S-Video for the Genesis?

[Ed Oscuro]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3069353732&category=3642

I also have another question, since I've never seen an original Genesis in person. Somebody asked what the toggle on the unit does...I have no idea how to answer this. Should be easy enough to answer :)

[Bighab]

I am confused. Where do you get S-video in that auction from? Its Mono AV cables for a Genesis model 1,SMS,C64

[Ed Oscuro]

Er, it does say A/V cables, but the video plug doesn't look like the one on my current Genesis cable. So you're saying it should only have one pin inside the metal ring (or whatever), works exactly the same as A/V cables such as you can plug into the front of newer TVs, but just plugs into the same spot the S-Video plugs into, right?

Still need an answer about that Genesis toggle. I'm sure it's been mentioned here before, but I've forgotten what was said.

[Ed Oscuro]

You've got me confused, now, too! Where'd you see "mono" in the auction? I see two plugs for stereo sound. At least my TV agrees with me; the video plug is red. This is getting strange.

[Dangerboy]

Oh! I get the confusion. :)

Ed, the part your mistaking for the the S-Video Input is actually the system's plug in. The original Genesis, Neo Geo AES, Commodore 64, and Turbo Grafx 16 all had these massive inputs for the AV cables. The inside of the black plug looks like a S-Video cable on steroids (ie one main pin with about 4 bigger pins behind it). The only thing that plugs into the TV is the yellow and white (mono sound).

In other words....both ends of the cord are on the same side in the picture. ^_^

The Toggle Switch...the only thing I can think of that would be considered a toggle switch on the origiinal Genesis would be either the Sliding Volume Control button (for the headphone jack) or the small one in the back. The back determines Channel 3 or 4 for the RF Unit.

Jason

[Bighab]

The video cable is yellow(like all my other video cables) The white cable is for sound(mono) If it were sterio AV cables then it would have both red and white cables for sterio sound.

[Dangerboy]

Also...

Video = Yellow

Audio Mono = White
Audio Stereo = Red

=)

[Ed Oscuro]

I *was* serious about red being video on my TV, but I know it's usually white/red. I even checked my TV's connections twice...dunno how I still decided it was red :o

What the hell. My mind is going...and I'm just twenty! That, and I can't explain it away as the result of a night drinking since I don't drink (or do anything else that's bad for me besides mix simple things up, and often ;)

Anyhow -- thanks for clearing that up, Dangerboy :)

Now how about that toggle on the Genesis? I'm a bit reluctant to try to take a stab in the dark again, but I had a feeling it was related to the Power Base Converter.

[Jason One]

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[Ed Oscuro]

Huh. Given those specs, why does the Genesis 3 have such awful video (not to mention mono sound)?

[Jason One]

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[FABombjoy]

Also, some model 2 Genesis units use a Samsung(?) RGB encoder that has no hope for s-video. I don't have the chip# handy, but I have the spec sheet on it at home. Unfortunately, every Genesis 2 that I've acquired has that particular chip, never a CXA series.

The best results that I've gotten from modding v1 Genesis units come from using a pre-lockout v1 (no licensing screen at boot). These have the full-size 1145 chip. For whatever reason, they just look better. Probably for similar reasons that different versions of the Neo Geo look better than others when modded.

As for a toggle on the Genesis 1, only power/volume/channel select are stock. Anything else was probably added by someone, possibly for a region or 50/60hz mod. Pics would help.

[Gamereviewgod]

Just for the record, huge recommendation to FABombjoy. My Genny never looked better. If your getting it modded, he's the one to do it.

(Kiss ass points: +3)

[Ed Oscuro]

Huh. Given those specs, why does the Genesis 3 have such awful video (not to mention mono sound)?
Hmm... from what I've heard, I thought the Genesis 3 had good video quality. It should, theoretically. My Genesis 2 with the CXA1645 chip (same one used in all model 3s) certainly looks better than my older Genesis 2 (w/ CXA1145 video chip), and a whole hell of a lot better than the Genesis 1.

I own two Genesis 3 systems and a Nomad -- I wouldn' know if they have the same video chip, but the Genesis 3 appears to have a one-chip design (I could open one again, as I've taken both apart for cleaning, but I can't open my Nomad nor do I want to) and that, coupled with the fact that both systems seem to be compatible with the same games (different from any other Genesis) leads me to speculate both have similar designs...perhaps the Nomad has a chip or two that the Genesis 3 is missing.

