Nintendo Dumping Rare: Good Move!

[zmweasel]

I love NPD sales figures. LOVE THEM. They dispel theory and myth and provide cold, hard truth.

For the month of October '03, its first month in release, Grabbed by the Ghoulies -- Rare's Xbox debut -- sold roughly 6,000 copies. That's a hugely disappointing number, especially for a fourth-quarter release. (The #10 game on the Xbox list, Halo, sold more than 36,000 copies.)

There are several reasons why Ghoulies bombed at retail. The awful, awful title. (Double entendres and E-rated games don't mix.) The difficulty of selling "cute" in the current videogame market. (Most of the E-rated games on the charts are sports.) But most importantly, all of Rare's talented designers bolted long ago, which is why Nintendo cut 'em loose in the first place. The fact that Microsoft didn't recognize the current Rare as a much-diminished version of its former self is a Very Bad Sign. No wonder MS is dropping to third place in a one-horse race.

What do you think happens from here? Does Microsoft continue to hype Rare as a premiere developer, or move Rare into the background and hype the games themselves, or wash its hands of Rare as soon as possible?

-- Z.

[Querjek]

True, but I still wonder what things would have been like if Donkey Kong Racing was ever finished and released... I loved DKR on the N64. Ahh, dreams...

[Zaxxon]

What did MS pay for Rare? They may have gotten them cheaply. If so, the Rare name has already served it's purpose which was to get the attention of all those Nintendo/Rare fanboys and others who didn't consider the Xbox a serious contender. Whether they make money from now on or they end up dumping them doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme. It's grains of sand off MS's beach.

[hezeuschrist]

6000, thats absurd.

Does anyone know if rental copies are included in sales figures? I mean for the big names like Blockbuster and Hollywood, not the local stores.

[ubersaurus]

I love NPD sales figures. LOVE THEM. They dispel theory and myth and provide cold, hard truth.

For the month of October '03, its first month in release, Grabbed by the Ghoulies -- Rare's Xbox debut -- sold roughly 6,000 copies. That's a hugely disappointing number, especially for a fourth-quarter release. (The #10 game on the Xbox list, Halo, sold more than 36,000 copies.)

There are several reasons why Ghoulies bombed at retail. The awful, awful title. (Double entendres and E-rated games don't mix.) The difficulty of selling "cute" in the current videogame market. (Most of the E-rated games on the charts are sports.) But most importantly, all of Rare's talented designers bolted long ago, which is why Nintendo cut 'em loose in the first place. The fact that Microsoft didn't recognize the current Rare as a much-diminished version of its former self is a Very Bad Sign. No wonder MS is dropping to third place in a one-horse race.

What do you think happens from here? Does Microsoft continue to hype Rare as a premiere developer, or move Rare into the background and hype the games themselves, or wash its hands of Rare as soon as possible?

-- Z.

It was clear rare was really more of a "one hit wonder" that happened to get that one hit a few times. DKC, Goldeneye, and what? Were successful. DK64, Perfect Dark, DKR, conker, all may have been good games, but were any of them really successful? And then you've got less then stellar titles like star fox adventures, and you gotta believe that rare wasn't worth a hell of a lot.

That said, I'm still looking forward to Perfect Dark Zero 8-)

[ManekiNeko]

In the commercials for Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Microsoft actually reminds the audience that the game was created by "the makers of Donkey Kong Country", a Super NES release that debuted nearly ten years ago. If you have to go that far back to brag about Rare's accomplishments as a software designer, you have to wonder if the company is even relevant in this day and age.
The big problem with Grabbed by the Ghoulies, in my view, is that it's too generic. From what I've seen of it so far, it just doesn't have the distinctive look or style of a Rare game. What Rare needs to do to survive is to bring back some of their old classics, like Killer Instinct and Wizards and Warriors. After playing Maximo on the Playstation 2, I'm convinced that Wizards and Warriors would work extremely well as a 3D action/adventure game.

