PAL.....anyone? (aka the impossibility to collect seriously) [Archive]

Zubiac666

10-22-2003, 07:36 AM

Well,isn't it pretty darn hard(or better:impossible) for euro-gamers/collectors to collect SERIOUSLY games?
I mean: There are NO complete rarity lists for PAL-NES games and stuff.
I'm in this situation (I live in Austria) and all I (can) do is driving around buying pal NES-games without having a clue what I'm getting (if it's rare or worth the price).
I even think it's impossible to complete a PAL-set of consoles like NES,SNES,Genesis/Mega Drive,Master System....just think of all the language and label varities.

So,what are u(the other euro-collectors) doing?
Is there any chance for us to escape the collectors-hell?
Are we forced to don't know the real value of our collection?
:shameful:
http://smile.smilies.nl/1490.gif

Vroomfunkel

10-22-2003, 07:42 AM

Well you're not entirely right ...

There is a pretty much complete PAL Saturn list up at www.wokhoss.co.uk - also there is a new, but growing list up at www.diehardgamer.co.uk

Now, the trouble is that some rarities will differ widely from country to country in PAL regions. As for title / label variations ... my advice on the whole is to ignore them. Otherwise you will indeed have an impossible task. Just settle for one copy of each unique game. That seems more sensible.

As I said, the list at DieHardGamer.co.uk is not perfect at the moment, but it has only just started really. My advice is to write in with any new games you find that are not on the list, or any info that you come up with. That is what I have been doing. These things need some input to make them work ... Joe didn't write the entire DP Guide on his own , you know! And there isn't going to be a comparable PAL guide unless there is a bit of similar co-operation :-P

Vroomfunkel

Arrrhalomynn

10-22-2003, 07:55 AM

I'm not sure if the lack of lists is a problem for collecting. If you see a game you don't have yet, you buy it. No matter what the rarity of it is. That said, it's nice to have a list to see how many games you still need. I don't see it as a necessity though.

As far as language versions are concerned, I always try to get the english version, even if there's also a dutch version. If I ever plan on selling the games, I probably get more for an english version since it appeals to a larger group of people.

I know a lot of people loath ebay, for it's inflated prices, but I still think it can be a great help when determining the value and rarity of a game.

anagrama

10-22-2003, 08:29 AM

I'll also buy English langauge games wherever possible, and just get foreign versions if they weren't released here.

As far as rarity lists, I can't help you with the NES, but Racoon Lad maintains an excellent Master System list on this very site (click Rarity Lists at the top of the page). I'm in the process of revamping the Megadrive list, which should be ready (with rarities) in a couple of weeks [fingers crossed], and I believe Ruudos and Hydrox are currently working on the SNES list.

If there's anything in particular you're wondering about rarity/values for, I'm sure some of the knowledgable Euro-DP'ers will be able to give you a rough idea.

hydr0x

10-22-2003, 08:36 AM

there are complete PAL lists of:

Dreamcast
32X
MD
MCD
Saturn

though the MD/MCD/SAT lists are almost certain still missing games, DC and 32X are complete though

Ruudos and i are working on a complete SNES list

for the country problems, what i'm doing is:

i try to get all games that have german boxes plus the english version of all games that have no german one

you have to love sega for making most games european and not german or english or whatever, e.g. dc only has about 10 pal games that have a special german release, all others are european (german,french,english,dutch/italian/spanish) releases which are the same in whole europe (don't know for australia)

i don't collect australian games at all, they are PAL but it's like Japan<->USA, both are NTSC but noone would say a collection is only complete if you have all japanese and american games. i collect european games, not pal!!!!! (french games are not pal but secam btw)

anagrama

10-22-2003, 08:40 AM

though the MD/MCD/SAT lists are almost certain still missing games

Yup, I've found another 5 or so Megadrive (mainly sports) games that I missed off the list first time around. I'm pretty confident that it'll be 99% complete once I get the revised version finished though.

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 08:43 AM

Hmm, I consider myself to be serious in collecting PAL games, but I limit myself enough that I've only got a few wanted purchases as it is :P I don't have much problem finding the few games that I want, though, so I'm not falling into the category of a serious collector that the thread refers to (though I have no idea why only collectors interested in complete collections are considered "serious," hmm).

