New PC: Build or Buy?

[ianoid]

As a new gadget, I'm thinking of getting a new pc.

What you guys think, build or buy?

Looking at Dell's (reconditioned) and HP's sites, a pumping setup can be had for reasonable amounts.

I noticed that boutique setups (like alienware and voodoo- fanless computer very interesting) are REALLY expensive. Like twices as expensive.

Alternatively, I could consider someting I JUST don't have the time for- building a setup. I'd love a slick glamourous case and some cusomtization for a nice graphics card.

And no, freakazoid, a mac is not an option. This computer is for ME not my wife.

-ian

[maxlords]

Have one custom built by a local store. Super cheap, you get exactly what you want, don't have to waste the time doing it yourself. If you have a local PC store you trust, that's the best option IMO. Just make sure they don't decide to install the software for you..that's always way too expensive.

I think I paid a whopping $450 (maybe less) for my 2Ghz Celeron system w/256 Megs of RAM, DVD, CDR, onboard video nice case, etc. I'm buying a new graphics card for it, but overall...very inexpensive.

[Drexel923]

Build it...for the amount of money I would have paid Dell, I built myself a PC at least 2X better. Now I didn't exactly do it without some help, so if you don't really know what your doing...like me...then you might want to do what maxlords said. A good place to get started for parts is newegg.com, they have a pretty big selection and the prices aren't bad.

[Raedon]

It takes me 20 minutes to build a computer from scratch now. My first build took 2 hours..

Want to keep your system on the top with little cash? learn to build because you will be doing it every year for the next 30-50 years.

[sniperCCJVQ]

Built it.

Less trouble, you got exactly what you want and can go directly to the shop if something doesnt work or your'e not happy with.

[Sylentwulf]

Building it has SO many advantages. You know what's in there. You'll know how and what to change down the road when you want to upgrade or if something goes wrong. You'll save a LOT of money AND get better components.

If you REALLY don't wanna build - Dell IS the way to go for Value/Quality ratio. Consumer reports, various magazines, and internet sources should all confirm this.

[Sylentwulf]

Also - You know EVERYONE on this board who has built a computer will be glad to help you pick components/compare prices, and help with the building questions ;) Hell, we'll FORCE the help down your friggin throat.

[GameGuru]

What is your budget?

[NoahsMyBro]

Well, I prefer to build them, and usually do.

BUT, in my opinion, if you include the cost of a legal copy of Windows in the budget, it is always less expensive to buy a new system than to build your own. Add in a legal copy of MS Office and it's not even close.

If you buy a system, I strongly recommend Dell, as has been suggested above.

If you build, you can choose the exact components you want. I also use NewEgg.com, and have been perfectly satisfied with them. Since last July I've built 7 or 8 systems, ordering from them each time.

The most expensive system I built in that time-frame totalled, I think, about $1200. The least expensive (no Windows or Office software on it) was around $450. On every single one, I used the Antec SLK3700AMB case - it is the highest quality case I've ever worked with, fairly inexpensive, and reasonable to look at.

Of course, none of these were gaming PCs, so they all had the least expensive video cards I could get, but that aside they've been terrific.

I've even printed up my own custom logo on glossy photo paper, and tape it to the case-badge indentation!

Have fun!

[Flack]

My dad just bought a 2.4 ghz Dell for $319. Came with a CDR drive and a few other goodies. Had to add RAM (only came with 128).

I can't build one for that price.

[SoulBlazer]

The advice others said is good. Depending on what you want to use the PC for and how much experience you have, it's sometimes a lot better to buy a system as opposed to making it. Just look at costs and what you want it for. And yes, Newegg is the way to go if you build one.

[calthaer]

Just about any Dell will come with a crappy GeForce MX or FX card which is a cheap substitute for something with power. It will run any 3D game you want - as long as it was released before 2000.

Build your own PC - then you'll be playing with power!

[Arcade Antics]

Sir Ianoid: just wanted to toss out my two zenny regarding Dell. I would never, ever do business with them again. Their "customer service" is the worst I've ever dealt with, and they have a nasty habit of selling "name brand" components that are actually generic Dell components. That way, e.g.. when you're looking for drivers for your sound card, video card, etc., you won't be able to install them, because what they claimed was a SoundBlaster card is a generic piece of crap. You can run a quick search for problems on their "message board" as well for millions of similar experiences.

