New Zelda bonus disc coming for GameCube!!!

[norkusa]

Looks like there will be a new Zelda bonus disc coming out for GameCube this holiday season. Will be included with new GC systems and possibly available thru other offers. It's supposed to include ports of The Legend Of Zelda, Zelda II: The Adventure Of Link, Orcarina Of Time, and Majora's Mask:

http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item&id=4684

If you don't have a GameCube yet, how can you NOT buy one after hearing this???

[hezeuschrist]

That's too good to be true... I must have it.

[Jorpho]

This is good news... The only problem is that it suggests Nintendo might be getting a little desperate, but then it won't be something generally available.

(Still, doesn't it sound kind of strange that a pack-in disk for a new system is a compilation of games for older systems?)
________
DRIPPING PUSSY JUICE (http://www.fucktube.com/video/39664/her-soft-wet-pussy-drips-pussy-juice-while-being-stimulated)

[Lady Jaye]

I too find this odd as I'd be less surprised to see Nintendo re-release or update Zelda and The Adventure of link for the GBA (after all, they're running out of 8- and 16-bit Super Mario games to re-release, once SMB3 is out).

[zmeston]

N/A

[sisko]

That would be pretty lame of them to not offer the disc available through any other means. Otherwise they would be screwing millions of Nintendo and Zelda devotees hardcore.

In reality, it sounds too good to be true. I mean, that many games, one disc, for "free?"

[zmeston]

N/A

[Anonymous]

IMO Nintendo should have done this years ago. Now that they are beginning to sink, Nintendo is turning to the same hardcore long term fans that they have ignored all these years screaming "Help Us!" I love Nintendo and would love to see them succeed, but they need to stop burning bridges, be it with developers or fans.

[Kevin Listwan]

Anotherfluke wrote
IMO Nintendo should have done this years ago. Now that they are beginning to sink, Nintendo is turning to the same hardcore long term fans that they have ignored all these years screaming "Help Us!" I love Nintendo and would love to see them succeed, but they need to stop burning bridges, be it with developers or fans.

Very well put anotherfluke

[Raedon]

It's to late.. they didn't learn to follow the market.. people wanted violent games, they said no.. People wanted CD FMV games.. they said no.. The competition had consoles that could play DVD movies, Nintendo said no.. They remake 15-10 year old games left and right for the GBA totally ignoring the fan base, now everyone is just fed up with Nintendo..

10 years from now we will have fond memories of Nintendo and Sega like we do with Atari and Coleco and the Nintendo name will live on after Microsoft buys the rights to their characters.

[sisko]

Unless these emulated Zeldas are enhanced a la All-Stars, how would it be "screwing" Zelda devotees who've surely already played through them?

-- Z.

I meant screwing from a collectors point of view :)

I don't want to have to spend $149 (Is that what the GCN sells for now?) to get the next Zelda release. Re-release or not....as a collector and a huge zelda fanatic I strive to have every zelda game. Sure I have played through them all, but that doesn't stop me from collecting! I'm sure you know how that goes :D

I'm aware that I can probably buy the game through other channels such as eBay, but I really shouldn't have to if Nintendo stands up to their fan base like they should have done years ago like everyone else has said.

I already regret my pruchase of my Gamecube....if they are going to stiff me on this one, It'll be a very very long time before I buy another Nintendo console.

[GaijinPunch]

I would love this, as Majora's Mask is the only non-Gameboy Zelda I've not played. :)

[zmeston]

N/A

[hezeuschrist]

Don't worry guys, these things will be on ebay in no time.

[SoulBlazer]

I have to disagree with raedon's entire post. Not everyone WANTS violent games or games that are all FMV. I enjoy them sometimes, but that's NOT my main staple. I doubt most of the people on this board, being 'classic' gamers, want it either. Nor do I need another DVD drive -- I got three allready!

You're ignoring everything Nintendo has going for them. They are holding on to the number 2 spot in Japan. They continue to bring in healthy profits. Pokemon continues to do very well for them. Their domince of the hand held field will hardly be dented by the N-Gage (and you can bet anything they are working on a new handheld system to match the PSP). They are learning from the mistakes of the past, and most importantly, KNOW they can't beat Sony at their own game -- so they are making DIFFERENT games. Is'nt that what they are SUSPOSED to do? They allready showed they can't match toe to toe aganist Sony, so apeal to gamers who like a little of everything, like me.

My GC gets just as much use as my PS2, and I have almost as many GC games. Frankly, I don't understand why the console has'nt done better considering the awsome games out there. Someone said the GC may follow the path of the Dreamcast -- I hope not, but it might happen.

I doubt Nintendo will drop out of the hardware market anytime soon, but their next system is going to be critical.

BTW, there's a good article about Nitendo in this months' GMR. Worth a read. 8-)

Oh, and I buy all the remakes. I know I'm not the only one who does that, either. And if this Zelda disc is confirmed, I'll buy it also. Just add it to my pile of wonderfull gaming goodness for my GC. :D

[zmeston]

N/A

[Mayhem]

If you didn't know zmeston, that sales quote had a MAJOR mistype. It was actually 800,000 units not 80,000 here...

[Zubiac666]

Ah. Gotcha. Sorry 'bout that -- I'm a jaded bastard of a game journalist first, and a collector second.

The odds are quite good that Nintendo's successors to the GameCube and GBA will be the last consoles it ever manufactures, so it WILL be a very very long time.

-- Z.

You have little knowledge about nintendo's financial status;haven't you?

First of all: IF nintendo ever stops producing hardware;they will stop producing software as well.
Nintendo is an old traditional JAPANESE company....and I guess u know what this means.Loyalty is a BIG word there.They are proud of ervery piece(hardware and software) they produce.

Second point: Did you know that nintendo is the only one of the console-developers who actually makes cash with hardware (gameboy) in the moment?
Did you know that nintendo's nest egg is bigger(!!!) than sony's....I guess not,hah?
It will took a long time to take out nintendo's breath,if it ever will happen.

[GrandAmChandler]

This also will be on my Christmas list. Mega Man Collection and this! wow, Im there.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'd pay money to get a port of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask just for sharper graphics via emulation, but not everybody likes those games as much as I do.

Dang, gotta get myself Wind Waker and the bonus disk.

[Ed Oscuro]

You have little knowledge about nintendo's financial status;haven't you?

First of all: IF nintendo ever stops producing hardware;they will stop producing software as well.
Nintendo is an old traditional JAPANESE company....and I guess u know what this means.Loyalty is a BIG word there.They are proud of ervery piece(hardware and software) they produce.

