Yet more ACTUAL news about Nintendo's troubles (fanboy free) [Archive]

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Raedon

12-10-2003, 10:53 AM

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501031215-557120,00.html

Nintendo has suffered such a string of bad news over the past few months and posted such disappointing financial results over the past few quarters that many investors, analysts and industry watchers are wondering whether the onetime industry giant can hit restart

oh.. and this from the guy at the helm..

What people want, Iwata says, are simpler, more accessible games that are easier to play and solve�think thumb candy for dummies.

That was an answer to what gamers want when it comes to ONLINE gaming.. omg.. Someone fire that guy!

Ed Oscuro

12-10-2003, 12:06 PM

oh.. and this from the guy at the helm..

What people want, Iwata says, are simpler, more accessible games that are easier to play and solve�think thumb candy for dummies.

That was an answer to what gamers want when it comes to ONLINE gaming.. omg.. Someone fire that guy!

Iwata said that people want more accessible games that are easy to play and solve. The "thumb candy for dummies" comment comes from Time's writer, not Iwata.

Secondly, their figures seem a bit suspect. We all know that sales of GameCubes were recently boosted quite dramatically, but Time makes no mention. As usual, Time is behind the times (no pun intended).

Edit:

Oh, here's another gem.

At least Iwata can still count on his steady handheld business, right? ... But all those gaming boys and girls are growing up; Sony hopes to repeat its console success in handhelds by focusing on adult customers. The stakes for Nintendo are high, because Game Boy hardware and software now account for about 60% of the company's annual sales and a similar share of its profits. Sony recently announced plans to enter the handheld market next year with the PlayStation Portable. Meanwhile, other companies, especially mobile-phone makers, are hoping to beat Sony to the punch by converting millions of cell-phone users into game addicts via their handsets. Nokia just debuted its N-Gage phone-plus-games gadget, while many 3G mobile phones available in Japan already rival Game Boy in graphics and playability.

Sony's next real console looks to be pushed back to 2005 if not later and overhead costs in developing the system's new chip continue to mount, and we've recently heard of that particular company's bigger problems with losing market share to the more "traditional" consumer devices manufacturers. Nokia? Not a chance. 3G is an interesting mention, as online capability continues to be something the GBA is in sore need of. I don't doubt that the mobile phones are drawing away a share of Nintendo's customers in Japan, but how big that share is remains to be seen.

WiseSalesman

12-10-2003, 12:27 PM

Iwata said that people want more accessible games that are easy to play and solve. The "thumb candy for dummies" comment comes from Time's writer, not Iwata.

That may be so, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still wrong about what people want. I'm one of the biggest nintendo fanboy's around, and it's even pssing ME off how easy and simplistic their games are becoming. I mean, look at WindWaker for God's sake.

Raedon

12-10-2003, 12:30 PM

Actually there is a paragraph in there that talks about the price drop as a effort to bring up install base to sell more xmas software.

Ed Oscuro

12-10-2003, 12:44 PM

Actually there is a paragraph in there that talks about the price drop as a effort to bring up install base to sell more xmas software.

I'm talking about the recent sales of 3000 units in a week, which was an increase in sales unheard of in recent times. If they can keep that up, things aren't looking quite as dire anymore. I believe that was largely due to the second Zelda bonus disc, not just the price drop. In any case, the news of the price drop is really a bit old. This article was stale before they released it.

Zubiac666

12-10-2003, 12:50 PM

uh...time x_x
not exactly the best place to look for videogames info

:roll:

Iwata means that gaming in general should be easy(NOT easy games but easy to learn controlls and stuff).

....and now stop the nintendo bashing

I'm sick of reading every week a new topic bout "another" reason/proof/whatever why Ninty will die.
No wonder everyone's talking about Nintendo is going down

GO NINTENDO GO
:rocker:

zmweasel

12-10-2003, 03:10 PM

WiseSalesman

12-10-2003, 03:37 PM

Spoony Bard

12-10-2003, 05:18 PM

But if the new Playstation or Xbox fails, it doesn't hurt Sony or Microsoft as much because they have many other divisions. Nintendo is a video game company, not an electronics or computer company. They have 6 billion dollars in war chest for a reason. They would be much more aggressive if need be. And I'd say they need to right now.

boatofcar

12-10-2003, 05:44 PM

Nintendo....the new Apple?

