Manhunt underperforms at retail

[zmweasel]

From a GameSpot story about Black Friday:

"Manhunt, Take Two's envelope-pushing action title, never made it into the top 10. Saying it appeals only to a 'niche audience' (i.e., those who like a bit of the old ultra-violence), SoundView [a tech-research firm] predicted that the game will only ship a million units, compared to the 2.5-3.0 million copies of Max Payne 2. The report said that sales of MP2 will be essential for Take Two to make up any losses brought on by Manhunt's disappointing sales."

I fnd it fascinating that videogame development and marketing costs have ballooned to the point where a million copies sold into retail is considered "disappointing," but anyway -- seems like Americans aren't quite as desensitized to violence as Manhunt's designers had hoped.

-- Z.

[Astro Lad]

Controversy-based arguments aside, it's not as good as GTA. Gameplay still counts for something apparently, though it's by no means a bad game.

[vincewy]

Really? My local Best Buy has trouble keeping this game on shelf (they'll sell almost instantly), and the store I work at can't even get a single copy (we have many customers asking for it), guess they didn't distribute the games right.

[Half Japanese]

I personally haven't sold a single copy and haven't had anyone ask for it at my store. On the other hand I have seen a 9 year old kid eyeing a copy, but I'd be sure to give his mom the ratings spiel before she plunked down the cash (as I typically do). I think Rockstar has gained a, sorry to be cheap here, "rock star" like image and ego and feel they can do no wrong. I think GTA had them setting their sights on future ultra-violent games being just as big a hit, and it just isn't going to happen. It's truly almost horrifying when a game like Manhunt can be considered a disappointment at 1 million units when there are plenty of sleepers who deserved to sell that many and never will.

[Flack]

As a gamer who plays games of that niche, I'd just say that the commercials and ads I saw for that game didn't really make it look different enough from all the others to make me want to purchase it. Maybe I'll have to check out some other reviews or something, but this whole genre is starting to mush together.

[Oobgarm]

I'm with Flack here on this one. The advertising campaign for the game wasn't as strong or as prolific as it could have been. I understand why though, as the game is pretty heavy on the violence. I bought mine back on release day, and I've played it for a total of about 30-45 minutes. It's neat, but I've been preoccupied with other stuff to really put some time into it.

I'm surprised that they(Rockstar) put as much stock in the game as they did, especially considering the subject matter. There was a lot more to do in GTA, much more free-roaming. It appeals to more folks. As surprising as it may seem, ultra-violence isn't as popular as they have been lead to believe.

Look at the film A Clockwork Orange. It certainly has a following, but the ultra violence is a turn off to many (particularly the bludgeoning with the ceramic penis scene). It's regarded to be a classic, but only amongst those who are hardcore film buffs and/or non-traditionalists.

Manhunt is the same way, but won't be a classic by any means.

I've personally sold one copy to someone, and even that took a bit of prodding. We're in an area where that kind of stuff would thrive-them wresslin and shootin games sell real good. :D We still have around 9 of our original 12 game shipment at the store.

[Dirty Tiger]

I've yet to play this game. I may still yet.

It's kinda of an insult to the "mature" gaming crowd, It's almost as if they see their fanbase as a bunch of bloodlusting sociopaths.

It seems on the surface like they are glorifyng the "snuff film" urban myth more than the average gamer wants. Just for the sake of being "counture-cultural"

The violence in Vice/GTA3 was more along the lines of Itchy & Scratchy.
Ya' know, Black Humor, tongue and cheek. (You could blow pedestrians heads off- but it was not the thrust of the game)

But this Manhunt seems like they are pandering to the kids that love Slasher films and Rotten.com a little too much.

Just cuz it pisses of Lieberman doesn't make if fun.

[Mayhem]

It underperformed here in the UK too, just about managing to make the top 30 all formats chart.

[Raedon]

seems like Americans aren't quite as desensitized to violence as Manhunt's designers had hoped.
.


Actually they ARE desensitized to violence, that is WHY sales sucked.. It isn't violent enough. And i don't mean violent like War is violent.. Everyone in the game must be innocent, living happy little AI lives..

Want to make a game that sales millions? Make a game where you score points by killing wave after wave of innocent people... And it must have cute puppies to smash.. with.. a Mallet! And you should get health by putting kittens into microwaves! Then you should get a car that has metal scissor-like spikes on the front that cut the people you run into in half as the SCREAM FOR THEIR LIVES! And you would be able to kidnap people and rape them and hear them beg for their CG lives before you pull off their thumbs and cut off their ears for extra points!!!!!!!! @_@

Slap an M on that puppy it's ready for Rockstar to finish developing!

