take part in the process. Of course, he couldn't spare the time, with his current involvement in other projects. Any truth to this, Zach?

I'm assuming this is revisionist history, since Kojima didn't have the internal pull in '98 that he does now, and Kojima's opinions never entered into any negotiations I witnessed. Did Kojima specifically state this as fact?

-- Z.

[Kid Fenris]

By the way, I've heard that another reason for Policenauts' lack of an American release lay with Kojima's refusal to allow the game to be translated if he couldn't take part in the process. Of course, he couldn't spare the time, with his current involvement in other projects. Any truth to this, Zach?

I'm assuming this is revisionist history, since Kojima didn't have the internal pull in '98 that he does now, and Kojima's opinions never entered into any negotiations I witnessed. Did Kojima specifically state this as fact?

-- Z.

Nah, it's just a rumor I found in some fansite letters column years ago, and later on a message board, possibly the one at Working Designs' site.

SNK is having problems with Sony? Does this mean we'll get no Metal Slug 3, no KoF 2000/2001 package, and no budget-price conversions of older Neo-Geo games? I'd love PSX editions of Super Baseball 2020, Samurai Shodown 2, and Pulstar.

[Flack]

How has the internet affected video game collecting.

The Bad:
As others have mentioned, I have gone into sports cards shops and used book stores where the clerks have had their computer open to eBay. When you pick something up off the shelf, they immediately search eBay and find prices. Not good. It seems like it has not killed, but certainly narrowed down those "little treasures" I/we used to always find. It seems like I'm always being told by some 10 year old kid or some 40 year old clerk, "that's what it goes for on eBay." Hell, half the time, what they really mean is that's what it's LISTING for on eBay. Just because SMB/Duck Hunt is listed on eBay for $10 doesn't mean that's what it's worth, especially if it has 0 bids!

Besides video games, I'm also a pretty big Star Wars collector. Some lady told me at a garage sale that her 12" Han Solo with ONE ARM would "still probably get $10-$20 on eBay." It's just become such a catch phrase. People who know nothing about eBay say that stuff more than actual eBay sellers I think.

The Good:
For someone who lives in the middle of Oklahoma, it's pretty obvious. The world is at your fingertips. Literally. When I was a kid I had these Star Wars cards that Burger King handed out for free. I've been looking for replace them for probably close to 20 years. When eBay came along I searched for the cards and bought the entire set, mint, for a buck. And yeah, sometimes you may end up paying a couple of bucks more for something than what you thought it would go for, but when you compare "a couple of bucks more" to "never finding it", it's a small price to pay.

Pawn shops around here sell Sega Genesis games for between $3-$5 still. I had a friend recently give me his Genesis, but with only 2 games. Two hours later, I was bidding on over 30 on eBay, all for .99 each. The kicker? The seller was local, and I ended up meeting her in person, saving all shipping costs. She even threw in another 10 games that didn't get bids.

All from my couch while wearing boxers. That there intertet is somethin'.

Flack
On the same couch, but wearing pants. I promise.

[zmeston]

Nah, it's just a rumor I found in some fansite letters column years ago, and later on a message board, possibly the one at Working Designs' site.

Hmmph. Again, from my experience, it wasn't Kojima putting his foot down, it was Konami's US overlords being stupid. Working Designs also tried to acquire U.S. rights to Guitar Freaks around the same time, and Victor had some very clever ideas to sell it, but was again shot down.


SNK is having problems with Sony? Does this mean we'll get no Metal Slug 3, no KoF 2000/2001 package, and no budget-price conversions of older Neo-Geo games? I'd love PSX editions of Super Baseball 2020, Samurai Shodown 2, and Pulstar.

SNK NeoGeo USA is essentially a one-man band, a la Working Designs, so it's largely a matter of "the company" trying to convince SCEA why it should give a damn. From a harsh corporate perspective, which is all that exists at SCEA, why would the PS1 and PS2 platforms need the products of a company with mega-niche appeal and a recent history of colossal failure? I'm not sure if SNK is also running into the we-want-full-price/SCEA-wants-budget-price problem, but I'll look into it.

-- Z.

[DarkTetsuya]

Hmmph. Again, from my experience, it wasn't Kojima putting his foot down, it was Konami's US overlords being stupid. Working Designs also tried to acquire U.S. rights to Guitar Freaks around the same time, and Victor had some very clever ideas to sell it, but was again shot down.

O RLY? Well I'm sure they're kicking themselves now, as Harmonix/Red Octane has beaten them to the punch, forcing them to play catch up.

DT

[scott21]

personally i've used ebay almost exclusively. i can sit down, find what i want, and if i'm patient pay the price that i'm willing to pay for it. being from a small city i could never find the games and other items that i do on ebay.

of course on the downside its raised the value on things - good if you already own them and want to make a buck, but bad if you're looking to buy them :P

where my gf lives they have a huge place that buys old games,books, cds. all of their nes games are a solid 3-4 bucks each regardless of the title, but i guess one of the owners or managers is into snes and ebay, and prices those games accordingly as he buys them for pennies and sells for ebay prices. i sent her a list to go treasure hunting for and called me back and read off the prices of the games she found. all were dead-on with flick's snes guide :(

maybe when i go down there this weekend i can try and hunt for some nes games to flip on ebay :D

all in all it is what it is and you've got to roll with the punches like it or not.