Second point: Did you know that nintendo is the only one of the console-developers who actually makes cash with hardware (gameboy) in the moment?
Did you know that nintendo's nest egg is bigger(!!!) than sony's....I guess not,hah?
It will took a long time to take out nintendo's breath,if it ever will happen.

Hmm...Zmeston only happens to have been inside the industry for...how long? Longer than you've been conscious, perhaps? He's absolutely correct on all counts, and your nice little figure about making money off the GBA is wholly unrelated to the question at hand. We are talking about GameCube sales, not GBA sales. Everybody, even my DOG knows that the GBA is what's keeping Nintendo afloat right now.

Secondly, you're silly to say that "if Nintendo ever stops producing hardware, they'll stop producing software as well." I would be surprised if they quit development for all their consoles and became a third party developer, but look at what Sega did. I think it would be more likely that they'd perhaps develop for some other system in addition to their handheld platforms, and your tidy, but ignorant, little statement overlooks far too much for me to really feel you put more thought into it than I did thinking about it.

Till next time...grow a beard, catch a few facts in it, get some more posts.

[Raedon]

I have to disagree with raedon's entire post. Not everyone WANTS violent games or games that are all FMV. I enjoy them sometimes, but that's NOT my main staple. I doubt most of the people on this board, being 'classic' gamers, want it either. Nor do I need another DVD drive -- I got three allready!


We are talking the gaming market.. not our little world of gaming. When they lost Final Fantasy to FMV and Sony, they lost.




You're ignoring everything Nintendo has going for them. They are holding on to the number 2 spot in Japan. They continue to bring in healthy profits. Pokemon continues to do very well for them. Their domince of the hand held field will hardly be dented by the N-Gage (and you can bet anything they are working on a new handheld system to match the PSP). They are learning from the mistakes of the past, and most importantly, KNOW they can't beat Sony at their own game -- so they are making DIFFERENT games. Is'nt that what they are SUSPOSED to do? They allready showed they can't match toe to toe aganist Sony, so apeal to gamers who like a little of everything, like me.

When the 3rd parties are running away the peverbial Rats have left the sinking ship.
Nintendo has bastardized two of their classic characters with the last Mario and Zelda games didn't leave a "wow!" taste in hardcore gamers mouths.




My GC gets just as much use as my PS2, and I have almost as many GC games. Frankly, I don't understand why the console has'nt done better considering the awsome games out there. Someone said the GC may follow the path of the Dreamcast -- I hope not, but it might happen.

I can buy that.. Metroid Prime kicked ass as did a few other GC titles. It hasn't done better because Anime based RPG's run the console market. When Nintendo lost Square and Enix they just lost..



I doubt Nintendo will drop out of the hardware market anytime soon, but their next system is going to be critical.



I will state my gaming reputation on this one statement:

we are witnessing the final days of Nintendo hardware.






Oh, and I buy all the remakes. I know I'm not the only one who does that, either. And if this Zelda disc is confirmed, I'll buy it also. Just add it to my pile of wonderfull gaming goodness for my GC. :D

So will I ^.^;

[Mayhem]

Secondly, you're silly to say that "if Nintendo ever stops producing hardware, they'll stop producing software as well."

A statement from someone very high up (Mr Iwata himself? I can't recall) in Nintendo in an interview recently. They stated the day they stop making hardware is the day they stop making software. Take it or leave it... frankly gaming would be in poverty without Nintendo...

[Ed Oscuro]

That's great. Words are cheap, but thinking through something isn't. I don't mind that Nintendo can stick to their guns and their personal sense of morals, but I don't completely believe that.

Besides, as I said, that sort of statement doesn't cover the eventuality that they might develop games for another platform as well, or allow their characters to appear on one. Not likely anymore, but it's not without precedent. So take what I said or leave it, but I'm sticking to it.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, leave me a positive thinker, but I don't see Nintendo as being dead yet. The company has been around making hardware even longer then Sega did, and we'll see what happens. If their next system does'nt do well, okay then, sure. But for right now, I will continue to buy new games for my GC and support the system long after it'd dead.

ANY gaming company is going to stay in second place behind Sony right now, anyway -- unless Sony does something stupid in the next few years, and I don't see them doing that. But I don't see Nintendo (or Microsoft) as doing it either.

And I happen to LOVE the new Mario and Zelda games, thank you very much......

And the reason Sony probaly makes money on PS2's? Those things are the cheapest POS I have ever played on. :D Nintendo systems you can drag through hell and back and they STILL work! (maybe they are built TOO well?)

Nintendo's idea of making games 'apeal to the masses' and taking less time to play is a great one, IMHO -- it will allow Nintendo to expand it's user base (the gaming market) and earn money on games that Sony does'nt have. I mean, right now, if I want to play a RPG, a really violent game, or a simulation/strategy game, I fire up my PS2. If I want to play a franchise game, a adventure game, or a space shooter, I fire up my GC.

The company says they have learned from the past and will be kinder to third party companies (they allready have lowered the royalities the companies pay), support their fan base more, and push their new console out sooner then anyone else. Only time will tell if they are right. Personaly, I'd hate to see them do what Sega has done. But they ALWAYS will make games.

[NvrMore]

What the hell, I might as well chime in here..

zmeston, sorry, but if you cry "FANBOY" one more time as a reason to put down those who support X company then I'm either going to die laughing at the irony or explode because of the hypocrisy. No offence, but you're every bit as much a Sony fanboy as anyone else could possibly be/is a fanboy of any other system or company. You constantly enter into topics in which another sys/company/product is gaining or may recieve praise and use it as a springboard to lauch into an array of nit-picking/critisism of said company while pimping Sony's.. anything.

Damn, I don't have a problem with you being wrapped up in Sony and their products and it's even nice that you're so excited about their portable proposals but quit the damn zealous fanboy routine. Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh or rude but so far everytime I read one of your posts on the subject of X company in respect to Sony, and their implied proverbial throne complete with fanboy lip to arse cusioning technology, the only thing I see missing is the inevitable "50ny r0xx0rz N iz 2 pHa7 4 j00 fanb0yz".

With regard to current spate of N bashing though... 800,000, granted it's not great but lets no go dropping 0's for the sake of making something sound better (or worse depending on the angle it's taken from).