JR

[Ed Oscuro]

I remember the other day we were saying that Grabbed by the Ghoulies (ugh @ that title, sorry but I'm a slow one when it comes to this) was a promising title that wouldn't make it. So...is the game completely destroyed by its bland nature?

[Astro Lad]

Killer Instinct. They had some huge franchises. 95% of devs would kill for something like the run DKC had, and forget about Goldeneye. So they didn't have 15 huge titles. Besides the HUGE companies, they had a remarkable run of success.

That said, they're inexplicably slow and imo their quality has really dropped, I agree there, but I certainly don't agree that the company behind the following games/series could be defined as a "one-hit wonder" by even the loosest meaning of the phrase:
Starfox Adventures
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Perfect Dark
Goldeneye
Jet Force Gemini
Blast Corps
Killer Instinct Series
Donkey Kong Country Series
Battletoads Series

Some critical hits, some commercial hits, some not, but that's certainly not the pedigree of a "one-hit wonder."

[Zaxxon]

In the commercials for Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Microsoft actually reminds the audience that the game was created by "the makers of Donkey Kong Country", a Super NES release that debuted nearly ten years ago. If you have to go that far back to brag about Rare's accomplishments as a software designer, you have to wonder if the company is even relevant in this day and age.
JR

Sounds like Rare is trying to be like Shiny.

[sisko]

I wonder if any of it has to do with the move themselves. I mean, I am a huge Rare fan, and was extremely geared up for the release of Perfect Dark Zero. Its safe to say that a large deciding factor in my purchase of the Gamecube (on launch day) was that I wanted this game..

What if the Rare loyalists already bought the system on the same principle I did, only to have the company ship over to MS? So here you have potentially thousands of people who won't purchase Rare games because they have Gamecubes instead of XBoxes.

Did that make any sense?

[NvrMore]

To be honest, Microsoft weren't buying Rare as a viable development house, or at least I doubt that was their main motivation in buying them.

MS were trying to buy the fanbase, which for a fledgling console were/are a far more valuable commodity.

Personal opinions of the current Rare aside, they had (and to a lesser extent still do have) and fairly devoted and numerous fanbase. MS were likely hoping that in buying Rare, irrespective of it's state at that time, they would be able to lure the fanbase over to their console and at the same time take a commercial bite out of one of their competitors.

Admittedly, it's a good idea in principle and IMO we haven't given things enough time to see if such a gamble will pay off.

Personally I think it's fair to say in the beginning at least, it partially worked. It certainly wouldn't be unfair to say that a number of the hardcore Rare fanbase took the bait, irrespective of the notable internal losses in Rare's pool of talent, the name was simply enough for them.

Unfortunately, MS are potentially dropping the ball with regard to maintaining such a fanbase's interest. If they don't pick up Rare's output quality and get a big hitter out there then even the most hardcore fan will begin to notice that their favorite name is looking ever so much more as just that.. a name.

And there's the fact that the style of games Rare is famous for is largely deemed "kiddy" by the same people who MS sell the Xbox to as a "mature" gaming platform and is somewhat isolated amidst said console image.

Then there's the defection of a number of key Rare talent straight back to Nintendo in some form or another at the time of the developer's sale.


So far, MS have paid a very hefty sum for a name and a good shot at accquiring it's fanbase, I still think it's too early to say their gamble hasn't paid off, but at the same time they seriously need to get their act together or else they genuinly risk wasting both their investment and the opportunity they were aiming for.

[IntvGene]

Does anyone know how much of the current staff at Rare has been around from the SNES days? Has it seen alot of attrition, like some other companies, or is it still mainly the same crew?

[Dahne]

Where did you find these NPD figures? I wanna see. :)

[zmweasel]

Where did you find these NPD figures? I wanna see. :)

Several websites post 'em, though they're naughty for doing so, as NPD charges thousands of dollars for a yearly "subscription" to its database.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Does anyone know how much of the current staff at Rare has been around from the SNES days? Has it seen alot of attrition, like some other companies, or is it still mainly the same crew?