[Emuaust]

Talk about Necro.................. :/

[AtariBuff]

The little collector gets crushed by uber rich dorks willing to pay fifty times what a game is actually worth.
how much is a used game actually worth then? who decides that?
that's not a question if poor or uber rich "dorks" (any reason for the name calling?), it's simply a matter how much one is willing to pay for a used game.

And I would not have had the chance of finishing my PAL PS1 collection without ebay because I would have had to travel to Germany, Spain, France, the U.K., Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Greece and visit EVERY fleamarket, videogame store, etc. to maybe find some country specific releases there by chance.

[Defconsoft]

I think Ataribuff got it in one with his comments, it is not a matter of class of collector when it comes to games, its down to how much someone is willing to pay. I use eBay a lot, being in the same boat as Ataribuff I have to buy games from all over Europe in order to find the stuff I really want, this would not be possible without eBay.

My issue with the online auction sites is how they influence the status of a game when it comes to its rarity as opposed to how good the game actually is.

For example, in the PSOne line of things Castlevania Symphony Of The Night ltd edition is priced at around the £50-£80 mark. Now for this game that is a price I am willing to pay, why because it is a good game. However on eBay it is marketed as being Rare. Its not rare, there are always upwards of 10 or so on eBay at a time.

Once again Star Ocean is another game that goes for a lot of money, and once again (although a little less common than Castlevania) there is still a few of them on eBay.

The reason these games and others are priced so high are because they are good games, not rare, maybe slightly uncommon. Try looking for a Burstrick Wakeboarding on eBay, it shows up once in a blue moon on its own, or Jinx, or Shellshock. These games are rare.

I even have a comment on my website where someone has congratulated me on my collection yet states that I seem to be missing a lot of RARE titles such as Suikoden, Azure Dreams and Star Ocean. To me none of the games are rare and if I wanted to I could just pick them up when I had the cash, but to me they are way down my list when I am still picking up limited editions, press kits, PSOne lightboxes, and other things that are truely RARE just not 'collectable' to most.

So in brief thats my problem with online auction sites, they benefit collectors greatly both uber rich and poor, you can find the bargains you find in flea markets if you look hard enough and are patient. But when it comes to high priced games lets call a spade a spade, they are high priced because they are mostly they are good games, lets give the designers, programmers and artists credit for this instead of falsely branding their hard work as rare.

(i realise that some games are highly priced due to their rarity and totally agree that they should be, this is when the system works).

Signed
A designer who wishes someone would put one of his games on eBay as Great Game and not Rare.

[Kid Ice]

Hmmph. Again, from my experience, it wasn't Kojima putting his foot down, it was Konami's US overlords being stupid. Working Designs also tried to acquire U.S. rights to Guitar Freaks around the same time, and Victor had some very clever ideas to sell it, but was again shot down.

O RLY? Well I'm sure they're kicking themselves now, as Harmonix/Red Octane has beaten them to the punch, forcing them to play catch up.

DT

They are probably kicking themselves for going out of business too.

But please continue...it's fun to watch users argue with three year old posts submitted by people who aren't around anymore.

[Synergy]

But please continue...it's fun to watch users argue with three year old posts submitted by people who aren't around anymore.

LOL Oh man, I was typing out a long-winded response about the earlier comments here until your comment hit me like a ton of bricks. These posts are three years old, and it just got resurrected by someone saying "O RLY?".

But since it's here, online collecting is still a double-edged sword as YoshiM put it, but I personally think the good outweighs the bad.

And no, it hasn't changed much in three years.

[PapaStu]

Hmmph. Again, from my experience, it wasn't Kojima putting his foot down, it was Konami's US overlords being stupid. Working Designs also tried to acquire U.S. rights to Guitar Freaks around the same time, and Victor had some very clever ideas to sell it, but was again shot down.

O RLY? Well I'm sure they're kicking themselves now, as Harmonix/Red Octane has beaten them to the punch, forcing them to play catch up.

DT

They are probably kicking themselves for going out of business too.

But please continue...it's fun to watch users argue with three year old posts submitted by people who aren't around anymore.

Classic. Thanks for posting this so I didn't have to come up with something witty and watch this thread to make sure that a 3 year old thread didn't get out of control when a poster started to argue with someone no longer on the boards.

[zektor]

Here is my take on it...many may disagree:

The Internet (and online auction sites such as Ebay) has for the most part ruined collecting for me. Yes, you can now find *anything* you want, for a price. But, I never wanted it this way....

I recall the days before the net. The days of trading games with friends, hitting up garage sales and odd stores. Finding games that were not on some "rare list", but were rare to our woods. It was pretty cool, and you really felt proud of what you had. To an extent there was no such thing as "commons". Ok, SMB/Duck Hunt can absolutely be called a common, or CV Donkey Kong. They came with the system, so they were obviously common. But, you'd find a copy of some game that you didn't see all that often and feel lucky that you got ahold of it. Now, you look at that same game on a great scale list and it's listed as a rarity 1. As you can tell, I hate lists too...

Call me old fashioned, but I really wish I could go back to the days where there were no lists, rarity guides, unlimited "get whatever you want for a price" online auctions. Bring me back to the simple days of collecting. Sadly, they are gone forever.