Locked thread about Nintendo news (fanboy free)

[lendelin]

Too bad that the following thread was locked for obvious reasons.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24766

This isn't about defending or blaming N, this is about a realistic assessment of Nintendos current situation, if we like N or not is completely unimportant.

The quoted article is very good, and describes a realistic picture of Ns situation in the current console market. Nothing really new, but a great article nevertheless becasue it describes very well the plethora of Ns dilemmas. You can quibble and quabble about some minor details, but it hits the nail on the head which some of us addressed many times.

If a company like N which was ten years ago synonimous for videogame playing is in serious market situation today, then this is interesting news for the public (beyond videogame players) becasue it affects one of the economically biggest entertainment branches today.

Nothing describes Ns ambigious gaming philosophy and its translation into market strategies better than the two paraphrased quotes from Iwata:

"The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that, he says, will only worsen the current "nothing's new" ennui felt by many consumers."

"We hope to rediscover what has been lost between the introduction of video games and now."

Isn't it the other way around? Isn't it the case that gamers overall (the casual ones and the frequent ones) 'felt' the "nothing new" phenomenon when playing Super mario Sunshine, Zelda WW, or Super Monkey Ball? As much as I liked these games, they were certainly not very innovative when it comes to gameplay. No matter which goals you have, no matter which gameplay you prefer, if the consumer doesn't react to it and even a Pikmin isn't a top seller, you will fail in the long run if you ignore market trends. It seems that Ns path is a blind alley, not the path of other developers and hardware manufacturers, not the path of Star wars KOTOR, not the path of the upcoming Jade Empire, not the path of the Dvil may Cry and Onimusha.

Ns recent price rop of the GC was a successful step to stop temporarily the evil cycle 'less consoles sales-> less third party support -> inferior game library -> less console sales.' Even the recent increase of GCs sales won't change a bit about the current market situation, it was a desperate and successful attempt by N to conserve the current market situation. Ns financial situation might get worse IF the increase in hardware sales won't be accompanied by a significant increase in software sales.

I hope N will survive, because 1) the more competition the better it is for gamers (low prices and game quality), 2) Nintendo is a great developer and hardware manufacturer which wrote videogame history. N has to change it's image, and furthermore look to the future not the past when it comes to game philosophy. It wouldn't be the first time in an branche of anindustry that one of his great early major players would disappear, as the long list of early and once important car manufacturers show.

There is wishful thinking, and there are realistic situations. For all you unrealistic "defenders" of N out there, never let wishful thinking blur your realistic perception. :) I'm a supporter of N, but at the same time I have almost four times as many PS2 games than GC games which is pretty representative of the current market situation.

Sorry, Joe Santulli, about this try to circumvent your locking decision. :) BUT...I HAD to post this, the future of the game industry depends on this post. :)

[SoulBlazer]

I disagree with the lock also -- but as long as Joe's the surpreme GM here, he can do whatever he wants. :)

I did'nt get the chance to say in that thread that I just don't think Time did a good job researching and writing that article and maybe we all would have taken it more seriously if they had. The author also had too many biases of his own in there, and a serious publication like that should be bias free. (Okay, maybe I'm dreaming here. LOL )

Bottom line? Only the future can tell. Nitendo will surive -- that much is certain. What their status is in ten years, God only knows at this point. But on the same token, how do we know there won't be another crash and Sony and Microsoft will pull out of the video game market?

[digitalpress]

I don't like locking topics, but when people get bitchy - especially AT EACH OTHER - I'm going to clamp down the thread. No BZ forum, holiday stress... it's a powder keg!

And you've just added another fuse. Let's see if people can control their emotions and discuss the topic instead of their perception of others' intentions for posting in the first place.

[hezeuschrist]

N has to change it's image

Blammo, the one thing Nintendo needs to do.

It's not a bad article, but it seems to paint the picture a little bleaker than it really is. I'd be interested to see similar articles about Sony and Microsofts position in the market along with their bottom lines.

[lendelin]

I don't like locking topics, but when people get bitchy - especially AT EACH OTHER - I'm going to clamp down the thread. No BZ forum, holiday stress... it's a powder keg!

And you've just added another fuse. Let's see if people can control their emotions and discuss the topic instead of their perception of others' intentions for posting in the first place.

There will be always guys who take EVERYTHING personal and go overboard with the dumbest of arguments. My philosophy is "ignore the unsubstantiated arguments, ignore dumb personal attacks and enjoy the good reasoning others provide." Like always and also like in politics, the vast majority of people is reasonable, and the radical minority comes with the terrain.

The article is very good, not biased at all, with minor unimportant things I disagree, but overall it gives a very good analysis of Ns situation.

The general criticism of Iwata about current successful game philosophies is unfortunate, he knows better. IT's clearly the result of Ns lost market shares. If N were the market leader, and had the exact same game library as the PS2 has, he would have PRAISED the current quality of videogames. It's troublesome that (as a PR startegy) N reacts this way looking backward which reenforces their (undeserved) image as an outdated company for younger gamers. This is not the way to go. Since Iwata took over, he made some bad PR decisions. PR won't cahnge the serious situation N faces, but bad PR in a serious situation mke things slightly worse. Not good at all.