Nintendo stopped production.. yup, it's generally a good idea to do so when you have enough stock to cover your expected demand... *waits for N bashers to jump at this point*... *ding* so bearing in mind that nobody knows how hot the production had been running simply stands as a point that the company made a basic and, dare I say, smart business move in decreasing expenditure which wasn't neccessary given they felt they had enough stock to cover forseeable demand which could mean they had either 10 units spare or 100,000,000, in either case short of having a condemning inventory listing it's a groundless point to attack as chances are any N bashers would be eagerly jumping on N for the exact opposite reasons (as they were doing) were N still producing with existing stock.

Third-party publishers dropping out.. yup its not a great thing but if we take a look at prominent example A: Acclaim, then we see a company looking for a scapegoat for their sharehlders given their iminent implosion and what better scapegoat then the sys on which their titles have sold the least copies, all the while hiding the fact that their titles didn't sell well because they were complete and utter goat SHITE, the soft greeny-yellow stinky kind which is indicative of the rotting internals of that which produced it.. I know, I played them, I owned some of them and I gave them away.. and I'm a damn collector I don't give games away, I kept home alone for the SNES for fucks sake.
Eidos.. it's a shame, they were ok, I kind of liked them, but then again I didn't make a big deal because publishers jump ship on systems all the time, they always have, it's a part of the business it's just that certain people use such events as an excuse to get pissy about a sys as though it was an earth shatteringly, butt clenchingly, first time EVAR occurrence.

As for bastardizing classic characters and thus alienating the "hardcore" gamers.. rriiiigggghhhht (sorry, I know that sounded pissy but the point's it's addressing just so.. damn.. dumb). Strange, I think I may be, possibly, perhaps deemable as a "hardcore" gamer (although I don't have my membership card or pen yet) yet I was really quite pleased with N's character transitions thus far, even so much as impressed. And I can say I know a respectable number of said proverbial hardcore gamers and N fans who were equally pleased, even the old bastards who play all the way back to their game and watch sets. In short, general consensus was "mmmm wow! goodness".. but of course my and their certificates of "hardcore-ness" haven't made it through in the mail yet.

Can't knock Nintendo for not providing entertainment, for the gamers there's gaming goodness and for the bashers and bitchers there's anything good or bad.. for fucks sake they even complain when they get given good stuff for free.

On topic though.. new Zelda disk, sweet, I've enjoyed the free OoT/MQ disk and I will have the new one too. It's a great idea and as a fan of the series all I can say as far as freebies go they know what I want and go that little bit further. Spot on.

[sisko]

And the reason Sony probaly makes money on PS2's? Those things are the cheapest POS I have ever played on. :D Nintendo systems you can drag through hell and back and they STILL work! (maybe they are built TOO well?)
You do have a point here. If Sony for once built a quality hardware product that didn't crap out after the first two or three years on the vast majority of users, they wouldn't have had to constantly replace theirs and Sony wouldn't be anywhere close to the 60 million mark.

[hydr0x]

I will state my gaming reputation on this one statement:

we are witnessing the final days of Nintendo hardware.


your reputation is already gone ;) seriously, you're to narrow-minded, just because GC isn't doing well in the US doesn't mean nintendo will go bankrupt

[NE146]

I really don't give a hoot one way or the other as long if a company is dead or alive, as long as I get the console and as many of it's good games as I can get :D

[ChuckthePlant]

I think everyone makes excellent points but ignores the long-term view. We have seen the demise and rise of various consoles, companies and games from the very beginning of this industry. The one constant is being unable to guess the next major market direction. A commanding market share for a company does not lead to dominance forever. Nintendo has been in the market for a long time and takes a longer view of things than do fanboys and an servile advertising driven game press. It is beyond a doubt that they are experiencing major problems, but in a mature industry this is not uncommon. If we look to such companies as Chrysler, Apple, or IBM we can see similar rise and falls. Nintendo’s financials and their cash flow planning go a long way to protect them from what could be a temporary market position. So while this discussion is entertaining in an academic and reactive way it should be taken with a grain of salt.

[orrimarrko]

Didn't this turn into a tasty morsel of a topic? :D

Well, into the fray I go...

I'm not a fanboy of any particular system, as quite frankly, they ALL have their cons.

I unintentionally spread my time over the three current systems (GC, XBOX and PS2) with not much loyalty to any of the three. Obviously, exclusives are purchased for the system that releases them, and for titles that appear on all three - price dictates first, then graphics and control second. That typically puts the PS2 in last place.

Now that I have established my "non-biased" persona, I have to say that I agree, in part, with both of the conflicting views on the Big N's alleged future demise.

Zach knows his shit, and although some of his posts may have a little opinion clouding the issue, he's pretty much correct.

On the other hand, those who have claimed that Nintendo isn't going anywhere soon are also most definitely correct.

So where does that leave us. Some interesting "facts" (coupled with some conjecture):

Nintendo dropped the ball with the N64 - that's a fact. Doesn't matter if you like the system or not (I happen to). The development cost them long term third party support, money and market share. ALL FACTS.

Unfortunately, this carried over to the GameCube. In an attempt to be "different" once again, they chose a poor color for the system, a poor design for the media (3.5"), and NO DVD support. With less third party support for the system (which was carried over from the N64), Nintendo had to rely mostly upon crossover titles and not enough first party software at the release.

SONY garnered way too much of the market share with the PS/One, and did actually make two genius design moves when they released the PS2 - backwards compatability and DVD playback with no additional cost.

This almost solidified the PS2 worldwide. $299 for a system that could play your DVDs, PS games and these new PS2 games?? A steal.

And that's exactly what they did - they stole the market right out from Nintendo, in what practically amounted to a weekend.

Nintendo, trying to save face (at least internally) claimed that they weren't concerned, and that they're market share was this and that...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. They were shitting their pants. Any attempt to say otherwise is just bullshit.

Now, I will give Nintendo some credit here. They have established themselves with the children's market. No violence (for the most part) has helped them to maintain their hold on this demographic. But, as we all know, the kids market is less than half of the entire console market. They maintain their hold on the handheld market, and probably will for a long time.

The PSP will be great I'm sure, but Gameboy branding is going to be very hard to top. The only good thing for Big N here is, most people will probably own both. I honestly can't see gamers choosing the PSP over the GBA sp permanently. The cost is so low, gamers can afford both.

Back to consoles.

I know that SONY and Nintendo are looking at the next gen of consoles (as they should be), and that Nintendo will have ONE more chance to do things right. They have to offer something better than what SONY does in terms of hardware. They HAVE to make it affordable, and/or compatable with the GC in some way. They MOST definitely have to make it play DVD. AND most importantly, they absolutely have to have a decent sized library of truly innovative and kick ass games at launch.