[Ed Oscuro]

seems like Americans aren't quite as desensitized to violence as Manhunt's designers had hoped.
.

Actually they ARE desensitized to violence, that is WHY sales sucked.. It isn't violent enough. And i don't mean violent like War is violent.. Everyone in the game must be innocent, living happy little AI lives..

I'm not exactly Rockstar's greatest fan, but I have to protest. As was said earlier, bad reviews (look at our review on Fatman Games!) and gameplay that's lacking don't make this one appealing to the hardcore gaming audience. Other than that...I sympathize with you on this one, Raedon, but I think ZMWeasel's right. The world was not welcoming this one with open arms.

[ManekiNeko]

BAH HAH HAH!!!
Zach, bless you. You just made my day with this news. It demonstrates that today's gamers still have some taste, and that Manhunt goes too far even for fans of the Grand Theft Auto series.
This should also stem the tide of snuff film games designed to ride on Manhunt's coattails. Since it's not popular, there will be no point in making cheesy ripoffs.
In case you're keeping score out there, folks...

BASIC HUMAN DECENCY- 1
ROCKSTAR GAMES- 0

JR

[Ed Oscuro]

BASIC HUMAN DECENCY- 1
SATAN AND SNOT NOSED KIDS- 0

Thought I'd make a little edit there ;)

[Dirty Tiger]

Hopefully the backlash against Nihilism and Sadism will usher in the new era in Rockstar's offerings.





Games with nekkid chicks.

[petewhitley]

BAH HAH HAH!!!
Zach, bless you. You just made my day with this news. It demonstrates that today's gamers still have some taste, and that Manhunt goes too far even for fans of the Grand Theft Auto series.
This should also stem the tide of snuff film games designed to ride on Manhunt's coattails. Since it's not popular, there will be no point in making cheesy ripoffs.
In case you're keeping score out there, folks...

BASIC HUMAN DECENCY- 1
ROCKSTAR GAMES- 0

JR

Can ManekiNeko please post a link to his entire video game and movie collection. I just want to make sure that he doesn't play or watch the countless games and movies in which innocent people are thoughtlessly murdered for our entertainment (Tenchu, Medal of Honor, River Raid, and about a thousand others). I'm pretty sure he's no BIG HYPOCRITE, so let's see it... x_x

[zmweasel]

Can ManekiNeko please post a link to his entire video game and movie collection. I just want to make sure that he doesn't play or watch the countless games and movies in which innocent people are thoughtlessly murdered for our entertainment (Tenchu, Medal of Honor, River Raid, and about a thousand others). I'm pretty sure he's no BIG HYPOCRITE, so let's see it... x_x

There is an enormous leap between the abstract "violence" of River Raid, the bloodless violence of Medal of Honor, and the graphic violence of Manhunt (although you're right in that it's not greatly removed from the stealth kills of Tenchu). Unless MN collects snuff films, he's no hypocrite.

-- Z.

[petewhitley]

Edit: I had a big reply here but fuck it. ManekiNeko hates me and I don't care enough to get into another Battlezone pissing war with him. I just want to say I LOVE MANHUNT, GTA III, AND CUSTER'S REVENGE. They're fun and I haven't killed or raped anyone in real life.

[Ed Oscuro]

There's a significant bit (though only a bit) of difference between lopping off heads for fun (or somebody else's fun, which makes Manhunt all the more bizzarre) and even Tenchu. Yes, Tenchu was a step towards Manhunt, but with Tenchu you had some reason (albeit the same cliched traditional revenge pablum we've seen ten thousand times before) for what you were doing. I maintain that Manhunt could've had a brilliantly exec...er, done story and that would've redeemed it a good deal; heck, I might've picked it up eventually.

Secondly, in Tenchu all you could manage was a throat-slash (at least the original, can't say what the newer ones have allowed) whereas Manhunt has you utilizing the full range of physics on various body parts. The key here is there were certain places Tenchu didn't go in terms of desecration of corpses.

On the other hand, that one eccentric millionaire fellow recently dodged a murder conviction even though he cut the fellow into a million pieces (and lost the head), though I can't say if they'll try another conviction relating to that aspect of it.

