Is our rarity guide Accurate?A look at Comics 10 point scale

[Buyatari]

I've collected comics longer then I've collected video games. I've always felt video games were "the next step" for comics. A virtual comic where you control the character through the story.

Now comic collecting is very strict when it comes to grading and rarity. I don't have nearly as nice a comic collection as I do videogame but I still own a few gems. Detective Comics #38 (first Robin appearance) would have to be the rarist and most expensive.

Detective Comics #38 from Apr 1940 is only a 5 on the comics rarity scale.
Other famous rare comics Action #1 June 1938 (first Superman) and Detective Comics #27 May 1939 (first Batman) are given rarity values of 7 and 6

This got me to wonder about how the comics rarity scale was designed and if we as video game collectors have been to generous with our rarity scale.

The Comic book "Gerber" rarity SI (scarcity index) mostly used for Golden Age comics is reproduced below.

1 Very common - likely every comic store in the country has copies of this comic.
2. Common - You might have to call around to a few stores to locate this comic book. Generally can be found without trouble.
3. More than Average There are more comics in existance than the average for comics published between 1933 to 1960.
4. Average Scarcity - This index number indicates that there are about 1,000 to 2,000 in existance or about average for comics printed between 1933-1960
5. Less than average in existance. Generally between 200 and 1000 still exist, this one is more difficult to find. Diligence should pay off after several weeks and checking with most dealers and following most ads in comics newspapers.
6. Uncommon. Between 50 to 200 still exist. Clearly we are getting into scarce and difficult issues to find. It is a good comic to hard because demand for this comic book generally exceeds its supply.
7. Scarce. Between 20 to 50 still in existence. You are fortunate to find one of these and it is well worth keepingsince you generally can command the price when ready to sell. A great addition to any collection, you have to be lucky to be able to purchase one.
8. Rare Between 11 to 20 in existence. If you find one of these grab it really quickly because you will likely never get another chance. High premium prices expected and recieved for comic books in this category.
9 Very Rare From 6 to 10 copies exist. These are so rare that they are seldom resold. If you get a chance to buy one,do it!
10 Unique Or close to it. Less than 5 known copies in existence.
11 Non-Existent but known to have been printed.

The 7th Edition DP rarity list for video games is reproduced below.

R0 New to this edition, games listed with a rarity of zero are simply games that were never released. You'll see this listed in all "Rumor Mill" titles
R1 These are the items you can find or BUY anywhere. When you find a bunch of games, these WILL be in the pile.
R2 You can find these titles just about anywhere,too,but they're slightly less common, perhaps in certain areas.
R3 You'll find these items through the proper channels (other collectors!), not as common "on the street", but fairly common on the internet
R4 The hunt begins. Fours are the kinds of item you have to look for, but definitely always within reach.
R5 If you have a five or greater, at least one of us has had a problem finding the title. You can call that UNCOMMON if you so desire.
R6 We categorized these items as "items we've eventually found but had to give up something really good in a trade or paid good $$$ for it"
R7 RARE. A true collectible! Sevens and up represent the "hardest" 25% of the games listed in this Guide.
R8 We consider these the items you?ll never find by chance (except in those legendary lucky finds!). There are a few eights in this Guide that we haven?t gotten our grubby little hands on... yet.
R9 The centerpiece of a collection make up the nines. If you ever hope to BUY one of these, prepare to write out a big check.
R10 Not only is this the centerpiece of a collection, but a ten also means you could be holding a one-of-a-kind (certainly no more than a dozen or so) there- kind of like owning a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle , or Issue #1 of DC's Action Comics.

So what do you think? Are we being fair? Are we over hyping our videogame rares or are we right where we need to be?

[MarioAllStar2600]

It's not a bad guide, and if your not sure this is definatly a nice guide to have on hand. The prices seem to be off though.

[digitalpress]

It's not a bad guide, and if your not sure this is definatly a nice guide to have on hand. The prices seem to be off though.

I'm gonna vote... hmm... that we're RIGHT WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

There are three reasons why I'd never adopt a comic book guide price or rarity scheme.