Cmosfm

12-10-2003, 05:59 PM

I guess that would be pretty messed up if nintendo revived the games industry with the NES, passed on a deal with Sony back in the SNES days, the sony blew them out of the water and they were the first major company blown out of the gaming buisness. I bet someone at Nintendo would commit suicide.

But it wont happen, you really think Mario and all the other mascots will ever die? no way!

WiseSalesman

12-10-2003, 06:37 PM

Everyone said it couldn't happen to Sega, and look at them now. On the other hand, Nintendo has said that when they leave the console business, they leave the videogame business for good.

Die, replacement friend!

As a side note, I love that damn movie boatofcar.

NvrMore

12-10-2003, 07:20 PM

Hey, look at that, another N bash thread. Looks like they're going from bi-weekly to weekly.. and hey, there's a shock, look who the thread starter is.. AGAIN.

And the usual petty bash boy defence.. "blah, blah, fanboys".

It's alright to cry "no fanboys" to try and stop anyone from disrupting the usual attempt at pointlessly bashing a company but when you yourself and the threads you create are the typical bash-boy nonesense then you kind of lose the "biasless posting only" angle. :roll:

Hell at least lets be honest about it.. we can just copy and paste the text from the past threads straight into here to save retyping the same thing over again for the sake of trying to make it sound different from the last several thousand times it was said.

I know, I know, why bother posting in a thread if not to participate in the "topic" (aka fuel the regurgitation of of the last 20 bash-boy threads).. well I just figure that if the weekly bash thread regurgitation stands as valid posting and topic material, then this is certainly upto par, hell it would just be wrong to break tradition.

It begins.. again.. wooo -_-

Raedon

12-10-2003, 08:34 PM

Guess I should have said fangirl in the disclaimer to.. ;)

Dahne

12-10-2003, 08:46 PM

Microsoft and Sony are already selling game machines capable of connecting to the Internet, anticipating the shift to multipurpose entertainment devices.

I hope I'm not alone in really hating this trend. I buy a gaming console to play games. I don't need it to be the bastard love child of a cell phone, a coffee maker, a fax machine, and a modem. The law is, the more things you try to do, the fewer you do well. I want to be able to turn the thing on and play. That's where simplicity should come into gaming. Plug in, hit power, play.

I'm also not too fond of the internet connectivity thing either. Being able to play online is nice, but I'm worried about the other parts of PC gaming that may cross the boundary onto consoles. Rampant bugs, installing and uninstalling, having to spend hundreds of dollars just to get the next upgrade so that you can play recent games, companies releasing unfinished games with a promise to patch them later then going on to their next project...PC gaming is all well and good even with its problems, but I have a PC for that.

WiseSalesman

12-10-2003, 08:52 PM

It's alright to cry "no fanboys" to try and stop anyone from disrupting the usual attempt at pointlessly bashing a company

Okay, I see nothing at all the matter with intelligently debating the point here. But you can't tell me this

NiNtEnDo Can't fail at anything becuz I have loved them 4-evah and they are GODs among men so stop the nintendo bashing go nintendo go

remotely resembles anything like intelligent conversation. THAT'S why I called him a fanboy. Hell, I'd say I'm one of the biggest Nintendo fanboys on this board, in case you haven't noticed. Why do I "bash" Nintendo? Because they're making mistakes. Lots of them. And being too selfish and pigheaded to give their customers and developers what they want.

And because if they KEEP doing that I'm going to lose my favorite developer/console maker and then I won't be anybody's fanboy anymore.

sisko

12-10-2003, 08:57 PM

Guess I should have said fangirl in the disclaimer to.. ;)

Yeah but she has a point. I always see you jump on the train first when it comes to Nintendo's problems (big or small).

Whether or not this topic is "fanboy free", it lost that credibility immediately when a fanboy created it.