[Ed Oscuro]

When all's said and done, Raedon had a good thread and it's a shame that people managed to get it closed. It really was "fanboy free" as far as you can manage to be when people are convinced Nintendo's troubles are without end (heh). Now the personal attacks, that wasn't cool. It's one thing to criticize somebody's arguments and another to attack them, and it's apparent that many folks at these boards still don't know how to keep their cool. It's especially sad since nobody here has bad motives for posting...there's no reason that had to happen.

Stay frosty, DPers!

[SpasticFuctard]

Fanboy Free! Proud to be!

Strong Bad, I love you man.

Not for nothing, but isn't this the first time in 20 years that Nintendo has posted a loss?

20 Years.

SF - If it ain't broke, buy your stock back with cash reserves when the price dips.

[Ed Oscuro]

The article said it was the first time since Nintendo went public back in 1968 (I believe that was the year) that they posted a loss.

Still, look at the current economy. They're not doing worse as a company than Sony, and they're not losing money at the rate MS is reputed to still be losing.

[YoshiM]

Stay frosty, DPers!

"Hey Fellas!"

"Heeeya!"

"What's cooler....than bein' cool?"

"ICE COLD!"

(Sorry, couldn't resist, Outkast song's been ringing in my head the last few days)

Nintendo has to go "back to basics" but not in the area of "simple" games. They have to come out with a system that is mulit-genre. Gamecube seems to be geared more toward specific genres (like platforming) than others (like sports) based solely on the controller design. That'll be one step.

As for the article, people will always read between the lines even when nothing is there.

[WiseSalesman]

"Heeeya!"

"What's cooler....than bein' cool?"

"ICE COLD!"

alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright

Okay, now ladies.....


(and yes, that WAS the most constructive thing I could add to the thread)

[GrandAmChandler]

And we gonna break this back down in just a few seconds
Now don't have me break this thing down for nothin'

( I also do not like arguing and I hope this adds to the lightening up of the mood)

Nintendo is good
Sony is good
Microsoft is good

All in their own special ways.

This has been a pubic service announcement by GrandAmChandler

[GrandAmChandler]

And we gonna break this back down in just a few seconds
Now don't have me break this thing down for nothin'

( I also do not like arguing and I hope this adds to the lightening up of the mood)

Nintendo is good
Sony is good
Microsoft is good

All in their own special ways.

This has been a pubic service announcement by GrandAmChandler

[Raedon]

I don't like locking topics, but when people get bitchy - especially AT EACH OTHER - .

That was a one sided thing there joe, I kept it civil right up to the point the thread was locked.. If you don't bring back the BZ your going to need to bad a LOT of people, I may be one of them :P

Lets see some action.. ban Nvrmore for a month..

[Raedon]

I don't like locking topics, but when people get bitchy - especially AT EACH OTHER - .

That was a one sided thing there joe, I kept it civil right up to the point the thread was locked.. If you don't bring back the BZ your going to need to bad a LOT of people, I may be one of them :P

Lets see some action.. ban Nvrmore for a month..

[digitalpress]

I don't like locking topics, but when people get bitchy - especially AT EACH OTHER - .

That was a one sided thing there joe, I kept it civil right up to the point the thread was locked.. If you don't bring back the BZ your going to need to bad a LOT of people, I may be one of them :P

That's to be expected. Just like the "old days". Short leashes and all that.


Lets see some action.. ban Nvrmore for a month..

What has he done wrong?

[digitalpress]

I don't like locking topics, but when people get bitchy - especially AT EACH OTHER - .

That was a one sided thing there joe, I kept it civil right up to the point the thread was locked.. If you don't bring back the BZ your going to need to bad a LOT of people, I may be one of them :P

That's to be expected. Just like the "old days". Short leashes and all that.


Lets see some action.. ban Nvrmore for a month..

What has he done wrong?

[christianscott27]

what about sony? they've had a pretty rough time of it of late. their entertainment division has been a dud factory (gigli, michael jackson), they havent been able to dominate in any key tech areas besides walkmans, and thats shrinking as they failed to make a good foothold in the growing "ipod" sector. sony actually blamed a lot of their poor second quarter preformance on "weak sales of playstation2 games". despite being on top of the console pile i'd say sony has just as many leaks in their boat.

right now things are not looking too hot for the PSX or sony's upcoming handheld device, they're gambling on a strong holiday catch up quarter.

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/retirement/newswire/2003/12/07/rtr1172171.html

[christianscott27]

what about sony? they've had a pretty rough time of it of late. their entertainment division has been a dud factory (gigli, michael jackson), they havent been able to dominate in any key tech areas besides walkmans, and thats shrinking as they failed to make a good foothold in the growing "ipod" sector. sony actually blamed a lot of their poor second quarter preformance on "weak sales of playstation2 games". despite being on top of the console pile i'd say sony has just as many leaks in their boat.

right now things are not looking too hot for the PSX or sony's upcoming handheld device, they're gambling on a strong holiday catch up quarter.