PAL collecting is highly underrated, which is a shame.

anagrama

10-22-2003, 09:19 AM

PAL collecting is highly underrated, which is a shame.

Nah, that's the beauty of it - (relative) lack of competition :)

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 09:40 AM

Heh heh :D

dreamcaster

10-22-2003, 10:53 AM

You think PAL collecting is hard? Try PAL collecting in Australia.

Actually, here's the best way to sum in up in a nutshell:

1. Double the rarity of everything.
2. Double (if not more) the price of everything.
3. Forget about ever owning half of the consoles released in NTSC territories.
4. Realise that your measly collection of 150 games took about as much money, time and effort as it would've an American collector to amass 500 games.

</rant>

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 11:00 AM

I personally really want to get a copy of the SMS Shadow Dancer out of Australia, really bad. o_O

Asylum Seeker

10-22-2003, 11:01 AM

A long time ago myself and a few others (some who are on these very boards) started to get together trying to compile PAL lists - they probably still exist somewhere. Not sure what happened but we kind of gave up.....shame cos it was fun :)

dreamcaster

10-22-2003, 11:05 AM

I personally really want to get a copy of the SMS Shadow Dancer out of Australia, really bad. o_O

If I see it around I'll let you know. But why so desperate?

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 11:14 AM

One of the SMS's best games, if it was released in the US you can bet it'd be on the top 10 list. Also, working on a Shinobi site, which I've got to get finished up enough that I can start getting hosted.

NvrMore

10-22-2003, 11:21 AM

Well, I only seriously collect for the PAL SNES and I only do that for the reason that I really like the system, so the issue of valuing my collection has never really bothered me too much. I know what I have and I know what it's worth to me.. so in that respect the relative lack of any solid rarity/value isn't really anything more than an inconvenience.

When I started picking up SNES games again and moved onto actually collecting for the system I just started collecting info about the games/releases myself as it became available and just started to build my own lists/info base from there.

To be honest I like the lack of info about the PAL side of the system, building my own information base makes for a nice addition to the actual collecting side of the hobby and I do quite like the surprises that come with discovering something which I didn't previously know existed/was released. Not putting down NTSC collecting, but for me it lacks the element of discovery and uncertainty that PAL collecting provides.

As for the question of "is it rare?"/"worth the price?" when buying games, for me it tends to be more a case of "do I already have it?"/"do I want to play it?"

Now what's really tragic is the number of systems and games I pass over (SMS, MD, 32X, Mega CD, Saturn etc.) for the sake of the fact I only collect for the SNES :o

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 11:27 AM

My only PAL SNES game is Super CV 4; I like the box more than the US version what with the silvery look and better placement of text (i.e. the clunky game abstract box cutting into the box art on the US version is repositioned on the European version thus leaving the artwork unchanged).

I like the newer PAL Mega Drive boxes as well, the blue themed ones like Comix Zone (never mind the artwork on that specific title, though...only the Japanese release has half decent cover art and even that's slightly marred by the silly inclusion of nonsense English onomatopoeia). It also seems to me that they kept the high-quality plastic cases longer than U.S. releases did.

Also, odd as it might sound, I like the two NES Probotector games. There's no radical changes to the game but the new artwork makes for a refreshing change. Don't like the SNES Probotector much, though. I think you have to admit that Contra Hard Corps' box art fares better as remixed for Probotector, as well, though once again nevermind the game changes.

Saturn Sensei

10-22-2003, 11:33 AM

NvrMore

10-22-2003, 11:47 AM

Raccoon Lad

10-22-2003, 11:51 AM

I personally really want to get a copy of the SMS Shadow Dancer out of Australia, really bad. o_O

It wasn't just released in Australia. In fact, the Australian OziSoft manufactured SMS games are total crap compared to the quality of the games that were manufacturted in Japan (available in Europe). The OziSoft cart labels suck, and the boxes are like a 1/4 inch shorter than other SMS boxes. Overall, I steer CLEAR of Australia for SMS stuff seeing as most of the SMS games there were manufactured by Ozisoft.