Or should I say, I don't remember you starting a topic when Sony's profits fell (though I could very well be wrong)

http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/fullstory.asp?id=5423

Raedon

12-10-2003, 09:37 PM

AB Positive

12-10-2003, 09:49 PM

Kevin Listwan

12-10-2003, 10:00 PM

Zubiac666 wrote:
uh...time x_x
not exactly the best place to look for videogames info

It's stunningly ignorant of you to dismiss one of the world's most venerable and reputable newsmagazines with an eye-roll emoticon. The financial reporters at TIME are far more qualified to analyze the current and future state of Nintendo's corporate health than any game-enthusiast publication or website.

-- Z.

zmweasel, I totaly agree, it seems that the only place some get their video game info is from gaming outlets, bring in any business articles and no one cares. Those out side the gamming industry have the best vantage point and can also see what is going on with Nintendo or any other company business wise.

Ed Oscuro

12-10-2003, 10:33 PM

uh...time x_x
not exactly the best place to look for videogames info

It's stunningly ignorant of you to dismiss one of the world's most venerable and reputable newsmagazines with an eye-roll emoticon. The financial reporters at TIME are far more qualified to analyze the current and future state of Nintendo's corporate health than any game-enthusiast publication or website.

-- Z.

Financial criticisms are one thing, having good figures to base them on is another. I bet this article was finished before the GC had its recent (temporary?) upswing in sales.

I'm not going to suggest that TIME is less reliable than many other print magazines -- just that I see a few things with this article in specific that I don't think were researched (or perhaps conveyed to the reader) well, such as the Nokia bit (surely they've heard of the Tapwave?) which are important but nevertheless minor parts of the whole.

hezeuschrist

12-11-2003, 01:43 AM

But if the new Playstation or Xbox fails, it doesn't hurt Sony or Microsoft as much because they have many other divisions. quote]

If the new Xbox fails, oh well, the only thing hurt is Microsofts pride. If the new Playstation fails, Sony is in for some serious shit.

[quote=NvrMore]Hell at least lets be honest about it.. we can just copy and paste the text from the past threads straight into here to save retyping the same thing over again for the sake of trying to make it sound different from the last several thousand times it was said.

For true. I like a discussion just as much as the next person but this really isn't news. It's the same topic we had last week, and the one we had in the middle of November. WE KNOW Nintendo has made some huge mistakes. Now, if Nintendo announces something, that's debate worthy. Nintendo hasn't said squat about anything recently other than their mystery hardware debuting at E3 this year, which by the way has me curious and deathly afraid that it's going to be some stupid gimmick. It's all just the same thing said over in over, just by someone else with different wording.

Honestly, when someone makes a topic about XXX news article or XXX game, then someone starts another thread about it the next week, the new one is locked down and the old one is bumped. This is not news, this is restatement of fact. Re-re-re-re-restatement.

Zubiac666

12-11-2003, 02:06 AM

....and now stop the nintendo bashing

I'm sick of reading every week a new topic bout "another" reason/proof/whatever why Ninty will die.
No wonder everyone's talking about Nintendo is going down

GO NINTENDO GO
:rocker:

Did you miss the part of the topic that said "no fanboys"?

Oh yeah,sorry bout that. U r right!
*face turns red* :embarrassed:

Zubiac666 wrote:
NiNtEnDo Can't fail at anything becuz I have loved them 4-evah and they are GODs among men so stop the nintendo bashing go nintendo go

wtf? I've never said/posted this!
Editing someones post is even worse than harcore-ninty-fanboyism
:bad-words:
:grumble:

Off-topic: Can anyone tell me why "Mortal Kombat 1" hasn't got a pause-function? wtf
:?

badinsults

12-11-2003, 02:14 AM

*yawn*

There isn't really anything in that article that hasn't been said in a hundred other articles. I mean, give it a rest people. All of the consoles have their merits. Myself, I am getting a Gamecube, because it is cheaper and it has Fzero GC. Even if the Gamecube were to be discontinued next year, I would still get one, because it has the one next generation game that I truely want. I always would have figured that the whole "console war" type of thing would have been disregarded after one got out of grade school, but I suppose I was wrong.

