PS2 failure rate

[Dire 51]

I'm curious about this, as over on my forum more than one person has complained about their PS2 just dying for no apparent reason. Mine works fine, for now, but I'm curious as to how many people here that own a PS2 have had it die on them - and maybe even an explanation as to why this happens.

If this has already been covered elsewhere, please point me there and delete this thread. :)

[Masco73]

It not only has been covered, but there is a poll happening right now. Check the posts.

It is amazing to me that from the poll data, the ps2 has around a 50% failure rate in it's short life. That sucks. This is why I wil wait until it is below $100 to buy it. By then, they might have all the bugs sorted out.

[Dire 51]

Okay, I'll go check it out. Thanks!

[Slipdeath]

It not only has been covered, but there is a poll happening right now. Check the posts.

It is amazing to me that from the poll data, the ps2 has around a 50% failure rate in it's short life. That sucks. This is why I wil wait until it is below $100 to buy it. By then, they might have all the bugs sorted out.

thats gonna be soon, i heard there going to try to clear out all the ps2's for the upcoming psx

[Duncan]

It not only has been covered, but there is a poll happening right now. Check the posts.

It is amazing to me that from the poll data, the ps2 has around a 50% failure rate in it's short life. That sucks. This is why I wil wait until it is below $100 to buy it. By then, they might have all the bugs sorted out.

thats gonna be soon, i heard there going to try to clear out all the ps2's for the upcoming psx

Wait a minute...I'd heard that the PSX would be sort of a supplement/upgrade to the standard PS2, rather than a total replacement.

The PSX is supposed to cost something like $400 to $500... :o

And if the PS2 were a car, it would have been recalled about 25 times by now and the world would be carrying torches to Sony's door asking them to get their menace off the roads. :P

Duncan :D

[Evil E]

It not only has been covered, but there is a poll happening right now. Check the posts.

It is amazing to me that from the poll data, the ps2 has around a 50% failure rate in it's short life. That sucks. This is why I wil wait until it is below $100 to buy it. By then, they might have all the bugs sorted out.

thats gonna be soon, i heard there going to try to clear out all the ps2's for the upcoming psx

Wait a minute...I'd heard that the PSX would be sort of a supplement/upgrade to the standard PS2, rather than a total replacement.

The PSX is supposed to cost something like $400 to $500... :o

And if the PS2 were a car, it would have been recalled about 25 times by now and the world would be carrying torches to Sony's door asking them to get their menace off the roads. :P

Duncan :D

Yet ANOTHER reason to buy an Xbox rather than a PS2! OK, OK call me a fan boi! Or you could just play your Dreamcasts!

[hezeuschrist]

Actually all the current model PS2's are on their way out to make way for a model with a power button on the remote (ARGH, HOW I LONG FOR THEE), IR ports and a quieter fan. It's bound to have longevity upgrades after all the flack Sony has taken for it... right? :/

Not the PSX, the new PS2. It'll look the exact same, just be better and even support progressive scan. At least that's what I'm told, haven't actually done any research.

[zmeston]

It not only has been covered, but there is a poll happening right now. Check the posts.

It is amazing to me that from the poll data, the ps2 has around a 50% failure rate in it's short life. That sucks. This is why I wil wait until it is below $100 to buy it. By then, they might have all the bugs sorted out.

thats gonna be soon, i heard there going to try to clear out all the ps2's for the upcoming psx

#1: The poll elsewhere in the forums is NOT, in any way, representative of the big picture. It's interesting and informative, but most definitely "for entertainment purposes only."

#2: As pointed out by Raedon (thank you, Raedon!) in another thread, recent models of PS2s are much less prone to failure than early models. If you go out and buy a PS2 today, you'll get a later model.

#3: The PS2 won't drop under $100 for a long, long while yet, and if Raedon's info is accurate, the bugs have already been sorted out.

#4: The PS2 will NOT be replaced by the PSX. The PSX is an ultra-high-end PS2 and a testbed for PS3 features, aimed at electronics whores as opposed to gaming whores, and Sony is marketing it in a completely different way.

-- Z.

[lendelin]

#1: The poll elsewhere in the forums is NOT, in any way, representative of the big picture. It's interesting and informative, but most definitely "for entertainment purposes only."



Don't belittle the polls for entertainment purposes only. :) It's more than that, and it's more than mere anecdotal evidence.

