The DP/Manci Games Alliance

[digitalpress]

In case you wondered at all about my attitude when Manci Games first popped up as a topic in these forums, or in case you noticed the news item on the front page of DP this morning or in case you happened to go to the Manci Games website and see our logo there, thought I'd throw in some detail.

Jaysen Mercer is one of a small group of partners involved in launching Manci Games, a magazine which will not only cover retrogaming by way of reviews and columns but also with a monthly price guide. Jaysen and I have been chatting quite a bit over the past few weeks about what probably seemed like the obvious arrangement to many: Digital Press overseeing/maintaining this price list for their magazine.

First let me say that I stand behind this magazine 100%. Big, small, sink or swim, I'm glad to see someone attempt it again and would have given all of my resources to promoting this, regardless of personal involvement. Further, Jaysen is a good guy, someone whose name may not be familiar within the gaming community but whose heart is definitely in it. He's a gamer, no doubt about that. When we talked this Monday night we actually got off track on the "business" side of things and were discussing the NEC SuperGrafx. I wish I had more phone conversations that went that way :)

Now, onto this monthly price guide.

Though there are a number of ways to go with it, we agree that the best starting approach is to cover the major systems from Atari 2600 through Dreamcast) but list approximately 25% of each system's "most collectible" games. The list is unlike the DP Guide in that it will not contain the background text, however it will contain additional pricing elements, such as individual figures for loose, complete, and sealed games. If we can squeeze it in, also a +/- monthly change indicator, showing titles that have grown or declined by some amount since last month.

What do they get out of it? That's probably evident. Suddenly a start-up magazine has a team with 12+ years experience amongst them. I'd also like to think we've got a good reputation in the videogaming community, coupled with their other recruits (which consist at least of Leonard Herman, Michael Thomasson, and Packrat Video Games) provides a respectable core of supporting cast. If I were Jaysen, I'd be very happy with this draft!

What do we get out of it? Maybe not as evident. Most importantly, it's another opportunity to get the Digital Press name "out there". I think it's also good for our staff, since everyone editing one of the console sections for DP that is used in the magazine price guide will be credited on the magazine staff page. If things work out for Manci Games, it can only mean bigger and better things for us as well.

So that's about it, really. Next step: I'll be working with our team to give the listings we'll submit to Manci Games the once-over and you'll see our work right in the first issue and add a few sponsor-type graphics on the DP site to help send some traffic their way as well.

This should be a fun project and something classic gamers can really look forward to. I hope you will all support the effort and assist in making "retro" a little bigger this year.

Game ON.

[Mayhem]

As someone who was positive about this involvement, I can only say "go get 'em Joe" ;)

Out of interest, which machines will be listed for initially?

The only problem I then have is trying to get my hands on it... hmm maybe that's a job for Kris heh...

[digitalpress]

Out of interest, which machines will be listed for initially?

I should get the official list of systems today, but from our conversations, I can recall: Atari 2600, 5200, 7800, XE, Intellivision, ColecoVision, NES, SMS, Genesis, Sega CD, TurboGrafx-16, SNES, Lynx, Jaguar, 3DO, Saturn, N64, and Dreamcast. When I get the list I'll update you here.

I know definitely no Odyssey2 and Astrocade, because we discussed those. Any and all systems are "fair game" for future but the initial set will be these most recognizeable game systems.

[SoulBlazer]

So I guess the PlayStation is'nt included because it's not 'dead' yet, huh? Any posibility of expanding to handheld games?

Great idea and eager to help in any way I can, Joe! :D

[omnedon]

Sounds good to me. The hobby is growing. We can either help it grow, or stand in the way. I want it to grow,with all that that entails.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

Is this magazine going to be sold in retail outlets like Gamestop and EB? Or will it be in bookstores or subscription only?

Can't wait.