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/retirement/newswire/2003/12/07/rtr1172171.html

[Half Japanese]

All I know is that we have sold THE FUCK outta some Gamecubes at the Circuit City where I work. We don't have a SINGLE Zelda bundle left. It's just a shame that there aren't a few more eye-catching games out for it (multi-platform games like NFS: Underground and SSX 3 seem to be getting a lot of attention). I think one thing that will come to bite Nintendo in the bum is their apathetic policy towards online gaming. This coming from someone who still uses dialup and could care less about online gaming for the most part. Can you imagine how many more copies of Mario Kart: DD would have sold if Nintendo had made it online-enabled? And that would require the additional purchase of a broadband adaptor, which is another $35. And remember: Sony has already proved that people WILL buy an extra adapter for other feature (see: ps2 network adaptor). I realize some tunneling services supposedly work for getting it online, but those are terribly laggy and full of assholes (based on experience with XboxConnect and Gamespy Arcade).

[Half Japanese]

All I know is that we have sold THE FUCK outta some Gamecubes at the Circuit City where I work. We don't have a SINGLE Zelda bundle left. It's just a shame that there aren't a few more eye-catching games out for it (multi-platform games like NFS: Underground and SSX 3 seem to be getting a lot of attention). I think one thing that will come to bite Nintendo in the bum is their apathetic policy towards online gaming. This coming from someone who still uses dialup and could care less about online gaming for the most part. Can you imagine how many more copies of Mario Kart: DD would have sold if Nintendo had made it online-enabled? And that would require the additional purchase of a broadband adaptor, which is another $35. And remember: Sony has already proved that people WILL buy an extra adapter for other feature (see: ps2 network adaptor). I realize some tunneling services supposedly work for getting it online, but those are terribly laggy and full of assholes (based on experience with XboxConnect and Gamespy Arcade).

[Cmosfm]

And we gonna break this back down in just a few seconds
Now don't have me break this thing down for nothin'

I wanna see ya'll on your baddest behavior
Lend me some sugar, I AM your neighbor.

Hey ya

Shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it

Sorry guys, I just had to finish it up :D

[Cmosfm]

And we gonna break this back down in just a few seconds
Now don't have me break this thing down for nothin'

I wanna see ya'll on your baddest behavior
Lend me some sugar, I AM your neighbor.

Hey ya

Shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it

Sorry guys, I just had to finish it up :D

[hydr0x]

All I know is that we have sold THE FUCK outta some Gamecubes at the Circuit City where I work. We don't have a SINGLE Zelda bundle left.

same here at my Media Markt, we are selling incredible numbers of gamecubes, ps2 and xbox have finally increased in sales during this week due to new packages (ps2 racing pack and xbox small price drop), but they are still a lot behind gc sales, every stack of MK: Double Dash we get is sold out within the same day, interestingly this is almost the same with Zelda, all the new gc-owners seem to buy a copy of Zelda, Mario Sunshine and Mario Party 4 and 5 are also selling very well. the other titles most asked for are MoH: RS, NfS Underground and Tony Hawk Underground, good-selling ones are also the games under 15?: Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Wrestlemania, Crazy Taxi and some others...

[hydr0x]

All I know is that we have sold THE FUCK outta some Gamecubes at the Circuit City where I work. We don't have a SINGLE Zelda bundle left.

same here at my Media Markt, we are selling incredible numbers of gamecubes, ps2 and xbox have finally increased in sales during this week due to new packages (ps2 racing pack and xbox small price drop), but they are still a lot behind gc sales, every stack of MK: Double Dash we get is sold out within the same day, interestingly this is almost the same with Zelda, all the new gc-owners seem to buy a copy of Zelda, Mario Sunshine and Mario Party 4 and 5 are also selling very well. the other titles most asked for are MoH: RS, NfS Underground and Tony Hawk Underground, good-selling ones are also the games under 15?: Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Wrestlemania, Crazy Taxi and some others...

[Ed Oscuro]

Stay frosty, DPers!

"Hey Fellas!"

"Heeeya!"

"What's cooler....than bein' cool?"

"ICE COLD!"

(Sorry, couldn't resist, Outkast song's been ringing in my head the last few days)

I was thinking of Aliens :) Speaking of which, does anybody here remember a rather good (for the PC, anyway) Apogee (now 3D Realms) shooter by the name of Major Stryker? While they used mostly routine bleeps and so on for sound effects, there's a line of true digitized audio -- namely, "Game over man!" from Aliens. I don't believe there was any other digitized audio -- of course, I'm talking about the shareware release, so there could've been more (interestingly enough, the Game Over clip doesn't seem to have a purpose in the shareware version) for the full version.

[Ed Oscuro]

Stay frosty, DPers!

"Hey Fellas!"

"Heeeya!"

"What's cooler....than bein' cool?"

"ICE COLD!"

