The Top 25 Console RPGs (Take Two)

[Kid Fenris]

Okay, let’s try this again. Due to the “Zelda: RPG or Not?” debate and theaveng’s usual thread-ruining habits, this board's last attempt at a list of the best RPGs went off track in a hurry. I’m giving it another shot, dividing the list into console and PC titles, with 25 spots on each. And to eschew the argument about Zelda, I’ve cut all of the “action/RPGs” from the console list, including Terranigma, Secret of Mana, and so on. We’ll save those, and the strategy/RPGs, for another time. And, as of now, imports are also excluded.

So, using the list and suggestions from the last topic, here it goes . . .

Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Chrono Cross (PSX)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES)
Earthbound (SNES)
Final Fantasy IV (aka Final Fantasy II) (SNES/PSX)
Final Fantasy VI (aka Final Fantasy III) (SNES/PSX)
Final Fantasy VII (PSX)
Final Fantasy IX (PSX)
Golden Sun (GBA)
Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals (SNES)
Lunar: The Silver Star Story (SegaCD/PSX)
Lunar: Eternal Blue (SegaCD/PSX)
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Paper Mario (N64)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (PSX)
Phantasy Star (SMS)
Phantasy Star 2 (Genesis)
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
Skies of Arcadia (DC)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (Xbox)
Suikoden II (PSX)
Super Mario RPG (SNES)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX)
Wild Arms (PSX)
Xenogears (PSX)

So, let’s start debatin’. And remember to mention what you'd take out as well as what you'd add.

[KirbyStar27]

Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger all the way! :D

[GrandAmChandler]

WTF? No shining force?

No ULTIMA?

[dave2236]

Dragon Warrior 4 and Mario RPG

[Kid Fenris]

WTF? No shining force?

No ULTIMA?

Shining Force is a strategy/RPG, so I didn't include it. Which Ultima do you suggest? And what should be taken off to make room for it?

[hamburgler]

What about the Neutopia series on Tg-16. :o

[SoulBlazer]

Okay, here's MY list, modifed from Ken Fenris's list.

I will admit that I have hardly played any RPG's on the Genesis, Saturn, or the Dreamcast, so I'm sticking with the ones I know really well -- NES, SNES, Playstation 1 and 2, GBA.

Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Chrono Cross (PSX)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES)
Final Fantasy IV (aka Final Fantasy II) (SNES/PSX)
Final Fantasy VI (aka Final Fantasy III) (SNES/PSX)
Final Fantasy VIII (PSX)
Golden Sun (GBA)
Golden Sun II (GBA)
Lunar: The Silver Star Story (SegaCD/PSX)
Lunar: Eternal Blue (SegaCD/PSX)
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Paper Mario (N64)
Phantasy Star (SMS)
Phantasy Star 2 (Genesis)
Phantasy Star 3 (Genesis)
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
Skies of Arcadia (DC\GC)
Suikoden (PSX)
Suikoden II (PSX)
Suikoden III (PS2)
Super Mario RPG (SNES)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX)
Wild Arms (PSX)
Xenogears (PSX)
Xenosaga (PS2)

And I could probaly throw in another 5 or so ' border line' ones as well:
Breath of Fire II (SNES/GBA)
Final Fantasy IX (PSX)
Final Fantasy X (PS2)
Legend of Legaia (PSX)
Legend of Legaia 2 (PS2)

I was surprised to see the Suikoden games here, as they DO have some strategy battles, but I guess the core of the game is enough RPG stuff to warrent it.

Looking forward to your Strategy/RPG list. :D

[Azazel]

I'd replace the PC Engine Emerald Dragon with the X68000 one. I'd also replace Lufia 2 with Lufia 1

I would add these ones.

Dragon Quest 3 Snes
Dragon Quest 6 Snes
Soul Hackers Saturn
Shin Megmai Tensei PSX

I would replace these ones.

Xenogears
Xenosaga
Paper Mario
Suikoden 2

As for the person that mentioned about Neutopia. The PC Engine cd action/RPGs are much better. Ys 1, 2, Ys 4, Xak 1, 2, Xak 3, Fray Xak Gaiden, Magicoal, Dungeon Explorer 2, Xak Gaiden all would be better choices for a top 25 list.

If I had to pick a Ultima I would go with Quest for the Avatar, or the False Phophet. Forgot which numbers those are.

[Kid Fenris]

I'd replace the PC Engine Emerald Dragon with the X68000 one. I'd also replace Lufia 2 with Lufia 1

I'll just change Emerald Dragon to "various." I've actually heard that the FM Towns Marty version is the best.

I'm not sure about replacing the second Lufia with the first. Good as it is, Lufia and the Fortress of Doom has a lot of horribly boring battles and tedious dungeons. Lufia 2 has non-random combat, and its levels are full of well-designed puzzles. And that ending . . . whoa.