Lots of attrition. In particular, a large group of ex-Rarers founded Free Radical Design, the peeps behind the TimeSplitters franchise (which was recently dumped by Eidos after disappointing sales of TimeSplitters 2).

-- Z.

[Half Japanese]

Microsoft actually reminds the audience that the game was created by "the makers of Donkey Kong Country", a Super NES release that debuted nearly ten years ago

You think that's bad? Not only is it in the commercial, it's ON THE BOX ITSELF. I never really cared for Rare outside of Goldeneye/Perfect Dark and Super RC Pro Am. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be no worse off if the rest of their pantheon of titles never existed.

[josekortez]

Since I reviewed Grabbed By the Ghoulies for my freelance job, I have to say the game isn't that bad. It's a 3D beat-'em-up, although nowhere near as fun as stuff like Dynamite Cop 2 or Zombie Revenge. For kids, it's a good starter game in the genre, but most kids don't own Xboxes (I would assume). It's very tedious, though. You have to backtrack a lot, and you might die just from the dozens of enemies that surround you. Also, the game supports Dolby, but the human characters never speak. They squeak like Banjo from Banjo-Kazooie! Also, the lack of custom soundtrack irritates me...

Also, you have to consider that Microsoft has been releasing a glut of games over the last two months, many of them better than GBtG. Off the top of my head, Project Gotham 2, Counterstrike, and Crimson Skies come to mind as the ones I play regularly from my review pile. I haven't touched Ghoulies since I reviewed it...

I don't know if gamers will flock to Rare's next release, Kameo, but holding back Perfect Dark Zero until after Halo 2 isn't going to help their sales...

Finally, Quartermann said in EGM that Grabbed by the Ghoulies is a English joke about grabbing someone's nads. I don't get it...

[Anonymous]

We mustn't forget that rare has the all important old-lady-and-soccer-mom demographic clinched. There are more rabid over-the-hill Rare fangirls than you can shake a stick at.

[§ Gideon §]

In the commercials for Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Microsoft actually reminds the audience that the game was created by "the makers of Donkey Kong Country", a Super NES release that debuted nearly ten years ago. If you have to go that far back to brag about Rare's accomplishments as a software designer, you have to wonder if the company is even relevant in this day and age.
Well, there is the GBA release. So, I suppose if I felt like playing devil's advocate, I would argue against that point... But, I don't.

[josekortez]

I have to say, though, I like the commercial for the game when the fat kid puts down the Xbox controller and starts to whip his buddy's ass with a throw pillow. And they say kids aren't getting enough exercise these days... LOL

[Queen Of The Felines]

We mustn't forget that rare has the all important old-lady-and-soccer-mom demographic clinched. There are more rabid over-the-hill Rare fangirls than you can shake a stick at.

Hey, c'mon now, I ain't THAT old!

* Drags out N64 to replay Banjo-Kazooie *

Kristine

[brykasch]

And the PS2 fanboy that posted this ugghhh where do I start.

I bought Grabbed by the Ghoulies, I like it alot, is it my most favorite game of all time, no, but it was well worth the money and I had a blast playing it. It is the first game Rare has put on the box, but not the last, every company puts out games that don't sell alot of copies. Yes there is some fanaticism by some people about Rare. I am not one of em, I like alot of their games, but only one company has gotten my money without question and thats Blizzard.

If you have the latest OXM disc look at the Kameo footage it is going to be a good game,yes they are a slow developer but no slower than say a Working Designs.

And I hate to break it to you but the Playstation is not the 800 lb gorilla it was a couple of years ago, its console is yesterdays news in terms of technology, and there are just as many games that a good for PS2 as Xbox, and most of the ones on the Xbox aren't sequals:)

Seriously I have all three systems, and the only one that is lagging is the GC, I love it and I have more games for this than any other next gen system, but look at what's coming down the pike and its starting to look bare (tales of symphonia, final fantasy, harvest moon)

Rare was offered good money (i'm assuming) and maybe they felt it was time to move on.

[lendelin]

I'd be more careful to call MS acquisition of Rare a bad move, even at this incredible sum of money.