[djbeatmongrel]

iwas sceptical about manci but with dp behind them it seems like it can shape up well. it looks like i need another mag subscription soon :D

[rolenta]

Is this magazine going to be sold in retail outlets like Gamestop and EB? Or will it be in bookstores or subscription only?

Initially it will only be available via subscription, which can be purchased either through their website, or through Ebay.

[Cmosfm]

I'm pretty sure I made the first topic about this, because I was skeptical of it at first. But now, knowing that it's "DP Approved"...I can subscribe without worry!

Rock on Joe!

[WiseSalesman]

Having reduced my course load, you now where to find me if you need an extra hand in anything, Joe. Just drop me ye olde PM.

[digitalpress]

Having reduced my course load, you now where to find me if you need an extra hand in anything, Joe. Just drop me ye olde PM.

Hm?

Oh, did the last sentence of my opening post sound like I was soliciting help? Ehm, I do it so often that I don't even realize I'm asking anymore! For THIS project we're already covered, since we have the support of the DP Guide Pricing Committee.

However, I'll be looking for help with the book and website projects on an ongoing basis, at the moment, specifically, the screen shots (details: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23301 ) gallery. If you have time for that, let me know. Thanks!

[orrimarrko]

Does anyone else see the downside to the price guide portion of this magazine?

No offense to anyone, but I think that it's a BAD idea.

It's one thing to have the DP guide (or similar publications) that are mostly held in collector's circles - to aid the collectors and make the hobby interesting and more exciting. It also educates buyers, so we can have an inkling of what we should pay for something (again, a guide.)

However, to have what could become, a mainstream publication that lists the prices of video game titles? I truly believe that it will be just a matter of time before the hobby goes the way of the Starting Lineup, Star Wars, or baseball card collecting hobby. I use these as examples, not to be completely focused on, as there are others.

Allow me to explain. Right now, the greatest thing this hobby has going for it, is that there are many venues to procure games at often reasonable costs. I believe that the reason for this is simple. The sellers are often uneducated about the potential or current value of what they are selling. That is GREAT for us - the collector, the gamer, etc.

Do you think that I would have been able to buy a mint boxed Q*Bert's Qubes for $2.99, or a copy of the StarFox Super Weekend competition cart for $9.99, if the store that I bought them from had a price guide?

Not on your life.

So, the counter agrument - "Just because the guide is out there, doesn't mean every place will read it, or adhere to it, in selling their games."

True, but, who are the target markets for this magazine - gamers. Gamers typically shop at places that sell games, and eventually the mag will probably even be marketed there. It's only a matter of time that some stores use that price guide to influence the sale of their inventory.

Again, this hobby is so much fun because the typical Gamestop employee has no idea that the Genesis version of Genghis Khan 2 should be sold for more than $2.99 complete. He/she knows that Final Fantasy II for SNES is "rare", because that's what word of mouth proclaims.

The pawn shop salesman who sells you NES games for a flat $5 each could easily price them according to the guide. Not favorable to the collector or the casual gamer, if you found a diamond in the rough.

Those other hobbies that I mentioned above experienced crashes for several reasons. One of those, however, was that price guides like Becketts and AFN had price guides. Those guides were viewed like the bible in many ways. They influenced public sales, ebay prices, etc. At toy shows, people would whip out the guide and quote prices right off of the page, like it was set in stone.

It was almost like the guide was the price floor, and there was no ceiling. People who sold items for higher than the guide listed would report the figures to the guide editor, and next month, the price would be higher. Eventually, the prices on some things were artificially inflated; so much so, that no dealer could get that price, and over time, lost money because the items simply wouldn't sell for what they paid.

If you think this can't happen to our beloved hobby, you're either crazy, or in a serious state of denial.

Here's a potential example.

The Gold NWC cart.

The overwhelming majority of the gaming public has no idea what this is. even if they did, they couldn't get their hands on one, let alone afford one. Thus, the guide will not really affect sales of this title. Substitute any R9 or R10 title in this example, and I feel that you would have the same result.