I would add these ones.

Dragon Quest 3 Snes
Dragon Quest 6 Snes
Soul Hackers Saturn
Shin Megmai Tensei PSX

I added two of those, but I replaced different games. I never saw the appeal of Miracle Warriors, and Sword of Vermilion doesn't really strike me as "great." But if someone wants 'em back on, let me know.


I would replace these ones.

Xenogears
Xenosaga
Paper Mario
Suikoden 2

Xenosaga isn't on the list. Yet. I'm waiting for a second vote in its favor.

[GrandAmChandler]

WTF? No shining force?

No ULTIMA?

Shining Force is a strategy/RPG, so I didn't include it. Which Ultima do you suggest? And what should be taken off to make room for it?


Pull freakin Paper Mario off, and put ANY of the ultima's up there, the SNES ones were good too. Someone needs to back me up on this, if we have an RPG list, Ultima MUST be on there! 8-)

[maxlords]

Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Earthbound (SNES)
Breath of Fire (SNES/GBA)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES)
Final Fantasy IV (aka Final Fantasy II) (SNES/PSX)
Final Fantasy VI (aka Final Fantasy III) (SNES/PSX)
Golden Sun (GBA)
Lunar: The Silver Star Story (SegaCD/PSX)
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Paper Mario (N64)
Phantasy Star (SMS)
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
Skies of Arcadia (DC)
Suikoden II (PS1)
Super Mario RPG (SNES)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX)
Xenogears (PSX)
Shadow Hearts (PS2)
Grandia 2 (DC)
Persona (PSX)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (PSX)
Ys Book I & II (Turbo Duo)
Suikoden (PSX)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (XBox)
Shining in the Darkness (Genesis)

Ok, here's my modded list. I dumped Lunar: Eternal Blue cause it's ass compared to SSS. I also cut Chrono Cross and every import, cause the VAST majority of us DPers can't play import RPGs. Lufia 2, axed for other RPGs as well. Phantasy Star 2, axed for not aging well (I love it, but it's just TOO badly paced!). FFVII axed for fanboy-style suckage, bad story, and amnesia. Warriors of the Eternal Sun....chopped out for aging reasons as well.

Added:
Breath of Fire 1 (translated by Square....very well done!)
Earthbound (one of the most unique RPGs ever made!)
Shadow Hearts (excellent story, great gameplay, everything that FFVII
wasn't!)
Grandia 2 (Sure it had an angsty hero, but the story was great, the
gameplay was excellent, and the DC graphics were CRISP!)
Persona (Wasn't sure if I should add this or Eternal Punishment....both are
unique modern games, and pretty much the only Shin Megami Tensei stuff
we got here in the US! *sob* I decided on both)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (see above)
Ys Book I and II (While the first Ys game isn't a tradition RPG, the series
turns into an RPG style later on with action elements. It's classic, and the
Duo version is THE best version!)
Suikoden (Honestly, I'd say that the Suikoden series for PSX surpassed most
all other RPGs for the PSX really. Even the first one is better than most of
the other stuff on the system....a modern classic!)
Star Wars: KoToR (Yes, it's an RPG...and it's damned good. Great
voiceovers, great story, great graphics if it's not glitching, it's just
GOOD...probably the best current-gen console RPG yet.)
Shining In the Darkness (One of the few straight RPG Shining games, and a DAMNED good one. Hard as hell and really well done. Still looks amazing today!)

Other games I considered:
Dragon Slayer (Turbo Duo)
Wild Arms (PSX..it's REALLY good if you give it a chance...graphics haven't
aged well tho)
Wild Arms 3 (PS2)
Breath of Fire IV (PSX)
Secret of Evermore (SNES)
Paladin's Quest (SNES)
Xenosaga (PS2)
Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land (PS2)
Shining the Holy Ark (Saturn)
Albert Odyssey (Saturn)
Suikoden 3 (PS2) I left this off cause while the story was GREAT, the actual game suffered from painfully bad pacing, a lousy overworld design, an awful battle system (whoever heard of not being able to control individual characters???) and became repetetive as you visited the same towns over and over.

And I do have to say that if I could READ the Soul Hackers and Devil Summoner games for import Saturn, they'd probably be on my list as well :) That's one killer series! Same goes for Dragon Warrior VI. *sniff*

[maxlords]

Pull freakin Paper Mario off, and put ANY of the ultima's up there, the SNES ones were good too. Someone needs to back me up on this, if we have an RPG list, Ultima MUST be on there! 8-)

I vote to keep the Ultimas off. The reason being is that they're all PC ports and were MUCH better on the PC. Show me a classic console-only Ultima, and I might change my mind, but they're really a PC RPG. Definitely not a shining example of all a console RPG can be.