If they can do all of that, I think they will be around for a while. From everything that I have read, Big N is confident that they will. Let's not forget people - they aren't stupid. They spend lots of money every year on marketing and information gathering. They know the mistakes they've made, and how it's cost them. The question is, what will they do about it.

Personally, I think that they will incorporate all of their lessons learned into the next hardware. I don't know if it will be enough, but I honestly hope so. If not, the fifth Nintendo console will be the last one you see.

Punt...

[SoulBlazer]

orrimarrko made a GREAT post -- once again someone said very nicely what I was trying to say. :P

Thanks for saying some good thoughts. :D

There's only one thing I disagree with you on -- I don't think the media choice for the GC is bad. What's wrong with it? The storage space is big enough for most games and if not, you just include a second disc, like the PSX used to do. Nintendo said one reason they picked that format was to prevent piracy -- and so far, it's worked (it's amazing how much the PS2 and XBox are pirated! x_x )

Also, Nintendo has a long and deep relationship with Mitsuda (the company that made the format) and their parent company, so I'm sure that's another reason for it.

[Raedon]

I will state my gaming reputation on this one statement:

we are witnessing the final days of Nintendo hardware.


your reputation is already gone ;) seriously, you're to narrow-minded, just because GC isn't doing well in the US doesn't mean nintendo will go bankrupt

Lol, give it 10 years and one more console and portable..

And Japanese companies don't go "bankrupt" that is an american thing.

As for the narrow minded statement.. my eyes are wide open, I think I know more then a little bit about the console industry. I also read up on industry info from Japan, so I'm not just firmly grounded in the US of A on my statement..

[SoulBlazer]

Japanese companies don't go bankrupt? Then what happened to SNK? :D

[Duncan]

Here's a new thought or two to chew on.

Is it possible we're all getting a little too worked up over hardware? These are game machines, and we shouldn't forget that. I think that, if recent rumors and releases are any indication, Sony may done so already.

Take the upcoming PSX, a seriously upgraded and ultra-priced PS2 variant. This thing is expected to include a progressive-scan DVD player and burner as standard equipment. I've heard it will cost somewhere on the order of $400-$500 when it arrives late this year. Granted, it might be nice to have everything in one place for convenience...

...but then did the LaserActive or CD-I systems ever take off? No, and things like DVD/VCR combos are only going to be popular in the short term as well. People tend to buy one thing at a time for the most part; otherwise, they feel they've been ripped off when half of their entertainment options become obsolete in a couple of years.

With that in mind, let's go back to the GameCube. It is a game system to the fore, which works very much in its favor for people who -- here's a thought -- want to play games. No, it doesn't play DVDs or CDs -- but nearly everyone now has a separate DVD or CD player anyway. So I think Sony's current ownership of the DVD player market is about to become a dead issue, assuming another "must-have" technology doesn't arrive soon.

And though most people have laughed off Nintendo's strong focus on GBA connectivity as an attempt to hide their poor online presence, I think this will be their saving grace for the next couple of years. Remember that a lot of people nowadays know Nintendo mainly through the Game Boy -- and some of them are surprised to find that now (thanks to the godsend Game Boy Player), they don't have to squint at that tiny screen if they want to play games at home.

Consider also these facts: a lot of places have been throwing in the GB Player for free with GameCube purchases, and remember that brand-new GBA games are nearly half the price of any other console's. They're also easier to play and use for a lot of people, being based on a simple cartridge and having only a few buttons to work with. The economics and mechanics simply make good sense. I get the feeling that Sony, in its usual way, will do everything it can to "tech up" the PSP and make it more capable than the GBA -- but if it uses any sort of a disc or has too many easily breakable gewgaws, I can guarantee you that parents (who ultimately drive half of the GBA's sales right now) will not be interested. The GBA's simplicity is part of its appeal, and Sony would be wise not to screw with that formula.

Now, back to online games for a second. Though this has been repeatedly touted -- mostly by game magazines -- as the "next wave" of console gaming, I honestly just don't see it happening. Having worked in the electronics department of a major retail chain for the last five years (and having now seen enough console launches to know what works and what doesn't), I'm pretty sure that online games will continue to be important only in the PC world. And though some people have the time and money to play both PC and console games, most game buyers have already chosen which side they'll stick with for the long term. The console people, for the most part, don't seem to care all that much about going head-to-head with online opponents if it means they'll have to add more hassles to their entertainment system hookup.

Want proof that online console games are going nowhere? Sony's new PS2 Online package (including the PS2 console and Network Adapter for $199) has not moved more than two (that's the number 2) units off my store's shelves since it arrived over a month ago. And our Xbox Live kits have just gone clearance...

Finally, I'll give you this to consider. After learning from Atari's successes and (most of their) failures, Nintendo basically built the modern video game industry singlehandedly. Sega then took over as the market matured, and Sony effectively inherited it when Sega could no longer pay to play. But despite the rises and falls of many a competitor, Nintendo has continued to be a dominant force in the market based mainly on good name recognition and a proven formula. Conversely, one gets the feeling that if it all went terribly pear-shaped for Sony, they'd drop this whole video game "thing" like a rock and cut their losses. They're a gigantic megalith of a company, and that's just what megaliths do. For classic proof of this phenomenon, you might recall that Philips once sold video games a while back...

...and as for Microsoft, I simply point you to the stacks and stacks of unsold Xbox games building up in my store's back room as I write this. End of story.

Duncan :D

[zmeston]

N/A

[Kevin Listwan]

I have said this in a few other threads so if you have heard please ignore, a few months (sorry I do not remember the issue number) back Business 2.0 magazine ran a very good article on Nintendo's current state and covered many of the topics discussed hear. The mag had a picture of a shark on it. Basically the articles conclusion was that Nintendo IS in trouble but is NOT doomed, the next few years and next console release is crucial depending, which way Nintendo wants to go in the market (i.e. make consoles or become the next Sega).

Also on Nintendo's lack of a DVD play ability, this was done because the Gamecube was designed both physically and technologically to be a video game machine not an "entertainment system" like the PS2 and X Box.

[Digital Database]

That's very cool news, I can't wait for it

[zmeston]

N/A

[Raedon]

Phht.. GC, ps2, Xbox... We all know the Phantom is going to change the lanscape of console gaming...