(Sorry, couldn't resist, Outkast song's been ringing in my head the last few days)

I was thinking of Aliens :) Speaking of which, does anybody here remember a rather good (for the PC, anyway) Apogee (now 3D Realms) shooter by the name of Major Stryker? While they used mostly routine bleeps and so on for sound effects, there's a line of true digitized audio -- namely, "Game over man!" from Aliens. I don't believe there was any other digitized audio -- of course, I'm talking about the shareware release, so there could've been more (interestingly enough, the Game Over clip doesn't seem to have a purpose in the shareware version) for the full version.

[Duncan]

Shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it

Sorry guys, I just had to finish it up :D

Except that you didn't quite finish...

...shake it like a Polaroid picture! :ass:

Okay, that's enough, I think. :)

[Duncan]

Shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it, shake shake it, shake it

Sorry guys, I just had to finish it up :D

Except that you didn't quite finish...

...shake it like a Polaroid picture! :ass:

Okay, that's enough, I think. :)

[Stamp Mcfury]

All I know is that we have sold THE FUCK outta some Gamecubes at the Circuit City where I work. We don't have a SINGLE Zelda bundle left. It's just a shame that there aren't a few more eye-catching games out for it (multi-platform games like NFS: Underground and SSX 3 seem to be getting a lot of attention). I think one thing that will come to bite Nintendo in the bum is their apathetic policy towards online gaming. This coming from someone who still uses dialup and could care less about online gaming for the most part. Can you imagine how many more copies of Mario Kart: DD would have sold if Nintendo had made it online-enabled? And that would require the additional purchase of a broadband adaptor, which is another $35. And remember: Sony has already proved that people WILL buy an extra adapter for other feature (see: ps2 network adaptor). I realize some tunneling services supposedly work for getting it online, but those are terribly laggy and full of assholes (based on experience with XboxConnect and Gamespy Arcade).

I really disagree with Nintendo's whole stance on online games. I understand there are alot of people who just want single player games, but there is a real market out there for this. I mean its really fun to sit down and play a game with friends from a few states away.

Just like the PC you can have games that are single player games with multi player content, (IE: Half Life) games that are Full Multiplayer (Tribes) or games that are sort of both (Diablo). You can still have single player games what does it hurt to have Multi player games too?

[Stamp Mcfury]

All I know is that we have sold THE FUCK outta some Gamecubes at the Circuit City where I work. We don't have a SINGLE Zelda bundle left. It's just a shame that there aren't a few more eye-catching games out for it (multi-platform games like NFS: Underground and SSX 3 seem to be getting a lot of attention). I think one thing that will come to bite Nintendo in the bum is their apathetic policy towards online gaming. This coming from someone who still uses dialup and could care less about online gaming for the most part. Can you imagine how many more copies of Mario Kart: DD would have sold if Nintendo had made it online-enabled? And that would require the additional purchase of a broadband adaptor, which is another $35. And remember: Sony has already proved that people WILL buy an extra adapter for other feature (see: ps2 network adaptor). I realize some tunneling services supposedly work for getting it online, but those are terribly laggy and full of assholes (based on experience with XboxConnect and Gamespy Arcade).

I really disagree with Nintendo's whole stance on online games. I understand there are alot of people who just want single player games, but there is a real market out there for this. I mean its really fun to sit down and play a game with friends from a few states away.

Just like the PC you can have games that are single player games with multi player content, (IE: Half Life) games that are Full Multiplayer (Tribes) or games that are sort of both (Diablo). You can still have single player games what does it hurt to have Multi player games too?

[lendelin]

Nintendos dilemmas OR Super mario is dead!

The reason for my post about the aforementioned article is simple - it reflects not only Ns current market situation (which is a serious topic in itself), but goes much deeper into problems of changed games and a professionalized market. That's why this often adressed topic brings up emotions of uncomfortable feelings and harsh defense/blame games; at the root of this problem is something simple and painful I felt for some time now, but refused to acknowledge it: Super Mario is dead!

The article reflects a restructering of the market based on changed values and game content, a change in style of games which is dramatic. Ns (Iwatas) reaction as an intended PR strategy of a niche developer in the current situation until the next generation systems come out is short-sighted, wrong, and bundles the problems an old developer has to cope with the new trends.

Today the top-sellers aren't the Super Marios and Zeldas anymore. 2003 isn't 1990 when gamers stood in line to get a Super Mario 3. Gamers grew older, the audience widened, the competition is fierce, videogame development became more expensive and professionalized, profit rates grew and challenge the movie industry, and old game philosophies are challenged. Old style platformers died, they died slowly for the last 5 years, Jak 2 is the new platformer style which uses old gameplay elements and incorporated new gameplay elements borrowed from other successful games of other genres.

The cute game characters of the 80s and 90s were successful in their appeal to players who consisted predominantly of kids under 14, and very creative gameplay appealed to adult videogamers as well. Those times are over; they are the past, fondly embraced of older videogame players like me, but still over.

Videogames always changed, developed and headed in new directions; but the change in game content was never as dramatic as in the last five years regarding style, violence, taboo themes, movie sequences, and stories provided by professional writers. How does Iwata react to this trend in this unfortunate market situation for N? He blames the other successful games as a "blind alley," which means nothing else than the gamers who bought the successful games are wrong and N is the company which has to "recover" what has been lost."