I know statistics, I just ran 6 time series-regression analyses with Stata before I read your comment. I know the limits of this simplistic poll, but it certainly gives you a trend for sure!!!

The cases are not randomly chosen, the Q isn't broken down into categories, neither did I choose a Q in dialogue form which proved to be more reliable for your fancy pantsy statisticians out there, and there won't be 800 to 1000 cases, ...the list of deficits is long :)

however:

- it targets System owners which frequent one of the most poular videogame websites

- the age range is pretty good, and the regional variety is pretty good, although not represnetative and might be biased (goes for other socio-demographics as well)

- even with the low number of cases (around 30 to 80) with non-quality variables I can run even a simple difference of means test in order to determine if there is a statistically significant difference between the groups.

In lack of any relaible "big picture" data (meaning how many repairs of a system, which repairs, for different regions) a trend isn't so bad. Additionally, sometimes impressions and your gut feeling based on real-life experiences are sometimes a good way to go, as every politician knows in an election campaign despite sophisticated polling. :)

It seems so far that there are "probs" with the PS2 to a much higher degree compared to the other systems, despite the wide range of probs without clarification, hardware-software misunderstandings and so on. It will certainly give you an interesting trend, not just an entertaining read :)

[christianscott27]

me wonders stupid things, i never read manuals

do i need to turn it off with the back power switch or can i just leave it be for days with that front LED on?

does using it in the vertical standing position have any effect on its lifespan?

[kevincure]

If you turned off the back switch, you'd be the one and only person ever to turn off the switch. When I unplug the system, I try to remember to flip the switch, but unless you're concerned about a tiny increase in the electric bill, I don't think you need to worry about it.

[Duncan]

me wonders stupid things, i never read manuals

do i need to turn it off with the back power switch or can i just leave it be for days with that front LED on?

does using it in the vertical standing position have any effect on its lifespan?

It's supposed to be more reliable and run cooler when it's vertical, though I doubt there's any strong evidence to support that. But I'm sure someone will disagree... :)

Duncan :D

[nesuser2]

a few things..........

if i run my ps2 non-vertical in the glovebox of my car will it run hotter and cause problems? i may consider changing that.......but the fan is vented out the back of the glovebox.........

i don't think the ps2 is what it should be. a good gaming console it is, a solid system it isn't. give me all the figures you want but i've still seen way too many problems for ps2's for it to be solid. a solid system is more like a dreamcast or even the original playstation(which still had problems with the bearings to hold the cd in busting out).

a few things kind of off topic, but why does everybody pick apart the xbox so hard. i always hear......i have a PC......or it's so loud. so what.....is it just because it's made by microsoft or what? you have a pc which is louder than an xbox and an xbox surely isn't a pc otherwise microsoft never would have created it(yes i realize the internals of an xbox).

i think the console world has turned into an all out war, and nobody creates the best system they can.......it's just a rush. they want it out by christmas.....it happens every time. the only company that has built a solid machine is nintendo......and although i love my gamecube, i just don't see the games going anywhere. they need to pick it up a little......so like i said......kind of off topic......but it kind of fits as well.

[maxlords]

If you turned off the back switch, you'd be the one and only person ever to turn off the switch. When I unplug the system, I try to remember to flip the switch, but unless you're concerned about a tiny increase in the electric bill, I don't think you need to worry about it.

Not true! I flip the switch off EVERY SINGLE TIME I'm done using the PS2. I just feel that it's easier on the system, so I've always turned it off after every use. I have a release PS2...maybe that's part of why it's lasted so long? I also never play DVDs or music CDs in it, and I've stored it vertically since the day it was purchased. All anecdotal evidence of course, but some of us DO turn off taht damnable switch in the back EVERY time. I've never left my PS2 on after I was down with it, not even once.

On a completely unrelated note, I hate the placement of the power switch on the PS2, because it's so inconvenient to flip! :D

[zmeston]

- it targets System owners which frequent one of the most poular videogame websites

With all due respect to Joe and everyone involved with the care and feeding of digitpress.com, I wouldn't categorize it as "one of the most popular videogame websites."


- the age range is pretty good, and the regional variety is pretty good, although not represnetative and might be biased (goes for other socio-demographics as well)

MIGHT BE biased?! I guarantee that people who don't even own PS2s are voting "Yes, I've had a problem with mine." Such is the strange sickness of system loyalty.

-- Z.