*pause for effect*


Ahahahahahahahhahahahha LOL

[zmeston]

N/A

[Anonymous]

Not to take sides or anything, but internally everyone at Nintendo regards the N64 as a big mistake for not having gone with CDs. Everyone also regards it as a big mistake that Nintendo did not go with DVD capability with the Gamecube. And there are some that believe that Nintendo is holding back with the Gamecube while they prepare for the Next Generation system. All Hearsay, of course...

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, please point out the many ways in which the GameCube is less "cheap" in its construction than the PS2.

They certainly didn't pay the designers any money, since even the "stylish" black version has that wierd beige rectangle for your controllers. I suppose the cube-watermelon shape makes them cheaper to ship, but that doesn't help me out any. Also have to love how the Japanese get different colors of GameBoy Player in a cool box reflecting the look of the whole unit. Even Europe got a similar package, in fact. Not us!

As Orrimarko hinted at, it's also a great idea to take too many cues from a failed system, like using the same media as the Dreamcast. This doesn't save on packaging or much of anything. The GameBoy Advance connectivity seems to me about as much a selling point as the Dreamcast VMU...especially when I realize I've already been ripped off with the GameBoy Player NOT offering connectivity built in.

As for all this utter CRAP about "Japanese companies have too much pride" or "Japanese companies don't go bankrupt," it doesn't take a genius to sense that there's some stereotyping going on. I recently read that Nintendo had bought back a certain number of shares of stock in order to keep the company's stock price up...right there's a reason to suspect that Nintendo will try quite hard to survive. Japanese companies DO go bankrupt, as is proven without a doubt by the fall of SNK in late 2001.

[YoshiM]

I personally go with the 4 console life rule: if a company puts out 4 consoles, it dies (at least with making consoles at least). Atari: Put out the VCS, 5200, 7800 and Jaguar. DEAD! Sega: put out the SMS, the Genesis, the Saturn, and the Dreamcast. DEAD! The Cube is number four...what will happen next? dun dun DUUUUNNNNN!

(j/k)

One of the issues with the Cube is that it is really hobbled when it comes to exclusive "killer apps". Opening day didn't have many titles that said "buy this system NOW!" except perhaps Star Wars and the hope of future Nintendo classics like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid. It also concerns me when they have other parties making their flagship titles (like Sega working on F-Zero GX and Retro Studios making Metroid Prime). Shouldn't Nintendo's in house best be working on this stuff? On the outside, even though the games are good I would think that makes Nintendo look a bit weak.

Sony has a lot of weight behind them and a gi-mongous following. Stats or no, the PS2 was gobbled up like it was a Thanksgiving turkey. Even in the 50K people metropolis known as Sheboygan where I work there were people LINED UP OUTSIDE OF STORES. That has NEVER happened before for a game system here. NEVER. People know Sony. They want Sony. To think that something like the PSP is NOT going to attract attention is just a foolish thought. Without a doubt, unless Sony flushes its brain, the PSP is going to kick Nintendo hard in the sack. And everyone here knows I ain't a Sony fanboy by any stretch of the imagination so it's not like I'm playing them up.

As for Nintendo's second place in Japan: that's by default due to the fact they are a Japanese company. Xbox could have the best games, bar none, the kind that cause angels to sing from heavens and fish to dance on the surface of the sea but because the hardware is produced by an American company the Japanese aren't interested. Same for the software. Sad but true.

Am I going to say that it's death to the Gamecube? No, but it ain't looking too hot. Dropping a majority of the big guns in a short span of time was a despiration move if I ever saw one and now the retro collection rumor of getting some of the biggest titles of one of THE most recognized game series in the world one can't just say that the big N is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Couple that with the heavy push for GBA connectivity games they seem to be scrambling to come up with something to get positive recognition.

And don't get me started with GBA connectivity or you'll get an eye-full of negative verbage on the topic.

[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[Jorpho]

Crikey. I hope I didn't start all this. I shall never again speculate about the wisdom of a company's particular moves, because I can hardly guess at how they work.

Nonetheless...


Stats or no, the PS2 was gobbled up like it was a Thanksgiving turkey. Even in the 50K people metropolis known as Sheboygan where I work there were people LINED UP OUTSIDE OF STORES. That has NEVER happened before for a game system here.

It wasn't too long ago that the N64 (with Ocarina of Time) was selling out at stores during the holiday season, and some merchants had to resort to putting up signs in their windows stating as much.
________
I inhale vaporizer reviews (http://vaporizerinfo.com/)

[ChuckthePlant]

[quote=ChuckthePlant]

Don't go getting all voice-of-reasony on us, man. That's no fun!

Okay, let's take a long-term view, as you suggest Nintendo does.

The home videogame industry is about 25 years old. Nintendo has been around for roughly 20 of those, and has released four major game consoles: NES, Super NES, N64, and GameCube. The SNES sold fewer units than the NES; the N64 sold fewer units than the SNES; and the GameCube, if future sales stay consistent with current sales, will sell fewer units than the N64. Nintendo hasn't had a "rise and fall"; it's been ALL fall. It's not "a temporary position"; it's 15 straight years of market-share loss.

You say it's impossible to guess Nintendo's next direction; I say, looking at past and present trends, it's very possible.

-- Z.

Oops, no desire to spoil the fun. Your observations about declining market share over the 10-15 years are correct. I only pause to caution that with a developed and mature market there are many scenarios’ that could change the present landscape. The main problem with Atari, Sega, SNK et al were a result of poor financial planning and not enough preparation for a cyclical industry and the reality of their position with in it. My main point is with very favorable cash flow and sound financials Nintendo is probable better suited to weathering many off years than it’s competitors. I would direct you look at non gaming revenue for Sony for the current year. I would not direct you to Microsoft as they could probably give away the console and games plus an extra five hundred for walking around money, for the next ten years and see little impact on there bottom line. They are truly a special case. Nintendo was founded in 1889 and may have longer view of things than even 25 years. This may be both it bain as well as it boon. For us to try and prognosticate base on current technological and market positions is fraught with the error of unanticipated events but does yield an interesting discussion. Besides I do like Zelda, and look forward to the re-release. Thought I throw a little on topic information into the post (lol)

[zmeston]

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[SoulBlazer]

Is'nt one of the reasons that Nintendo has sold less of each of their consoles because they have more and more compeition in the videogame market? :)

Still, I see Nintendo as taking a long term aproach as well, and being in a much better position to surive then Sega was a hardware maker. Granted, a lot of the money is coming from the GBA and Pokemon, but they are still doing quite well. Sony may make a lot of money from it's gaming division, but they are a HUGE comp[any, making money from all of their products.

