How Good Was The Atari 7800?

[Aswald]

I know the sound was inferior, but other than that, how did the 7800 compare, technically, to the NES and the Sega Master System?

Assume the level of competence displayed by those two other companies.

[Dr. Morbis]

I don't think it could have touched the SMS, but it could have easily rivalled/surpassed the nes 'technilogically'. The problem is that this system was never pushed to it's limits. what it could have done and what it actually did do with the games that were released are two very different things.

But it's still a fun system and I recommend it for some of it's system exclusive 8-bit gems.

[NE146]

I think it compares pretty favorably..

However. wasn't the 7800 developed and supposed to have been released before the famicom/sms were created? So in a sense it's sort of a half generation before them? I dunno *shrug* :P

[Darth Sensei]

I think it compares pretty favorably..

However. wasn't the 7800 developed and supposed to have been released before the famicom/sms were created? So in a sense it's sort of a half generation before them? I dunno *shrug* :P

Yeah, wasn't it stalled by Jack Tramiel for like 2 years?

[The Unknown Gamer]

I guess you have to been around for a few more years like me to remember this but when the 7800 was to be released back in 84/85. That was when the GREAT GAME CRASH happend. Or ask yourself why the Video Player for the Adam system never came out. I remember how the big toy that year was the Cabbage Patch Kids doll, the toy stores could not stock enough of them. Some times history happends the way most of us don't remember.
It was Sega first then Nintendo, it wasn't until the NES was popular that most stores even stocked the SMS. Which if I remember was almost strickly a mail order item up to then.

The 7800 in my opion beats the NES on some games mainly old arcade Centipede, Dig Dug, Galaga and the like. As much as I don't like to admit this but the 7800 was the less powerful of the 3. Sound execpt for Ballbazer was very crappy and the sound puzzles in Scrapyard Dog are all but impossible to win. The SMS if you wonder was the most powerful of the 3. Ironically the 7800 and the NES used the same processer.

In the 8 bit era of consoles games were a mix bag at best, better on some systems than others. To me you can't beat Double Dragon on the SMS, or even Centipede or MS. Pac-man on the 7800.

[Aswald]

Thanks for the replies!

I've owned an Atari 7800 since 1988, and always suspected that that unbeatable handicap known as "Tramielitis" dragged it down. The games it did well- Robotron: 2084, Dig Dug, Xevious, Tower Toppler, Pole Position 2, and others- indicated this, but it was never used to its fullest potential. Certainly, it could handle large amounts of on-screen motion better than the NES and maybe even the SMS.

The marketer-inspired crash of 1984 did it in at that point, but I heard that the Atari 5200 was released (it was essentially a keyboardless Atari 400 computer) in a hurried effort to compete with the ColecoVision. Atari was worried that, had it not done so, the ColecoVision would have so dominated the market that the Atari 7800 would never have had a chance, especially when you consider the "learning curve."

I suppose the question was largely technical- someone familiar with the actual harware, such as Sean Kelly or Opcode, could tell for certain just what it could've done.

[Gunstarhero]

The 7800 is more or less a Turd. It's better as a run-thru for 2600 games more than anything else. Yeah it does a couple titles better than the NES, but that doesn't make it worth buying one if you ask me. I've had plenty of playtime on the 7800 to make this judgement, but I know I'm on solid footing when I say that its a much better investment to get a 5200, as it has better audio, and even has better ports than the 7800 has, how pathetic is that? The 5200 is a powerhouse next to the 7800, maybe not on paper, but its not a Tramiel era system, and you can see the tender loving care that went into the games, unlike with what we got on the 7800.

The 7800 contains the exact same Audio chip that the 2600 uses, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know why, maybe back then they couldn't put an advanced chip in and still get 2600 games to have audio? Or the other option is of course it was just cheaper.