That is all.

whoisKeel

12-11-2003, 02:31 AM

this article makes no sense at all. they say that the xbox and gamecube are tied for the left-overs. wouldn't that put nintendo on top of xbox with the gba then? are they even considering japan sales? then they say that hardware sales really don't count for much money, but then they bash them for slashing their prices on the gamecube.

then he says:

Despite its troubles, no one is seriously suggesting that Nintendo is going to be squeezed out of the hardware business almost overnight, as Sega was.
who didn't see sega's death at least 2 years prior?

Nintendo is sitting on $6 billion in cash and carries no debt
so what's the problem?

and he says their proudly anti-technology? they're the only ones making innovative controllers for how many years? making systems that don't break after 1 year... supporting progressive scan... who cares if the cube can't play dvds...who doesn't have one now anyways? i can see how it was an issue when ps2 was released, but not now.

sure nintendo isn't the leading system, and probably never will be again, but i'm just tired of all these articles popping up that just don't make any sense. there's room for 3, i think. and in 10 years the 64 and cube are gonna look a whole lot less dated then the ps2/xbox. (look at the psx games...alot are even unplayable now)

WiseSalesman

12-11-2003, 02:50 AM

I always would have figured that the whole "console war" type of thing would have been disregarded after one got out of grade school, but I suppose I was wrong.

I fail to see who's making it a console war, unless it's the people defending nintendo. Personally, I'm ripping on Nintendo's policies as a company. I never said Sony or Microsoft were any better. If I were ripping on Capcom, would you call this a "developer war"? No, because I'm not saying "x is better than y", I'm saying "x is making some mistakes and getting themselves in trouble, I hope they turn things around before it's too late".

wtf? I've never said/posted this!
Editing someones post is even worse than harcore-ninty-fanboyism

Yeah, I know. Just my misguided attempt at humor I guess.

Can anyone tell me why "Mortal Kombat 1" hasn't got a pause-function? wtf

You know, that's a damn good question.[/quote]

hydr0x

12-11-2003, 05:29 AM

Duncan

12-11-2003, 05:50 AM

(Be warned -- this turned out to be pretty long.)

Some points to debate from the article in question...

From Time Asia:
Nintendo has suffered such a string of bad news over the past few months and posted such disappointing financial results over the past few quarters that many investors, analysts and industry watchers are wondering whether the onetime industry giant can hit restart�or at least pause�in an increasingly competitive video-game industry.

Um...where did all this bad news come from? I don't remember seeing anything but the usual trash-talk from Sony and Microsoft reps...but not actual "bad news". Granted, the GameCube hasn't been selling all that well (until recently), but then neither has the Xbox (again, until recently). Sony's current stranglehold on the market makes it tough for anyone to compete.

And I don't know that the video game industry is more competitive than it once was -- sure, there's more money to be made now, but there are still three main players on the market just like there always have been. Only the names and roles have changed over time.

From Time Asia:
Not only is Nintendo struggling to keep pace with its larger, better-funded rivals�Sony and Microsoft�in the console business, but its Game Boy division, Nintendo's previously unassailable monopoly in handheld games, is suddenly facing a host of formidable foes.

Yes, there are certainly new competitors for the Game Boy (and actually, it's about damn time). But I don't know that I'd call them "formidable" -- Nokia's N-Gage hasn't exactly flown off the shelves, and Sony's PSP is still very much a rumor until something concrete appears. There's also the Tapwave, which is a whole 'nother can of worms entirely, and the rise of cell-phone games certainly needs to be considered. But if we're talking about portable games, the first thing that the vast majority of people think of is the Game Boy. Millions of satisfied users over the past decade wouldn't have it any other way -- and they don't have to pay three-hundred bucks for the privilege.

From Time Asia:
While those reductions have boosted market share and promise to move more units during the crucial holiday weeks, they may well have an adverse effect on Nintendo's profits unless game-software sales rise dramatically too, as hardware is a low-margin (if not loss-making) business even in the best of times.

That point contradicts itself, quite a bit in fact. No, Nintendo's not going to make as much money on console sales as they once did. But this is a very old business model that makes a lot of sense, as Gillette found out long ago -- you can afford to basically give away the razors, because people will always have to keep buying the blades for it. (And if you don't understand the metaphor here, please find an easier thread to read.)