If there is a decline in the gaming industry, as some have said that might happen, Nintendo could survive it, where I think Sony would cut it's losses and pull out of the gaming market.

Zach, I'm curious -- do you see Nintendo as doing anything RIGHT? You're such a negative person on one of the best video gaming companies. :D

[YoshiM]

Crikey. I hope I didn't start all this. I shall never again speculate about the wisdom of a company's particular moves, because I can hardly guess at how they work.

Nonetheless...


Stats or no, the PS2 was gobbled up like it was a Thanksgiving turkey. Even in the 50K people metropolis known as Sheboygan where I work there were people LINED UP OUTSIDE OF STORES. That has NEVER happened before for a game system here.

It wasn't too long ago that the N64 (with Ocarina of Time) was selling out at stores during the holiday season, and some merchants had to resort to putting up signs in their windows stating as much.

True, but were N64/Ocarina of Time bundles going for $400 to $1,000 on eBay at time of release? Didn't think so. :D I was stating the fact that seeing people in the town I work in stand in line for something that wasn't a)free b)cheap or c)didn't involve beer or the Green Bay Packers is an amazing event.

Even with the bundle, N64 with Zelda still didn't unseat Sony then and the bundles hasn't done anything now.

As for Soulblazer's comment on the market competition: yes there was more competition but I don't think it really meant a whole lot in the long run. In the early to mid 90's before the N64 we had the 3DO, CDi, Jaguar, Amiga 32 and TurboDuo along with the SNES and Genesis/32X/Sega CD platforms. Who pulled through to the next era of Saturn vs. PS1 vs. N64? Nintendo and Sega. So while there was a heated competition, I don't think it was nearly as cut throat as one may think.

[sisko]

And the reason Sony probaly makes money on PS2's? Those things are the cheapest POS I have ever played on. :D Nintendo systems you can drag through hell and back and they STILL work! (maybe they are built TOO well?)
You do have a point here. If Sony for once built a quality hardware product that didn't crap out after the first two or three years on the vast majority of users, they wouldn't have had to constantly replace theirs and Sony wouldn't be anywhere close to the 60 million mark.

Oh, God, not THIS tired urban myth again. Can ANYONE provide anything other than anecdotal evidence to prove this ludicrous statement? Does ANYONE really think that, if PS1s and PS2s were breaking down at such a rate that "the vast majority of users" had to "constantly replace theirs," consumer-protection agencies wouldn't take swift notice?

Also, please point out the many ways in which the GameCube is less "cheap" in its construction than the PS2.

-- Z.

Consumer agencies can't do crap. Sony has the legal federal warranty on their unit and thus they are protected. Also most units tend to last for a full 1 - 2 years, well past the 90 day warranty.

I state this because
A) I as well as most of my friends have had to replace theirs by now,
B) Rants left, right, backwards, and forwards I see on newsgroups, websites, message boards, and the like.
C) Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of customers who bought their PS2 at the electronics store I worked at told me they were replacing theirs, and finally
D)Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of customers who bought their PS2 at the video game store I also worked at told me they were replacing theirs.

If you say that none of that is true, you're just lying to yourself.

[ozyr]

I think that Queen of the Felines or Sniderman should move this to the BattleZone. This was supposed to be a posting on the New Zelda bonus disc coming for GameCube!!! Not a bloody, Nintendo is dead, PS2 is great, yadda, yadda, crap. Keep to the point!!!

:angry:

[lendelin]

I think that Queen of the Felines or Sniderman should move this to the BattleZone. This was supposed to be a posting on the New Zelda bonus disc coming for GameCube!!! Not a bloody, Nintendo is dead, PS2 is great, yadda, yadda, crap. Keep to the point!!!

:angry:

Oh yeah, to the point...the Zelda bonus disc is great!! GREAT, I'm tellin' ya!

Ozyr, this is a heated debate and has only a slight link to the original topic, but nevertheless it's a good one with intelligent arguments. A heated battle is a good battle as long as it doesn't get insulting. I genuinly enjoy discourse, in particular if you have to change your own opinion confronted with better arguments. A good thought is one of the few enjoyable things in life, like good food and good sex.

I think a lot of you see the current situation a bit too dramatic. It's actually a common restructering of the market which was foreseeable. The more the videogame market became successful and expanded from a kids market to an equally important adult market, the more it became attarctive for big powerhouses. The traditional toy manufacturers (Nintendo, Sega) are either in trouble or dead as hardware manufacturers. One electronic giant and THE PC giant entered the market, and they entered the market becasue they followed the money trail. MS introduced W95 and W98 as THE gaming platform of the future, at exactly the time the PC game market started to loose in a landslide to the console market.

It's easy to criticize Nintendo for past flaws and mistakes we're all aware of, but Nintendo didn't do so far not so bad considering the two financial giants they have to deal with. I seriously doubt that a "normal" CD format or a DVD playing capability of the GC would have helped at all. I think that the unfortunate design of the Cube with the launch color had certainly a more negative impact for sales up to today becasue it reduced Nintendo imagewise to a niche market, an image they have to loose if they wanna be competitive. There is a retro-gaming negative bias which is a big obstacle for N.

They tried a lot of good things though. They made the Cube developer- friendly, they paid money for exclusive deals with publishers to get rid of the kiddie and old-skool gamer image, they terated third party developers better than in the past, they presented an unprecedented line-up of their strongest franchises within six months, they're trying to open the burdened realtionship with SquareEnix to get an even better line-up of games. They tried a lot, and still nothing helped becasue it turned out that once you give an already established system with a "cool" image a headstart, it's difficult if not impossible to catch-up. Even MS with all its clout, "cool image", great hardware specs strategy, and adult oriented market strategy was unable to manage it. The market is overheated right now with a high number of great quality titles, which means that certain developers (and increasinly more so in the future) in trouble will go for the most established system as the example of Acclaim and Eidos show.

Nintendo is in trouble, but I don't hear the death bells ring. Key is that N will hold on to the monopoly in the handheld market to compensate for losses in the console market; but this won't happen. At least one of the giants will enter the handheld market becasue there is a lot of money to earn, and second it's a startegy to get one competitor out of the market. If you recognize that one of your competitors stands on one leg, you try to cut it off or at least cripple it so he can't walk..

