Ideas for new ColecoVision expansion....

[opcode]

Ok, I don't feel completely confortable in discussing this topic so early on, but my friend ManekiNeko has suggested me to do it now, so maybe it is in fact a good idea...
I have been thinking about an ColecoVision expansion module for a while, in fact a long while. My motivations are:

- It's the next item in my "things to do before dying" list.
- I have always dreamed Coleco could have released it.
- It could help me developing more faithful ports.

Of course I am already expecting many CV fans will argue this module isn't necessary, not a good idea at all and such. However my "things to do before dying" list was written when I was a kid, and it can't be changed anymore, so I am not allowed to give up before trying hard... :)

Right now I have a several ideas, but basically the module core will be comprised of an extra Z-80 (running at 7.14MHZ) and lots of extra RAM memory. I don't want to go too technical right now, so suffice to say it will work in a shared processing scheme. There will be 8KB of battery backed SRAM for progress saving too. So far no big deal from a technological point of view. The main reason for the extra Z80 is because many arcade games (Galaga, for example) use multiprocessing, so I would also need it in order to keep gameplay faithful.

Well, the controversial part is I want to do a few audio/video updates too. I won't tell about those here, they will be implemented using FPGA if you want to know, but my question would be what do CV fans think about this module?
I mean, please vote in the pool and add any comments you find appropriated...

[Aswald]

The original Supergame Module for the ColecoVision was reported to have done nothing more than to have allowed games of 128-256K memory (depending on which report you believed).

It would not have increased processor speed, colors, resolution, sprite-handling capacity, sound capabilities, or anything else, for that matter.

However, this was more than enough. More memory would mean more screens, longer levels, more monsters and places in an RPG, intermissions, intros, etc. If you check out the MSX games connection posted here some days ago, or at Raccoon Lad's website, you'll see what this can do (note: some games have other enhancements).

If the price was reasonable, and it had some really spectacular games, such as extensive RPGs and R-Type such games, I'd be interested. Very much so. How much memory would it allow for?

Looking forward to Sky Jaguar!

[Raccoon Lad]

It'd definiteley have to be affordable: $30 or so, and have at LEAST half a dozen guaranteed games available for it before I see anyone being interested.

[Aswald]

It'd definiteley have to be affordable: $30 or so, and have at LEAST half a dozen guaranteed games available for it before I see anyone being interested.

Exactly. Even though it could cost more than $30.00 (look at all of the features it might have!). But the games would have to be really spectacular, I guess.


Right now Opcode is transferring a version of Sky Jaguar to the ColecoVision. This is a game with more than the usual 32K memory.

What is the "practical" limit a cartridge can have? You mentioned that some games, such as Salamander, have a different sort of sounchip; is a module needed to deal with that problem?

[opcode]

So do you think $30 is a good price point? Umm... Good, good, I am taking note...

About memory map, it would be like this:

Z80 (inside the expansion module)
0000-1FFF = BIOS ROM (8kb)
2000-DFFF = Main RAM (48kb)
E000-FFFF = Shared RAM (8kb)
Z80 (inside the CV)
0000-1FFF = BIOS ROM (8kb)
2000-3FFF = SRAM (8kb)
4000-5FFF = Shared RAM (8kb)
6000-7FFF = Expanded RAM (8kb)
8000-FFFF = Cart (32kb)

Please remember the Z80 is limited to 64KB address space unless a bankswithing scheme is used, which I want to avoid. Shared RAM means this RAM will be used for both Z80s.

The module would work in 3 different modes:

- Standard CV mode: the fast Z80 will halt, SRAM and shared RAM are ignored, just 1KB of expanded RAM is used.
- Extended CV mode: the fast Z80 will halt, SRAM can be used, expanded RAM is used, new sound features are used (more later). That is: same graphics, same processing power, better sound and more memory. MSX ports would use this mode.
- Expanded CV mode: all functions are enabled, including new graphics. Arcade ports will use this mode.

[opcode]

It'd definiteley have to be affordable: $30 or so, and have at LEAST half a dozen guaranteed games available for it before I see anyone being interested.

Exactly. Even though it could cost more than $30.00 (look at all of the features it might have!). But the games would have to be really spectacular, I guess.