1. The distribution, initial pricing and production are in two completely different worlds.
2. We've clearly defined what our 1-10 scale is and we stick to it. Why change that?
3. Most "guides" offer DEALER prices. If you feel our prices are too low, then HOORAY! That's exactly the point - it's a collector's guide. This is all explained in the prefix sections before the actual game lists, please take a look.

[jhd7]

I back Joe 100%. Why change the current system? It's best to be consistent and adjust the rarity of a game (if necessary), not the rarity scale.

Furthermore, with all due respect, I think people take the guide prices too literally or seriously. I use them as a "fair" price for buying and selling, not a written-in-stone price.

My two cents. :)

Jeff D

[Keir]

I don't know anything about comic books so maybe it's a lot different, but that scale just would not work for video games. I think the DP scale is right on. I've seen other video game rarity scales that are the opposite of what the comic book scale is (in relation to DP's scale). The result is that not only do semi-rare games appear more rare, but all the really rare games are lumped together. On the other hand, what's the point of having a guide if only a handful of collectors have anything above a 5? DP's scale is a nice balance between these 2 extremes.

[Scoots]

The one "issue" I've had with DP's rarity scale is whether a R1 is supposed to be just as common for the 2600 as for the NES or the TG16. Is a 1 a 1 across the boards, or only relative to the other titles for that system?

[Oobgarm]

I think things are good as they are.

Comparing videogames to comics, while nice in theory, is actually rather different. Mainly due to the fact that comic collecting has been a viable hobby for quite some time now, while videogame collecting isn't quite as "established", so to speak.

As with any guide, be it DP, Beckett, Scrye, or Wizard, I take them as a YMMV(your mileage may vary) guide, a reference if you will, and everyone else should as well. Not as a be all, end all, "everything MUST be priced this way" book. That's just foolish. But a lot of folks see it that way.

As game collecting becomes more mainstream, the guide will be refined as needed.

[Oobgarm]

The one "issue" I've had with DP's rarity scale is whether a R1 is supposed to be just as common for the 2600 as for the NES or the TG16. Is a 1 a 1 across the boards, or only relative to the other titles for that system?

I always considered that to be within the confines of the system itself.

Kinda like when you find some TG16 Hucards, you'll almost always see Keith Courage.

NES? SMB/Duck Hunt.
2600? Combat.

But I doubt you'll find Keith Courage in a huge lot of games, although you'll find more SMB's and Combats.

[maxlords]

Personally I like the DP rarities better than the comics ones (and I've collected comics for YEARS). They're more accurate for gaming, and as Joe said, the distribution of items is COMPLETELY different.

However, that being said, I'd like to see a comic book style CONDITION grading adopted. This is the standard I normally use to judge games as well as comics, with a range of "Poor" to "Fine" to "Mint". It's FAR more accurate than most people's wide ranges of descriptions you see IMO. The Overstreet condition grading system could easily be applied to video games....you'd just have to add a bit more for CDs/carts and cases/boxes.

[Ed Oscuro]

I suppose our stuff is accurate (though I'd hate to be tasked deciding rarity for imports), and the rarity numbers are FINE.

Whoever created that system for Golden Age is crazy, even if you consider that stuff from 1933-1960 IS that rare. Their rank for "average" rarity of 1,000 copies left would certainly not rare, and 50-200 in existence for uncommon is just insane any way you look at it. Seriously, that's darn rare and no question about it.

[Chunky]

Rarity seems to be on the ball maybe if anything + or - 1 for some regional differences.

As for prices...I thought comic and baseball card price guides are a collection of info from dealers and stores. pretty much going rate pricing. Not to mention it's updated every month.

Grading seems to be an even bigger scam. one of the larger grading card companys is Beckett, seems like conflict of interest, but whos regulating any of it.

[wberdan]

[Ed Oscuro]

You hit the nail on the head there!

[Oobgarm]

Grading seems to be an even bigger scam. one of the larger grading card companys is Beckett, seems like conflict of interest, but whos regulating any of it.

I just hope gaming never gets into this, as it kills the hobby IMO. It's very tough to sell bb cards now without having them graded first-which almost makes it not worth the effort.