In short, "Dude, DON'T get a Dell."

</rant>

[sisko]

Depends, do you want to run Windows or Linux/Unix?

Linux/Unix = build it yourself.

Windows = Buy from Gateway or Dell.

The PC may be cheaper to build, but software costs a TON of money and will easily and up costing just as much or more than a prebuilt custom. (XP alone costs $200).

[Sylentwulf]

XP Costs $100 as long as you have ANY previous version of windows ANYWHERE in your house. Anything else, well.... Kazaa.

[Raedon]

Dell is for old people who think that the computer case is the Hard Drive.. seriously..

When I get to work I read www.hardocp.com and toms harware instead of CNN.com like most office peeps. I just love the tech of computers and have ever sense I got a Commodore 64.. I have found that a driving force in me moving up in my career to make more money is because I want to keep up with computer tech...

..and Video Games.. :D

[Raedon]

XP Costs $100 as long as you have ANY previous version of windows ANYWHERE in your house. Anything else, well.... Kazaa.

XP pro upgrade costs under $70 if you are a student or part of a non-profit org..


or you can just download it for free and get the XP keygen program that makes XP and office keys that MS thinks are lagit.

[sisko]

XP Costs $100 as long as you have ANY previous version of windows ANYWHERE in your house. Anything else, well.... Kazaa.

XP pro upgrade costs under $70 if you are a student or part of a non-profit org..


or you can just download it for free and get the XP keygen program that makes XP and office keys that MS thinks are lagit.

True, the upgrade only costs $99. The whole thing is $199.

I would be pretty wary about using a pirated OS. At least, I would be on a computer that you plan on connecting to the internet.

[Raedon]

I would be pretty wary about using a pirated OS. At least, I would be on a computer that you plan on connecting to the internet.

Use Linux then.. Last MS software I paid for was DOS 5.X..

[retrogmr]

Ian, considering where you live, I would vote for build (heck, one trip to Fry's Electronics in Concord when they open and you're sitting pretty)... but there is the time consuming part of getting all the software, putting the thing together, and hoping you didn't flip an IDE or SATA cable somewhere before you flip the switch. If you want a rig for gaming, this is going to be the best way to go, but certainly not the cheapest.

One of the other things to consider when thinking about a speciaty rig like an Alienware or Voodoo is the KILLER TECH SUPPORT. Also, Voodoo offers an "upgrade assurance" plan as part of your purchase... IIRC, it basically means they'll sell you new components at cost for the duration of your plan.

All that being said, time is money. You might want to jog down to CompUSA and check out one of the higher-end consumer HP systems... there tends to be a little less "cheap generic crap components" in them, and they're a lot more friendly to upgrades.

Did that sufficiently NOT answer your question?

[ianoid]

Juicy bits you lot. I'm tempted to go many ways with this.

The Windows XP cost (not pirating my OS, thank you) is major. I could build a sweet rig for $500 and then have to fork over another $200 for XP Pro which will only set me back like $60 on top of a mail order box.

@ArcadeAntics: Wow, Dell hater. I just bought a reconditioned laptop from them- about 2 months ago. I hope I get away with it.

Problem is, the stuff by HP and Dell is pretty darn cheap, but (despite extensive customization options) one size fits all. I'll check out your egg and probably follow consensus and try to build one.

[YoshiM]

Usually when it comes to buying from places like Dell, you get what you pay for. If you are looking for an office use style PC with no frills and no real mode of expandability, then go Dell or Gateway. If you want to use it for gaming but don't wanna pay a lot-build it. Especially go that route if you are upgrading your current setup. Yank the parts you need (like hard drive, CD, video, etc.) from the old machine and slap into a barebones. I'm currently breaking in my wife and mine Christmas gift: an Athlon 2200+ 512 MB Nforce 2 blue case with lights for $260 with shipping from NewEgg.com.