Right now Opcode is transferring a version of Sky Jaguar to the ColecoVision. This is a game with more than the usual 32K memory.

What is the "practical" limit a cartridge can have? You mentioned that some games, such as Salamander, have a different sort of sounchip; is a module needed to deal with that problem?

About the number of release titles, I think my ability to produce a fair amount of them within a restricted timeframe will be tested next March... ;)

Now, how do you define being "really spectacular"?

CV cartridges can have up to 32KB before requiring bank-switching.

Salamander uses a special sound chip called SCC. This is a kind of primitive wavetable sound generator, very similar to Namco sound chips used with Galaga, Dig-Dug and Pole-Position, but very effective, nicely "retro" sounding. SCC-like specs will be the core of my planned sound enhancements...

[chadtower]

I'm definitely interested, but there are too few details to vote accurately in that poll. In terms of price, price would of course be directly linked to features the module provides. The more it adds to the system, the more I'd pay. If this was the type of thing that allowed better arcade ports, that would be big. Ditto for longer RPGs...

[Aswald]

Well, you've already done incredible things with ColecoVision programming. We've seen the Space Invaders Collection, and the screens for Pac-Man. You've managed to put Sky Jaguar onto a ColecoVision cartridge (64K?); no module needed.

Given all of that, anything on a module would HAVE to be spectacular; beyond the NES.

[opcode]

Well, you've already done incredible things with ColecoVision programming. We've seen the Space Invaders Collection, and the screens for Pac-Man. You've managed to put Sky Jaguar onto a ColecoVision cartridge (64K?); no module needed.

Given all of that, anything on a module would HAVE to be spectacular; beyond the NES.

It isn't possible to change the allowed amount of ROM in a CV cartridge through an module conected to the expansion port, unless you have a new cartridge port in the module. Bankswitching will be implemented even if there isn't an expansion module. But the module is important for many other reasons....

Well, my planned specs for graphics and sound are:

New sound features:
- 16 channels of wave table lite sound. Wave table lite uses 32 bytes wave
samples, much like Namco sound chip or Konami SCC. Frequency range is the
same as General Instruments PSG (12 bit frequency registers). Independent
volume for all channels (4 bits).
- 4 noise channels (5 bits).
- 4 envelope generators.
- Under control of 3.58MHz Z80.

New graphic features:
- 256x224 visible screen resolution. 512x256 virtual screen.
- 128Kb of video RAM.
- 2 independent moving background planes. Maximum of 1024 addressable 8x8
chars for each plane. Planes can be set to use 1,2,3 or 4 bitplanes,
allowing 2,4,8 or 16 colors per char. 16 color palettes of 15 colors just
for planes. Each character can address a different color palette, allowing
240 simultaneous colors on screen. Flip bits on both coordinates.
- 32K colors for palettes.
- Hardware scrolling.
- 128 16x16 sprites on screen, selectable from 256 sprite patterns. 8 color
palettes of 15 colors. Flip bits on both coordinates. Each sprite can be
placed behind any plane. 1,2,3 or bitplanes.
- Interrupts can be generated for any scanline.
- Under control of 7.16MHz Z80.

Now would it be too much? I mean, what is your perception of this? These are preliminary specs, of course... Though I have the sound engine core already created in VHDL...

[ventrra]

It isn't possible to change the allowed amount of ROM in a CV cartridge through an module conected to the expansion port, unless you have a new cartridge port in the module. Bankswitching will be implemented even if there isn't an expansion module. But the module is important for many other reasons....

Well, my planned specs for graphics and sound are:

New sound features:
- 16 channels of wave table lite sound. Wave table lite uses 32 bytes wave
samples, much like Namco sound chip or Konami SCC. Frequency range is the
same as General Instruments PSG (12 bit frequency registers). Independent
volume for all channels (4 bits).
- 4 noise channels (5 bits).
- 4 envelope generators.
- Under control of 3.58MHz Z80.