[Kid Fenris]

Ok, here's my modded list. I dumped Lunar: Eternal Blue cause it's ass compared to SSS. I also cut Chrono Cross and every import, cause the VAST majority of us DPers can't play import RPGs. Lufia 2, axed for other RPGs as well. Phantasy Star 2, axed for not aging well (I love it, but it's just TOO badly paced!). FFVII axed for fanboy-style suckage, bad story, and amnesia. Warriors of the Eternal Sun....chopped out for aging reasons as well.

Added:
Breath of Fire 1 (translated by Square....very well done!)
Earthbound (one of the most unique RPGs ever made!)
Shadow Hearts (excellent story, great gameplay, everything that FFVII
wasn't!)
Grandia 2 (Sure it had an angsty hero, but the story was great, the
gameplay was excellent, and the DC graphics were CRISP!)
Persona (Wasn't sure if I should add this or Eternal Punishment....both are
unique modern games, and pretty much the only Shin Megami Tensei stuff
we got here in the US! *sob* I decided on both)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (see above)
Ys Book I and II (While the first Ys game isn't a tradition RPG, the series
turns into an RPG style later on with action elements. It's classic, and the
Duo version is THE best version!)
Suikoden (Honestly, I'd say that the Suikoden series for PSX surpassed most
all other RPGs for the PSX really. Even the first one is better than most of
the other stuff on the system....a modern classic!)
Star Wars: KoToR (Yes, it's an RPG...and it's damned good. Great
voiceovers, great story, great graphics if it's not glitching, it's just
GOOD...probably the best current-gen console RPG yet.)
Shining In the Darkness (One of the few straight RPG Shining games, and a DAMNED good one. Hard as hell and really well done. Still looks amazing today!)

I added a few of these, replacing Soul Hackers with Persona 2, and I can't believe that I forgot about Earthbound. Somehow though, I don't think Breath of Fire is Top 25 material. It was only slightly-above-average in 1994, and it's a really bland RPG today. Shining in the Darkness hasn't aged too well, either.

Some of your other choices are good, but I'll wait for more votes before I go yankin’ and replacin’. I’d like to see Skies of Arcadia dropped, for one.

And Ys Book I and II are action/RPGs, wouldn't you say? Don't worry, they’ll be on the other list.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, I'LL defend Skies of Arcadia -- not the original, cause I never played it, but the remake on the GC. It's really a fun game. And until Crystal Chronicles comes out, it's the ONLY RPG on the GC, much like Paper Mario is really IT for the N64. (I know there were a few others, but I mean decent ones. :) )

[Sylentwulf]

I'd LOVE to ditch Wild arms and put Dark Cloud 2 up there...

[SoulBlazer]

Are you NUTS? NO! NO! NO! Wild Arms ROCKS, both Dark Cloud Games SUCK! :D

[Kid Fenris]

Are you NUTS? NO! NO! NO! Wild Arms ROCKS, both Dark Cloud Games SUCK! :D

Easy there, Marco. Let's call Dark Cloud 2 an action/RPG and set it aside for the next list.

I dunno about Wild Arms, though. It's a decent little game, but the battles get old fast and the story takes too long to develop anything of interest.

[Needle]

Keeping it simple:

I'd like to see Wild Arms on there. The 3-D graphics have not held up, but the sprite graphics are very stylish. It was one of the first RPGs on the PSX platform in America and holds some sentimental value. The music is top-notch.

I'd replace Dragon Warrior VII. The series is represented best with IV. The graphics and sound are low end, the story is all over the place, and the skill system isn't half as deep as it could have been. Oh yea, and it takes the better part of a lifetime to finish. :)

[SoulBlazer]

Yup, everything Needle said. :D

Let's hope that remake of Wild Arms comes out in the States...... X_x

Oh, and, uh, sorry, Kid. Got a little carried away. ;)

[Jorpho]

Well, I'LL defend Skies of Arcadia -- not the original, cause I never played it, but the remake on the GC. It's really a fun game. And until Crystal Chronicles comes out, it's the ONLY RPG on the GC, much like Paper Mario is really IT for the N64. (I know there were a few others, but I mean decent ones. :) )

What about that one for the Gamecube that got ported from the Dreamcast? Evolution, I think it was?

[Azazel]

I would of probably said Emerald Dragon FM Town but I don't want to endorse something I haven't played. The PC versions quite a few differences from the 2 other console versions

The battles in Lufia 2 were just as bad as the ones in the first 1. I enjoyed the story much more in the first one. Not to mention after a while the puzzles got on my nerves.

I'd also say replace Dragon Warrior 7 and have only 3 or 6 on the list or maybe both. I never liked 4 as much but I'll give it another try when I get the PSX version. :)

I'd also replace Shining in the Darkness with Shining in the Holy Ark.

You might also not want to include Golden Sun as it's a portable RPG. If you did include handheld ones I iihnk Saga 2 and Defender of Oasis are better choices.