Very rare games will probably not be affected by the price guide too much, as supply is small (those who would sell them), and the demand (those who can afford them) isn't that great.

Also, "fad" price trends would also probably not be affected too much. This phenomenon is for games like Chrono Trigger, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Suikoden II, Dragonball GT, or any similar title. Someone realizes that their game goes for big bucks on eBay, and decides to sell it. They aren't really that rare, but the demand is high enough to contend with the supply. Every modern gamer knows that these are expensive on eBay, so they don't need a guide to tell them so.

It's the semi rare games and the popular (but not rare) games that will suffer the most. These are the titles that most stores and gamers who are upgrading from the 16-bit era consider crap. Bad games, bad titles, "never heard of it" - you get the point.

These games, and their value, were known to collectors only (for the most part.) You could find them cheap on occasion, and brag to the rest of us. The odds of that happening decrease over time with a mainstream price guide.

Dealers and hoarders will surface, and ruin the hobby.

Anyway, enough of my schpeel. Sorry to sound like armeggedon is on it's way, but that's how I see it.

Just my opinion - no need to trash me.

Steve

[omnedon]

@orrimarko

I think you may very well be right. However, I think that ship has already sailed. All that's left to decide now, is whether or not you want to be involved in this kind of growth, or if you want it to pass you by.

I think this kind of growth is a done deal, good or bad it's not in long term collector's hands anymore.

Eveybody hold on, this should be interesting to say the least!

[orrimarrko]

I think you may very well be right. However, I think that ship has already sailed. All that's left to decide now, is whether or not you want to be involved in this kind of growth, or if you want it to pass you by.

I think this kind of growth is a done deal, good or bad it's not in long term collector's hands anymore.

I agree with part of what you said. I wish I could be optomistic about the whole thing, but being a skeptic (and a realist), it's not going to happen.

The hobby will still be fun - after all, they are games, and functional. However, the obsessive compulsive collector in me can't help but worry about the "wrong kind of growth" this hobby could undergo.

For people with thousands of games, complete collections, and rare items, this can ONLY be a good thing. The future value of their collections is obvioulsly a nice bonus - even if they never intend to get rid of them.

For those who have a long and expensive way to go - the future's not too bright.

[PackratVG]

@orrimarko

I can certainly understand your concerns. One positive side to the price guide in my mind is that we won't hear, "I'll sell you this copy of Combat for $20.00. I saw it on ebay for that much." I know that almost all of the video game stores around here base their used games pricing off of ebay, which is many times way off. This isn't the case everywhere, but I see a trend developing.

I'm very excited that Packrat Video Games will be able to contribute to Manci Games. Based on my correspondence with Jaysen, I can tell you that he's a great guy and a true gamer.

Thanks,
Jarett Waite
Owner
Packrat Video Games
www.packratvg.com

P.S. The mag will also be available on a month-to-month basis from online dealers, namely us. :)

[Sph1nx]

Guide ruining the hobby?
Hell I hope it does!

Whats he saying?????? Let me explain.........

Say this mag DOES force prices up.. all us collectors with our huge hoarded collections sell most of our stuff at INSANE profits... the prices reach an insane point and suddenly prices drop, akin to the way alot of cards and comics have done. Suddenly the prices are cheaper then ever... all us collectors buy back in for amzing prices and have huge profits left over.

Well.. it's a stretch.... but.. hey...

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

If this even comes close to filling the gap left by Classic Gamer Magazine, then COOL, says me.

[rolenta]

If anything forces prices up, it's going to be this:

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?0375720383

[omnedon]

oooooh..it says "Official" on it!


It must be like...OFFICIAL!!

:roll:

Remember everyone, if we all cash out at the same time, we can cause a huge crash, and buy it all back for a pittance! LOL

[RetroYoungen]

If anything forces prices up, it's going to be this:

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?0375720383

Wow. Official according to WHOM, I wonder... and I also wonder how many people would buy it other than people like us and the people who think they want to be like us (I know PLENTY of n00bs that would buy this, maybe I could talk them into a DP guide instead...).