New graphic features:
- 256x224 visible screen resolution. 512x256 virtual screen.
- 128Kb of video RAM.
- 2 independent moving background planes. Maximum of 1024 addressable 8x8
chars for each plane. Planes can be set to use 1,2,3 or 4 bitplanes,
allowing 2,4,8 or 16 colors per char. 16 color palettes of 15 colors just
for planes. Each character can address a different color palette, allowing
240 simultaneous colors on screen. Flip bits on both coordinates.
- 32K colors for palettes.
- Hardware scrolling.
- 128 16x16 sprites on screen, selectable from 256 sprite patterns. 8 color
palettes of 15 colors. Flip bits on both coordinates. Each sprite can be
placed behind any plane. 1,2,3 or bitplanes.
- Interrupts can be generated for any scanline.
- Under control of 7.16MHz Z80.

Now would it be too much? I mean, what is your perception of this? These are preliminary specs, of course... Though I have the sound engine core already created in VHDL...
How close would all of this bring it to MSX specs? (A way to add a keyboard would just about make it perfect if it close (this is not a serious comment, so don't worry :D )). That would be something along the level of my interests in it since it is rather expensive to get MSX computers in the US. Setttling for the next best thing (making the Colecovision into a pseudo-MSX) would be something of an improvement. :) ;)

[Raccoon Lad]

DAMN! That's ALOT of RAM!!!

And with the new specs, it's more like a Genesis or MSX-2 than a Colecovision @_@

[Jorpho]

How about a pack-in game?

I suppose it might be nice if it also functioned as an Expansion Module 1 or allowed the playing of SMS/SG-1000 games, but that's probably too much to hope for. Maybe ports for controllers from different systems?

[The Unknown Gamer]

I never been too much a colecovision fan. But if you can deliver and its not too expensive I might even buy one. But that also depends on the games...never forget about the games.

Thats not the oddest thing I ever heard of. Get aload of the Atari computer fans. Back in 1990 I was sent the catalog in it was no joke an adapter more or less an add-on for an Atari computer that would let you surf the net. I still got it somewhere.

[opcode]

How close would all of this bring it to MSX specs? (A way to add a keyboard would just about make it perfect if it close (this is not a serious comment, so don't worry :D )). That would be something along the level of my interests in it since it is rather expensive to get MSX computers in the US. Setttling for the next best thing (making the Colecovision into a pseudo-MSX) would be something of an improvement. :) ;)

That's an interesting question. The specs have a lot in common with the unreleased MSX3 VDP, later released as Yamaha V9990. But to be a MSX you would still need bitmapped linear modes, which I am not including here. That will be a module for games afterall, not a generic computer VDP. Nevertheless the tile graphic capabilities listed here are far supperior from those found on MSX2 computers.
However port of MSX2 games, mainly the famous Metal Gear series (the only version really created by Hideo Kojima himself), would still be possible. Even enhanced!
Now, I have a better idea to make this expansion become the utimate hobbist creative machine: just imagine if we have a set of tools running under Windows, including graphic and sound editing tools, coupled with a compiled "GAME BASIC" language, capable of several powerfull macro commands to create games. For example, music macro, title and selection screen macros, graphic commands capable of loading graphic data from some storage media and placing it into VRAM, beside interrupt handles capable of keep game in sync, all graphic objects exposing setable properties, etc.
Just create everything using your PC, compile code, transfer to storage media, take it to your CV and run the game. 8-)

[opcode]

How about a pack-in game?

I like the idea of a pack-in game. It bonds well with retro systems. :)
I think I would be able to release the module along 5 or 6 games, a mix of MSX ports and arcade ports. Some exclusives would be nice. Penguin Adventure, the follow up for Antarctic Adventure would be a good bet, along Knightmare, maybe Goonies. Elevator Action never gots a good port, and I am not sure if the Famicom version was released in the US. Maybe perfect ports of Moon Patrol or Galaga.
But first we need to generate interest in the CV again. If everything goes right, next March will serve as a test for my capacity of delivering quality software in reasonable number (I am not meaning copies). I am confident CV fans will be surprised... :D

[ubersaurus]

famicom EA was released in the states ;)

Could this expansion module have built in A/V wires without upping the cost too much? Probably not. But it'd be cool to not have to mod the console to get A/V output.

[Griking]

It'd definiteley have to be affordable: $30 or so, and have at LEAST half a dozen guaranteed games available for it before I see anyone being interested.