The only thing your pocket book gets raped on is software. By buying the software separately you sometimes pay as much or more than a prebuilt machine but on the plus side you KNOW what your machine has. Again with upgrades/replacements it's cheaper as you are probably going to use your existing software.

Anyway, if you are going to build, go to www.newegg.com. Great prices and great service.

[brykasch]

I think you should biuld as well, yes Dell can be cheap, and has decent service as well, but when you build your own you know all the ins and outs, as opposed to a tech guy outsourced from india reading a manual (no I am not being rude this happened when I was getting support from Dell on my sisters PC, and was no help)

I built my First one after my horrible Packard Bell experience (circa 96 combo modem/soundcard yikes). Anyways when you upgrade you tend to keep alot of stuff so you save money. I am fixing to replace my Athlon 950 at the moment.

I am keeping my 2 75 gig drives, my aiw 8500, my dvd burner, dvd drive, network cards, modem, etc. All I have to buy is case w/ ps, memory, processor, and motherboard.

As far as os goes, keep your eye out for things, liek the go pro program ms had, I got my xp pro for 50, and attended a seminar recently and got office 2003 for free, and only paid 20 for my office xp through the ms retailer program. Or look out for oem deals newegg has xp pro sp1 for 150 with any purchase of hardware, and you can always find people selling os's (legal)

ANd remember with cheap dells you get no video thats worth a damn either

[nesuser2]

check out newegg.com for parts. I've built several computers from the parts there. and while you may be able to find some good deals elsewhere on other components. It's usually not worth the shipping hastle. You can get a whole computer sent to you from newegg for $60, which is Fedex 2nd Day. And as far as monitor. I would recommend a 19" from sam's club. I think mine is a 19" samsung from there.....$180 or something like that. roughly $200 with tax or you could get a 17" for $100 at sam's or walmart or just about any store that would carry one but Sam's club is where i've bought all my monitors.

And my 2 cents on quantity pc's. Dell, HP, yadda yadda yadda.......it's all crap. I bought a laptop from HP because I've liked HP for many years and compaq gets my highest reguards too. Yes, I'm aware it's the same. Compaq gave me very good customer support on my 486 I bought in 7th grade...that was my beginnings and it was a very old, dusty piece of equipment and they backed it still. Dell, on the other hand, I haven't dealt with, period. My friend did have to call customer support one time and they told him they wouldn't talk to him even though everything was still under warranty and he still had tech support paid for, for quite some time yet. Their reason being that he had changed OS's.....from ME to XP pro, bad excuse IMHO. So anyways, I wouldn't pay some local shop to do it. All the ones around here are total rip off's. I built a computer for my friend for $20 and I will be the first to say that it's NOT easy. It's not hard but it is definitly not easy. Assembly is by far the easiest part. Making everything sing together gets trickier with every new piece of technology. The old P3's and on back were simple, if you had the parts in there.....everything was plug and play. Now you have to be a CPA(Cmos Programming Admin LOL ) to get it all done. But it is doable, just get the parts.....build it and have it set up so you can turn it on.....find your errors, and hop on your old computer and snap up a web page with others who have had similar problems. For this very reason, don't buy the newest piece of equipment. Make sure it's been out for a couple of months atleast, otherwise you pay through the nose as well as being the first to own something and experience it's problems. AND, there is a chance that everything will just work. I've come not to expect and, and with all 3 of my last PC build. I can honestly say that you must find a good power supply, if one is included with the case....pitch it :roll: The past 3 computers would screw up out of nowhere for this reason. You get the OS going good for a couple of days in one instance and the other would only last 2 hours or so. You fiddle with it to fix it, and it comes right back. Losing drivers, freezing up, not finding peripherals, etc....and the reason on all was because of the power supply. I bought Thermaltake power supplies to replace all of them, and if your case includes one...take it out and hold a $40 power supply in your left hand and the one included with the case in your right.......the $40 PS will usually weight atleast 4x more.