When I read reviews of "Grabbed by the Ghoulies" and some sales figures I was also tempted to think that this was not a smart move in hindsight. However,

1) so far we have only one game by Rare for the XBox, I'd wait until Kameo and Perfect Dark comes out to make such a judgement call.

2) Rare is still able to provide high-quality games EXACTLY where XBOx' deficits are regarding the game library, namely cutesy, friendly family-oriented games; therefore potential Rare games are an important tool for MS to widen it's appeal for a broader game audience. A varied and deep game library is key for the success of a console.

3) the decision to go with a large (and very expensive) development house like Rare instead of diversifying the wanted games to smaller third party developers with exclusive deals has advantages: a very close cooperation betwen MS and Rare, the guarantee that certain games will be released if needed, a convergence of marketing strategies for games if needed, and last but not least MSs image problem as the newcomer in the console business was balanced out with the image of a long standing develioping house like Rare which produced classics.

4) MS has the financial power not to depend on Rare alone; exclusive deals with smaller developers will still be done, Rare is just a varied addition to MSs market strategy.

[Spoony Bard]

I think Nintendo made a brilliant move in selling Rare. The developer wan't making alot of money for the big N. A number of comments have been made in here that I won't repeat, but I would like to say these two things:

Alot of Rare's success came from taking established Nintendo licenses and making them new; MS doesn't have that established character base.

Look at the timing of the sale. Metroid Prime was about to be unveiled to the world, and Nintendo knew they had a new big hitter coming up. I can't blame them for ditching Rare when Retro was about to set the world on fire wth Metroid.

[Dahne]

look at the Kameo footage it is going to be a good game

Ah, I see you can tell how well a game is going to play by looking at pictures now. Neat.

[zmweasel]

I can't blame them for ditching Rare when Retro was about to set the world on fire wth Metroid.

Metroid Prime has done relatively well, but it hasn't even cracked a million units sold through yet (which should happen by year's end). It's been a solid hit, but "setting the world on fire"? Not quite.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

What did MS pay for Rare? They may have gotten them cheaply. If so, the Rare name has already served it's purpose which was to get the attention of all those Nintendo/Rare fanboys and others who didn't consider the Xbox a serious contender. Whether they make money from now on or they end up dumping them doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme. It's grains of sand off MS's beach.

Financial details were undisclosed, alas.

I don't know that the acquisition of Rare has drawn ANYONE's attention to the Xbox. Not with first-month sales like that. Perhaps the Rare fans are waiting for Kameo and Perfect Dark.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

And the PS2 fanboy that posted this ugghhh where do I start.

PS2 fanboy? Whatchu talkin' 'bout?


It is the first game Rare has put on the box, but not the last, every company puts out games that don't sell alot of copies.

True dat, but Microsoft picked up Rare because Rare games almost always DO sell a lot of copies -- or rather, they used to. Nintendo ditched Rare in large part because Rare's games weren't pulling their Nintendo-funded weight anymore. (1.5% of total Nintendo software sales in Rare's last year under the big N's banner.)

Here's what a Nintendo bigwig publicly stated: "Nintendo had the ability to continue its exclusive relationship with Rare, but in looking at the company's recent track record, it became clear that its value to the future of Nintendo would be limited." Not that Nintendo would wish a future competitor the best of luck, but still, that's a very harsh way to end a long-term relationship.


If you have the latest OXM disc look at the Kameo footage it is going to be a good game,yes they are a slow developer but no slower than say a Working Designs.

If I could tell good games from bad just by watching video clips, I'd be an extremely productive freelance weasel.

Working Designs isn't a true developer; it localizes Japanese games for the North American market. A degree of reprogramming is involved, but it's certainly not creating games from scratch.

Also, WD is essentially a one-man band, whereas Rare is a huge company with many dozens of employees. The two companies couldn't be more different.