[zmeston]

On a completely unrelated note, I hate the placement of the power switch on the PS2, because it's so inconvenient to flip! :D

There is (or most likely WAS -- I can't imagine it's still in production) a peripheral called the "Power Switch Relocator," which addressed your very concern. It was a Rube Goldberg-ian device with a switch on the front that "connected" to the power switch on the back. I mocked it mercilessly in my review, not thinking someone would actually complain about taking the extra two seconds to reach behind his or her PS2. Ahem.

-- Z.

[The Unknown Gamer]

The only thing I know that at 2 local video games stores they reccomend you get an extended warrenty when you buy a PS2 and at a nearby EBX they had as many as 50 PS2 returns in 1 day

[sisko]

me wonders stupid things, i never read manuals

do i need to turn it off with the back power switch or can i just leave it be for days with that front LED on?

does using it in the vertical standing position have any effect on its lifespan?

I noticed that after about a year, the drive tray started to sag and not open as smoothly anymore.

[ManekiNeko]

#1: The poll elsewhere in the forums is NOT, in any way, representative of the big picture. It's interesting and informative, but most definitely "for entertainment purposes only."

#2: As pointed out by Raedon (thank you, Raedon!) in another thread, recent models of PS2s are much less prone to failure than early models. If you go out and buy a PS2 today, you'll get a later model.



Your second point kind of cancels out your first, don't you think? You've been claiming for a while that the PS2 failure rate has been overexaggerated, but in the same breath you admit that the new PS2s are less likely to malfunction than the first models. So it would seem that there really IS a problem with these consoles breaking, a problem that Sony has only recently addressed.
Personally speaking, I've never had any trouble getting my own Playstation systems to work properly. I've run into problems with friends' systems, and rental systems, however. The editor of Game Zero (and now Polymer City Chronicles) told me that he went through four original Playstations, and it was almost impossible to make his fifth work. I had lots of "fun" trying to get his copy of Namco Museum 2 to run on that piece of junk.
I really do think there's an issue with faulty Playstations and Playstation 2s. Sony's been trying to sweep the problem under the rug for years. That bothers me, but it's even more frustrating to watch other people do it, even if it's in the name of objectivity. The sad fact is, not all systems are created equal, and Sony's are generally a lot worse than their competitors.

JR

[zmeston]

#1: The poll elsewhere in the forums is NOT, in any way, representative of the big picture. It's interesting and informative, but most definitely "for entertainment purposes only."

#2: As pointed out by Raedon (thank you, Raedon!) in another thread, recent models of PS2s are much less prone to failure than early models. If you go out and buy a PS2 today, you'll get a later model.



Your second point kind of cancels out your first, don't you think? You've been claiming for a while that the PS2 failure rate has been overexaggerated, but in the same breath you admit that the new PS2s are less likely to malfunction than the first models. So it would seem that there really IS a problem with these consoles breaking, a problem that Sony has only recently addressed.

How does #2 cancel #1?

Yes, I believe that the failure rate for PS2s has been exaggerated, due to the sheer numbers of PS2s out there. Six times as many PS2s as the competition = six times more failures, as a matter of course.

Incidentally, I believe that the GameCube "fails" less than the other consoles primarily because it doesn't have a CD/DVD tray. We've all heard the joke about the new PC owner who calls tech support and asks about the built-in retractable drink holder, right?

No, I don't believe that a website poll of 50 or 60 people reflects much of anything, for many many MANY reasons (and many of which the pollster, to his credit, concedes in his wrap-up post).

Yes, I believe (not "admit" -- yeesh) that newer PS2s fail less frequently than older models, a belief reinforced both by Raedon's info and the fact that consoles are always tweaked and improved over their production cycles. Doesn't mean I believe that earlier PS2s were malfunctioning at a scandalous rate, or that Sony is involved in a conspiracy to hide that fact.

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

What about the, although weak, evidence that Sony just does'nt use as high grade parts in their systems as they could, as compared to Nintendo, which has ALWAYS built their systems to last through hell and back? :)

[zmeston]

N/A

[maxlords]

I noticed that after about a year, the drive tray started to sag and not open as smoothly anymore.

I've had mine vertical since release day and NEVER had this problem.

[maxlords]

On a completely unrelated note, I hate the placement of the power switch on the PS2, because it's so inconvenient to flip! :D

There is (or most likely WAS -- I can't imagine it's still in production) a peripheral called the "Power Switch Relocator," which addressed your very concern. It was a Rube Goldberg-ian device with a switch on the front that "connected" to the power switch on the back. I mocked it mercilessly in my review, not thinking someone would actually complain about taking the extra two seconds to reach behind his or her PS2. Ahem.