Why not release the expansion module with the games and sell it as a package for like $100. I'd definately spend $100 knowing that there were already at least a few games available for it.

[wberdan]

i agree that 100$ is not unreasonable at all- considering this seems like a great deal of work. a pack-in game is a great idea...
if the hardware and games look good and function well, i imagine a lot of collectors would be flexible on the price

willie

[opcode]

i agree that 100$ is not unreasonable at all- considering this seems like a great deal of work. a pack-in game is a great idea...
if the hardware and games look good and function well, i imagine a lot of collectors would be flexible on the price

willie

I was thinking about $60 or so. But lets wait and see. There are many possibilities. For example, I have found a complete Z80 core using VHDL and it need "just" 8K elements in a FPGA. While FPGA are usually more expensive than standard ICs, including the Z80 inside the FPGA would help to reduce the overall expansion board complexity and cost, which includes PCB manufacturing for example. To be honest I have a big concern about casing for this thing. Since I am aiming for around 100 units, I would surely loose money if a order a mold for a plastic case, so I am going to need finding a way to balance this loss with something else...

[Aswald]

The specs of that module are incredible. Clearly, you intend to enable the ColecoVision to play games far beyond its normal limitations.

Games such as Matt Patrol, Spy Hunter, and numerous others show what a "normal" ColecoVision can do. Just producing games with 128K would be a remarkable improvement, especially in regards to RPGs.

Sky Jaguar does not require a module. You're putting it on cartridge.

What do you intend to do with those super-specs? What sort of games will you program for it? Any examples in mind?

[ventrra]

Games such as Matt Patrol, Spy Hunter, and numerous others show what a "normal" ColecoVision can do. Just producing games with 128K would be a remarkable improvement, especially in regards to RPGs.
Just imagine porting Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star or whatever to the Colecovision. :D :-P


Now, I have a better idea to make this expansion become the utimate hobbist creative machine: just imagine if we have a set of tools running under Windows, including graphic and sound editing tools, coupled with a compiled "GAME BASIC" language, capable of several powerfull macro commands to create games. For example, music macro, title and selection screen macros, graphic commands capable of loading graphic data from some storage media and placing it into VRAM, beside interrupt handles capable of keep game in sync, all graphic objects exposing setable properties, etc.
Just create everything using your PC, compile code, transfer to storage media, take it to your CV and run the game.
That's a nice idea. X_x

[slapdash]

One thing you might want to consider is the ability to load ROM images into the device. This would help pirates (arr!) and developers, and would help justify higher costs of the device (assuming it doesn't ADD too much cost). Look at the Cuttle Cart for reference.

[opcode]

One thing you might want to consider is the ability to load ROM images into the device. This would help pirates (arr!) and developers, and would help justify higher costs of the device (assuming it doesn't ADD too much cost). Look at the Cuttle Cart for reference.

That's an interesting idea. There is a MSX2 FPGA board which has a nice MMC (multi media card). I have the PCB layout here, so it would be a nice solution if the interface isn't expensive and I can include access routines in the BIOS.... Good, good... Maybe I would use it instead the 8KB SRAM...

[Aswald]

It looks incredible as is: what sort of games do you have in mind for it?

Will you be able to play normal ColecoVision games while it's plugged in, or do you have to plug it in/unplug it, as with the 2600 module?

[o2william]

One thing you might want to consider is the ability to load ROM images into the device.

I second this absolutely. With this capability you'll be able to sell the device even without any new software.

Other good ideas already mentioned would be the ability to plug in alternate joysticks (Jaguar pads maybe) or to include A/V out jacks directly on the expansion module. Of course, those may be less feasible.

If you're thinking of producing RPG's for this, it would be good to give it some sort of data save capability as well.

[ghsqb]

I would be very interested in this item.
You've proven enough, that I give you a vote of confidence to go ahead, and I know I'll be pleased.

I really like the ROM idea, and agree that with that, they should sell like hotcakes.

Either way, put me down for one.

[ManekiNeko]

Here's a wacky (and not very likely) idea... would there be any way to use sequences of pictures which could be controlled to some degree by the joystick? If so, a translation of everyone's favorite semi-interactive video game Dragon's Lair could be possible. That was supposed to be released for the ColecoVision in some form, but that never came to be (there was an ADAM version of Dragon's Lair but it sucks to hell).
Speaking of the ADAM, would it be possible to port those games to the expansion pack as well?