The Genesis 3 has absolutely horrible video, no doubt about it...I've used my three systems on the same TV with the same A/V plug and both Genesis units improved slightly (so it seemed to me) from what they had been with their original cords, but even so they were awful. Pixels seemed to bleed to the left playing Shadow Dancer on a Genesis 3, and in Phantasy Star 2 my characters' eyes would turn very red at certain spots on the screen (after walking for a while it would turn back into something more like the correct black, then back again)...both problems that were not at all seen on my Nomad.

If anybody's interested in a picture of the inside of a Genesis 3 unit, just give the word and I'll take some shots.

[The Manimal]

I again think the Genny 3 has pretty good video quality LOL

[Parodius]

Not to confuse the issue further, but I seem to recall a discussion from another forum where it was mentioned that Sega Europe actually sold RGB scart cables for the Mega Drive. This would be awesome.

An even better hook-up than S-Video, and here I am stuck with normal AV hook-ups.......Not fair.

[Ed Oscuro]

Not to confuse the issue further, but I seem to recall a discussion from another forum where it was mentioned that Sega Europe actually sold RGB scart cables for the Mega Drive. This would be awesome.

An even better hook-up than S-Video, and here I am stuck with normal AV hook-ups.......Not fair.

Well, PAL by its nature allows easy RGB, but that's more than offset by game consoles often displaying a picture with big black borders and a 20% reduction in speed. The ultimate Genesis/Mega Drive system seems to be the IBM-made Teradrive, which natively outputs RGB quality graphics in Mega Drive mode (VGA for PC mode, that goes without saying, not sure if the system outputs VGA when playing Mega Drive games) to a dual-mode (15KHz and 31KHz) monitor (also IBM-made) and also can be hooked up to a TV for playing Mega Drive games.

[Jorpho]

Didn't Amstrad make something like that?

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, the Amstrad Mega PC. The PC hardware in it is more up to date, but the construction is shoddy, and the PC can't send data to the Mega Drive (you flip a switch to use one side or the other -- can't have both working at once). "Nice piece of kit," though, as they say.

[The Clonus Horror]

I just use an converter from Radio Shack that you plug the yellow wire into and then an S-Video cable comes out of the back, thus converting your video signal into S-Video. I know purists will say that this isn't "true" S-Video, but I can assure you that it makes a difference. I even have my NES hooked up this way! VERY crisp.

Mutant League Football never looked so good....

[Parodius]

Not to confuse the issue further, but I seem to recall a discussion from another forum where it was mentioned that Sega Europe actually sold RGB scart cables for the Mega Drive. This would be awesome.

An even better hook-up than S-Video, and here I am stuck with normal AV hook-ups.......Not fair.

Well, PAL by its nature allows easy RGB, but that's more than offset by game consoles often displaying a picture with big black borders and a 20% reduction in speed. The ultimate Genesis/Mega Drive system seems to be the IBM-made Teradrive, which natively outputs RGB quality graphics in Mega Drive mode (VGA for PC mode, that goes without saying, not sure if the system outputs VGA when playing Mega Drive games) to a dual-mode (15KHz and 31KHz) monitor (also IBM-made) and also can be hooked up to a TV for playing Mega Drive games.

Hmm. What about a PAL MD that is outfitted with a 50/60hz switch?? Set to 60hz and playing Genesis or JAP MD games in RGB scart it would be the ultimate!!! Now if I only had a TV with a scart input................

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, on the plus side you could use it on any size TV. The real problem is that you can't make a 50/60 Hz switch, and that to get the game to run at the proper framerate (60Hz) requires the game code be modified. No hardware fixes are available when it comes down to the game only being designed to output so many frames a second.

@ The Clonus Horror:

Sounds interesting! I might see about that someday.

[Anthony1]

I just use an converter from Radio Shack that you plug the yellow wire into and then an S-Video cable comes out of the back, thus converting your video signal into S-Video. I know purists will say that this isn't "true" S-Video, but I can assure you that it makes a difference. I even have my NES hooked up this way! VERY crisp.

Mutant League Football never looked so good....



What is the model # for this converter from Radio Shack?


Also, I don't see how it could possibly improve the composite video signal. The only thing it does is allow the composite signal to reach the TV through a S-Video plug. The reason that you might get an improved picture is because when using S-Video, you bypass some of the video circuitry of the TV, which could cause slight interference.

But you aren't getting a true S-Video signal from that.


I believe there are only two ways to get TRUE S-VIDEO from a Genny.

1. Use a Wondermega or a JVC X'Eye

2. There is a special mod that will convert the Genesis RGB output to output S-Video. But it would be very expensive, and probably wouldn't be worth all the trouble.