[ManciGames]

Out of interest, which machines will be listed for initially?

For the first month, we'll have: 3DO, 2600, 5200, 7800, Lynx, Jaguar, Colecovision, Intellivision, N64, NES, SNES, Virtual Boy, Neo-Geo, 32X, Sega CD, Dreamcast, Genesis, Master System, Saturn, and TurboGrafx.

Whew...long list!

Thanks,
Jaysen Mercer
Editor in Chief
Manci Games Magazine
www.mancigames.com

[TheRedEye]

Cool with me. Dave, we can tackle ours together online sometime.

[ManciGames]

So I guess the PlayStation is'nt included because it's not 'dead' yet, huh? Any posibility of expanding to handheld games?

Exactly right on the PSOne question. Won't be too long though, I would guess...

We are actually planning on including at least Gameboy and Gameboy Color as soon as page count permits. If there is enough demand for the others (cough, NGPC, cough), we will probably add those too.

[ManciGames]

If this even comes close to filling the gap left by Classic Gamer Magazine, then COOL, says me.

We are actually hoping to get Chris involved with some sort of content as soon as possible. I know people would love hearing from him again.

[Sph1nx]

Anyone have a copy of that VG price guide posted above?
Im curious as to weather it's a pos or what...

[rolenta]

Anyone have a copy of that VG price guide posted above?
Im curious as to weather it's a pos or what...

Well the author of the book, Bill Ellis, told me it was coming out in July. However the Random House website says it's release date is in August.

[Buyatari]

So who is this guy?

He did a few completed eBay searches and threw together an "official" price guide? Or is this a long time collector I just havn't happened to hear of yet?

[rolenta]

So who is this guy?

He did a few completed eBay searches and threw together an "official" price guide? Or is this a long time collector I just havn't happened to hear of yet?

He is a collector. I've met him a few times at PhillyClassic & CGE last year. According to the Random House website he also wrote a few strategy guides.

[Sanriostar]

I could say the sky is falling.
I could scream about the 'Beany Baby' syndrome.
Hell, I could pop open a beer (well, not right now, I'm at school.. :P )
But with the attention reached regard our hobby, with the Manci mag, and Random house, and even the Pac-Man price guide, we have a better choice:

Provide a united front, promote the DP guide, and make sure that DP becomes the unabashed authority in this matter.

Go DP. :D

[kevincure]

I was wondering the same thing about price inflation; DP's classic guides are great about non-inflationary pricing, though the prices on SNES and Gen, for example, seem to be a bit high to me (and a lot of the DC prices are definitely too high).

If the Manci prices are done in the collector's prices spirit of the DP guide, rather than relying on the (inflationary) dealer-reported prices, it could be a great resource. If not, well, I'd be worried too.

[Ed Oscuro]

But with the attention reached regard our hobby, with the Maci mag, and Random house, and even the Pac-Man price guide, we have a better choice:

Provide a united front, promote the DP guide, and make sure that DP becomes the unabashed authority in this matter.

Go DP. :D

Fnar. Let's go smack DP in the face (however unintentionally) by suggesting that our friends...are really...ENEMIES!

Heh. Again, supply + demand = you better get a good job if you want to keep collecting.

That, folks, is how things are.

[Sanriostar]

But with the attention reached regard our hobby, with the Maci mag, and Random house, and even the Pac-Man price guide, we have a better choice:

Provide a united front, promote the DP guide, and make sure that DP becomes the unabashed authority in this matter.

Go DP. :D

Fnar. Let's go smack DP in the face (however unintentionally) by suggesting that our friends...are really...ENEMIES!

:?

[digitalpress]

Yeah he lost me there.

BTW peeps, if you see prices on our lists that look TOO HIGH, please point them out to me. It's a goal across all sections to have them collector-based, "lowest likely attainable value". They DO need to be realistic, however.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah he lost me there.