And I hate to break it to you but the Playstation is not the 800 lb gorilla it was a couple of years ago, its console is yesterdays news in terms of technology, and there are just as many games that a good for PS2 as Xbox, and most of the ones on the Xbox aren't sequals:)

What does the PS2 have to do with this topic? We were talking about Microsoft and Rare (and Nintendo).


Rare was offered good money (i'm assuming) and maybe they felt it was time to move on.

It wasn't Rare's call to "move on." Nintendo dumped 'em (which everyone in the videogame biz knew was coming) and Microsoft swooped in for the sloppy seconds.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

For kids, it's a good starter game in the genre, but most kids don't own Xboxes (I would assume).

I don't know the demographic breakdown of the different consoles, but game developers and publishers sure seem to think that the Cube is the console of choice for kids.


Also, the lack of custom soundtrack irritates me...

I'm fine with the lack of custom-soundtrack support in Ghoulies, since its music sets a creepy mood; allowing the user to blast Bad Religion or Roxette would destroy the theme. Custom soundtracks have their place in certain genres, but not this game.


Also, you have to consider that Microsoft has been releasing a glut of games over the last two months, many of them better than GBtG. Off the top of my head, Project Gotham 2, Counterstrike, and Crimson Skies come to mind as the ones I play regularly from my review pile. I haven't touched Ghoulies since I reviewed it...

Those other games didn't steal Ghoulies' thunder, because they were aimed at different demographics and genres. (Which gives credence to your theory that kids don't own Xboxes -- hence, no market for Ghoulies.)

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I wonder if any of it has to do with the move themselves. I mean, I am a huge Rare fan, and was extremely geared up for the release of Perfect Dark Zero. Its safe to say that a large deciding factor in my purchase of the Gamecube (on launch day) was that I wanted this game..

What if the Rare loyalists already bought the system on the same principle I did, only to have the company ship over to MS? So here you have potentially thousands of people who won't purchase Rare games because they have Gamecubes instead of XBoxes.

Did that make any sense?

That did make sense, and that's a very cool theory. We experienced something like it at Working Designs, when we aborted the Saturn version of Lunar: SSSC (actually, we'd never begun working on it) and made it PlayStation-exclusive. Lots of angry emails from gamers who'd purchased a Saturn solely because WD was supporting it.

-- Z.

[maxlords]

Since I reviewed Grabbed By the Ghoulies for my freelance job, I have to say the game isn't that bad. It's a 3D beat-'em-up, although nowhere near as fun as stuff like Dynamite Cop 2 or Zombie Revenge.

I have to say that when you're comparing it to Zombie Revenge and Dynamite Cop 2 and it doesn't measure up, chances are you've got a turd on your hands.... :D

[brykasch]

I wouldn't necessarily say you were a PS2 fanboy, but when you make a statement like " No wonder MS is dropping to third place in a one-horse race." It seemed like it to me.

You should never hype the designers themselves it should be about the game, if you want to reference a couple of past hits thats fine, but really you shouldn't need to do that at all.

To me at least it didn't seem like there was alot of hype and ads for the game before it came out. And there is alot of games coming out and a game can easily slip through the cracks. Hell look at oddworld, got great reviews but didn't sell a ton. It happens. I am not saying gbtg is a classic, or even a top seller, but I liked it and so did alot of others including some game magazines.

Kameo- Maybe I should have been more specific, I am not saying its gonna be a great game based on the footage, but it is looking very good. And alot of people have used footage to base gaming decisions on. Just look at the uproar when the zelda footage first came out, and some people never changed their minds after that.

All I am saying is let Rare release all of its upcoming games then decide.

[ManekiNeko]

Since I reviewed Grabbed By the Ghoulies for my freelance job, I have to say the game isn't that bad. It's a 3D beat-'em-up, although nowhere near as fun as stuff like Dynamite Cop 2 or Zombie Revenge.

I have to say that when you're comparing it to Zombie Revenge and Dynamite Cop 2 and it doesn't measure up, chances are you've got a turd on your hands.... :D

Ow! Oooh... oh man, that's hilarious. Looks like Maxlords has Rare by the Ghoulies now!

JR