Games with a fatal flaw?

[Hypnotuba]

Hi! Just wondering if there are any games that you find to be good or great. . .except for a design or gameplay decision that greatly diminishes the experience. Something that makes you go, "If only they didn't do THAT. . .this game would be fantastic."

The game that inspired me to write this is Test Drive Le Mans (Dreamcast version). When I got that game a few years back, I loved the tracks, graphics, and control, but was surprised when I found out that the AI strength and driving model difficulty are not independently adjustable.

This leads to a problem (for me) where the Intermediate level of difficulty is too easy, but if you put it on Expert, it is too difficult, because not only does it make the driving model more challenging/realistic, it makes the AI drivers better. The Intermediate level therefore doesn't really prepare you for Expert.

If they'd only allowed you to use a realistic driving model with an intermediate AI strength (or vice versa), it would be one of my favorite games. Sorry if it sounds like I'm whining about the difficulty, but it would just be nice to have a smoother ramp up in the difficulty level from Intermediate to Expert. :)

Anyway, hopefully this topic hasn't been covered before. Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts!

p.s.: I didn't mentioned the easiest level, Amateur, because it is so easy that most everyone would move on to Intermediate very quickly.

[Half Japanese]

Perhaps not totally off topic, but a different slant on it:

I've heard that the Pirates of the Carribean game for Xbox has a flaw that won't let you complete the game 100%, which is pretty darn sloppy in my opinion of the developers (and the publisher for releasing something that is obviously unfinished).

One game that gets on my nerves for the reasons you mentioned is Rayman 3. At least the humor in it. I'm pretty hard to please when it comes to comedy and I felt that Rayman 3's humor was very forced and didn't add anything to the game. The humor in Kung Fu Chaos is also hit or miss.

Oh yeah, and Metal Slug(s) for the NGPC have this terrible part after a while where the game ends and some credits roll. I hate when that 'glitch' happens ;).

[Flack]

I probably stand alone here, but ...

I pretty much hate every home console version of Star Wars (the arcade port). Why? Because UP is DOWN and DOWN is UP!

Now, I know with a yoke in your hand it feels very natural and makes a lot of sense, but with a joystick it gets more difficult for me and with any "thumb-pad" controller it just becomes impossible. It's like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time; as many times as I remind myself, my brain can't remember that up and down are reversed, but left and right are still left and right. Actually it wouldn't be so bad if I was just worried about the 4 directions, but when I try to get my cross-hairs to move to the "bottom left" for example, I can never get it right. GRRR! What makes it so frustrating is that I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan and love this game in the arcade.

Flack

[ubersaurus]

Wind Waker would have been sweet, if it had actual challenge.

[Bratwurst]

I just recently played through System Shock 2, and can say the models were pretty bad even for its time. Downright ugly- the only reason I jumped into it again and actually finished it was because someone made a patch with updated, custom meshes.

Rebirth. (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/etienne.aubert/sshock/sshock_rebirth.htm)

Aside from that the difficulty is pretty steep right from the start and the weapon system (usage, damage) is a mess because it tries too hard to be realistic but fails, utterly.

[SoulBlazer]

Can't believe someone is saying bad things about one of the best games of all time (System Shock 2). :D

Looks like a nice fan site you linked to, though. Thanks!

[hezeuschrist]

Wind Waker would have been sweet, if it had actual challenge.

I always wondered what it looks like when you die in that game... I might go back and find out one day.

[lendelin]

Blaster Master (NES), such a great classic game, why wasn't a save or password feature included? Even if you know the game in and out after lots of tries, you still need about two hours to finish the game. The missing save/password feature was the obstacle to make it one of the absolute all-time greats.

[GrandAmChandler]

Wasn't there a Sega Master System game where if you purchased a certain sword at a shop, it would turn off the game or something? Arggh I hated that. was it Ys?

[Darth Sensei]

Vice City has at least 1 fatal bug. I remember playing it for PS2 and saving at one of those extra save points you earn/buy along the way. If you save at that specific point, the guy who calls you on the phone for missions won't call again. It's a bug and it made me have to re-start my game after hours of playing.

If you want to know where it is specifically, I found it at gamefaqs.com.

Dave

[maxlords]

I just recently played through System Shock 2, and can say the models were pretty bad even for its time. Downright ugly- the only reason I jumped into it again and actually finished it was because someone made a patch with updated, custom meshes.