Manhunt seems to me a crude form of "goretainment," (sorry for trying to invent a halfassed term there, but it fits) whereas "my" vision of Manhunt would've been matter for thought. Maybe not a Trigun in terms of moralizing on about bloodshed and the sanctity of human life (or the lack of sanctity), but a darn sight better than what we got.

[Ed Oscuro]

Edit: I had a big reply here but fuck it. ManekiNeko hates me I don't care enough to get into another Battlezone pissing war with him. I just want to say I LOVE MANHUNT, GTA III, AND CUSTER'S REVENGE. They're fun and I haven't killed or raped anyone in real life.

Sorry, too. Edited my last post; I'm still saying that the acts of bodily desecration in Manhunt are too much for kids though.

[zmweasel]

However, a game like Medal of Honor clearly depicts the killing of humans as a form of entertainment (virtually no one plays video games for their educational value, let's no even argue this).

Medal of Honor's violence is bloodless and unrealistic, as when fallen enemies disappear. Yes, it depicts the killing of humans, but neither does it depict those deaths with explosions of blood and gore. It's a clear difference, which is why MoH and its sequels have T ratings instead of M ratings.


I picture him as the Kevin Bacon's father in "Footloose,"

Lori Singer's father, actually, but I know what you mean. (I have a mindful of useless movie trivia instead of useful information. Anyone wanna trade?)


The mediums of television, movies, music, and video games consistently (since the Atari 2600) use violence towards humans as entertainment.

You are absolutely correct, but we NEED folks like MN to question the necessity of graphic violence in videogames, and to make game designers justify their choices. Just because MN doesn't care for graphically violent games doesn't mean he should desert the hobby.

-- Z.

[Kid Fenris]

Not to derail the above debate, but has anyone come across any stories in the mainstream media concerning Manhunt's crude subject matter? I can't recall one irate newspaper editorial or politician's complaint about the game, and I suspect that such exposure would have aided Manhunt's sales.

[zmweasel]

Not to derail the above debate, but has anyone come across any stories in the mainstream media concerning Manhunt's crude subject matter? I can't recall one irate newspaper editorial or politician's complaint about the game, and I suspect that such exposure would have aided Manhunt's sales.

Nope, and I've been looking for 'em. Rockstar kept this game too low-profile for its own good, methinks. An aura of mystery is appropriate for the next GTA, but not for an unknown quantity that (to me, at least) initially bore a passing resemblance to the weak-sauce State of Emergency.

-- Z.

[Hep038]

Well I played this game over the thanksgiving weekend and I think I know why its not selling. Its Boring -_- . What fun is it to sneek up behind people and kill them? Even if you put a Nintendo twist on it it would still be boring, Say something like "Mario Wedgie". Where you sneek up behind Koopa and give him a wedgie. After you gave 20 wedgies the game would lose its charm, samething with Manhunt after I used each weapon with all 3 kills, I quit playing the game. Hiding in the dark and waiting for people to walk by is not my idea of fun.

Now if Rockstar Made a Death Race 2000 game I am sure it would sell more than a Million copies.

[maxlords]

If it'd been a serial killer simulator, where you stalk and kidnap people and eviscerate them in all sorts of unique ways, I'd have considered buying it. But no one is willing to make a game quite that extreme.... *sniff*

Basically....Manhunt has ZERO appeal for me...it's the type of play that I studiously avoid, and violence doesn't matter at all to me. Only me liking it matters, and I guarantee I wouldn't like that game.

For the record, I'm against basic human decency on general principle :)

[ManekiNeko]

BAH HAH HAH!!!
Zach, bless you. You just made my day with this news. It demonstrates that today's gamers still have some taste, and that Manhunt goes too far even for fans of the Grand Theft Auto series.
This should also stem the tide of snuff film games designed to ride on Manhunt's coattails. Since it's not popular, there will be no point in making cheesy ripoffs.
In case you're keeping score out there, folks...

BASIC HUMAN DECENCY- 1
ROCKSTAR GAMES- 0

JR

Can ManekiNeko please post a link to his entire video game and movie collection. I just want to make sure that he doesn't play or watch the countless games and movies in which innocent people are thoughtlessly murdered for our entertainment (Tenchu, Medal of Honor, River Raid, and about a thousand others). I'm pretty sure he's no BIG HYPOCRITE, so let's see it... x_x

Excuse me? Am I suddenly on trial here for expressing an opinion about the objectionable content in Manhunt? And you wonder why I called you a dick.