From Time Asia:
Online video games have been a false start so far, Iwata asserts, which is why he has no plans to lead Nintendo in that direction. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that, he says, will only worsen the current "nothing's new" ennui felt by many consumers.

I'm not sure if I agree with him about online console games -- it's still too early to tell, since most people don't have a fast enough connection yet to make them viable. But his point about the current state of game design is certainly valid -- yes, the Final Fantasy games (as a popular example) are pretty, but how fun is it really to constantly level-up characters in order to unlock more FMV sequences? I'm all for a good story in a game, but I like to feel like I (as the player) have had a major role in moving it along. (Which makes me wonder, what is the player's actual "role" in a supposed "role-playing game"? I may make that a separate thread... :)

From Time Asia:
What people want, Iwata says, are simpler, more accessible games that are easier to play and solve�think thumb candy for dummies.

The author makes it fairly unclear as to what Iwata actually said. My guess is that Iwata's original comment was liberally paraphrased to fit better into English, since I strongly doubt that he would have called game-players "dummies". So that's as clear as mud... x_x

From Time Asia:
Acknowledging that he cannot hope to win a technological arms race against deep-pocketed Sony and Microsoft, he says that his company's salvation is its in-house creative team and the firm's ability to launch groundbreaking games that spawn blockbuster franchises such as the hugely popular Mario Brothers and Zelda series. "Nintendo's basic strategy is to do things differently," he says. "The key lies in developing games that customers have never come across."

This is very much true -- Nintendo's consoles have never been specifically better or more advanced than their competitors. (Compare the NES and Sega Master System for a great example of this.) The difference is that Nintendo has always managed to create absolutely great games and characters no matter what the hardware was capable of. Most recently, the Nintendo 64's main asset in a world increasingly dominated by PlayStation owners was its established library of great franchises -- Mario, Link and the Pokemon crew were entirely responsible for keeping that console viable throughout its lifetime (especially since third-party developers basically had to be begged to work with the N64). The same goes for GameCube, even though its specs are at least as good as anything else on the market.

But...

From Time Asia:
Yet, for a company whose executives claim a Disney-like imaginative edge as its most important asset, the place seems to be suffering from game-development gridlock. Not even Shigeru Miyamoto, Nintendo's legendary creative director and gaming deity�Miyamoto created Mario and Zelda�has been able to break the slump. Miyamoto's latest attempt to launch a revolutionary franchise was a bizarre entry called Pikmin, in which users play an astronaut stranded on a remote planet who must enlist the aid of the local aliens (who look like ambulatory onion sprouts) to rebuild his ship�all set to a country-and-western music soundtrack. Pikmin failed to take off, forcing Nintendo to rely heavily on recycled fare such as Donkey Kong, Zelda, and Pikachu and all his Pok�mon friends.

...this is also true. Personally, I think that Nintendo relied far too much on Rare during the N64 years, which handicapped them once that company decided to become more independent. Consider that Banjo Kazooie, Donkey Kong 64 and Conker's Bad Fur Day (and maybe even Diddy Kong Racing!) are all basically the same game -- good, yes, but way too recycled. The same is also true for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark -- if you've played one, you've pretty much played the other. This is not to take anything away from these games, all of which are fun on the whole, but it's clear that Rare was simply recycling their original concepts into the ground along with Nintendo's reputation. (And their latest creation for Microsoft, Grabbed By the Ghoulies, is said to be more of the same. Which basically proves my point.)

Nintendo's own small set of releases for the system, meanwhile, stood out as being profoundly unique. Super Mario 64 was absolutely groundbreaking in terms of control and layout, having been widely copied on all systems since. The two Zelda games (Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask) are still good enough even four to six years after their release to have been reissued for the GameCube. And even the oddballs like Yoshi's Story still have their fans today -- proof that Nintendo is best when it's running the show, or at least taking a very active role in it rather than leaving everything to the third-parties.

Perhaps all that explains why Mr. Miyamoto is said to be returning to a more active role in game development these days, rather than his more recent stint as an executive producer / guru.