Even as a short-term PR strategy based on a market situation which won't fundamentally change in the next two years, this is is a blind alley. N should 'recover' lost marketshares, not imagined lost gameplay of the past. Instead of blaming current game philosophies, N has to go with the trend if it will survive the console battle starting in 2005. It has to change it's image as a future oriented game developer, not present itself as a game developer of the past.

Metroid Prime was the way to go, not Zelda WW or Super Mario Sunshine. Miyamato himself, recognizing the sales figures in Japan, criticized the latter for it's lack of innovative gameplay and called it a "deluxe Super Mario 64." I'm afraid the main key of every successful console, namely a varied and deep game library, can't be build for the next console competition with a PR startegy based on Iwatas comments.

The times of Super Mario and Zelda are over if they don't get a serious facelift in style and gameplay, and so might be the times of Nintendo if they don't change and re-invent themselves. The times are over in which ONE game alone could you push ahead of the competition, there is no SNES and Street Fighter 2 anymore.

N needs an image change, they need it bad, and Iwatas comments were the wrong steps in the opposite direction. Let's face it, old-style Super Mario is dead!

[lendelin]

Nintendos dilemmas OR Super mario is dead!

The reason for my post about the aforementioned article is simple - it reflects not only Ns current market situation (which is a serious topic in itself), but goes much deeper into problems of changed games and a professionalized market. That's why this often adressed topic brings up emotions of uncomfortable feelings and harsh defense/blame games; at the root of this problem is something simple and painful I felt for some time now, but refused to acknowledge it: Super Mario is dead!

The article reflects a restructering of the market based on changed values and game content, a change in style of games which is dramatic. Ns (Iwatas) reaction as an intended PR strategy of a niche developer in the current situation until the next generation systems come out is short-sighted, wrong, and bundles the problems an old developer has to cope with the new trends.

Today the top-sellers aren't the Super Marios and Zeldas anymore. 2003 isn't 1990 when gamers stood in line to get a Super Mario 3. Gamers grew older, the audience widened, the competition is fierce, videogame development became more expensive and professionalized, profit rates grew and challenge the movie industry, and old game philosophies are challenged. Old style platformers died, they died slowly for the last 5 years, Jak 2 is the new platformer style which uses old gameplay elements and incorporated new gameplay elements borrowed from other successful games of other genres.

The cute game characters of the 80s and 90s were successful in their appeal to players who consisted predominantly of kids under 14, and very creative gameplay appealed to adult videogamers as well. Those times are over; they are the past, fondly embraced of older videogame players like me, but still over.

Videogames always changed, developed and headed in new directions; but the change in game content was never as dramatic as in the last five years regarding style, violence, taboo themes, movie sequences, and stories provided by professional writers. How does Iwata react to this trend in this unfortunate market situation for N? He blames the other successful games as a "blind alley," which means nothing else than the gamers who bought the successful games are wrong and N is the company which has to "recover" what has been lost."

Even as a short-term PR strategy based on a market situation which won't fundamentally change in the next two years, this is is a blind alley. N should 'recover' lost marketshares, not imagined lost gameplay of the past. Instead of blaming current game philosophies, N has to go with the trend if it will survive the console battle starting in 2005. It has to change it's image as a future oriented game developer, not present itself as a game developer of the past.

Metroid Prime was the way to go, not Zelda WW or Super Mario Sunshine. Miyamato himself, recognizing the sales figures in Japan, criticized the latter for it's lack of innovative gameplay and called it a "deluxe Super Mario 64." I'm afraid the main key of every successful console, namely a varied and deep game library, can't be build for the next console competition with a PR startegy based on Iwatas comments.

The times of Super Mario and Zelda are over if they don't get a serious facelift in style and gameplay, and so might be the times of Nintendo if they don't change and re-invent themselves. The times are over in which ONE game alone could you push ahead of the competition, there is no SNES and Street Fighter 2 anymore.

N needs an image change, they need it bad, and Iwatas comments were the wrong steps in the opposite direction. Let's face it, old-style Super Mario is dead!

[hezeuschrist]

It's been said before about online gaming... it's not mature enough at this time to go balls out like Microsoft did. Sure, it's nice and it's definitely a selling point, but there have been times when I've been at a buddies house and we just flat out can't find a game (on xbox live). It's nowhere near as popular as the others are touting, and for a single-market company such as Nintendo, it's not fiscally possible or profitable.

Now if they ignore online for the next round... then there are problems, and it certainly is looking that way.

[hezeuschrist]

It's been said before about online gaming... it's not mature enough at this time to go balls out like Microsoft did. Sure, it's nice and it's definitely a selling point, but there have been times when I've been at a buddies house and we just flat out can't find a game (on xbox live). It's nowhere near as popular as the others are touting, and for a single-market company such as Nintendo, it's not fiscally possible or profitable.

Now if they ignore online for the next round... then there are problems, and it certainly is looking that way.