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 11:58 AM

hydr0x

10-22-2003, 12:12 PM

PAL collecting is fun because it is so unorganized, it reminds me of the early days.

These guys have some interesting articles and such. Based in Finland.

http://www.pelikonepeijoonit.net/articles.html

Here are some of my PAL DC gems:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/md_saturn_dc/lst?.dir=/Games&.view=t

Oh, and NvrMore, I only have one PAL SNES game, Soul Blazer. Heard somewhere that it is rare??

that finish site has the DC list i use for my collection, it's one of the best pal collecting sites

your DC gems are nice, though there are some rare games missing ;)

Taxi 2 is not too hard to get, pops up once a week on german ebay between 10-30 EURO

Rez is harder if i'm not wrong, but the price is nearly the same

Pro Pinball Trilogy is also a nice item, don't have it yet, i LOVE the pc version of those games, i hope the dc version is worth the hunt ;)

Evil Twin is easy to get, even sealed, it's the last release but not really hard to get, it's uncommon, but not rare

Shenmue II is still available in some stores for about 30-40? SEALED

I don't consider headhunter as rare, it's always on german ebay 10-20 times

Raccoon Lad

10-22-2003, 12:38 PM

Still need it for the site. Can't very well pretend to be creating the world's most exhaustive English-language Shinobi site without mentioning that one LOL

But yeah, I'd like the normal PAL version (was there a Japanese release? I don't doubt it but I can't remember seeing a picture recently.)

There was no Japanese release, the MarkIII died in 1989, and many games from 1989 were never released in Japan (Wonder Boy 3, Outrun 3D, Time Soldiers), even though there's Mark III logos or japanese in the ROM.
Though if you want, I've got a beat-up loose Aussie Shadow Dancer I'd let go cheap. Though, the game was specifically programmed for PAL machines, so there's the occasional monor glitch on a NTSC machine (very minor usually)

Ed Oscuro

10-22-2003, 12:42 PM

I'll pass on the beat up Aussie copy :P

Good info though! Sad to hear it didn't get a Japanese release, box art would've been very interesting for me to see if it would've been the same as the Japanese Mega Drive title or totally new.

Saturn Sensei

10-22-2003, 02:12 PM

Oh, and NvrMore, I only have one PAL SNES game, Soul Blazer. Heard somewhere that it is rare??

Depends on whether the documentation and in-game text is in english or not.

There's actually a few versions that were released in PAL format. Nonetheless it's a good one to have and the only one remaining of the trilogy that I still need (someday.. :o ).

It is all in English(according to the box). It has SCN on the cart, which I assume means Scandinavia. I got as part of a trade for some Japanese and US SNES titles.
Do PAL titles work on a US SNES hooked up to a US TV??

Oh, and HydrOx, I only collect the PAL DC titles not released in the US. Therefore, I am missing rare stuff like Evolution 2, etc.

anagrama

10-22-2003, 03:41 PM

[
Do PAL titles work on a US SNES hooked up to a US TV??

Not straight out of the box. You'll need a modded console, or a decent adaptor cart (an Action Replay 2 hasn't let me down yet)

hydr0x

10-22-2003, 04:32 PM

It is all in English(according to the box). It has SCN on the cart, which I assume means Scandinavia. I got as part of a trade for some Japanese and US SNES titles.
Do PAL titles work on a US SNES hooked up to a US TV??

if the cart says SCN there SHOULD be a difference between that version and the EUR version, if the rom didn't differ they used EUR carts even in games that have NOE or SCN or whatever on the box

but even if it's exactly the same rom the SCN version is always rarer than the EUR one ;)

Oh, and HydrOx, I only collect the PAL DC titles not released in the US. Therefore, I am missing rare stuff like Evolution 2, etc.

aaaah OK, Evolution 2 is rare????? that was one of the first ten games i got for dc, it cost me about 4? incl. shipping and i "bought" it on ebay, so mhhhh doesn't seem rare to me....