From Time Asia:
Failing to strike an agreement with Sony proved to be fateful, because as that company's PlayStation become more popular, Nintendo made a series of what analysts say were strategic mistakes.

It's convenient to blame all of Nintendo's troubles on that oft-mentioned breakup with Sony, isn't it? Everyone always says that if they'd just tried to work something out with the Sony megalith, Nintendo would still be on top today.

Allow me to be the first to call that a giant load of bullshit. :D

Even if Sony and Nintendo had stuck together for a while longer, Sony would have realized eventually that its technology was superior to anything else on the market at the time (save for the Saturn, which failed mainly due to Sega's over-reliance on the Genesis). Any marriage between Sony and Nintendo would have been doomed no matter how long it lasted -- Sony has never been a company that relies too strongly on the technology of others.

From Time Asia:
Because Nintendo depends far more on its own games for profits than other console makers do (it produces about 60% of its own games, compared with Sony's 20%), the company has historically treated outside game companies more like competitors than partners, requiring them to accept unfavorable licensing deals and demanding a greater editorial say in game content. Alienated by Nintendo's heavy-handed ways, coders took their products to Sony, making the PlayStation the machine of choice for most consumers in part because that's where the hit games were.

This is still a big problem for Nintendo -- they need to realize that the game software industry is larger than they think. True, Nintendo's releases tend to be the cream of the crop, but there are many other great design houses out there as well -- despite my Final Fantasy comment above, it is nice to see Square-Enix back on the Nintendo bandwagon again. In my view, Nintendo should have made a big push to partner up with Sega when they stopped building the Dreamcast, but Sega has decided to go the multi-platform route instead. And speaking of Sega...

From Time Asia:
Despite its troubles, no one is seriously suggesting that Nintendo is going to be squeezed out of the hardware business almost overnight, as Sega was. Nintendo is sitting on $6 billion in cash and carries no debt, which could provide a war chest with which to outsource a competitive next-generation hardware system. The threats to its Game Boy monopoly are, at this point, hypothetical; and it does have a core excellence in producing seductive software, which makes it (still) one of the largest game publishers in the world.

Well said.

From Time Asia with my emphasis in bold:
The key question among analysts is whether Nintendo�a company that is almost proudly antitechnology�can compete against Microsoft and Sony at a time when the industry is poised for a major transformation. Digital devices of all shapes and sizes�such as entertainment-enabled personal computers that can link up with a TV and stereo; and Web-surfing, TiVo-style video recorders�will over the next several years invade the living room. Microsoft and Sony are already selling game machines capable of connecting to the Internet, anticipating the shift to multipurpose entertainment devices. And Nintendo? Iwata recently declared that the company is already working on a revolutionary new hardware unit, but says he won't divulge any details until next spring.

So, what if I just want to play games? Yeah, DVDs and the internet are great, but I have a DVD player and a computer already. I see no need to combine both of those with what was originally supposed to be a game console. At some point, we're going to return to the same problem that plagued machines like the 3DO and CD-I: is it for games, or is it something else?

It also makes me think of the early 1980s, when everything that could potentially be used as a computer was touted as such -- think Coleco ADAM, Intellivision Computer, Imagination Machine, etc., etc. Yes, many people bought them believing that they'd use the capabilities, but most people realized from the start that these are, after all, game machines. And I believe the same is happening today -- yes, the PS2 and Xbox can play DVDs, but they'll also play Madden 2004 or the new SpongeBob game.

And so can the GameCube, without all the extra razzmatazz. Which, to me at least, is a point in its favor.

Fin. :D

YoshiM

12-11-2003, 10:05 AM

So, what if I just want to play games? Yeah, DVDs and the internet are great, but I have a DVD player and a computer already. I see no need to combine both of those with what was originally supposed to be a game console. At some point, we're going to return to the same problem that plagued machines like the 3DO and CD-I: is it for games, or is it something else?

It also makes me think of the early 1980s, when everything that could potentially be used as a computer was touted as such -- think Coleco ADAM, Intellivision Computer, Imagination Machine, etc., etc. Yes, many people bought them believing that they'd use the capabilities, but most people realized from the start that these are, after all, game machines. And I believe the same is happening today -- yes, the PS2 and Xbox can play DVDs, but they'll also play Madden 2004 or the new SpongeBob game.