EDIT:

Willie gets my vote for post of the year! :D

[Buyatari]

Now does our current rarity listing cover every video game across all platforms.

As was said before are TG-16 1s just as common as NES 1s and Atari 2600 1s?

Atari 2600 was the first system we set forth to place a rarity upon and it sets a high bar when compared to most other systems.

I still can't believe my Detective Comics #38 with 14 currently known unrestored comics is only a 5 out of 10 :(

[digitalpress]

The one "issue" I've had with DP's rarity scale is whether a R1 is supposed to be just as common for the 2600 as for the NES or the TG16. Is a 1 a 1 across the boards, or only relative to the other titles for that system?

It's supposed to be across-system, in that if you read the description for an R1 it applies to any game assigned an R1 in that book.

[Felixthegamer]

I think it is right on the money. It is a system which had a full explanation, makes sense and works.

[Scoots]

Thanks for the official clarification, DP.

That said, the ONLY TG-16 stuff I've ever seen in the wild were three instruction manuals I got in a box of stuff about 5 years ago. X_x

[TheRedEye]

I think the inherent flaw in comparing comic books to video games, in terms of "rarity ratings," is that there are a hell of a lot more uber-rare comics than there are video games. If Detective Comics #38, an issue I've seen on more than one occasion, is only considered a 5, there must be a HELL of a lot of others in the higher scales.

Comic books, for years, weren't collected. They were thrown away. Video games, while often thrown out, were more often than not sold/donated/given away. It's a lot easier to justify throwing out a $0.10 comic book than it is a $40 video game, and therefore even the rarest of the rare still exist in decent numbers.

In short: in a video game rarity scale, the 8-10s easily cover the 5-11s of a comic book scale, based strictly on numbers and survivability, and therefore applying a comic book-based system to video games would result in, say, only a handful of games within each scale, with very minute differences between them.

EDIT: And how would unreleased games that exist in prototype form be compensated for? If a comic went unpublished, but someone has all of the original art, isn't that the same thing? Where does that fit on the scale?

[digitpress Jim]

There is absolutely no reason to change our rarity system. I am currently working on a section for the new DP guide and let me tell you, you have to do a lot of research on the games , rarities, prices, etc. which is very awesome and so much fun. The point I am trying to make is that everybody who works on a section for the DP Guide puts a lot of hard work into making sure everything is accurate and up to date with the rarites, prices, etc. for the games.

I hate to sound arrogant, but you can rest assured you are getting the best results compared to any other Rarity guide that is made for Video Games. Our rarity system really should not be compared to comic book or any other form's rarity system. This is just my take on the topic. Joe's rarity system is perfect and should not be changed or tampered with, especially since I rely very heavily on the guide myself. :D :D :D

[Sylentwulf]

The problem comparing the 2, is that there are probably MORE comic book COLLECTORS, and comic books had a LOWER PRINT run. Therefor the 1-10 has to be more strict. For example:

4. Average Scarcity - This index number indicates that there are about 1,000 to 2,000

That means Panzer Dragoon Saga is what, a 3 out of 10? While I admit, it's more common than ebay lets on, it's definitely no 3 out of 10.

[Nature Boy]

I think examining the rarity system now and again is always a good idea. Never take anything for granted.

I actually like the comic book ratings, but I'm not sure vg collecting is far enough along to adopt it. As has been pointed out, comic collecting is most definitely *not* new. As such they have a really good handle on how many copies of given issues are known to exist - which is how they can have a rarity system based on quantity.

Do actually know how many Air Raids exist though? Pepsi Invader? Malagais? Even just in collectors hands that is? Maybe we should start tracking who has what for our more Rare titles (9s and 10s).

[ClubNinja]

I don't think I have too much to add that hasn't already been said, but...


Do actually know how many Air Raids exist though? Pepsi Invader? Malagais? Even just in collectors hands that is? Maybe we should start tracking who has what for our more Rare titles (9s and 10s).

I've been thinking of this as a *good* idea for quite some time. I'm sure it would be rather enlightening and provide a solid answer to what's really a 10 and what's not.