For the next gen systems, Nintendo has to do much better in the console market; but this will be very difficult, and can only be managed with an image change. How? I have no idea, there are no easy receipes. One thing is for sure, Sony won't get a headstart anymore from Nintendo or MS. Nintendo might recover, but it's probably their last chance.

...and, yep, Japanese firms know bankruptcy and competition, oh how they know both very well. :)

[Duncan]

I punched in with what I thought was a pretty solid and well-reasoned post back on page two; apparently no one noticed it in the least. Thanks for that!

Anyway...


If there is a decline in the gaming industry, as some have said that might happen, Nintendo could survive it, where I think Sony would cut it's losses and pull out of the gaming market.

...does anyone else think that Sony is perhaps causing a "second crash"? Some of the same signs are appearing -- lots of crappy and rushed-to-market licensed games (the Matrix and Tomb Raider franchises for starters), new developers arriving out of nowhere to turn out a bunch of titles on the cheap, retailers and companies putting all their eggs in the most profitable basket. Plus, there's a definite over-reliance on the success of one company that even makes it hard for other industrial giants to gain competitive ground.

The familiar "PS" logo starts to look a little like Atari's "A" symbol when you squint the right way, doesn't it? :roll:

Maybe I'm being a bit premature, but consider the current "dung-to-gold" ratio among PS2 games at the moment. How many games now being released have definite long-tem star quality, honestly? And note that many marginal titles nowadays have to drop somewhere under $30 before they start to see any real sales.

Think also about the growing backlash against violence and immoral behavior in video games. It's something that's been an ever-present theme through the medium's history, but is now gaining even more prominence as the world grows increasingly more worrisome. (Remember the crime waves of the 1980s and early 1990s, and how people tried to point to various video games as part of the problem? Now compare those tame little diversions to something as realistic as Grand Theft Auto...see the point?)

And on a related note, realize that we're right in the middle of a major generational and political attitude shift -- some have postulated that this same sort of societal upheaval may have contributed to the first video game crash.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, but maybe we ought to start preparing just in case something untoward occurs in our beloved hobby.

Duncan :D

[hydr0x]

Not true; Sony makes money with every PS2 sold, and has since about the 20-million mark, when the company's enormous R&D costs were recouped.

-- Z.

where do u take this bullshit from????? Sony recently announced they will reach break-even (get all development costs back) in the mid of 2004


I know that SONY and Nintendo are looking at the next gen of consoles (as they should be), and that Nintendo will have ONE more chance to do things right. They have to offer something better than what SONY does in terms of hardware. They HAVE to make it affordable, and/or compatable with the GC in some way. They MOST definitely have to make it play DVD. AND most importantly, they absolutely have to have a decent sized library of truly innovative and kick ass games at launch.

do u really think DVD compatibility will be of any importance in 2005????? in 2005 no one will NOT have a dvd player, there will be (and already is) no need for a console that is able to play dvds in mediocre quality

[Mayhem]

Do you know though... how many people are happy with playing DVDs in mediocre quality? Answer... a lot! In fact a lot of early Japanese sales of PS2 were so people could have a cheap player, the buyers hardly touched the games at all :roll:

[NvrMore]

How does it make me a Sony fanboy to cite facts and figures? As I've said before and will say again, it would personally benefit me if the PS2, Xbox, and GCN were all thriving; I'd have more things to write about and more opportunies to make money. But as it stands, it's a Sony industry, and I just freelance in it. On a professional level, Sony treats me like dogshit, whereas Microsoft is wonderful to work with, so I certainly have no motives in that regard.

Without trying to drag individual specific critisism into the focus, but the point is the majority of the time your "facts and figures" are either conveniently one sided while turning a blind eye to other equally relevant "facts and figures" or your arguments are decidedly clouded by personal opinion and bias.
Taking for example your jaunt into the PSP at the beginning of this thread you're essentially pimping for a piece of hardware which isn't even developed yet, has no proven capabilities, has initial hardware specifications that would push manufacturing expenses beyond a limit by which even the money bazooka that is MS would be hesitant to front the financial hit in order to put it below $250, and which even by the predicted power delivery/consumption standards of 3 years from now would have a battery life of a Lynx running on rechargables. Indeed you're openly declaring it to be the gaming tech miracle of the new millenium based on little more than Sony's on PR routine and and an ill percieved perception of Sony having some miraculous manufacturing capability which simply doesn't exist, especially given to their inability to produce a standard PS2 at a cost below $100 and the shortcommings of their other divisions (all of them) resulting from their manufacturing cost proving higher than the competitions (thereby resulting in their higher shelf price).

In the meantime, you condemn (for example) Nintendo as being the "first loser" for being second in the console hardware market.. yet given the fact that N are making a healthy profit and have statistically maintained/gained market share given the higher state of competition in the market, as far as businesses and business aims (key point: profit) go N are actually performing better in relation to the other competitors given that they started out making profit on their hardware from the word go and continue to build fanancial grounding and future backing in the forms of their 2nd party investments and developments (*deep breath*), whereas in Sony's case despite their being #1, their other divisions are draining Sony's reserves and placing increased pressure and drain on the computing and gaming division in order to compensate for their losses, thereby compromising it and limiting current and potential advantages it may have had otherwise.

What this all means is that for future product releases, Sony is unable to take a significant financial hit in order to place their products initial pricing at an acceptible price to the consumer if the manufacturing cost proves costly, especially if they also plan the release of another significant hardware product (ala PS3), otherwise they will inevitably compromise said other product. So if/when manufacturing costs prove too high they cannot underwite them ala MS because unlike MS they don't have other divisions capable of supporting the burden until the manufacturing costs drop and the marketshare has been gained and because of the company's overall relevantly (relevant to holding #1 spot and the performance of the company as a whole) poor past financial performance they don't have the massive financial grounding/reserves to underwrite such a double expense.

...

With regard to Nintendo stopping production (again), if you're going to bring up the point of demand then it worth noting a few things.

Firstly, all of the console manufacturers have significanly lowered their predicted sales forecast and have acknowledged a significant downturn in demand for console hardware, that includes Sony who have in turn lowered their estimates by several million units for this and the upcoming fisical year. This is in relation to a growing slump in the gaming market despite the PR generated image to the contrary depicting a thriving, limitless bountiful market. Indeed market analysts have predicted said slump to continue and increase at least until the next revision/generation of hardware is released after which the state of the market can be reassessed.