And so can the GameCube, without all the extra razzmatazz. Which, to me at least, is a point in its favor.

You have to remember that when systems like the 3DO or the ADAM were introduced, the technology was pretty new for the consumers. Computers were still in their infancy in the 80's and were mysterious devices that intimidated people yet fascinated them. The computer add-ons were a way to get people to invest in the game system with the promise that it could do more than just play games. A $100 to $200 purchase on a game machine with the upgrade option was easier to swallow financially than a $600 to $1,000 purchase of a computer that the kids will "probably only use for games" (a statement I've heard a lot of back then and yeah it was mostly true). Of course those computers dropped in price as time marched on and the attachments either never happened (Atari 2600 computer attachment and the Expansion Module 3 for the Coleco) or was just abysmal (Intellivision computer add on).

When the 3DO (and the CD-i) arrived, "multimedia" was still a buzzword that the consumer didn't quite know yet. Here were devices that could play music CDs, play games, access educational software like encyclopedias and with upgrades be able to watch Video CDs. The 3DO was pretty much held back due to price more than people not knowing what it was thanks to game heavy ad campaigns. The CD-i, however, had a messy advertisement which skewed the perception of what the machine was. It also didn't help that it didn't play games all that well or had any really GOOD games and finding movies for it was fairly difficult. At the same time the people were not really ready for devices that "multitask" except for computers (which amazed people that you could listen to a CD, type a letter AND play Solitare at the same time).

Today it's different. In the realm of games CD based consoles have been offering CD playback like 1993/94. People's brains have finally wrapped around the idea of multi-function devices. Many people use their DVD players to play music. Palm computers can organize one's day, play games AND play music. Your cable box can play music channels and some can even record TV without a tape. With the introduction of the PS2 game systems could now play DVD movies. Not essential but it's still a perk for one's dollar (and the backward compatibility didn't hurt either). Nintendo comes out with a system that you can't play music CD's on, can't watch DVDs on and looks like a freakin' toy. When it came out DVD players were still in the $100 to $150 range at most places for low end. If it would have helped its starting sales is anyone's guess but personally I think it would have made them a bit more on the level with the rest of the competition.

Raedon

12-11-2003, 10:37 AM

Honestly, when someone makes a topic about XXX news article or XXX game, then someone starts another thread about it the next week, the new one is locked down and the old one is bumped. This is not news, this is restatement of fact. Re-re-re-re-restatement.

Acually the last thread I started was suppost to be a discussion of my theory of Nintendo's future.. the FANBOYS rolled in and threadjacked the damn thing with their Nintendo protection rhedoric.

This was just me posting a news article from TIME that suported my theory that I thought was post worthy (an boy is it ever!) and here come the fanboys..

This board has become a real piss poor place to post anything about Nintendo.

Raedon

12-11-2003, 10:43 AM

Yeah but she has a point. I always see you jump on the train first when it comes to Nintendo's problems (big or small).

I just have my ear on the pulse of the gaming world.. don't hate me because I post news.. Hell, I posted some bad news about the Xbox and no one gave a shyt.. in fact, people LOOOVE to hate the Xbox.

Embrace the fanboy goodness... :)

sorry raedon but this is ridiculous, yeah, you've also posted bad xbox news, but you NEVER posted anything bad about Sony, you're one of the biggest Sony fanboys on the board, and you really shouldn't expect that anyone is still taking your posts about nintendo/ms seriously, you said "no fanboys" but that's impossible if YOU start the thread

Sony has the worst graphics of the current consoles. In fact I've always felt (and posted) that the Dreamcast is stronger in power. No one remembers me ranting about Sony not putting 4 ports game ports on the ps2 way back when. I know a lot of you guys are new here but my posts go back before 2002.. I'm sorry you missed them and feel the need to call me a sony fanboy.. which I am not. I think the perfect console would be a gamecube (ATI power, 4 ports) with standard DVD drive, a Hard Drive, and Xbox's type of online user support.

digitalpress

12-11-2003, 10:49 AM

It's not YOU, Raedon - a casual glancer and fan of Nintendo WOULD see you as an anti-Nintendo campaigner but I know differently. There are some very passionate Nintendo fans here, I wish they'd just quit it already with turning everything around on the person who made the post and instead simply debate the points.