There's a huge gap between the violence and sadism in your average video game (or even some of the bloodier ones, like Mortal Kombat) and Manhunt, where you help create snuff film footage by sneaking behind unsuspecting people and suffocating them with a plastic bag. I own no snuff films, and I have no intentions of purchasing Manhunt. And most importantly, I don't plan to get into a war of words with you, no matter how much you try to antagonize me (and I'm sure you'll TRY).

JR

[djbeatmongrel]

i've read a lot of posts on a few boards concerning this game. some praising it for the extreme content, others ripping it apart for the same thing, as well as many relating to the actual quality of the game and all have had some valid reasons for their take on this game but i haven't replied much on this matter but i feel it is most appropiate at this time to do so.

I'm 17 years old and am border line legal for purchasing this game. I've looked forward to it ever since i read the first previews for it and even acquired the huge gamestop preorder sign to put in my room. I've played and beaten the game an enjoyed it thorughly.

I've found manhunt to be a great stealth game becuase of its level of intensity and its on edge game play. the violence in manhunt its a great touch but i find it only helps in keeping you engrossed in the games story making you feel as if you are within "the director's" realm. although the stealth elements are very repetative (atract attention, hide in the shadows, repeat), it makes you really feel like the hunted becoming the hunted.

I feel that manhunt shouldn't be looked at as being a in depth stealth game because if you look at the main character, james earl cash, you are only going to know how to hide and kill by instinct. you aren't a spec ops commando type with top notch gov't training, your a fucking convict trying to survive the director's sick game.

I personally dont think little kids should play this because of its graphic content and strong language but i don't beleive it should be looked at as another title to create shock value. I think rock star was trying to be cautious of this becoming the next big thing since manhunt has more reasons within it for parents to point the blame at when their poster child does something extremely violent towards their peers. just don't take this game for face value.

P.S. Please excuse all grammatical errors :D

[petewhitley]

And most importantly, I don't plan to get into a war of words with you, no matter how much you try to antagonize me (and I'm sure you'll TRY).

JR

Had you bothered to read the rest of the thread before you posted, you'd have seen that I actually retracted a later post and explained that I did so to avoid a war of words with you.

[calthaer]

To be honest I don't think it's the actual violence that's the problem in this instance so much as it is the pretense for it. One could rationalize that a black ops game or an Unreal game - where the story is "you work for the government" or "you're stranded on a hostile alien world" gives you a plausible reason for violence. Anybody, regardless of background, would pick up the "Stick of Six Fires" and whack some Skaarj if they were stuck on Na Pali. They even made the Skaarj heartless opressors of the Nali people, to boot.

Manhunt, on the other hand, says "you are a person in today's society, and you murder other human beings (not aliens, robots, Nazis, etc.) in cold blood because it's FUN. There's a fairly big difference, not maybe in the particular actions being taken, but in the fiction / reasons given for it. Every game, to some extent, is a "role-playing game" that sticks you in a role. While I'd be fine "role-playing" an escaped convict on Na Pali, Manhunt is something I'm not sure is a healthy fantasy for anyone.

[Ed Oscuro]

the "Stick of Six Fires"

Is that what they're calling the things these days? Pick up a stick of six fires and give them WHAT FOR! LOL

Funniest description of a weapon I've ever read. No, seriously now, I haven't played any Unreal game...but you just made that up, right?

[Dahne]

While skimming thrad titles quickly, this appeared to me as "Man hunts underwear."

[calthaer]

Is that what they're calling the things these days? Pick up a stick of six fires and give them WHAT FOR! LOL

Funniest description of a weapon I've ever read. No, seriously now, I haven't played any Unreal game...but you just made that up, right?

No, I did not make that up :)

In Unreal there are a lot of places where your Universal Translator will "read" the alien inscriptions on walls and whatnot. Na Pali is a planet where you have the Nali (tribal folk, low-tech) and the Skaarj (evil oppressive aliens, high-tech, and your enemies). I guess you have humans, too (of which you are one). The tribal Nali people called the rocket launcher (which has six barrels that you can load up and shoot in a variety of ways) the "stick of six fires" when you get it in the temple of Chizra-Nali the "water god."

Man, that was a great game. The original Unreal really did blow Quake / Q2 away - the ambience just couldn't be matched. Unreal 2 was a lame duck in comparison.

[petewhitley]

Manhunt, on the other hand, says "you are a person in today's society, and you murder other human beings (not aliens, robots, Nazis, etc.) in cold blood because it's FUN.

That's definitely not the premise of the game. You're being forced by some crazy guy to kill gang members in "Manhunt."