[badinsults]

The preceding points have been debated countless times.


The point comes down to: Why does it matter?

All systems have their problems.

Nintendo has theirs with their market share in the console market.

Sony has theirs with lack of profits in other sectors which drag down the entire company. They currently have the highest selling console.

Microsoft has a console that is on par with the Gamecube in terms of sales worldwide. They have an excellent online system, but do not recieve the same third party support that Nintendo and Sony do. However, they do lose a lot of money on each Xbox sold.



In the end, with all the problems that each company, which console are you going to buy? If you are a true video game enthusiast, then your answer is quite clear: all of them if you can afford it! Of course this is not always realistic. There is no simple decision on which console is the best, because quite frankly, they are all aimed at a different audience. I am one who cares little about either an engaging online experience or spending hundreds of hours on a single game, so a Gamecube is perfect for me now.

If I want long engaging RPGs and involved sims, then the PS2 is what I want, but admittedly, I will not get one for at least a year and a half untill I have time.

I know little about the Xbox, but from what I have heard, it is the most focused on online gaiming. Since online gaiming is not something I care about, the Xbox does not interest me. But if that is what cranks your boat, then get an Xbox.

I asked for a Gamecube this Christmas. Do I regret this? In no way. Even if Nintendo were to quit now, I would still get one. Does the fact that Sega no longer produces software for the Dreamcast ever prevent someone from wanting a Dreamcast? This is due to the fact that there are several types of games that are delivered perfectly for one system, and not for others. This is why the N64 had a market in the time that the PS1 had the vast market share, and the same reason why the Xbox and Gamecube have the same market now.

So, overall, I suggest ignoring any news postings about a company that predict pure apocalypse, especially if it unwarrented. Collect for your favourite systems without thinking about whether the console will fail or not. I mean, there are people who collect for the Jaguar and 3D0, and the Gamecube is vastly superior to either system.



Sorry if thiis post was too long, and had little point. I am drunk now. I just want to say that posting about how a company is failing does not really matter in the long road to a video game collector.

[badinsults]

The preceding points have been debated countless times.


The point comes down to: Why does it matter?

All systems have their problems.

Nintendo has theirs with their market share in the console market.

Sony has theirs with lack of profits in other sectors which drag down the entire company. They currently have the highest selling console.

Microsoft has a console that is on par with the Gamecube in terms of sales worldwide. They have an excellent online system, but do not recieve the same third party support that Nintendo and Sony do. However, they do lose a lot of money on each Xbox sold.



In the end, with all the problems that each company, which console are you going to buy? If you are a true video game enthusiast, then your answer is quite clear: all of them if you can afford it! Of course this is not always realistic. There is no simple decision on which console is the best, because quite frankly, they are all aimed at a different audience. I am one who cares little about either an engaging online experience or spending hundreds of hours on a single game, so a Gamecube is perfect for me now.

If I want long engaging RPGs and involved sims, then the PS2 is what I want, but admittedly, I will not get one for at least a year and a half untill I have time.

I know little about the Xbox, but from what I have heard, it is the most focused on online gaiming. Since online gaiming is not something I care about, the Xbox does not interest me. But if that is what cranks your boat, then get an Xbox.

I asked for a Gamecube this Christmas. Do I regret this? In no way. Even if Nintendo were to quit now, I would still get one. Does the fact that Sega no longer produces software for the Dreamcast ever prevent someone from wanting a Dreamcast? This is due to the fact that there are several types of games that are delivered perfectly for one system, and not for others. This is why the N64 had a market in the time that the PS1 had the vast market share, and the same reason why the Xbox and Gamecube have the same market now.

So, overall, I suggest ignoring any news postings about a company that predict pure apocalypse, especially if it unwarrented. Collect for your favourite systems without thinking about whether the console will fail or not. I mean, there are people who collect for the Jaguar and 3D0, and the Gamecube is vastly superior to either system.



Sorry if thiis post was too long, and had little point. I am drunk now. I just want to say that posting about how a company is failing does not really matter in the long road to a video game collector.

[Radio]

I SACRIFICE MYSELF FOR THE CAUSE OF N

p.s. Tahoma looks ugly.

[Radio]

I SACRIFICE MYSELF FOR THE CAUSE OF N

p.s. Tahoma looks ugly.

[Duncan]

Sorry if thiis post was too long, and had little point. I am drunk now. I just want to say that posting about how a company is failing does not really matter in the long road to a video game collector.

Many points well made, actually. :cheers:

And I will probably end up owning a Dreamcast at least before the end of January (if not by the end of this month). :) It'll go along with my GameCube and Master System in the collection of "consoles that didn't follow the rules".

And then I'll buy a bunch of Lynx games, probably. Know why? Because I just like video games for the fun of it -- not because I have a duty to defend the honor of a certain brand or company. I play my Genesis just as much as my recently acquired SNES these days, and California Games -- the only Lynx game I own -- gets at least as much play time as anything I own for the GBA.

