Why choose NeoGeo hardware over NeoRage emu? [Archive]

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Zaxxon

10-12-2003, 01:42 PM

I see some people here who own Neo Geo systems who love to brag about it but in my experience, playing on the actual hardware can be inferior to emulation. A game like Metal Slug 2 slows to a crawl on the Neo Geo hardware. On the emulators you can play it at full speed if you choose. What are we non-NeoGeo owners missing in NeoGeo emulation other than slowdown etc.? NeoGeo just seems like a status symbol item, because of how expensive the games were.

ubersaurus

10-12-2003, 02:32 PM

You miss the same thing anyone who only plays a game in emulation misses.

You miss the very experience of playing the actual game on an actual system, with the actual controls.

Sides, no emulator is perfect. You mentioned speed, but neo rage has a few graphical issues with some games, in my experience. Coulda been the rom dumps, but if I was playing on a neo geo, it wouldn't even be an issue. Quite frankly, I don't know what you mean by slowdown on the neo console and not on the emulator, because the emulator would emulate any speed problems, or have its own speed problems if your computer isn't working well enough.

Sides, games on the MVS are usually inexpensive a little while after they come out. Its the home carts that tend to be pricey.

And then you got the people who just plain don't like emulation, and would rather not play the game then do it on a computer.

hezeuschrist

10-12-2003, 03:12 PM

OK, I've got a mean hankerin for some metal slug right now and I can't for the life of me find any of this crap. I've got the neoRagex file, says I need neo-geo.rom and some other file that are nowhere to be found. Argh.

Everytime I try to emulate something it never works.

Jorpho

10-12-2003, 04:14 PM

Why oh why do people insist on using NeoRageX? I hear nothing but problems from people using that program. Kawaks or Nebula are superior, are they not?

All NeoGeo emulators require the NeoGeo BIOS, typically distributed as neogeo.zip. Various versions exist; the most recent versions are needed for encrypted games like Metal Slug 3.

digitalpress

10-12-2003, 04:39 PM

in my experience, playing on the actual hardware can be inferior to emulation.

In my experience, there's nothing like the real thing, baby.

Why own ANY games when you can just emulate them? Being on this forum as long as you have, you should be able to answer your own question, Zaxxon.

Zaxxon

10-12-2003, 04:53 PM

[In my experience, there's nothing like the real thing, baby.

Why own ANY games when you can just emulate them? Being on this forum as long as you have, you should be able to answer your own question, Zaxxon.

I'm just referring specifically to the Neo Geo hardware and the severe slowdown problems that's on the hardware but not in the faster PC emulations.

jaydubnb

10-12-2003, 05:16 PM

ClubNinja

10-12-2003, 05:44 PM

Here's my take as someone relatively new to the Neo Geo...

Preface: I enjoy 2D games - especially fighters and shooters. While there are plenty of good ones on plenty of consoles, thoses available for the Neo Geo are consistently well above average at worst. In some cases, these games can be picked up as ports on other machines. Just to name a few, I have King of Fighters 95-97 on the Saturn, Last Blade 2 on the Dreamcast, and Metal Slug X on the Playstation. While they're all pretty good ports, they're generally missing something - even if subtle - that the Neo Geo originals sparkle with. For example, after playing Last Blade on my MVS, I'll probably never touch the Dreamcast port again due to the lack of atmosphere (sound, music, visuals), if nothing else. So for me, it made plenty of sense to play Neo Geo games.

Now, why buy the real thing when I can play emulated games instead right here on my computer? Well, just before I started collecting games, I was essentially collecting emulators and roms. I began to recognize how much I enjoyed all these games from various eras and of various styles. I'm a collector by nature, so of course it was easy for me to get into collecting the real things instead of the roms. But for a more practical reason, I spend enough time each day doing *work* in front of a computer, so if there's a way for me to play my games away from the darn computer, then I'm going to jump on it. In the past four years, I've purchased exactly three PC games. Only two of them were played regularly, and only one was played long-term. None of them have been touched in about a year. Getting *away* from the computer to play games is key for me (while some would argue they're the same thing, for me, there's a big difference.)

So here I am, fresh off of building my Neo Geo MVS "console", and I couldn't be happier with it. I get to play the kind of games I enjoy the most, on hardware that's detached from any computer, and I even have something more to collect in MVS cartridges and their kits/artwork. It's no status symbol for me - it's a realistic and reasonable solution to my gaming desires. MVS is hardly as expensive as the zillion dollar home carts that you're focusing on. I haven't paid more than $35 for an MVS game yet, which is probably about what you'd pay for any game on a new home console - in fact, after flipping through today's Best Buy flyer, it's even less than what you'd pay for the average new title.

The short answer is that, for people who prefer to play the real thing or just want to get away from the computer for a little while, and enjoy the games that the Neo Geo has to offer, playing on real hardware as opposed to the emulator is the most logical decision that could be made. I'm very happy with my setup and hardly in any sort of financial hole because of it.

