The Top 25 PC RPGs (Take Two)

[Kid Fenris]

Okay, I’m attempting another “top RPGs” list for the PC, considering that the last one went nowhere, thanks to you-know-who. This is based on the old list, but I think that a lot of titles are missing. The original Bard’s Tale belongs here, I’d say, and I always liked Septerra Core for some reason. But that's just me.

AD&D: Curse of the Azure Bonds (C64/PC/Amiga)
AD&D: Pool of Radiance (C64/Various)
Baldur's Gate 2 (PC)
The Bard's Tale (C64/PC/Various)
Daggerfall: The Elder Scrolls II (PC)
Darklands (PC)
Diablo (PC)
Exile III: Ruined World (PC)
Fallout (PC)
Knights of Xentar (PC)
Knights of Legend (C64)
Legacy of the Ancients (C64)
Liberation: Captive 2 (Amiga)
Might and Magic 3: Isles of Terra (PC)
Might and Magic 4: Clouds of Xeen (PC)
Morrowind: The Elder Scrolls III (PC)
Planescape: Torment (PC)
The Temple of Apshai Trilogy (C64/PC)
Times of Lore (C64)
Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar (C64/PC)
Ultima VII: The Black Gate (PC)
Ultima Underworld (PC)
Wasteland (C64/PC)
Wizardry 1: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (C64/PC)
Wizard's Crown (Apple 2)

It's kind of dumb to put "PC" after most of these, I know, but maybe it'll jog some memories as far as the C64 games go. Anyway, let's have the suggestions.

Edit: All of the MMORPGs have been set aside for another list.

[thegreatescape]

I dont know what to remove (because I dont really play older rpg's), but the following may be worthy of a place-

Neverwinter Nights- Havent played it, but it looks cool and i hear its good :)

Icewind Dale- More Hacking and slashing than anything else, but still good. Especially for "Frothing Combat Monkeys" like myself :D

Diablo- If it fits the bill as an rpg, then this should be in.

[KirbyStar27]

Ya, Diablo is probably is one of the best if it is considered a RPG! :D

[IntvGene]

I don't know all the titles on the list, but I'll weigh in...

I think that Lands of Lore II should be there. That was one of my favorites I've ever played.

And, my vote goes AGAINST Diablo. I don't think that game did much that Gauntlet didn't do some time before.

I don't know if there's room for Fallout and Wasteland both on that list. My vote would be to keep Wasteland.

[Arrrhalomynn]

I always preferred Baldur's Gate 1 to part 2, but I'd love to see them both in the list.

[calthaer]

I would remove all the MMORPGs from the list...especially Asheron's Call and Anarchy Online. Why on earth would you include those two in the list and not EverQuest? They're far less popular and AO was so buggy that it was unplayable for a good long time.

Games that are subscription-based change a great deal over time as well and because of that (and the fact that they may not be there five years from now depending on subscriptions) I don't think they should be put on a "best of all time" list.

Bard's Tale I was better than II IMO.

The Quest for Glory series should be considered as well.

[Raedon]

remove:

Neverwinter Nights - It's on my "lots of hype/game sucks ass" list for 2002.
Anachy Online boring bug fest.
Asteron's Call - this is a joke right? This game is considered the worst of the 3 original MMORPG's UO and Everquest were both far better MMORPG's.
Bard's Tale 2 is considered the worst of the 3.. many feel that BT 3 is the best but I still think the original had it going on.

You need to include

pool of radiance
Ultima Underworld
The last Morrowind game.

[Sylentwulf]

Ugh, yeah remove Anarchy online IMMEDIATELY, and replace it with Ultima Online.

And you probably SHOULD switch Asherons call for Everquest (even though, personally, I though AC1 was a LOT better than EQ)

[Kid Fenris]

Okay, I yanked some of the less popular choices and changed Bard's Tale to the first game. I don't know about taking off all of the MMORPGs, but it's open to a vote.

I'd like to put Diablo and Morrowind and maybe Ultima Underworld up there, but I'm not sure what to remove.

[Griking]

Might & Magic III, Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen were all much better than Might & Magic II IMO.

Even though Ultima IV is on this list Ultimv V and VII are better games than several other listed games.

[Jorpho]

I suppose it would be really wrong to add Final Fantasy VII, wouldn't it? (Someone was bound to ask.)

How about the Exile trilogy? Everyone seems to like that. (Exile III: Ruined World was the last one.)

[SoulBlazer]

Yeah, I agree with what everyone else said. :)

You GOT to make room for Morrowind -- that's the FIRST PC RPG I've played since Planescape came out, and I played that for MONTHS straight last year and this year. Still fire it up now and then to check things out.

I also don't think any 'online only' games should be on that list -- save those for a new list. :)

A lot of thsoe I have'nt played (always been more of a console RPG'er) so I can't really tell you what to remove.

And I'm amused to see Knights of Xentar on there. :D Great minds think alike, huh, Kid? LOL

[Tritoch]

If buggy Daggerfall is on there, then Morrowind HAS to be on there. And I'm not lobbying for Daggerfall to be taken off. :)

[Kid Fenris]

Okay, all of the MMORPGs (I think) and a few other titles have been cut, but most of the suggestions are up there. Icewind Dale and Diablo still aren't, though I'm at loss as to what else I should cut. Unless it's . . .