Robotron definitely stands out on the 7800, that was an excellent title, but it misses some thing the 5200 version has, which is the particle explosions you get when you blow up enemies, plus the Audio is better on the 5200 version. Centipede is nice on 7800, but again, its better on the 5200 because of the Trackball. Unless you think that 2-player simultaneous trumps trackball control, I know some that do.

I had a complete 7800 for quite a few years, but couldn't justify keeping it around anymore so I sold it. Still can't unload all of my games for it, nobody wants em, alot are complete too. But they are so cheap its difficult to get rid of them. Almost a waste of time.

[Kid Ice]

I
The 7800 in my opion beats the NES on some games mainly old arcade Centipede, Dig Dug, Galaga and the like. .

Galaga is better on the 7800? Are you sure about that?

[ubersaurus]

Technically, the 7800 could compete well against the NES and SMS. However, whereas Sega and Nintendo put some good cash behind R&D for these, as well as on-cart RAM and memory mapping, the Tramiels told their programmers to go with the bare minimum of space and RAM possible. As a result, alot of 7800 games just look worse.

But look at games like Ballblazer, Scrapyard Dog, Midnight Mutants, Impossible Mission, and Commando, and you can see that the 7800 was no slouch. Although it's sound was worse, it could handle alot more sprites then either of the other two, due to its different way of handling the display.

Oh yeah. Famicom is 1983 tech, 7800 is 1984, and SMS is 198...6?

5200 robotron BETTER? HOW? The game plays slower, the sprites are giant sized, and you never get the same hectic feel from the 7800 version. Both use 2 controllers though, which still puts the 5200 one better then most, but still, 7800 has that port hands down.

[Raccoon Lad]

SMS(Mark III) is 1985 tech.....and far more powerfull than you could ever dream!!!!

[Atari7800]

My understanding is that while the 7800 is inferior to the NES and especially SMS on many levels (especially sound) it could move around a lot of different objects onscreen particularly well... the benefit of the extra graphics chip that was named "Maria" or something to that effect. I don't think the 7800 could do graphics as well as either the NES or SMS but it had an advantage when it came to throwing a lot of stuff around on the screen all at once without flicker or slowdown. I would have loved to see some good 2-D shooters on the 7800. Galaga just doesn't cut it.

[ApolloBoy]

SMS(Mark III) is 1985 tech.....and far more powerfull than you could ever dream!!!!

But the sound somewhat sucks (unless you have a Mark III with an FM pack).

[ubersaurus]

My understanding is that while the 7800 is inferior to the NES and especially SMS on many levels (especially sound) it could move around a lot of different objects onscreen particularly well... the benefit of the extra graphics chip that was named "Maria" or something to that effect. I don't think the 7800 could do graphics as well as either the NES or SMS but it had an advantage when it came to throwing a lot of stuff around on the screen all at once without flicker or slowdown. I would have loved to see some good 2-D shooters on the 7800. Galaga just doesn't cut it.

Xevious
Planet Smashers
Robotron 2084
Asteroids

Weren't Plutos and Sirius shooters? I can't wait to get a look at those.

[ApolloBoy]

My understanding is that while the 7800 is inferior to the NES and especially SMS on many levels (especially sound) it could move around a lot of different objects onscreen particularly well... the benefit of the extra graphics chip that was named "Maria" or something to that effect. I don't think the 7800 could do graphics as well as either the NES or SMS but it had an advantage when it came to throwing a lot of stuff around on the screen all at once without flicker or slowdown. I would have loved to see some good 2-D shooters on the 7800. Galaga just doesn't cut it.

Dude, have you ever played Ballblazer?

[Gunstarhero]

ubursaurus wrote:

5200 robotron BETTER? HOW? The game plays slower, the sprites are giant sized, and you never get the same hectic feel from the 7800 version. Both use 2 controllers though, which still puts the 5200 one better then most, but still, 7800 has that port hands down.

Re-read my post, I didn't say the 5200 is better overall, I just said the 7800 is missing stuff that the 5200 version has. The Audio is better on the 5200, you can't deny that, plus the 5200 has the controller coupler. It's not like the 5200 version can't throw alot of enemies at you either, all in all I'd still take the 5200 version as it has the features I want. The 7800 version certainly doesn't show a quantum leap of technology above the 5200, which it should have.