It's become so personal that I'm afraid to say ANYTHING about Nintendo here anymore, and that's really a shame given the company's history and my respect for them. But should one personal opinion or even fact slip out, I'm thinking I'd better hideout in the bomb shelter afterwards.

It sucks, and I hope it changes.

NvrMore

12-11-2003, 11:05 AM

I wish they'd just quit it already with turning everything around on the person who made the post and instead simply debate the points.

That's the point though, the points have been debated, Week after week, time and time and time again, over and over. Yet the same, bashing topics keep getting dragged up again and again because those who keep making them can't let it go and seem to have some desperate urge to drag the same crap up endlessly because the last X times it was dragged up, someone didn't agree with them.

It's like the damn theaveng FF threads all over again.

It's one thing to look for discussion on a subject but for it to be constantly regurgitated every week is just asinine.

People tried to discuss it the first X times, that's why I suggested we just copy and paste the posts from last week, or the week before or any of the other X threads instead of trying to pretend it's anything different from the last 20 identical threads.

Still, we can always hide behind the "evil fanboy" argument as a means of ignoring such matters in favor of pretending such constant "topic regurgitation" is a super and highly original source of discussion.

-_-

digitalpress

12-11-2003, 11:12 AM

NvrMore. If it's boring to you, then ignore it. If it isn't topical, no one will respond. If you disagree with it, argue the POINTS and not the PERSON. You see it as bashing because the news is bad, but it's recent and I had not seen that article before he posted it here.

I'm asking for constructive debate here, not your opinion on Raedon.

Raedon

12-11-2003, 11:13 AM

no one forces you to read and post Nvrmore.. You can just as easily ignore the Nintendo threads as I ignore that program on TV called, "queer as folk"

and using Theaveng to slander me is just not intelligent posting. It is bashing at a personal level. I don't think you want to get in a sticks and stones match with me.. I don't take well to personal insults.

NvrMore

12-11-2003, 11:36 AM

NvrMore. If it's boring to you, then ignore it. If it isn't topical, no one will respond.

Yep it bores me, but frankly, it gets damn tiresome seeing the same topic reposted weekly, usually for the sake of smiply bashing something for the sake of bashing it. There's nothing even remotly constructive about that, especially given that if someone were looking for discussion on such a matter then they would need to do little more than look at the last X threads which discussed the exact same thing little more than a week ago, maybe two at the most, especially if the past thread was also created by the poster of the current thread.

It's not seeking discussion, the discussion has already taken place in recent time and all the point's have already been discussed. Instead it's just "hey, people disagreed in the last discussion, so I'm posting it again".

If you disagree with it, argue the POINTS and not the PERSON.

The points have been argued, countless times, over the countless topics that are constanly dumped back onto the board, again and again, on a weekly basis.

And frankly, what exactly do you expect to get out of a discussion in which the author starts it off by decreeing "no fanboys". Starting a thread with a flame in the topic. Nice, real valid example of looking for balanced discussion.

Likewise, you say discuss the points and at the same time state people are too quick to take piece out of the thread itself or it's starter. They do that because they took the time to discuss the matter X times before and all the get is cry's of "fanboy" for not joining in with the bashing and they get to see the same damn thing dragged up countless times again, irrespective of the past recent discussions, because someone just want's to ignore discussion and stick straight to bashing.

C'mon, discussion involves people talking from different sides of an argument, not constantly recreating the same topic under a different guise time and time again because last time it was dragged up it's wasn't just an agreeable one sided discussion.

You see it as bashing because the news is bad

No I see it as bashing because it's just used as an excuse for bashing and dragging over the same thing all over again, topped with a side order of don't post if you disagree or you're a mean fanboy.

I'm asking for constructive debate here

Yeah, sure.

digitalpress

12-11-2003, 11:41 AM

I tried.

>> lock <<