And I've been meaning to get a Game Gear for quite a while now, too...and whenever Nintendo's successor to the Cube arrives, I'll probably buy that as well. And I'll buy it because, in the end, I just want to have fun with things during my short time on earth.

Be they made by Nintendo, Sega, Honda, Tokyopop, Warner Music, etc., etc. It goes to the root of collecting: Buy what you like and can afford, and then you'll never need to know what the value is.

Rambling and incoherent, yes, but I'm running on about two hours of sleep here. And with that, I'm going to bed. -_-

[Duncan]

Sorry if thiis post was too long, and had little point. I am drunk now. I just want to say that posting about how a company is failing does not really matter in the long road to a video game collector.

Many points well made, actually. :cheers:

And I will probably end up owning a Dreamcast at least before the end of January (if not by the end of this month). :) It'll go along with my GameCube and Master System in the collection of "consoles that didn't follow the rules".

And then I'll buy a bunch of Lynx games, probably. Know why? Because I just like video games for the fun of it -- not because I have a duty to defend the honor of a certain brand or company. I play my Genesis just as much as my recently acquired SNES these days, and California Games -- the only Lynx game I own -- gets at least as much play time as anything I own for the GBA.

And I've been meaning to get a Game Gear for quite a while now, too...and whenever Nintendo's successor to the Cube arrives, I'll probably buy that as well. And I'll buy it because, in the end, I just want to have fun with things during my short time on earth.

Be they made by Nintendo, Sega, Honda, Tokyopop, Warner Music, etc., etc. It goes to the root of collecting: Buy what you like and can afford, and then you'll never need to know what the value is.

Rambling and incoherent, yes, but I'm running on about two hours of sleep here. And with that, I'm going to bed. -_-

[Radio]

Happy games are the spawn of satan. I am emo.

[Radio]

Happy games are the spawn of satan. I am emo.

[Iron Draggon]

Well let's face it, sooner or later they're all gonna be old news. And to say that won't be true for so-and-so because blah-blah-blah is simply naive. In the beginning there was Atari. They ruled the roost even after Intellivision arrived with better graphics and better games because by then Atari was a household name. People didn't play videogames, they played Atari, much like people didn't play videogames, they played Nintendo, back in the 8 bit days.

And what is Atari synonymous with now? Mostly providing tech support for abandonware, and trying to spruce up their image by re-releasing it under their own label. Not that they aren't doing a fantastic job of it, but is this really where you expected them to be today, 20 years ago? Not hardly.

And what happened to Mattel Electronics? Somehow Intellivision was never able to defeat the mighty Atari brand in the console arena, but for a long time they were dominating the handheld market, and then what happened?

Oh yeah, that's right, Coleco came along and beat them at their own game, and then proceeded to go after the mighty Atari as well, by entering the console market with Colecovision, which BTW just happened to play 2600 carts too. Atari's response was the 5200, which didn't play 2600 carts, and thus began the beginning of the end for Atari's prominence in the industry.

CRASH!

Enter Nintendo a few years later with the NES, and miraculously the industry is single-handedly revived by a company that simply recognized what Atari's mistakes were, and vowed to not repeat them. Sega tries to cash in with the SMS, and Atari tries to find it's groove again with the 7800. Soon, Sega realizes that Nintendo is the new Atari, and Atari can't deny this fact either.

Next, NEC arrives with little fanfare, and Sega vows to do exactly what NEC is clearly trying to do, but without going about it the wrong way. The 16 bit era officially arrives, but doesn't quite catch on until a rebel hedgehog shows up and practically steals the show overnight. Nintendo tries to ignore the obvious for a while, but soon realizes that Sega is no NEC, and the SNES is born. Ah, the golden age has finally arrived, with Sega & Nintendo in a tie.

But what's this? Sega is still pulling into the lead, while Nintendo is still trying to maintain the wholesome family image that it developed with the NES. So eventually Nintendo wises up and starts fighting fire with fire, and the two big guns end up in a tie again. 3DO arrives with the right idea but the wrong price, and Sega vows to do what it did when NEC showed up. Meanwhile, Nintendo has had to do alot of growing up because of Sega, so they begin negotiations with Sony to do the same thing that Sega is about to do also.

For whatever reason, the deal with Sony falls through, Atari tries to jump the gun on everybody by skipping ahead to 64 when they're supposed to be on 32, Sony becomes intrigued by Sega and vows to dominate the 32 bit wars, and Nintendo becomes intrigued by Atari and skips ahead to 64 bit also.

Then Sony makes good on it's promise and quickly forces Sega to skip ahead to 128, while Atari & Nintendo both wish that they had been smart enough to abandon the cartridge format like everyone else did. Soon, Sony forces Sega out of the hardware industry entirely when it debuts it's own 128 bit system, Nintendo realizes that it made some mistakes and wisely abandons the cartridge format when it enters the 128 bit wars, and Microsoft wants in on the action because now the consoles are powerful enough that they're taking huge chunks out of the previously unphased PC gaming market too!