[portnoyd]

Do actually know how many Air Raids exist though? Pepsi Invader? Malagais? Even just in collectors hands that is? Maybe we should start tracking who has what for our more Rare titles (9s and 10s).

I've been thinking of this as a *good* idea for quite some time. I'm sure it would be rather enlightening and provide a solid answer to what's really a 10 and what's not.

Only problem is this could turn into a "Who's who with rare stuff" list, and could be used as a shopping list for people to find rare carts. I guess an "undue/unwanted attention" sort of thing, and this could keep people from coming forward. It's worth a shot tho.

dave

[udisi]

I think the scale is about right on, now some of the games on the other hand have been miscatergorized...ex Dynastic Hero for Turbo Duo R4-$25 , I've seen this about 3 times and everytime it sold for over $200, twice over $300...might have to re-examine some of those entries.

[Nature Boy]

Only problem is this could turn into a "Who's who with rare stuff" list, and could be used as a shopping list for people to find rare carts. I guess an "undue/unwanted attention" sort of thing, and this could keep people from coming forward. It's worth a shot tho.

Very true. And I wouldn't blame people for not coming forward. But you can still get an idea of what's out there, assuming you get enough of a sample of collectors to make estimates.

You also have to worry about the liars out there (and we've seen a few of them here before). Hopefully the majority of people would be mature about such an effort though. I would be - but then again I don't actually own anything more rare than a 6 :)

[KlarthAilerion]

For what it's worth, I've voted that it's a good system but it can use some work. No such system can every really be "perfect" to a t, but that should be the goal that every such system strives to reach. Minor tweaking, reconsidering of prices, keeping in mind games lost to dirt/scratches/time, etc. are necessaary, and are what need to be done to keep the system working well as the years go on.

I think y'all have done a good job so far, and just need to stay on it when considering the prices listed for games and such. I also think having a scale for the condition of the box, manual, cart/tape/discs, and whatnot would be a good idea (and also have an impact upon the prices listed in the guide).

As for the listing of who's got what cart, I personally don't like that. Game collections should bear no similarities to a tax audit. I also personally wouldn't appreciate other people going around and listing what I have in my collection. But that's just me, I guess.

[orrimarrko]

Just my two cents...

I believe that the current system is a great basis from which to work with. The rating categories in and of themselves is fine.

R0 - R10

It would be difficult to argue sematically about what differentiates a 5 from a 6, etc., but the definitions will always border on the ambiguous.

So I don't really feel the need to examine the rating definitions, as they are still a guide, and not absolute.

Now, as far as the ratings for games themselves, this is where I have the occasional issue. Unfortunately, and this will never change, the overwhelming majority of video games were produced in unconfirmed numbers, and the number of those that are known to exist is even harder to ascertain.

The guide takes many factors into account in assigning an estimated rarity for any given title. Some of those factors include availablility in open markets, retail, second hand stores, or god forbid, eBay.

These factors, unfortunately, need to be constantly re-evaluated and monitored over time. Many things can cause the rarity of a title to change, and thus the need to monitor. As long as the assigned rarity values are updated, then there's only the need to acknowledge that they are still a "guide" to aid the collector.

Regionality is one of the problems with assigning video game rarities. Empirically, rarity should be the known number of copies divided by the number produced, and represented as a percentage. However, we all know that certain regions of the US may be rich in that number of known copies. If 75% of the known copies of Eli's Ladder were located in California, you could stand to argue that it is rarer in Texas. However, I won't go there.

The other problem I have is when people say that demand, and consequently price, determines rarity. This oft debated topic is never so prevalent when eBay prices are used to imply that a title is rare. I feel that the DP guide's approach to pricing is beneficial to all collectors, as it doesn't overinflate prices based on the rarity index (there are some R7 & R8 titles that aren't very expensive at all), and it doesn't list the highest paid prices for any given title. That would be a huge mistake, I hope many of you would agree.

Anyway, I think the guide works well for what it's intended - to provide a list of titles, and approximate values based on estimated scarcity. If people are willing to pay $200 for a title that is listed as an R4/$25, let them. Eventually, it will work itself out.

Carry on...