JR

[opcode]

Hi!

I have thought a little more about the expansion, and I am now writing the final specs. Personally I don't like FM syntesis, as I find it difficult to program and extract good FX sounds from. Waveform playback seems the best choice to me so far (Namco used it on several 80's arcades, Konami used it on its MSX SCC sound chip, NEC used it on PCE, etc)
Specs would be like the following:

- 16 sound channels, stereo (32 samples per wave, 8 bits)
- Independent volume and pan control per channel
- 16 tone generators (12 bits)
- 4 noise generators (5 bits)
- 4 envelope generators (16 bits) and envelope shape registers (4 bits)
- Mixer

I will post a doc showing the internal registers here shortly.

Eduardo

[Ed Oscuro]

This is the first time I've seen this topic (I voted expanded capabilities...)

Anyhow, those sound specs look really good. Much better sound than the NES (stereo too!), but how about throwing a Yamaha MIDI chip on there (if that's possible, of course) to cover the Genesis side of things?

'sides that, wouldn't load-from-ROM be something you could do from a plugin module that goes in place of a regular cartridge? You could keep all sorts of games on a floppy disk, or maybe one really big one (with lots of save slots ;)

'sides that, have you considered any enhancements to the video system?

This is starting to sound like a whole new system and not just a console anymore :)

[Zaxxon]

I know there's no talking you out of this, but this sounds like a horrible idea to me and I'm a huge CV fan. You're calling this the ultimate hobbiest system but then say you're planning on making only about 100 available WORLDWIDE. I'm interested in making a CV game but have no interest in making a game that will only find an audience of 100 people maximum, no matter how nice the systems specs or dev tools are. I'd much, much rather see you focus your efforts on making more high quality CV games, not games for some extremely limited 32X-like add-on. What's interesting to me about making new CV games is seeing how far the 1982 CV technology can be pushed. With this add-on it wouldn't even be a CV game in my mind. I might as well be making a SNES game. All I can see this doing is sapping away all you're time, energy and money and leaving you burned out on the CV and not wanting to make any more CV games. If you can do it all great, but it sounds like you're taking on too many major projects. If I wanted something like you've described I would buy the X-gamestation instead as it'll have a larger user base.
http://www.xgamestation.com/index.php

[opcode]

I know there's no talking you out of this, but this sounds like a horrible idea to me and I'm a huge CV fan. You're calling this the ultimate hobbiest system but then say you're planning on making only about 100 available WORLDWIDE.

I would produce as much units as I am able to sell, but I don't think it would sell far beyond 100 units since the module isn't a standalone hardware.


I'm interested in making a CV game but have no interest in making a game that will only find an audience of 100 people maximum, no matter how nice the systems specs or dev tools are. I'd much, much rather see you focus your efforts on making more high quality CV games, not games for some extremely limited 32X-like add-on.

It seems no CV game would be able to sell more than 200 carts nowaday. So if I am able to sell 100 expansion modules, it would be really good since it would mean almost every active CV user will own a unit.
Futhermore if you want to do games for an audience greater than 100 people, the CV is possibly not the right machine for you.
The expansion module won't be more than it: a programable device for the CV user.


Eduardo Mello

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm with Opcode. With something like this, it's really rather hard to quantify why you're doing something as niche as this project. I say go for it; I'll throw some money into it if that'd help :)

One thing though: It's hobbyist, not hobbiest. "-est" is only used to denote something being "the most," and you cannot be "the most hobby." -- This public service message brought to you by Ed Oscuro.