And I'm amused to see Knights of Xentar on there. :D Great minds think alike, huh, Kid? LOL

Actually, I've never played it. It's just there because it was on the old list, no one has yet called for its removal, I've heard it praised on occasion, and it seems . . . unique. I might check it out, even if a "hentai RPG" doesn't really sound like my kind of game.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,2/gameId,1665/

[SoulBlazer]

You've never played Knights of Xentar? :) It's actually a very good game. It's the third game of a series but only this one came out in the States. I only have the old disc version but a CD version with voices exists also, but good luck finding THAT these days. The regular version is easily obtainable from abandonwere sites, though.

The game makes complete and total fun of all RPG's -- your hero is a loveable but stupid man driven by his hormones, he sleeps in every day till Noon, hits on all of the ladies, swears and cusses -- you're laughing all through the game. LOL Never seen a game make fun of another before.

And it IS unqiue. Only this month did JAST USA, the biggest seller of hentai games in the States, release a hentai RPG game. The name escapes me right now (I'm sure it's plugged on their website) but it's suposed to be quite good.

[hydr0x]

Might & Magic III, Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen were all much better than Might & Magic II IMO.

Even though Ultima IV is on this list Ultimv V and VII are better games than several other listed games.

yep, totally agree with you there ;)

how about the "Das Schwarze Auge" Series?? was it released in the us?

diablo really has to be in there, remove Daggerfall, it had way to many flaws to be in this list, totally overhyped

[SoulBlazer]

No, I'll defend Daggerfall. It WAS buggy, but once the bugs were worked out you had a wonderfully opened ended and fun game, and Morrowind just took the foundation of that and improved on it.

Arena, the first game in the series, was quite good as well.

[BigBoogie]

Ya, Diablo is probably is one of the best if it is considered a RPG! :D

I would say it is the best.

[Kid Fenris]

Okay, Diablo in, and . . . . uh, Phantasie out. Any objections?

[IntvGene]

Where did Dungeon Master go? Either the first one or Chaos Strikes Back should be in there.

I would also agree with an earlier post that Hero's Quest (Quest for Glory) is a worthy addition.

Finally, I think that if you are going to allow action games like Diablo in, you might want to think about adding System Shock to the list.

[SoulBlazer]

And if you include System Shock, you have to include the second. :D

[Jorpho]

Actually, the inclusion of Diablo would probably lend itself more to the inclusion of either Nethack, Rogue, or Ancient Domains of Mystery.

(Crikey, I suddenly feel so irredeemably geeky!)

[calthaer]

Actually, the inclusion of Diablo would probably lend itself more to the inclusion of either Nethack, Rogue, or Ancient Domains of Mystery.

(Crikey, I suddenly feel so irredeemably geeky!)

I'm more in favor of including later, more-refined iterations of an idea and leaving out its predecessors.

[Azazel]

The only good PC RPG I remember was Wasteland. :P

[Jorpho]

Actually, the inclusion of Diablo would probably lend itself more to the inclusion of either Nethack, Rogue, or Ancient Domains of Mystery.

(Crikey, I suddenly feel so irredeemably geeky!)

I'm more in favor of including later, more-refined iterations of an idea and leaving out its predecessors.

If I am not mistaken, there are a lot of people who claim that Diablo is far less refined than Nethack. If you're worried about graphics, look for the "Falcon's Eye" port.

[Griking]

Might & Magic III, Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen were all much better than Might & Magic II IMO.

Even though Ultima IV is on this list Ultimv V and VII are better games than several other listed games.

yep, totally agree with you there ;)

how about the "Das Schwarze Auge" Series?? was it released in the us?

diablo really has to be in there, remove Daggerfall, it had way to many flaws to be in this list, totally overhyped

I have to disagree with you there. While Daggerfall did have some bugs, most were fixed eventually with patches. The final release of the game was fantastic.

[calthaer]

Adding a bazillion features to a game does not necessarily "refine" it and make it a better game. IMO Nethack is bloated, pure and simple.

[Kid Fenris]

Hmm . . . While I see a bunch of worthy additions, I'm lost on what to take out. Dungeon Master and Quest for Glory should probably go up there, but what should leave? Wizard's Crown? Legacy of the Ancients? Darklands?

[Ed Oscuro]

I have to disagree with you there. While Daggerfall did have some bugs, most were fixed eventually with patches. The final release of the game was fantastic.

I bet Hydr0x was reading that GameSpy Top 25 Overrated Games list recently ;)

[hydr0x]

LOL no i didn't read it, i checked it out but i didn't read the different comments and stuff, and i did in now way think about that article when mentioning Daggerfall, i was more thinking of some old reviews of it. As far as i can remember, it didn't even get good scores here in germany, i guess they also realized that it didn't keep up with the expectations everyone had :)

with flawed i did not (only) mean bugs, but gameplay flaws

[IntvGene]

I don't want to make things more complicated here, but it seems like we are stretching ourselves too thin.

Looking at the current list, we are trying to bring in titles from twenty years of gaming... and half of them are from C64, Apple II, etc. and the other half is a mix of PC and Amiga titles. I think we are mixing up two homogenous groups of games. And, when we consider games that are less-loosely defined as RPGs.. Diablo, System Shock, Hero Quest, and others it gets even more messy. As if defining RPG already wasn't difficult enough.

I just see that alot of our titles here are strategic turn-based, classic RPGs and some are first-person action RPG games. Maybe we should either try and add some more varied titles (and use a loose definition of RPG) or try to limit the scope of our list (as we've already excluded online MMORPGs).

Just another 2 cents from me.