NvrMore

10-23-2003, 06:11 AM

It is all in English(according to the box). It has SCN on the cart, which I assume means Scandinavia. I got as part of a trade for some Japanese and US SNES titles.
Do PAL titles work on a US SNES hooked up to a US TV??

Yeah, that's a good one to have (If you're ever looking to unload it, let me know ok ;) , although if you could manage a few pics I'd appreciate it).

As for playing PAL on a US SNES and TV, you won't be able to without making at least a few modifications to your SNES deck. Some people have mentioned that you may be able to use a Action replay as a converter but I'm not so sure that such would work given the tech differences (could be worth a look though).

anagrama

10-23-2003, 08:14 AM

Some people have mentioned that you may be able to use a Action replay as a converter but I'm not so sure that such would work given the tech differences

Not so sure about the Action Replay 1, but as I said, my Action Replay 2 hasn't let me down yet when playing PAL games on my US SNES.

Zubiac666

10-23-2003, 04:00 PM

yeah..the action replay 2 plays every game(exept Mario RPG) on every console....amazing
I've it for my pal-snes and it even plays games with 60hz check with no probs
highly recommended
they are cheap as hell too (ebay)

off topic: OHO...just realized that lik-sang.com offers free-shipping for nearly all games!!

Saturn Sensei

10-23-2003, 04:02 PM

Here are some photos of the back and front of Soul Blazer(PAL).

HERE (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/md_saturn_dc/lst?.dir=/Games&.src=ph&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/md_saturn_dc/vwp%3f.dir=/Games%26.dnm=10230002.jpg%26.src=ph&.view=t)

hydr0x

10-24-2003, 03:20 AM

NvrMore

10-24-2003, 06:31 AM

Here are some photos of the back and front of Soul Blazer(PAL).

Thanks, much appreciated. :)

Ruudos

10-24-2003, 12:59 PM

if the cart says SCN there SHOULD be a difference between that version and the EUR version, if the rom didn't differ they used EUR carts even in games that have NOE or SCN or whatever on the box

It's a bit tricky. Not every PAL game has an EUR version (especially earlier games that weren't popular, because popular games were often re-released). I believ EUR carts were released later in the SNES life (for NES there weren't EUR carts.

The more the lsit gets complete, the better the insight to this system will be.

Saturn Sensei

10-24-2003, 05:45 PM

OMG I'm dense, of course SCN is Scandinavia. "Imported to Scandinavia by Bersala AB" right on the box should have been my first clue..........

Ruudos

10-25-2003, 02:11 PM

These are the different codes, after them the countries where games with these codes were officially released.

AUS = Australia
ESP = Spain, Portugal?
EUR = Europe
FAH = France, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg
FRA = France
FRG = Austria, Switzerland
GPS = Probably United Kingdom
HOL = Holland
ITA = Italy
NOE = Germany (Nintendo of Europe)
SCN = Scandinavia (Denmakr, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland)
UKV = United Kingdom, Ireland?

hydr0x

10-25-2003, 02:40 PM

eh Ruud, are you sure FRG is Austria and Switzerland only, i'm pretty sure it's also Germany (Federal Republic of Germany)

Ruudos

10-25-2003, 06:33 PM

Could be, but maybe it stands for 'FRenchGerman'?
Another point is that the boxes and manuals of these games are in French and German.
Also on the box and/or manual of these games is always info about the distributor in Austria and Switzerland.
And there's already NOE for Germany, although that doesn't prove everything (because GPS seems to be for the UK too, next to UKV, although I only seen 1 GPS-cart.)

Last, Killer Instinct wasn't released in Germany, but there's a FRG-version.

Please note that I said 'officially released', because I've bought SCN, NOE, UKV and that GPS cart here in a normal toy store in Holland back in the days.

hydr0x

10-25-2003, 07:33 PM

mhhh, french & german sounds ok, have to check my games if every frg game is also french, Switzerland has French as third official language, so this may be the reason why there is also french text, but as far as i remember, e.g. Zelda has a -FRA version, totally french, and a SFRG version, german only...

i've got a lot of frg games that also have those distributor stickers due to the fact that i got my snes+15 games from an austrian seller...