And finally, just for giggles, and less details. My last 3 builds were:

P4 2.4ghz, cdrw, dvd, 80gb, 512mb ram pc2700, neon lit case, other odds and ends....19" monitor $900 total

athlon xp2400+, 512mb pc3200,cdrw, 80gb, case with neon fan, all onboard components(ASUS)(to save money, i know there are dangers) for $650 total

Athlon xp2400+, 512mb pc3200, chieftec case, ati radeon 9000, asus a7n8x deluxe(something like that) 17" monitor, 6 pc. speaker system, cdrw, dvd, 80gb.....other random stuff for just under $1000

some of the information might look a little funny because it's been a while and i'm rusty on remembering parts that aren't mine but it's the best I can do. Chances are as well, that if you can get it built...you can start a post and tell all the specs and your problems and we can all help you fine tune it. and no, I don't pay for OS's....it's ridiculous, last one I bought was XP home for $99 or something like that....what a waste..

[whoisKeel]

1) first off, if you do build...buy an OEM version of winxp...you can get a licence for $80-90 easily (Pro edition NOT upgrade)...so what if you don't get a pretty box and pretty cd...anyone who pays $200 for an OS is crazy. Actually go OEM on everything, except maybe the cpu if you want the fan included. You can pretty much save half on most components going the oem route, although your manual may be .pdf instead of a hardcopy.

2) http://www.pricewatch.com/ is your friend.

3) Use your old parts. Do you really need a new floppy/mouse/keyboard/speakers/case/monitor/cdrom drive/soundcard?

4) Ask yourself what brand/make motherboard is included with a dell pc? This IS the most important part of a pc. Bad motherboards are unstable and incompatible. DO NOT skimp out on your mobo. Some good brands are asus, abit, msi and gigabyte.

5) Actually i think dell is the exception here, but don't get a pc with nothing but a system restore disk and no winxp cd. you'll get all kinds of uselsess software eating away at your memory...sure you can uninstall and msconfig all you want, but your registry will always be a mess.

6) Do your research. Read reviews.

and putting a pc together does not take long at all, even your first time you'll spend just one evening.

[nesuser2]

1) first off, if you do build...buy an OEM version of winxp...you can get a licence for $80-90 easily (Pro edition NOT upgrade)...

I would like to add to this by saying that it's not very nice on your pocket to spend money for nothing. I did a clean install(twice) of the XP pro upgrade. just run smart drive, which can be found on your PC already...and it thinks it's running a previous OS. I'm sure you already have OS's but don't upgrade anything ever. talk about a jumbled mess, but at the same time.....if you buy a full version instead of upgrade, as i mentioned, you're burning dollars, IMO...

[WiseSalesman]

I bought my first computer two and a half years ago, and it's still the only one I've owned. I went Gateway because, at the time, it was the absolute cheapest way I could go for what I needed. If I ever start my system from scratch, I'm building one, but just because I want to be able to say i did it. I know more than enough about the hardware (I used to build family computers all the time when it wasn't coming out of my wallet), and the PC will perform much better than this one.

That said, I've had no major problems with my Gateway PC, and neither have my two friends who bought from them the same year, and any minor ones I've had were remedied quickly and effectively. If you go prebuilt, I reccomend Gateway. I've heard WAY too many horror stories about Dell.

[chrisballer]

You can also check out tigerdirect.com they have some real good stuff and some decent deals. I really like this site for building or complete systems they have systemax systems for good prices and refurbished stuff.

[sisko]

I highly recommend avoiding proprietary kits.

ESPECIALLY HP and Compaq.

[NoahsMyBro]

Just to throw in another $0.02 here -
I'd say avoid Compaq. I'd go with almost anybody before them - diy support resources on Compaq are laughable. I've got a dead old Presario at home that was given to me. The ONLY driver I found online for it was for the modem. I've consistently found it very hard to find files/information necessary to fix Compaq systems.

EXAMPLE:
The system had a dead hdd. Wanting to try and get the system to be EXACTLY as it had come from the factory, I actually ordered a new system restore CD form Compaq, for $10 +S&H. I've put in several different hard drives in the box, and I've never gotten the machine to successfully complete the restore. I haven't touched it in a while, but I think the machine won't even successfully format a drive without hanging. I even found a 2gig drive to use, as the original was a 2gig drive. Still no luck. Their phone support was no help at all.