[Atari7800]

duh... how could I forget Xevious?

I'd love to see something really fast and fully of sprites, like a Raiden, Gradius, or R-Type. Nothing against Robotron... it's a great game, but it's only one screen.

[ManekiNeko]

Not very. Although I will admit that I'd rather play Commando on the 7800 than on the NES.
Anyway, I think the system's graphics are muddy and the hardware just isn't that impressive. The games also have less depth than those on the NES, except for Midnight Mutants, which tried to duplicate the same success enjoyed by complex action/adventure titles on the Nintendo Entertainment System.

JR

[Gamemaster_ca_2003]

If you want to compare graphics on systems

Ok

Commando Better on the 7800 over the NES

Galaga better on the NES over the 7800

Dig Dug better on the NES over the 7800

Xevious NES and 7800 are the same but there nothing compared to the TG16/PCE version

Donkey Kong Same on the NES and 7800

Donkey Kong Jr. Same as DK

Double Dragon NES over 7800 big time

Joust 7800 over NES

MS. Pac Man NES Slightly over 7800

Klax Same as MS. Pac Man

Rampage same as ms Pac Man and Klax

That is all

(rember i am refuring to the graphics not the actual game.

[Zaxxon]

With the 7800's muddy graphics, fuzzy video output, weak sound, bad controllers, it seems more like a step backwards from the 5200. Other than Midnight Mutants, no games really seemed impressive. NES, SMS, even CV stomps the 7800.

[omnedon]

7800 works great with any Atari compat stick, like the genesis Arcade Power stick. Crappy controllers? Well, the Pain Line's Do suck, but it's hardly an issue with that kind of compatible.

[Aswald]

ubursaurus wrote:

5200 robotron BETTER? HOW? The game plays slower, the sprites are giant sized, and you never get the same hectic feel from the 7800 version. Both use 2 controllers though, which still puts the 5200 one better then most, but still, 7800 has that port hands down.

Re-read my post, I didn't say the 5200 is better overall, I just said the 7800 is missing stuff that the 5200 version has. The Audio is better on the 5200, you can't deny that, plus the 5200 has the controller coupler. It's not like the 5200 version can't throw alot of enemies at you either, all in all I'd still take the 5200 version as it has the features I want. The 7800 version certainly doesn't show a quantum leap of technology above the 5200, which it should have.

And that was a problem with both the 5200 and 7800: neither represented a huge leap from the previous system. The ColecoVision didn't have this problem, there wasn't anything to compare it to from before (the Telstar Arcade hardly counts).

[oesiii]

I agree with Gunstar, there's something just missing from the 7800. I started gaming on the 7800 before the 5200 and I thought it was cool at the time but I also prefer Robotron, Centipede, and Ballblazer on the 5200. The gameplay seems smoother and more arcade-like. I usually go by how games feel and don't really care about any tech details so all this is IMHO.

But I'll give the 7800 credit for two cool system exclusives which I enjoy playing, Midnight Mutants and Ninja Golf. Just this weekend I had a friend over looking at my boxed games and he spotted the Ninja Golf game and he said 'WTF?' LOL

[Aswald]

I get the same feeling about the 7800 when I play the ColecoVision.

It's the variety, or lack of it. Both the Atari 5200 and ColecoVision had a much wider variety of games than the 7800. What's more, some of the games on the 7800 weren't all that much better than on the 5200; Ms. Pac-Man was really no better on the 7800, at least not enough so as to justify "moving up" to the 7800. And Opcode's ColecoVision version of that game looks to outdo it.

[bargora]

The 7800 may not be a powerhouse, comparatively speaking, but it's got Food Fight, and that's good enough for me.

[The Unknown Gamer]

You're all missing one game. A game which is unequaled on any system until a similiar game came out on the PC and that was Flight Sim by Microsoft.