According to some more knowledgeable people the translation for Breathe of Fire could of been much better. Some people talked about retranslating it at one time. :hmm:

Your just as well just to pass on Devil Summoner even if you can read it. Although they did fix most of the gameplay problems with the seqeul.

[Sylentwulf]

Dropping DW7 wouldn't be a bad idea, that game dragged on like no other game in history, 100 HOURS?! WTF were they THINKING....

As for the dark cloud comments, what the hell are you on? Dark cloud one was an OK game, Dark Cloud 2 was practically a masterpiece. It's been rated as an excellent sleeper hit by ANYONE who has played it (which I assume YOU haven't) Gamespot has it ranked as one of the top ten games of the past YEAR across ALL platforms (at least the last I checked). I can't say ENOUGH great things about Dark Cloud 2, in fact, the only COMPLAINT I can think of, is that max was kinda stupid, but I quickly got past that by using that hot chick the whole game

(who wants to stare at some guys ass the whole game anyways? Never understood that with RPG's, MMORPGS I almost always make a female char, why the hell do I want to stare at a guys ass for 300 hours? Especially when the chicks in the newer MMORPGS are so damn hot? Yes, this is quite the side rant, and I'm abusing the hell out of the () symbols)

[SoulBlazer]

I think that Kid is right -- Dark Cloud 2 probaly belongs more in in the action/RPG list.

Did'nt mean to snap off like that. :D

I will admit to only renting Dark Cloud 2. If I could get the game cheap (under $20) then I'll check it out again.

[calthaer]

Final Fantasy VIII shouldn't belong on any list of games except "worst."

[SoulBlazer]

Funny, I'd say that about 7. :D

[Kid Fenris]

Okay Dragon Warrior VII's out, and Wild Arms is in. Now that I think about it, I should probably pick up a cheap copy of Wild Arms and finish the game. I still have a saved game at level 35 or something.

I'm surprised that no one has suggested Final Fantasy IX or X yet. I enjoyed both of them, and I wouldn't mind adding either one, or even Final Fantasy VIII, for that matter. It had a somewhat weak story, but I dug everything else about it.

And I'd really like to put the first Suikoden up there, even though I don't know what to take off.

[bargora]

*Pops head in*



Final Fantasy VIII shouldn't belong on any list of games except "worst."Funny, I'd say that about 7. :D
Oooh! Fighting words!

*Runs away*

*Gets popcorn*

Where's theaveng when you need him? ;)

[SoulBlazer]

Ah, it's a old story. :D I really don't hate FF7 -- there's not a FF game that I dislike, and if I had to rank the games in order, 7 would be 6th out of the 10. But FF8 would be 3rd. Long story behind why I would do that.....suffice it to say that I found everything much more likeable and believable in VIII then VII and I'm actually a lot like Squall in real life, thus, instant attraction. :) VIII is a game you either love or hate, no middle ground on it, and people will defend or attack the game very hard depending on their view points. This is'nt a FF debate thread and I'd rather not get into a major debate over it, just saying that's why on MY list I took VII out and put VIII in.

Kid, I understand it's hard to find games to take out -- that's why I put FF IX and X on my 'honorable mention' list. I don't think they are good enough to make the cut, but I enjoyed both games.

Wild Arms, I allready explained why I like that game. But the 2nd and 3rd ones were just average to me. I was hoping for games that played like the first one did, and it was'nt anything like that.

And you'll see on MY list I had all THREE Suikoden's on there. :D Even though 2 is far and away the best, they are all wonderfull games. Can't wait for the 4th, which is in the making.....

I would just remove any of the import games that you have left and MAYBE move the Suikoden's to the strat/RPG list when it comes out, cause the games are not PURE RPG. Yeah, I know it's a stretch, but maybe we'd have more room for more games that way. :D

[Kid Fenris]

I would just remove any of the import games that you have left and MAYBE move the Suikoden's to the strat/RPG list when it comes out, cause the games are not PURE RPG. Yeah, I know it's a stretch, but maybe we'd have more room for more games that way. :D

Eh, I'd say they belong in the RPG camp more than the strat section. There are few army vs. army battles in the games, and they're not really heavy on the strategy element.

As much as I like Emerald Dragon, I might just exclude imports. It'd free up one more spot, for . . . .

[SoulBlazer]

Hey, I said it was just a suggestion. :D But yeah, hardly anyone is going to have played the import games.

[Kid Fenris]

Well, Emerald Dragon is gone, and in its place I put Final Fantasy IX. I was torn between IX and X, but IX has somewhat wider appeal. And I figure that if Skies of Arcadia and Golden Sun make the list, FFIX can squeeze in.

Of course, we could always yank it.

[SoulBlazer]

Looks good. The only other thing I might suggest is that we remove the hand held games and make those in a new hand held only list.