And, as already stated, Metal Slug 2 is the only game I've heard of that suffers from any drastic slowdown issues, and those got fixed by Metal Slug X. Your mileage may vary.

jaydubnb

10-12-2003, 06:01 PM

Here's my take as someone relatively new to the Neo Geo...

Preface: I enjoy 2D games - especially fighters and shooters. While there are plenty of good ones on plenty of consoles, thoses available for the Neo Geo are consistently well above average at worst. In some cases, these games can be picked up as ports on other machines. Just to name a few, I have King of Fighters 95-97 on the Saturn, Last Blade 2 on the Dreamcast, and Metal Slug X on the Playstation. While they're all pretty good ports, they're generally missing something - even if subtle - that the Neo Geo originals sparkle with. For example, after playing Last Blade on my MVS, I'll probably never touch the Dreamcast port again due to the lack of atmosphere (sound, music, visuals), if nothing else. So for me, it made plenty of sense to play Neo Geo games.

Now, why buy the real thing when I can play emulated games instead right here on my computer? Well, just before I started collecting games, I was essentially collecting emulators and roms. I began to recognize how much I enjoyed all these games from various eras and of various styles. I'm a collector by nature, so of course it was easy for me to get into collecting the real things instead of the roms. But for a more practical reason, I spend enough time each day doing *work* in front of a computer, so if there's a way for me to play my games away from the darn computer, then I'm going to jump on it. In the past four years, I've purchased exactly three PC games. Only two of them were played regularly, and only one was played long-term. None of them have been touched in about a year. Getting *away* from the computer to play games is key for me (while some would argue they're the same thing, for me, there's a big difference.)

So here I am, fresh off of building my Neo Geo MVS "console", and I couldn't be happier with it. I get to play the kind of games I enjoy the most, on hardware that's detached from any computer, and I even have something more to collect in MVS cartridges and their kits/artwork. It's no status symbol for me - it's a realistic and reasonable solution to my gaming desires. MVS is hardly as expensive as the zillion dollar home carts that you're focusing on. I haven't paid more than $35 for an MVS game yet, which is probably about what you'd pay for any game on a new home console - in fact, after flipping through today's Best Buy flyer, it's even less than what you'd pay for the average new title.

The short answer is that, for people who prefer to play the real thing or just want to get away from the computer for a little while, and enjoy the games that the Neo Geo has to offer, playing on real hardware as opposed to the emulator is the most logical decision that could be made. I'm very happy with my setup and hardly in any sort of financial hole because of it.

I agree with this 100%. I've played some ROMS and IMO it kills the experience playing it on my monitor. I wanna kick back on my couch, feet up, and lay a smacking on Geese on my big screen TV.

digitalpress

10-12-2003, 06:14 PM

Ed Oscuro

10-12-2003, 06:31 PM

I used to be the sort of person who could stand emulation, and who would say "TVs kill my eyes anyways"

That's BS. I play my Nomad (with its rather Bleh screen) with no problems.

I've found since getting some systems that there really isn't anything like it. I might use an emu to practice, but games aren't any fun if you're sitting there hitting the load state button (as I unfortunately do). With the exception of a few very hard games, it's more fun to play with the knowledge that you can screw up, it adds some tension.

Also, an emulator is at best a nice GUI and some programs. The sound isn't always as nice (when poorly emulated) and even on the nicest emus I think the sound has too sharp a feel to it (i.e. fiddling around with sound tests in Gens).

Finally, Atari emulators have proven, in my experience, to be a pain. I haven't looked too hard but I didn't find one that wasn't DOS based. There aren't any really good proper SMS emulators yet, either.

Jorpho

10-12-2003, 07:38 PM

You find MEKA unsuitable for the SMS?

Berserker

10-12-2003, 07:54 PM

personally I use MAME, it also works as a Neo Geo emulator if you didn't know, works well too. but thats only because I haven't yet got the money to put towards buying the actual hardware. when I do, you can bet the emu is getting no more play, theres just no substitute for a controller in your hands, a cartridge in the system and a comfy chair in front of the TV.

Ed Oscuro

10-12-2003, 07:56 PM

You find MEKA unsuitable for the SMS?

Yes.

Plays too fast in "windowed" mode, with lots of little things that annoy me. I hate fullscreen only emus.

AB Positive

10-12-2003, 08:18 PM

The feeling of playing a Neo on real Neo hardware is truly immense. I used to spend dollar after dollar in the arcade across the street on such classics as Art of Fighting and King of Fighters '94... and the feel of the stick and the buttons...

It's that "gotta play it on the real thing" syndrome.