[The Clonus Horror]

I never claimed that it was "true" S-video in the first place. I do, however, stand by my claim that it makes the picture much crisper. I don't know the model number off-hand, but it's quite small...maybe the size of a half-roll of quarters at most.

[The Clonus Horror]

This is what I use on my NES and Genesis:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-1238

[suppafly]

@The Clonus Horror: is there any chance you could find out the number of that adapter??? Theres a Radio Shack too here in my town in Mexico, so i`d like to give it a try and find that part :-P

[The Clonus Horror]

I guess I should check this out if I decide to use it with any other multiple older systems:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-1976

!

[The Clonus Horror]

The single S-Video converter part number is: 15-1238

[suppafly]

Thanks for the info, it will be very helpful to some genny lovers! :P

[The Clonus Horror]

No problem. I too, am always looking for Genesis/32X games...

[FABombjoy]

I believe there are only two ways to get TRUE S-VIDEO from a Genny.

1. Use a Wondermega or a JVC X'Eye

2. There is a special mod that will convert the Genesis RGB output to output S-Video. But it would be very expensive, and probably wouldn't be worth all the trouble.

You can also add a circuit to the RGB encoder chip inside the Genesis to output S-video (same method as adding s-video to the Neo Geo). I've modded about 4 Genesis for it now, and the quality improvement is quite noticible. Genesis composite quality sucks. Badly.


Well, PAL by its nature allows easy RGB, but that's more than offset by game consoles often displaying a picture with big black borders and a 20% reduction in speed.

Actually, PAL, NTSC, SECAM et. all are sort of unrelated to RGB. RGB is only color information + timings, and is region independant. PAL/NTSC/blah all represent methods of encoding a broadcastable signal that will eventually be converted into RGB before being displayed (attempting to broadcast a true RGB signal would consume incredible quantites of bandwidth). For whatever reason, the US just never really got RGB capable televisions (even Japan did, and they're also NTSC). Why? Who knows.

Personally, I would like to either get an RGB television, or get an RGB->Component (YPrPb) adapter along with RGB cables for available systems. That would offer the best quality/price ratio for US videophile gamers. Unfortunately, you'll have to import all the cables/switchboxes to set it up (probably have to import the converter, also). If you could get SCART cables/switchboxes & a converter with SCART input, you could run a pretty clean setup, cabling and picture quality-wise.

[Parodius]

Well, on the plus side you could use it on any size TV. The real problem is that you can't make a 50/60 Hz switch, and that to get the game to run at the proper framerate (60Hz) requires the game code be modified. No hardware fixes are available when it comes down to the game only being designed to output so many frames a second.


Okay:
There is something called a double switch for the PAL MegaDrive. With some soldering you add two switches to the back of the console. 1 for switching between 50 and 60 hz and one for switching between English and Japanese. See here:
http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/services.htm

Therefore, with a switch outfitted PAL MegaDrive set to English and 60 hz you basically have an NTSC Genesis, except WITH the ability to use RGB scart. If you have a scart enabled TV or use a Scart to Component converter that is.[/url]

[anagrama]

Hmm. What about a PAL MD that is outfitted with a 50/60hz switch?? Set to 60hz and playing Genesis or JAP MD games in RGB scart it would be the ultimate!!! Now if I only had a TV with a scart input................

Hell, add a MegaCD and Power Base convertor, and you've just described my Megadrive setup perfectly. Everything in beautiful 60Hz RGB. 'tis truly a joy :D

Oh, and you need 2 switches on a MD/Genesis to play everything - 1 to switch between 50 & 60 Hz, and one to switch between English/Jap text.

[anagrama]

D'oh! I only read the first page before posting, so I didn't see that you'd just mentioned the double-switch.
There's an extremely detailed step-by-step guide in the Gamefaqs Genesis Hardware FAQ's that I used when modding mine.

Also, these mods will work on any region machine - it doesn't have to be a PAL MD to get RGB out of it.

[Parodius]

Hell, add a MegaCD and Power Base convertor, and you've just described my Megadrive setup perfectly.
No 32X?

[anagrama]

Hell, add a MegaCD and Power Base convertor, and you've just described my Megadrive setup perfectly.
No 32X?

I've got one, but it's missing the MD>32X cable. :(

[anagrama]

Oh, and one more thing - it's an extremly simple mod. I'm no soldering expert (I killed 3 SNES's in one sorry afternoon trying to mod them :eek 2: ) but this took me about 20 minutes, and I've had no problems in the year or so since.