[Zaxxon]

I think a new CV game could sell more than 200 copies. I'm sure there are still several thousand working CV's out there that are being used. New CV games only sell for around $20 so it isn't like it's so expensive that only hardcore collectors would be interested. If I didn't visit Digital Press or Atari Age I would have no idea that you were releasing a new CV game. If people don't even know new CV games exist, they can't buy them and I suspect that is why new CV games haven't sold very many. Plus many programmers are only willing to produce 30-100 copies max. like Kevin Horton etc.. There are several CV games that I would've bought but they are impossible to get unless you were at CGE and bought one of the 50 made before they sold out or want to get into a bidding war over one on Ebay. I would've liked to buy a Steamroller or a Ms. Space Fury cart but I missed out on the initial batch and wasn't at CGE and they refuse to make any more available for sale. THAT is why CV games don't sell very many. I was willing to buy it at it's original price but I'm not eager to pay $80-$100+ for it on Ebay. Other than word of mouth through the internet, John Donzilla never really promoted his new games that hard. They were able to sell many times that number for the late release homebrew/Telegames releases for the Atari Jaguar and there were only a fraction of Jaguar consoles sold compared to the millions of CV consoles sold. Not only that, the Jaguar games sold for $60-$80 each and they still sold way more. They succesfully got the word out to their target market.

A big part of the appeal of developing for the CV was that it was considered one of the easier/easiest to develop for. I wouldn't want to use an add-on that would only make things more complicated and difficult for the hobbyists this is supposedly aimed at. I think it's more important that beginner programmers are at least able to start and complete a finished game rather than aim for something that has really impressive specs with multiprocessors/FM sound that they won't be able to grasp.

If I really wanted to develop for a system like you've described ( larger color pallette, higher resolution, FM sound, better horizontal scrolling, more memory), I would just develop a game for the SMS. There's probably millions of those worldwide, many still in use and a large collector base who are interested in new games. This CV add-on would've been a great idea, 20 years ago, before the SMS came out.

[opcode]

This is the first time I've seen this topic (I voted expanded capabilities...)

Anyhow, those sound specs look really good. Much better sound than the NES (stereo too!), but how about throwing a Yamaha MIDI chip on there (if that's possible, of course) to cover the Genesis side of things?

Well, I wanted to keep the new module as similar to the CV original hardware as possible. So the new sound is basically a powered up version of the Texas SN76489. The main difference is the capability of wavesamples. From the practical point-of-view, I am using this engine because there are VDHL source codes for the Konami SCC chip already available, which is very similar in design.
Adding FM would add complexity and maybe increase the final price. I really like FM and have heard a lot of impressive music using OPL2, but here is an example of cost/benefit compromise... :)
However maybe I would add some FM features with this new chip. I will discuss it here when the design is a little more complete...


'sides that, wouldn't load-from-ROM be something you could do from a plugin module that goes in place of a regular cartridge? You could keep all sorts of games on a floppy disk, or maybe one really big one (with lots of save slots ;)

I was thinking about mapping a MMD card in the SRAM memory slot and using it as a virtual drive. This way one would ever download programs easily.


'sides that, have you considered any enhancements to the video system?

Yep, my target specs are similar to arcades platforms from around 1985, like Commando. I posted it early in this thread.

Eduardo Mello

[opcode]

A big part of the appeal of developing for the CV was that it was considered one of the easier/easiest to develop for. I wouldn't want to use an add-on that would only make things more complicated and difficult for the hobbyists this is supposedly aimed at. I think it's more important that beginner programmers are at least able to start and complete a finished game rather than aim for something that has really impressive specs with multiprocessors/FM sound that they won't be able to grasp.

A more powerful machine doesn't mean it will be more complicated to develop. Otherwise the 2600 would be the easiest machine ever. There are several limitations with the CV which does it very difficult to beginners. For instance, access time restrictions with the original VDP are a real nightmare, as are the interrupt handling idiosyncrasies.


If I really wanted to develop for a system like you've described ( larger color pallette, higher resolution, FM sound, better horizontal scrolling, more memory), I would just develop a game for the SMS. There's probably millions of those worldwide, many still in use and a large collector base who are interested in new games. This CV add-on would've been a great idea, 20 years ago, before the SMS came out.

I thought you were a big CV fan... :P
Again, if you want to develop for millions I would suggest you the GBA... LOL

Eduardo Mello

[Zaxxon]

I thought you were a big CV fan... :p
Again, if you want to develop for millions I would suggest you the GBA...