-- Z.

Honestly, it's incredibly inconvenient with the way my system and entertainment center are wired up, and I'd happily buy such a product, if it fit the right way on my system. lol

No one but me ever switches it off though :D

[zmeston]

N/A

[lendelin]

zmeston:
No, I don't believe that a website poll of 50 or 60 people reflects much of anything, for many many MANY reasons (and many of which the pollster, to his credit, concedes in his wrap-up post).



Well, then tell me a couple of the reasons over there. :) It's not representative, was never intended to, I'm not mailing out 3000 letters with a 40 item questionaire, get then around 500 back, create a data set, and can run great regression analyses with about 50 varaibles, gimme a break. :)

But the overall trend, for THIS website of system owners who were willing to participate is undisputed. Gimme ONE bias of the target population which would question seriously the result. :) To ignore the result would be truly ignorant.


Yes, I believe (not "admit" -- yeesh) that newer PS2s fail less frequently than older models, a belief reinforced both by Raedon's info and the fact that consoles are always tweaked and improved over their production cycles.

As I explained in my post, doesn't this mean a POSITIVE bias of the PS2? The other systems are younger, therefore there wasn't so much time to correct some hardware flaws?...which makes the PS2 results even worse compared to the results of the other systems.

Don't hold onto wanna belief. :)

[zmeston]

N/A

[Anonymous]

Zach I think thie issue that Lendelin is trying to address here isn't a 'conspiracy' to release poor hardware, but rather pointing out the fact that PS2 hardware was faulty, or at least had more faults than Sony's usual hardware. Do you not agree that the PS2 has seen a good share of hardware failure?

[lendelin]

Awakening is always good. :)

I'm sorry, but your comments don't make sense at all.


Give you one bias of the target population of this forum? Already did: system loyalists (my nice way of saying "fanboys," since that word gets me in trouble) who don't own a PS2 but would claim to have had problems with it, anyway.

Gimme a break. :) This is not a bias towards ONE SPECIFIC system!! If the bashing bias exists, then it's spread across all systems and will affect all systems. Or do you assume that there are only PS2 bashers out there, dishonest ones, but no GC bashers and XBox bashers? Does the XBox, big bad Microsoft and Bill Gates enjoy such a positive image? With the same argument I could say that there are PS2 fanboys out there who bashed the Xbox and were dishonest. Give people some credit, it's sufficient that 90% of the people are honest, and the honest/dishonest ones are sperad equally across all systems. YOU introduce with an unrealistic assumption a bias, not the participants. :)

But let's be unrealistic as you are, or let's say that the low number of cases allows for a wide error margin. 20% of all guys who reported probs with the PS2 were dishonest bashers, and there were absolutely no XBox bashers and GC bashers out there becasue the PS2 guys are very honest people. The PS2 still looses in a landslide.



The PS2 sold more launch units than the Xbox or GameCube, so there were more early models to fail in the first place.



These are PERCENTAGES, percentages are independent from the number of total sales. The argument there are more hardware probs reported becasue there are more PS2s out there is a total number argument, percentages kill it with a gun. Besides, this is completely besides my point about the positive bias and doesn't even scratch it.



But I'm skeptical by nature, so I don't jump on conspiratorial bandwagons unless I'm pretty damn convinced that I should.



I'm the last one who believes in conspiracy theories; how does the results of the poll together with reports about hardware probs of the PS2 make you believe that there is a conspiracy? ....but i think you might believe in it. Do you really believe that the results are PS2 bashings? Do you really believe that store emplyees have an incentive to lie? Do you really believe that freinds who tell others abot their problems have an incentive to lie?? There might be distortions and mispereceptions mainly becasue there are more PS2 out there, but I think the poll put an end to that.

Look, if two guys tell you something then this might be exceptional anecdotes. If ten guys tell you similiar things then this should you make you suspicious. If 40 guys tell you similiar things who have no incentive to lie to you and don't even know you, man, then you have to admit that the mere anecdotal evidence blah blah is over.

Selective anecdotal evidence is tterrible when done by guys like Walsh, Lieberman, and Kohl who have a political agenda. They draw pics who have nothing to do with reality.; but I don't think that guys who love their game systems and often have more than just one have such a political agenda.