Secondly, in tune with the above, all of the manufacturers overestimated market demand, largely based on a poor perception that the "boom" would continue indefinately - the only difference is the face that they put on the whole thing, whereas some put their hands up and say "oops" others put a brave face on and cover for the market downturn for the sake of not cracking the previously mentioned PR image of a booming and popular market.

..

With regard to Sony's massive output figures and the point of the quality of their hardware.

Well, firstly Sony declares how many units it has shipped as opposed to sold, there is a massive difference. This isn't to say that Sony isn't the market leader and doesn't have a significant lead, of course they are. However figures for shipped units take into account additional factors which don't relate to a systems sales, including backlogged stock held by retailers and mid-shipping storage and returned hardware (if a sold unit is returned faulty, another is given to the cust, thereby accounting for 2 units shipped despite the purchase of only 1) which given the PS2's high rate of return works out nicely.

Which leads on the the PS2's hardware quality (or lack thereof) issue. Yes the PS2 has far poorer construction than other consoles, you'd have to be blind, deaf, dumb and deluded not to recognise such an issue. Everywhere accross internet people (even the devoted PS2 fans) admit and vent about the issues encountered, the return rates in games and electronic stores are far higher as most store clerks will state, I couldn't even begin to tell you the number of people I know who have had a PS2 pack up on them (in some cases several times) only to be met by a unsurprised and expectant member of staff at the store, the lawsuit brought against Sony regarding the issue, the loss of dvd and game playback functionality.. it goes on and on.

It certainly doesn't happen because the units are "used so much more", it's far higher than is proportional to the number of units sold and it's certainly not a crack group of ninja pigmies flooding the net on a vicious campaign to slander Sony x_x

..

Oh yeah.. disk format choice. The GOD's are an excellent gaming medium and are more aptly designed for gaming than DVD's. They have far more tech advantages than people realise and on a cost basis they not only prove as cheap as DVD media but also given to N's deal with the manufacturer reduce the cost of prducing the gamecube hardware... plus they have the whole anti-piracy deal going on. Benefits for gamers, benefits for business, sweet.

[back on topic]

New free zelda disk.. :rocker:

[mikeetler]

With regard to Nintendo stopping production (again), if you're going to bring up the point of demand then it worth noting a few things.

Firstly, all of the console manufacturers have significanly lowered their predicted sales forecast and have acknowledged a significant downturn in demand for console hardware, that includes Sony who have in turn lowered their estimates by several million units for this and the upcoming fisical year. This is in relation to a growing slump in the gaming market despite the PR generated image to the contrary depicting a thriving, limitless bountiful market. Indeed market analysts have predicted said slump to continue and increase at least until the next revision/generation of hardware is released after which the state of the market can be reassessed.

Secondly, in tune with the above, all of the manufacturers overestimated market demand, largely based on a poor perception that the "boom" would continue indefinately - the only difference is the face that they put on the whole thing, whereas some put their hands up and say "oops" others put a brave face on and cover for the market downturn for the sake of not cracking the previously mentioned PR image of a booming and popular market.

Only thing wrong with the above is that Sony announced an increase of production from 2 Mil/month to 3 Mil/month within weeks of Nintendo's production halt. You don't increase produstion just to please shareholders and the PR department.

While I would love to see the Gamecube thrive, the last time we saw a company "temporarily" stop production was Sega and we know how that turned out. I'm not saying the Gamecube is finished, but Nintendo is definitely having a hard time defining and marketing to their customer base.

[Ed Oscuro]

Words, words, words...

Facts will say whatever you want them to say, ESPECIALLY if you find the right ones reported the right way ;P

I'm not getting into it for just that reason, and I would like to say that I think anybody who's interested in keeping their credibility should not contribute any further to the confusion in this thread.

[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[SoulBlazer]

I just think if you're going to bash something or someone you should throw in some good things also. Or maybe that's just the kind person in me. :D

And there are many things Sony and Microsoft have done right, just like Nintendo. (Heck, Sega has done a lot of right things also -- perhaps their biggest is saving themselves from going under and focusing on cranking out what they have ALWAYS done best -- great games! :-D )

[Ed Oscuro]

[quote=hydr0x]Ooh, a little fanboy flare-up at the end.

While DVD players are indeed the fastest-selling home-electronic doohickey ever, DVD compatibility will still be of importance in 2005, yes.

-- Z.

Well, nevermind...guess you've just got your mind set on disproving every one of the little bastards, eh? :P

I wouldn't have had the time to go research the facts, but it's nice to know that somebody's willing to back up what they say.

[zmeston]

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[zmeston]

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[digitalpress]

I enjoy debates like these IMMENSELY. Thanks for keeping it flame-proof fellas. And thanks for opening up and showing "how the other side thinks".

See? Logic is our friend.

[Ed Oscuro]

I never have a happy-gamer hat on, except in real life I'll let people tell me that the new Mac G4s (yes, not a typo there) absolutely blow the PC out of the water. Heh...

[zmeston]

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[hydr0x]

Not true; Sony makes money with every PS2 sold, and has since about the 20-million mark, when the company's enormous R&D costs were recouped.

-- Z.

where do u take this bullshit from????? Sony recently announced they will reach break-even (get all development costs back) in the mid of 2004

I'd ask you to provide me a link or source for Sony's announcement of a mid-2004 break-even, then I'll gladly share mine.

-- Z.

no problem, i couldn't find an english news item but a german one (no help to you though), i will shortly translate it:

"In an Interview with the japanese Business-Magazin 'The Nihon Keizai Shimbun' Sonys Chief Financial Officer Takao Yuhara said (and this is a quote): 'As planned, we expect that our investment in the PS2 will be (sorry i just don't know the english word for this, he means the break-even) in the mid of 2004' "

oh, and to your fanboy comment, just because i think dvd compatibility will not be a point in 2005 makes me a fanboy of some brand/console?? that's an interesting connection...

[sisko]

[quote=SoulBlazer]
And the SP is the best portable game system ever made. Masterful design. (Hey, that's a current thing-done-right!) I can almost understand why Nintendo was so publicly nonchalant at E3 about the announcement of the PSP.

-- Z.

True, I can only think of one design flaw with the SP. No interchangeable batteries! What were they thinking?!

Honestly, thats the only reason I haven't gotten one yet. I probably will in due time (IE when my GBA dies), but interchangeable batteries are a huge necessity.

[zmeston]

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[Ed Oscuro]

If I was Nintendo...more portables...more MERCHANDISE and special stuff, books etc for the fans (that's what they used to do, after all, and it can sell well if you know how...less e-Reader!) and less major consoles would be good.