Rebirth. (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/etienne.aubert/sshock/sshock_rebirth.htm)

Aside from that the difficulty is pretty steep right from the start and the weapon system (usage, damage) is a mess because it tries too hard to be realistic but fails, utterly.


Thanks for the link...now I'm gonna have to play SS2 AGAIN! Woo Hoo! This'll be my third time through it, and in it's time, it was top of the line. Just aging a bit now, that's all. Can't wait to see the custom upgraded artwork. That game was friggin CREEPY when it came out! Especially in the end sections..... *shiver* Honestly, I didn't find the weapons system complex at all...thought it was pretty damned good.....and the game isn't really hard enough...unless you're using the telepath guy instead of the soldier :)

[Jorpho]

I will have to try SS2 sometime, especially with that new mod. (I just wish the characters were dressed a little more modestly in that one. Looks mighty suspicious to have something like that on your monitor, you know.)

[davidbrit2]

Tribes Arial Assault for PS2: the god damned jet packs, the explosive weapons available from every respawn, and the auto aim that LEADS OFF SHOTS. Oh, and every map seems to be just a big open field with some hills. It turns it into a game of "fly around like morons and hope you aren't the unlucky one that's on the ground when a big ass rocket explodes below you." The box says "Goodbye Halo." If that's true, Halo must be the worst game ever.

[Bratwurst]

Honestly, I didn't find the weapons system complex at all...thought it was pretty damned good.....and the game isn't really hard enough...unless you're using the telepath guy instead of the soldier :)

Well, I get worked up about its alleged uber-quality because it gets compared to Half Life since they were made around the same time, and nothing touches Half Life. :D

As for the weapons, I found the pistol would kill things faster than a fusion cannon, equal stats and modifications considered.. that sorta stuff was unbalanced imo. And I really don't think hand guns and shotguns deteriorate -that- fast in real life.

[Kid Fenris]

Wasn't there a Sega Master System game where if you purchased a certain sword at a shop, it would turn off the game or something? Arggh I hated that. was it Ys?

That was Golvellius: The Valley of Doom. If you buy the Valley Sword, the game resets. Despite that, Golvellius is a fairly good action/RPG, much better than the lousy SMS port of Ys.

[davidbrit2]

That was Golvellius: The Valley of Doom. If you buy the Valley Sword, the game resets. Despite that, Golvellius is a fairly good action/RPG, much better than the lousy SMS port of Ys.

I have never gotten a password that the game has given me to actually work. I'm not sure if it's a defective cart, defective programmers, or I just had really bad luck copying passwords those few days. But a password I got from another source worked fine. Weird.

[NE146]

Wasn't there a Sega Master System game where if you purchased a certain sword at a shop, it would turn off the game or something? Arggh I hated that. was it Ys?

That was Golvellius: The Valley of Doom. If you buy the Valley Sword, the game resets. Despite that, Golvellius is a fairly good action/RPG, much better than the lousy SMS port of Ys.

Hey.. I LIKED sms y's :D But then of course it was my first experience with the game and I was on an RPG binge after getting my feet wet with the excellent Phantasy Star. Heck, the tg-16 wasn't even out yet let alone the cd player for it. (U.S. obviously). So to me when the Y's cd hit, it was like just another "graphic improvement" to a game that I had already beat. I'm sure it kicked it's ass though LOL

But anyway, that's really interesting about the sword in Golvellius.. How come I never encountered that? :hmm: Or maybe I did and I just don't remember. Oh well...

I can't say I ever thought a game could be "improved" if only they changed something...at least nothing in recent memory. I pretty much take it for what it is. Time however has a way of rectifying some issues. For example Blaster Master of course when played via emu's has the option of save states anywhere. Matter o' fact, I just beat the game over the course of 2 weeks on the xbox playing it nightly for a couple of minutes LOL Makes the game that much more enjoyable imho 8-)

[bargora]

Any game that fails to give the user the opportunity to take advantage of a game save device (internal or external), instead forcing the use of a password, is badly flawed IMO.

This rant was sponsored by "Doom" for the Sega Saturn.

[Querjek]

Cubivore for GCN... do I need to say more (Even though I did play to 100%)?

[Dan Iacovelli]

I see that impossible mission for the 7800(us version) was over looked in this topic.
because that was where you can't get to the last piece of the puzzle because it actually behind the computer console and you can't move it.
Dan Iacovelli

[ManekiNeko]

4X4 Thunder for the Dreamcast would be one of those games for me. You could tell that a lot of work was put into it, but the game was so damned hard that it was impossible to appreciate its slick graphics and exciting high speed races. The fact that you had to unlock the other rounds made matters worse... the first stage was so damned hard that you could pretty much forget about seeing any of the other ones. Bad Midway, bad!