Also, as for Tiger Direct - They are better than anybody else I've ever seen at screwing their customers. They somehow manage to come up with the most enticing offers, somehow getting me to ignore my misgivings and give them one more chance. 3 Times I've ordered something from them, and 3 times I've been screwed. The delivered product is always 'not quite' as described, and it's never a big enough problem to deal with the hassle. They make me feel like a moron, as I saw it coming every time. I no longer even look at their catalogs. I recommend staying far away from them too.

[nesuser2]

EXAMPLE:
The system had a dead hdd. Wanting to try and get the system to be EXACTLY as it had come from the factory, I actually ordered a new system restore CD form Compaq, for $10 +S&H. I've put in several different hard drives in the box, and I've never gotten the machine to successfully complete the restore. I haven't touched it in a while, but I think the machine won't even successfully format a drive without hanging. I even found a 2gig drive to use, as the original was a 2gig drive. Still no luck. Their phone support was no help at all.


Just out of curiousity. Have you ever wondered if maybe your HD isn't the problem. If a new HDD won't fix the problem, then obviously that wasn't your problem. It doesn't make any sense how it won't get through the restore or format, is it overheating? try putting a new power supply in it? You really shouldn't bash compaq that much, i'm sure they're more than willing to talk to you but they aren't going to fix something for you over the phone. That's not wise company dollars. and I'm not trying to be a big jerk here either......

Have you dealt with any websites or businesses that were good? I don't care much for tiger direct either but I don't see how you could have 3 problems with them....but I will take your word. So, where have you shopped that brought good results?

[NoahsMyBro]

(NOTE: I'm responding here to NESUSER's post at 11:31am. While composing the response, I needed to leave my desk - any further responses I haven't seen yet.)

I believe there is something either wrong, or proprietary, with the Presario's BIOS, preventing me from using standard tools and standard hard drives in the box. I used several different drives, with the same results. Some new, some used, some large, some not so large (6g), one was a 2gig in case the BIOS couldn't work with larger than 2g drives. EVERY SINGLE time I run the Compaq System Restore CD I bought, the machine locks up at 77% done.

I said before I have had consistently good experiences with Dell - I only neglected to mention it this time as it had already been said in this thread repeatedly, by myself and others, and I wanted to avoid this thread becoming a religious battle/flamewar.

To recap the points I tried to express here, all in my opinion, of course:

* Buying pre-built is cheaper than self-built, if you compare apples-to-apples. This means you include the cost of OS, software, etc.. Note that a Microsoft Windows/Office license that was originally supplied with a prebuilt PC is licensed ONLY for that machine. Using it on a different PC, or as the basis for an upgrade on a different PC is not legal. I'm not discussing morality or ethics, just the actual legality of the action.

* If you go pre-built, I recommend Dell.

* If money/knowledge/skill/time isn't an issue, I recommend you build your own PC.

[nesuser2]

well, i was trying to point out a few things without getting a battle started. and I think you helped me NOT start it. and before I drag this off topic any more than I already have. I'm just going to say that you should check into the bios a little more, alot of compaq's used to have the BIOS on the hard drive. I know in my case when this happened, I either never fixed it or what I did need to fix, I could download a small file to place on the hard disk and it should be fixed as far as possible at that point. If the system is locking up, I really suggest trying another power supply if you can find another that you know works. I could be way off base by my guesses but maybe it will get you somewhere.

[ianoid]

Oh, man what a bottle of worms! A whole new piece of pie!

Anyway, I've been looking around at the parts sites (newegg.com was new to me) and it's pretty fascinating. Frankly I haven't gotten past case selection. I'm about this close to just going for an expensive one (the Cooler Master Wave Master is around $150).

Without going full bore tacky monster gamer case, any recommendations on the hardware front- cases, processors (don't need to spend THAT much on that stuff- but it's Athlon XP vs Athlon64 (doubt this one- too expensive) vs P4. And then is it worth it to buy fast RAM?