The game I am talking about is F-18 Hornet flight sim.
You are flying in a pseudo 3-D world you can land or take off or even turn around just about anywhere you want. You can even fly through the gate of a mansion you have to bomb at full speed or even through a covered bridge. I can not even think of any console game that comes close to this on any other system.

Centipede is better on the 7800 and heres why, co-op and Vs. mode. They aren't found on any other version of the game period.[/b]

[rxd]

ubursaurus wrote:

5200 robotron BETTER? HOW? The game plays slower, the sprites are giant sized, and you never get the same hectic feel from the 7800 version. Both use 2 controllers though, which still puts the 5200 one better then most, but still, 7800 has that port hands down.

Re-read my post, I didn't say the 5200 is better overall, I just said the 7800 is missing stuff that the 5200 version has. The Audio is better on the 5200, you can't deny that, plus the 5200 has the controller coupler. It's not like the 5200 version can't throw alot of enemies at you either, all in all I'd still take the 5200 version as it has the features I want. The 7800 version certainly doesn't show a quantum leap of technology above the 5200, which it should have.

Personally, I also prefer the 5200 version. To each his own I guess....

[Zaxxon]

7800 works great with any Atari compat stick, like the genesis Arcade Power stick. Crappy controllers? Well, the Pain Line's Do suck, but it's hardly an issue with that kind of compatible.

Yeah, I know that and have used a Genny stick with it but that only works on games that used one button. The only game worth getting the 7800 out to play IMO is Midnight Mutants and that requires both L & R buttons. I'm forced to use the Pain-line sticks unless I go through the trouble of modding a Genny controller just to play those 2 button games.

[Dr. Morbis]

Why don't you just use a sms controller for the 2-button games?

[Zaxxon]

I don't collect for the SMS so I sold all of that stuff. I didn't keep a SMS pad. Those pads were similar to the NES pads, awful. Not really a better option than the 7800's pro-line sticks.

[Duncan]

I don't collect for the SMS so I sold all of that stuff. I didn't keep a SMS pad. Those pads were similar to the NES pads, awful. Not really a better option than the 7800's pro-line sticks.

What about an SMS Arcade Stick? :) Still just two buttons, but slightly more comfortable. Odd left-handed design, though.

And I've never had a problem with either the SMS or the NES pads, comfort-wise... :hmm:

Duncan :D

[oesiii]

The Genny and SMS sticks and pads are a good option but they only work with 7800 games that use one button. They are incompatible with 2-button games because they are wired differently. There is a rewiring mod to make them work on the 7800 with both buttons but I've never tried it.

Here's a page to let you know which games require 2 buttons and which are fine with one:

http://www.atari7800.org/7800list.htm

[The Unknown Gamer]

I saw a wiring diagram once on how to convert a SMS or Genesis joypad to work with a 7800. Let me tell you I wouldn't do it, it's too tricky to do.

[tom]

Maria,
the graphics chip especially desigend for the 7800, can handle any amount of sprites and move them in any direction on the screen without any slowdown or flicker, some lady, heh!!!

[ApolloBoy]

7800 works great with any Atari compat stick, like the genesis Arcade Power stick. Crappy controllers? Well, the Pain Line's Do suck, but it's hardly an issue with that kind of compatible.

Yeah, I know that and have used a Genny stick with it but that only works on games that used one button. The only game worth getting the 7800 out to play IMO is Midnight Mutants and that requires both L & R buttons. I'm forced to use the Pain-line sticks unless I go through the trouble of modding a Genny controller just to play those 2 button games.

Dude, get some Atari joypads! You'll be glad you did!

[ApolloBoy]

7800 works great with any Atari compat stick, like the genesis Arcade Power stick. Crappy controllers? Well, the Pain Line's Do suck, but it's hardly an issue with that kind of compatible.