So here we are today, and Sony is the new Atari now. The PS3 will surely dominate the market on brand recognition alone, just as the PS1 & PS2 did before it, and Microsoft will probably be the only real competition they have, purely because they're the only other company in the industry with enough money to even try to compete with Sony. Whether or not they'll be able to pose a serious threat remains to be seen, but Nintendo is clearly on the way out, just as Atari was so many years ago. Of course they'll refuse to die, just like Atari did, but they would be wise to follow Sega's lead and get out of the hardware business while they can still afford to compete in the software business. The time has now come for the changing of the guards once again.

So, hang on for the 256 bit wars, that's what I say. The 128 bit battles are already irrelevant, because Sony is so far ahead that the only hope anyone has of catching up and possibly defeating them is to beat them to market with the next round of ammunition. That's how Sega stayed on top for years, and that's how Sony is staying on top now. You'd have to be a fool not to see it, and yet some fools don't want to see it, so let them keep the faith, if that's what they wanna do, but the 128 bit wars are already over!

[Iron Draggon]

Well let's face it, sooner or later they're all gonna be old news. And to say that won't be true for so-and-so because blah-blah-blah is simply naive. In the beginning there was Atari. They ruled the roost even after Intellivision arrived with better graphics and better games because by then Atari was a household name. People didn't play videogames, they played Atari, much like people didn't play videogames, they played Nintendo, back in the 8 bit days.

And what is Atari synonymous with now? Mostly providing tech support for abandonware, and trying to spruce up their image by re-releasing it under their own label. Not that they aren't doing a fantastic job of it, but is this really where you expected them to be today, 20 years ago? Not hardly.

And what happened to Mattel Electronics? Somehow Intellivision was never able to defeat the mighty Atari brand in the console arena, but for a long time they were dominating the handheld market, and then what happened?

Oh yeah, that's right, Coleco came along and beat them at their own game, and then proceeded to go after the mighty Atari as well, by entering the console market with Colecovision, which BTW just happened to play 2600 carts too. Atari's response was the 5200, which didn't play 2600 carts, and thus began the beginning of the end for Atari's prominence in the industry.

CRASH!

Enter Nintendo a few years later with the NES, and miraculously the industry is single-handedly revived by a company that simply recognized what Atari's mistakes were, and vowed to not repeat them. Sega tries to cash in with the SMS, and Atari tries to find it's groove again with the 7800. Soon, Sega realizes that Nintendo is the new Atari, and Atari can't deny this fact either.

Next, NEC arrives with little fanfare, and Sega vows to do exactly what NEC is clearly trying to do, but without going about it the wrong way. The 16 bit era officially arrives, but doesn't quite catch on until a rebel hedgehog shows up and practically steals the show overnight. Nintendo tries to ignore the obvious for a while, but soon realizes that Sega is no NEC, and the SNES is born. Ah, the golden age has finally arrived, with Sega & Nintendo in a tie.

But what's this? Sega is still pulling into the lead, while Nintendo is still trying to maintain the wholesome family image that it developed with the NES. So eventually Nintendo wises up and starts fighting fire with fire, and the two big guns end up in a tie again. 3DO arrives with the right idea but the wrong price, and Sega vows to do what it did when NEC showed up. Meanwhile, Nintendo has had to do alot of growing up because of Sega, so they begin negotiations with Sony to do the same thing that Sega is about to do also.

For whatever reason, the deal with Sony falls through, Atari tries to jump the gun on everybody by skipping ahead to 64 when they're supposed to be on 32, Sony becomes intrigued by Sega and vows to dominate the 32 bit wars, and Nintendo becomes intrigued by Atari and skips ahead to 64 bit also.

Then Sony makes good on it's promise and quickly forces Sega to skip ahead to 128, while Atari & Nintendo both wish that they had been smart enough to abandon the cartridge format like everyone else did. Soon, Sony forces Sega out of the hardware industry entirely when it debuts it's own 128 bit system, Nintendo realizes that it made some mistakes and wisely abandons the cartridge format when it enters the 128 bit wars, and Microsoft wants in on the action because now the consoles are powerful enough that they're taking huge chunks out of the previously unphased PC gaming market too!

So here we are today, and Sony is the new Atari now. The PS3 will surely dominate the market on brand recognition alone, just as the PS1 & PS2 did before it, and Microsoft will probably be the only real competition they have, purely because they're the only other company in the industry with enough money to even try to compete with Sony. Whether or not they'll be able to pose a serious threat remains to be seen, but Nintendo is clearly on the way out, just as Atari was so many years ago. Of course they'll refuse to die, just like Atari did, but they would be wise to follow Sega's lead and get out of the hardware business while they can still afford to compete in the software business. The time has now come for the changing of the guards once again.

So, hang on for the 256 bit wars, that's what I say. The 128 bit battles are already irrelevant, because Sony is so far ahead that the only hope anyone has of catching up and possibly defeating them is to beat them to market with the next round of ammunition. That's how Sega stayed on top for years, and that's how Sony is staying on top now. You'd have to be a fool not to see it, and yet some fools don't want to see it, so let them keep the faith, if that's what they wanna do, but the 128 bit wars are already over!