I'm not doing the super powered game rig, but I would like something that will play games released in the next six months ok should I decide to indulge.

ian

[NoahsMyBro]

A few hardware recommendations:

CPU: Get the RETAIL box, not OEM. It will run slightly higher, but you are guaranteed the fan/heatsink/thermal paste solution meets Intel or AMD's requirements.

CASE: As I mentioned above, I like the Antec SLK3700AMB . It is a very good, solid, high-quality case with a quality power supply included. It's a dream to work on. It's not terribly flashy and not the best-looking case you can find. It's also not portable. But if you don't care about lugging it to LAN parties every weekend, and if you don't care about it being a head-turner, it's a good case.

RAM: I almost always order my RAM from Crucial.com - the prices are always reasonable, they have terrific product selectors, and they include free 2-day shipping.

I don't really do PC Gaming, so I can't give you any recommendations on the other components.

Have fun building your system! Honestly, the fun has already begun - browsing the various sites and figuring out what you want is always fun, as is the anticipation waiting for the parts to arrive.

[Sylentwulf]

Hey, if you're going to spend that much on a case, you NEED to check out the new model thermaltake Xaser III cases. I have the last model they put out, and it's friggin AWESOME. The new model adds even MORE bells and whistles, and it's just about THE best case you can get, it's also around $110-$150.

[ianoid]

Thanks for all your advice guys. I just spent a crapload putting together most of the setup from newegg and I had to get the case from mwave.

It wasn't cheap, but clearly a similar setup would have cost me at least $500 more from a major manu.

I spent a crapload of time with tomshardware.com (thanks for that recommendation as well) figuring out stuff like power supplies and motherboards.

Since it's my first setup I'll probably still get it all in the mail and be missing a critical piece.

What I got:
(from newegg- boring stuff left out)
SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY w/1394 % 1 $51.00
Would have loved an Audigy 2 but don't really need it.

CPU AMD|2700 /333 ATHLON XP RTL 1 $121.00
Thoroughbred core. Not the BEST value, but should be plenty fast. 512k level 2 pushed me over the edge (instead of the $15 cheaper 2600- 2600! Dang I should have gotten that just for the number.) Good advice on the RETAIL box thing. I did buy that.

HD 80GB|SEAGATE ST380023AS SATA % 1 $86.00
I spent $8 more than I had to for this dampened version for quietude. As well, I went SATA because in a few months I may get a second drive for a RAID array (whatever the hell that means) which is supported by the motherboard

VGA ATIOEM|RADEON 9600 256M 8X AGP% 1 $123.00
I don't know crap about these. It seemed like the second best, which is fine.

DDR 512|PC270032X8-512M CAS2.5 BFL% 2 $130.00
1 gig baby

POWER SP| ZM300A-APF 300W RT 1 $53.99
I got spendy on this because it's said to be efficient and quiet. Did I underpower this computer with 300? I'm not overclocking anyway.

With a few other items (dampeners, cables, kbrd, mouse, USB/Firewire card (you can never have too many ports), wireless 11g card,DVD +/-R/RW, floppy it was around $950 shipped. The case set me back $180 more shipped (The cooler master fit the aesthetic I wanted since the computer sits in my family room basically- yes I could have gone much cheaper on that.)


Thanks again guys. Clearly people around here are more computer savvy than the rest.

ian

[SoulBlazer]

When I got my new system in early 2002, it was the first one I put together myself. I bought everything from Newegg and by carring over parts from my older Dell (the monitor, DVD drive, keyboard, mouse, speakers) I kept the price under a $1000.

Are you going to be gaming on this machine? If so, I suggest at LEAST the following:

AMD Athlon or P4 running at 2 gig
Motherboard capeable of upgrades and faster CPU's
1012k of DDR Memory
400 w power supply
Artic Silver thermal paste for heatsink
Pure copper base heat sink
Digital Mouse
5.1 speaker system with subwoofer
19'' monitor
Seagate Barracuda HD, 80 gig or larger in size
GeForce 4 or equiv video card
Windows XP

With this system, not only can you kick the living crap of anything out there now, but for another two years to come.

Also, if you're going to play online, buy your own cable modem -- I did. It's a worthwhile investment and saves money in the long run.