Eduardo Mello

I am a big CV fan. To me, developing for this add-on wouldn't really be like making a CV game since it wouldn't really be running completely on the CV hardware. It would be more like making an ADAM game. It'll run on your CV, as long as you buy the plug-in ADAM expansion module. I've thought about developing a game for GBA but I don't really play or have any affection for any handheld systems. No one ever seems to get very excited about handheld video games. I thought that Nintendo has a way of locking out unlicensed game carts so how could I produce carts to sell that weren't on a Flash ROM cart?

[opcode]

After checking the XGS Basic I just can say I am disapointed.
The thing looks very, very early in development. But it gave
me a good idea to promote the expansion module (I need a good
name, any idea?): develop a programming language before
releasing the machine. :roll:
I can see several problems with the XGS:
1) The video isn't very well defined. In fact I wasn't able
to find any precise specs. Judging from its BASIC, it seems
like the machine will use a kind of frame buffer video, which I find
a bad idea for a game machine. Pattern based video is a must
here.
2) No mention to sprites. Moving objects on screen will be a
real pain.
3) No mention to hardware scroll. You will need to redraw the
whole screen every time.
4) No music macros.
5) No interrupts handling.
6) No direct access to video or sound hardware.
7) No collision detection in BASIC.
8) No major macros in BASIC, like opening screen macros,
music macros, score area macros, playerfield macros, etc.

IMHO, even my 20 years old MSX has a better BASIC (it has
many of the capabilities I listed above). Again, I am sure it
will improve a lot with time, though I don't like some
hardware decisions they have taken so far.
Ok, so how about a group to discuss a language for the new
module. I don't think it needs to be BASIC, maybe we could
use Pascal instead. Of course BASIC would be a first option
since it was the official language in the early 80s. :)
Also, I don't know if here would be the best place to discuss
it.
Thoughts, suggestions?

Eduardo Mello

[christianscott27]

after reading the whole thread i think i have reached the same basic conclusion as zaxxon, which is to say why go 32xing a CV? i would accept "becaue i CAN!" as an answer, thats what being a hobbyist is all about, you do what you want to have fun and learn new skills. my 2 cents is that it seems kind of pointless to attempt to bring a CV up to NES specs when we're already many generations past the NES. why port things like dragons lair or final fantasy when you can already play them without difficulty on other platforms?

my colecovision hardware wish: a solidly built arcade stick!

[Zaxxon]

Opcode,
Did you ever figure out if RAM and a sound chip could be added to a CV cart? I would think there must be a way as they've done this on just about every other classic system. If so, this is the approach I would take to porting MSX titles.

[opcode]

Opcode,
Did you ever figure out if RAM and a sound chip could be added to a CV cart? I would think there must be a way as they've done this on just about every other classic system. If so, this is the approach I would take to porting MSX titles.

The CV cartridge bus is a little poor in lines, so you don't have important ones like R/W. It's still possible to map extra RAM, though the program complexity will increase significantly. Sound chips are impossible as there isn't a soundin line.

[Aswald]

There are probably some thousands of active ColecoVision gamers out there, but not all- maybe only a minority- are really familiar with what's been going on lately for that console. How many Space Invaders Collection fans DIDN'T find out about it from the Digital Press, or maybe Colecovision.com?

In a way, great cartridges are good, because you just buy one and plug it in- no muss, no fuss. Just how far can a ColecoVision be pushed? In 1982, did anyone think that the 3-level scrolling in Matt Patrol was possible, for example? Who here wasn't amazed at SIC?

Ultimately, it seems as if the success of this module rests on the sort of games that will be available for it. Judging by the early press releases of the original Supergame Module, it (Coleco's model) may not have done well, because the new games weren't all that great. Donkey Kong was the same, even with extra screens and the intermissions- but the first 3 screens were still missing all of those game elements. This module would have to have some really SPECTACULAR games for it; like, say, an RPG that would take years to complete- maybe it would even not have an "ending," sort of like a single arrest of a mob boss did not end crime. Imagine being able to play an "Air Warrior" game "on-line" with it?

For the time being, Sky Jaguar and those other MSX games are more than enough for us ColecoVision gamers! Not to mention Space Invaders Collection, one of the most amazing CV games I've ever played (only Lord of the Dungeon exceeds it). With them, games of a sort not already available for the console could be reality; such as a side-scrolling/Boss game so popular in the late 1980s. Nemesis 3? Sort of test the limits, that sort of thing?