-AG

Sotenga

10-12-2003, 08:59 PM

KAWAKS IS TEH ROOL!!!!!!!!!!!1111 :wired:

In all seriousness, Kawaks is how I experience the godly wonders of the Neo Geo. I have been an NG whore ever since playing Samurai Shodown. Did I mention that Genjuro Kibigami is God? Anyway, I'm having a bit of trouble finding a few roms here and there, but I'm not going to ask anyone for them. That would be illegal, and I would most likely be banned from this excellent forum. So I won't go into it. But Kawaks has it all. So what if I'm screwing SNK out of thousands of dollars? I just don't have that kind of money, ya know? :hmm:

maxlords

10-12-2003, 09:01 PM

Personally I hate emulation. The resolution is too high for the games and so they come out looking crappy on a monitor, and my PC's sounds is crap next to my TV's.

Also, as far as I know, cart based Neo Geo games almost never have slowdown!

Ed Oscuro

10-12-2003, 09:06 PM

Personally I hate emulation. The resolution is too high for the games and so they come out looking crappy on a monitor, and my PC's sounds is crap next to my TV's.

Can't solve for the sound if yours is bad, but I always manage to fix MAME so the resolution is correct. Wouldn't have all my screenshots if I couldn't do that :)

Captain Wrong

10-12-2003, 09:08 PM

Just curious, have you ever A/B compaired a real Neo cart system with emulation? Even on my crap TV, the real thing just looks better. The colors look better, the animations smoother, etc., etc.

I've even compaired Neo to emulation to Saturn port on Sam Sho III (as that's the only game I have on all 3 forms) and again, it's the Neo by a long shot.

I understand why someone would question spending so much money on a Neo when emulation is pretty good. Hell, I was in that boat before I actually bought one. After owning a Neo, I can't go back to emulation. It just looks flat compaired to the real thing. (I can say the same for the PCBs I own as well.)

Yeah, MS2 has slowdown. That's why they released MSX. I don't really think it was so much hardware as it was sloppy/bad programming. MSX was damn near the same game as MS2 but there's not any slowdown.

Ed Oscuro

10-12-2003, 09:12 PM

It seems to me that Neo Geo games look better on my PC, but not more smoothly animated (thanks to encryption and an early model 1.6GHz Pentium IV, one of the crappy ones).

My TV's not crap, but the A/V cord I got with my Neo Geo AES are awful. I only get sound out of one speaker and two of the inputs (white and yellow I believe) are backwards from.

kai123

10-12-2003, 09:25 PM

If I could afford neo geo hardware and software I would be right there. I might get a MVS some time. It is so much cheaper. My NGPC will do for now.

buttasuperb

10-12-2003, 10:10 PM

Slowdown is part of the game, it can actually help you survive in Slug 2. But if you absolutely hate the slowdown, as others have said, Slug X fixes that.

Sotenga

10-12-2003, 10:13 PM

Slowdown is part of the game, it can actually help you survive in Slug 2. But if you absolutely hate the slowdown, as others have said, Slug X fixes that.

Slowdown isn't bad in minor doses. It angers me when it becomes a common problem. But it can give you the time to evade a bullet speeding right for your head.

Zaxxon

10-12-2003, 11:54 PM

I'm just referring specifically to the Neo Geo hardware and the severe slowdown problems that's on the hardware but not in the faster PC emulations.

Same argument from me. Why play an Atari 2600 which has those ugly scanlines when you can play them on a high quality monitor? Why play Game Boy on a tiny screen when you can do a 17" flatscreen LCD? Why play ColecoVision on those crummy controllers when you've got an X-Arcade stick?

It's the experience of playing on the original systems, even with their particular idiosyncracies, that make them revered by retro gamers. At least the ones I know.

That's a nice sentiment but it's completely impractical. If everyone today decided that NG emulation isn't good enough and we all must play on the real hardware it wouldn't matter because there aren't anywhere near enough NG systems or carts to go around. They didn't produce NG systems and carts in the millions like they did for 2600/Intv/CV. How often do you come across NG home systems for sale? If that's how you really feel you should abandon MAME and only play on the actual arcade PCB's.

pango

10-13-2003, 12:03 AM

i hate neo-geo emulators. they murdered my cat!

Nick Goracke

10-13-2003, 12:21 AM

Let's ignore the obvious moral arguement...

I find the sound to be much better on the home cart system, despite how I change the sampling rate within the emu.

There are a number of games that are glitchy on the emus (most of the soccer games come immediately to mind).

And now a question for you - will an emu really fix the slowdown problems in a game like Shock Troopers 2?

Zaxxon

10-13-2003, 12:24 AM

I've played Shock Troopers 2 on the NR emu and don't recall any slowdown problems.

AB Positive

10-13-2003, 07:51 AM

[quote=digitalpress] That's a nice sentiment but it's completely impractical. If everyone today decided that NG emulation isn't good enough and we all must play on the real hardware it wouldn't matter because there aren't anywhere near enough NG systems or carts to go around. They didn't produce NG systems and carts in the millions like they did for 2600/Intv/CV. How often do you come across NG home systems for sale? If that's how you really feel you should abandon MAME and only play on the actual arcade PCB's.

This is why I'm getting a supergun.

Natch.

-AG