[zmeston]

N/A

[SoulBlazer]

I think that's what I was trying to say, Zach. :) Only other people did it better then I did. No, I don't think the PS2 has a HIGH rate of failue, it just seems to be more failue prone then any OTHER current system, especily with how much use I'm sure most units get. I strongly suspect Sony did not use as high grade parts in the system as they could have, at least for the first year or so of production units.

And regardless if the PS2 actually HAS preformance problems, the PERCEPTION out there in the gaming world is that the units DO have problems, and that could come to cause trouble for Sony at some point. Microsoft worked quickly to deal with any early problems with the XBox exactly for that reason.

It also annoys me that Sony seems to be keeping so quiet about this. A co-worker of mine sent his PS2 back to Sony last week because it won't read DVD's anymore. It was only a few months old. When he called Sony to complain, the rep gave him a code he could use in the return form that would get him his unit repaired free -- even though the warrenty period was past. I wonder how many times Sony has done that over the last few years? LOL

Also, I heard a news report a couple months ago that a good law firm here in the state of Rhode Island was preparing a class action law suit aganist Sony on behalf of people with defective PS2's. They had something like three thousand claims (yes, I know, small number) so far, when Sony got wind of it and offered to repair anyone's PS2 free who was involved in the suit. Huh. :hmm:

I really don't hate Sony -- I use my PS2 all the time, love the system, love the games. I just don't think Sony is handling the problem the most effective way -- they could just release info that PROVES there is not a problem, but the rumors are allowed to fester.

[lendelin]

Gimme a break. :) This is not a bias towards ONE SPECIFIC system!! If the bashing bias exists, then it's spread across all systems and will affect all systems. Or do you assume that there are only PS2 bashers out there, dishonest ones, but no GC bashers and XBox bashers?

I do feel there are MORE PS2 bashers than GC and Xbox bashers, as there's an unusually strong resentment of Sony amongst the hardcore segment; perhaps not surprising when you consider it's the company that drove Sega out of the hardware biz, and is trying to do the same with Nintendo. But that's another topic.


But let's be unrealistic as you are, or let's say that the low number of cases allows for a wide error margin. 20% of all guys who reported probs with the PS2 were dishonest bashers, and there were absolutely no XBox bashers and GC bashers out there becasue the PS2 guys are very honest people. The PS2 still looses in a landslide.

That's true. No argument there. It lost in a meaningless poll.


These are PERCENTAGES, percentages are independent from the number of total sales. The argument there are more hardware probs reported becasue there are more PS2s out there is a total number argument, percentages kill it with a gun. Besides, this is completely besides my point about the positive bias and doesn't even scratch it.

50% of the pollees (and we all know how painful that can be) claimed issues with their PS2. That's ludicrous. That's a Coleco Adam number. That's Wal-Mart calling up Sony and saying "What the FUCK?!" That's nationwide recall. I cannot take that percentage seriously, not for a nanosecond.


I'm the last one who believes in conspiracy theories; how does the results of the poll together with reports about hardware probs of the PS2 make you believe that there is a conspiracy?

We agree to disagree on the relevance of the poll results, I'm afraid; you think they mean something, but I think they mean nothing.

*I* don't believe there's a conspiracy; I was talking about another people who feel that Sony has "swept this [the hardware problems] under the rug." But if PS2s really take a shit as often as some people seem to believe, a rug the size of Brazil couldn't hide such a problem.

I get the feeling that we're going to go 'round and 'round until I declare that I've "seen the light," but the only thing I'm confident of at this point is that the failure rate for PS2s has decreased over time, which is hardly a shocking relevation. Was the failure rate of early PS2s abnormally high? You have to define "abnormal."

In another thread, I assumed that of the 60 million PS2s Sony has manufactured to date, 50 million have been purchased and are being used. How many of those would have to be defective to be considered an abnormally high rate of failure? One million PS2s? That seems like a lot, but it's just 2%, which seems pretty damn reasonable to me. What would you consider the point at which an expected rate of failure becomes abnormally high?

Incidentally, if it makes anyone feel any better, I freely acknowledge the hardware issues of early PS1 units, which caused me no end of grief. Is it possible that Sony had similar manufacturing growing pains with early PS2 units? Certainly.

-- Z.

EDIT: Looked up your profile -- now I understand your spirited defense of polling.

I responded in the "Poll result" thread. It belongs there because the posts refer directly to the poll.