JR

[ManekiNeko]

Blaster Master (NES), such a great classic game, why wasn't a save or password feature included? Even if you know the game in and out after lots of tries, you still need about two hours to finish the game. The missing save/password feature was the obstacle to make it one of the absolute all-time greats.

Another huge annoyance in that game is the underwater cavern. I have on at least two occasions left S.O.P.H.I.A. just outside the gaping hole that leads to the boss encounter. When I came back up after killing the enormous green frog, I discovered that a large wall had blocked access to my armored car. Do you have any idea how frustrating that is? If you don't, my pile of broken NES controllers could tell you.

JR

[Sofa King Gud]

What about Thief (PC), where the enemy's heads get stuck to the ceiling and stretch out in a long black line... It happened a lot, and always gave away the position of the guards, making it a whole lot easier. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Hypnotuba]

I like all the technical and gameplay flaws listed. Here's one that is far from being a fatal flaw, but it sure did ruin my vibe:

The music that plays at the high-score-name-enter-screen in Rez. I find the game to be so beautiful and almost perfect in terms of creating a mood, and then you get to entering your initials and it's got this cheesy drum beat playing that immediately ruins "the buzz". It's like getting woken up from deep REM sleep or something. :)

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[DDCecil]

On Willy Beamish for the Sega CD, in the final area, there is a room where you must enter a couple of passwords to move on (Plus some guards are on their way to kill you). If you save it in the room, every time you load the game, the guards are already there by the time you finish the password. (Out of 50+ tries, I actually entered the code fast enough only once).

[1bigmig]

But anyway, that's really interesting about the sword in Golvellius.. How come I never encountered that? :hmm: Or maybe I did and I just don't remember. Oh well...


I just played through the one I have a little while back and my game didnt reset either. I bought every sword. Maybe they revised the code at some point?

[Raccoon Lad]

Probably more of Clint Dyer's "contributions"

I'll have to actually sit down and play that game long enough to get to the shop that sells the Valley Sword to see if I can dispell some more false info. I've always intended to play Golvellius through, but for some reason I've only "tested" the copies of the game I've owned. I've got a HUGE pile of games to play, and I always skip over this one for some reason. ..probably due to my love of other genre's.

[Sanriostar]

I probably stand alone here, but ...

I pretty much hate every home console version of Star Wars (the arcade port). Why? Because UP is DOWN and DOWN is UP!Flack

No, your'e not alone. :P

[devilman]

4X4 Thunder for the Dreamcast would be one of those games for me. You could tell that a lot of work was put into it, but the game was so damned hard that it was impossible to appreciate its slick graphics and exciting high speed races. The fact that you had to unlock the other rounds made matters worse... the first stage was so damned hard that you could pretty much forget about seeing any of the other ones. Bad Midway, bad!

JR

I'm glad I'm not alone on that one. I enjoyed Rush & Hydro Thunder but 4 Wheel Thunder was a serious victim of it's own difficulty.

My contribution would be James Pond III. Now, I love everything about the game except one thing.. the password system! It was a long line of things like a red cheese then a blue fish etc and the passwords are quite lengthy. Now I never did find a nice easy way of writing all that crap down! Give me letters/numbers any day.. better still, battery back-up.

As for Golvellius, I never had password trouble or problems with buying a sword and I've been through the game at least twice (maybe playing on a Pal system helps or something daft like that?). I really like the game too.. good mix of play styles. :)

[Raccoon Lad]

On the Coleco at least, it's not the reversed controlls that kills it, it's the "accellerate the cursor as you hold down a direction" controll it has that kills it. If the cursor would have moved at a steady rate, it would have been at least somewhat enjoyable.

[The Unknown Gamer]

I got 2 myself Discworld 1 & 2 PSX if you try to do more than what the game allow. Meaning if you have a walk though and try to do more than one puzzle at a time your save will go bad. But thats not all, if your looking for a game killer Discworld 1 has it. There is a point you got to go to Lady Rampkins Dragon Santuary, while there knock on the door to go around to the back of the house to get some items you need from there. But heres the killer if you don't move fast enough to get round back. The game will freeze.

There is also 2 7800 games Food Fight and Robotron if you rack up too many men in bonus' your game will freeze.