Yeah, I know that and have used a Genny stick with it but that only works on games that used one button. The only game worth getting the 7800 out to play IMO is Midnight Mutants and that requires both L & R buttons. I'm forced to use the Pain-line sticks unless I go through the trouble of modding a Genny controller just to play those 2 button games.

Dude, get some Atari joypads! You'll be glad you did!

[Moon Patrol]

I think the Atari 7800 had an advantage with the arcadish games like Xevious and Ms. Pacman. Food Fight was also a plus over the NES, but really, the 7800 couldn't and didn't stand up to the NES. Ninja Golf is great, but there's only so much you can do with it after a while. Frankly, the atari 7800 graphics looked like shit over the NES graphics. The NES had a much better controller, and soon boasted a large library after its release.

However, the Atari 7800 and the NES were two of my first game consoles, and I won't abandon either of them, well I know I won't abandon the 7800.

[retroman]

i have all of the old 8 bitters and i must say that it falls behind the master system and nes...now i am a atari fan...so i aint haitn...but come on for real...good old arcade trans though.

[Lord Helmet]

Old school arcade games are the strength of the 7800. The 7800 ports of Centipede and Ms. Pac Man are the best available on any system.

[sharp]

Old school arcade games are the strength of the 7800. The 7800 ports of Centipede and Ms. Pac Man are the best available on any system.

That's the reason I just bought one, combined with the reason that I also don't have 2600. Just for a few retro games.

[bargora]

Old school arcade games are the strength of the 7800. The 7800 ports of Centipede and Ms. Pac Man are the best available on any system.
Do you prefer the 7800 ports to the emulated versions available on the PS1 and later systems?

[FurinkanianFrood]

The advantages of the NES over the 7800 were:

1. Sound
2. All the great tricks used to squeeze every last bit of capability out of the NES (special mappers and such).

If the 7800 had gotten some love from developers it would have been quite nice graphically.

As far as 1 button games there is no controller issue, and for the others, like the guy above said, ya just gotta find the joypads.

I do use it largely as a 2600. My VCS bit the dust almost 20 years ago, and I was too young to try to fix what was probably something extremely minor.



Do you prefer the 7800 ports to the emulated versions available on the PS1 and later systems?


It depends. I don't like playing the games on most modern controllers, especially the painful PS controllers (not that the 7800 controllers don't give me cramps also......)

I really don't play anything on PS1 though, buyt that's neither here nor there in this discussiuon.

As far as Robotron goes I would just as soon play that on the Midway collection on GC.

Centipede I play on 7800 though, along with some of the exclusives.

It depends on whether one actually wants an extra VCS and how much you care about some of the ports/exclusives.

I could have been a truly great system if it had gotten decvent support.

As it is it's far from a waste though.

Ms Pacman. I own a lot of versions of Ms Pacman, and the 7800 version is one of the good ones (along with a gerbillion others).

I d

[Rogmeister]

I really liked the arcade ports it had...I don't know if I played enough of the original games for it but I wasn't that crazy about the ones I did get. It's one of the few systems I've owned...that I don't anymore. I don't really miss it since the arcade games (which is the reason I liked it) are all available on systems I do still own.

[VG_Maniac]

The good arcade ports were the only reason I bought the 7800....even though there are better versions of those games out there.

[7th lutz]

The 7800 was 2nd game system over. It is great for 2600 games and has some good 7800 games. I do feel the nes and the sms are better then the 7800 in varity of games.

The 7800 does has have hacks of games, homebrew games being worked on and has Curtle Cart 2. Curtle Cart 2 is is something that you can save roms of 2600 and 7800 games. Those roms can be hacks or homebrew games like Frogger.

The 7800 had the problem of being under Jack Tramiel. He spent more money on advertising for the 2600 then the 7800. I never saw an ad on tv for the 7800 but I did for the 2600. He made a major screw up by releasing the atari xegs. Jack thought the xegs was better then the nes and was released a year after the 7800 was. He also didn't spend money on making cartridges bigger. There was not a 128k game until 1988. By then the nes and the sms were into 256k games.