And the case you get should have room for two fans in the back and one in the front, as well as be alumium (for cooler temps). I can't recall mine right now but it has all that PLUS a glass side plane that allows me easy access inside the system. And make sure you get a very good fan for the heatsink as well. You want to try to keep the computer running at about 45C or so during normal opeartions.

If the computer is for light gaming, or just for work or surfing, then you can tone down the above. 512 memory, a cheap video and sound card, no speakers, and a a slower CPU are all fine. I'd keep the large monitor and the big HD, though, and add a CD burner drive.

[nesuser2]

curious what kind of MB you went with...I may have skipped it but that would one of the most crucial components in my book....Once, again.....I read fast so if i skipped it, don't take me to the stakes @_@

[Sylentwulf]

The 300W PSU MIGHT be a little iffy. I've always overpowered my computers though, I think I have a 550W in there right now, lol.

You SHOULD get some Arctic Silver or Arctic Ceramique thermal compound, it's only like $5.00 shipped, and you can clean the CRAP that they put on the heatsink, and repalce it with that, which works MUCH better. Arctic Silver also has directions for cleaning and applying the stuff on their website.

Another thing to consider is upgrading the CPU Heatsink. Not necessary by ANY means, but I like to do it :)

Nice job on the rest :)

[NoahsMyBro]

I'd like to add a couple of things regarding the hard drive.

I'm sorry, I really wish I'd thought to say this last night, before you ordered, but hopefully it won't matter.

A couple of years ago the hard drive mfrs. all reduced their standard warranty from 3 years to 1 year. Their least expensive drives all now only include a 1 year wty. Now, if your drive craps out, the wty won't get you your data back, but I still always select a drive with a 3 yr wty anyway, on the theory that the drive may be less likely to bite the dust. And some drives DO have 3 yr wtys, they just may cost a little more.

As for RAID, RAID is a way to use multiple hard drives to improve drive perfomance and/or provide redundancy in case a drive fails. A RAID primer is
here. (http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/R/RAID.html)

[BoOchan]

Dell Sux0rs, HP Sux0rs even Moreso, and All the other Big PC Manufactuers suck for various reasons. Either get one Very Cheap easily from a Local Store/Wholesaler, or like me Build it Yourself. At Least you can have a 1337 Case, and parts you Want!

[calthaer]

I think you should biuld as well, yes Dell can be cheap, and has decent service as well, but when you build your own you know all the ins and outs, as opposed to a tech guy outsourced from india reading a manual (no I am not being rude this happened when I was getting support from Dell on my sisters PC, and was no help)

I would say that the fact that Dell is outsourcing support to India would be enough for me to not recommend them to anybody ever again. Their support is really the only deciding factor IMO in their favor, and if the support will be only semi-literate in English (and taking jobs away from Americans, to boot) then I can't see why you'd want to go with a Dell machine. Forget that option.

In terms of Tiger Direct - I, too, have had problems with them similar to the ones Noah pointed out - them sending something that was similar, but not quite, what you ordered. Do not order from them. The whole point of building a custom box is getting EXACTLY what you want in there.

And as for mouse - yes, you do need to get an optical mouse. I would suggest getting a Logitech iFeel mouse, because tactile feedback mice in the games that support it is just R0><0R! I really wish more games DID support it. Black & White even has special side-quests that are available only for players that have an iFeel mouse.

[YoshiM]

* Buying pre-built is cheaper than self-built, if you compare apples-to-apples. This means you include the cost of OS, software, etc.. Note that a Microsoft Windows/Office license that was originally supplied with a prebuilt PC is licensed ONLY for that machine. Using it on a different PC, or as the basis for an upgrade on a different PC is not legal. I'm not discussing morality or ethics, just the actual legality of the action.

Bold emphasis is mine.

EULAs still have to be proven as a legal document. For one when you buy a PC there is usually no information on the EULAs at time of purchase nor is there any inclination of entering a legal contract when purchasing a machine. While I cannot find specific instances (I'm wading through a bunch verbatim license info from MS and sales on Google) I do know that certain parts of the EULA, namely if you don't want to use Windows and want to replace it with Linux (or some other OS) and want a refund on the bundled OS (as stated in the EULA), have been challenged AND won.
In my experience I have moved OEM licenses from one prebuilt to another to shuffle needed software from one machine to another. Called Microsoft and they allowed me to transfer it no questions asked. And this is for a BUSINESS.

Anyway, EULAs are a grey area, especially since they are "written in pencil" as Microsoft can rewrite them at anytime during a Windows Upgrade. Other licenses tend to be "haggle-able" as I discovered when buying Anti Virus licenses for my work place and a sister company. To transfer an OS from one machine to another AS LONG AS the original machine is either dead or OS-less is not going to send the Microsoft Cops after you.

If you REALLY wanna stay "legal" from now on with Windows licensing, take the OEM sticker and put it on the power cord that goes to your PC. The EULA is so vague that this is considered by many as "hardware".

[Raedon]

A few hardware recommendations:

CPU: Get the RETAIL box, not OEM. It will run slightly higher, but you are guaranteed the fan/heatsink/thermal paste solution meets Intel or AMD's requirements.


I TOTALLY DISSAGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT!

If you are going AMD then go OEM as AMD's idea of cool enough is 50c idle. If you go with AMD go OEM and get a Volcano 9 for $20.. it will keep your CPU under 40c most of the time. Strive to keep your CPU under 115f at all times as over 115f is where damage begins. A loaded XP with a stock HSF runs close to 60c and will error and blue screen.

Intel Retail is fine

Rule of thumb on what to get: Intel=business/encoding AMD=gaming

as for the 64 bit CPU's, don't bother.. 1) no 64 bit OS and 2) the chipsets on those 64 bit motherboards suck.

Get a 2500+ Barton OEM and a top of the line ASUS or Abit Nforce 2 ultra 400 motherboard.

Get some good 3200-3500 Cas2 RAM. Corsair XMS is the best.


Crank the FSB to 200 (bartons are 166 stock) and you have a kicking game system.



A case is a personal thing obviously :) I have an Enermax CS-10181-B full server case atm. It has 7 case fans and is totally screwless (except floppy.) It has a Firewire/2 USB 2.0 and Audio out/ mike in on the top instead of the front (big deal for people who put their cases on the floor.) It's a lot more case then most need but I run a lot of video and have 2 RAID stripes (2x120 WD "SE" 8meg for 240gig and two SATA 200's for 400gig..) plus an 80 gig 7200 I use to boot off.

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-124-033-08.JPG



Anyway, bottom line, pre-made computers are made of the worst stuff from 6 month old warehouse surplus. Build it yourself, it's not hard.

[Raedon]

The 300W PSU MIGHT be a little iffy. I've always overpowered my computers though, I think I have a 550W in there right now, lol.


Get a 400 watt.. I have a Enermax 400watt that is pushing a Shuttle 35n 400 Ultra that is pushing non-stock Vcore and Vdimms, Radeon 9800 pro, 5 Hard disks, 1 DVD burner, 7 (!) case fans, a floppy and USB scanner. Good Power Supplies makers: Antic, Enermax, Sparkle, Vantic.. (only ones I'v eused.) Those 400 PSU's that come in some cases are horrible.. a cheap PSU will cause system stability problems.

[SoulBlazer]

Agreed on the power supply. I have a 500w gold plated contact one that cost a pretty penny. :D

[nesuser2]

it's not so much quantity of watts really, as it is quality. you can find the crappiest 550w PS out there and it won't function correctly. and I usually put 330 or 350w PS's by thermaltake, can't remember which but they don't have any problems and you may even be able to find a calculator on the net somewhere to tell you exactly what you need. I know they have them for UPS's but not sure about standard power supplies...

[Sylentwulf]

Adding to Raedon's list of PSU's, Raidmax, and thermaltake are pretty damn good too. Preferably find one with to fans (one intake and one blowhole, top or back)

[StrychNiNE]

Definitely build. Real men build ;P

Well, its also cheaper - and you generally build a system better than you can buy prebuilt - plus you get experience.

Make sure you visit hardocp.com and ars-technica.com for good information on what the latest and best components are.