Seems obvious to me that Sanriostar is trying to suggest that Manci games is a competitor to DP, calling DP a "better choice" an all.

All I know is what I read in the Forums...

[Sanriostar]

Yeah he lost me there.

Seems obvious to me that Sanriostar is trying to suggest that Manci games is a competitor to DP, calling DP a "better choice" an all.

All I know is what I read in the Forums...

Okay, crossed wires.

No smear intended on Manci, I was trying to convey that DP is written by gamers and collectors on the inside. Support Manci, it's DP affiliated et.al.

I was thinking more about the Random House, Pac-Man, and Ebay stuff. Please ignore.

"And now, On with the show"

[portnoyd]

I was wondering the same thing about price inflation; DP's classic guides are great about non-inflationary pricing, though the prices on SNES and Gen, for example, seem to be a bit high to me (and a lot of the DC prices are definitely too high).

As far as SNES, you can shoot me a PM, and any title that you think could use a price adjustment. Overall, the price are based on game store prices and eBay, with game store prices still getting the higher end. Things have been dropping slowly, so some titles may need a fix. The Funcostop discontinuation of SNES in some areas may move that faster.

dave

[christianscott27]

shhh! billy g. might hear you

http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/2/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/650374

[dmhawkmoon]

I have a good friend writing an article for this magazine so I am excited.

Don't worry about the guide becoming mainstream, guys. First of all, I don't see how people not into retro gaming would suddenly get into it. All the guide could do would be to help those into it learn that the $10 they pay for loose cart Mario World in EB is a rip off and a half. Maybe it'll also help me convince this stupid flea market guy that his Nam 75 isn't worth $90.

The magazine definitely can succeed, though, but only if everyone who loves retro gaming gets into it. If the people who the mag is made for are sceptics then it's a lost cause. I believe it'll work though. People have been dying for a magazine like this. They got my subscription.

[Sniderman]

People have been dying for a magazine like this. Then why did CGM shut down due to lack of subscriptions/advertisers? It's not lack of interest that kills a publication. It's lack of incoming funds.
They got my subscription. And mine too. But we shall have to see as to the longevity. I'm naturally cynical as to whether the retrogaming crowd can actually financially support this venture. I wish Manci all the very best, but it comes down to having the dollars and nickles to run this thing successfully for the first year. And a monthly pub is a HUGE financial undertaking.

[dmhawkmoon]

Well I plan on telling everyone I know and posting the magazine on relevant boards if I can. I didn't know about this magazine til last night, and I would have been upset if no one told me. I really want it to do well. EGM and such aren't completely horrible if you like new games, but they leave a big void for me.

[rolenta]

I'm naturally cynical as to whether the retrogaming crowd can actually financially support this venture. I wish Manci all the very best, but it comes down to having the dollars and nickles to run this thing successfully for the first year. And a monthly pub is a HUGE financial undertaking.

Although I am a contributor to the magazine, I have to agree with Tim. I sincerely hope the magazine succeeds but a new magazine of this type has many uphill obstacles that it must conquer. I told Jaysen all of concerns but he says he has a plan and they will succeed. I hope so!

[udisi]

I think we're all getting ahead of ourselves here a bit. For one. I hope the magazine takes off and we do get a monthly price guide.(I'll explain later).

1st This is a start up magazine, it will have a small cerculation. mostly people like us will be the only ones to here about it.

2nd, it will take some time yet before this price guide hits the mainstream, you'd have to have a pretty high cerculation to get EB, Gamestop and other magazine stands to buy this.

Now why I like the Price Guide...for 1 the baseball card hobby was not ruined by a price guide, it was ruined by ebay and over production. People could find whatever they wanted, even extremly rare stuff, pretty much whenever they wanted. Collectors didn't have to buy locally, cause they didn't have to question wether or not they'd ever see it again. Ebay will have it, and since there's more selection competition would bring down prices. Also the amount of different sets has led to the decline of colectable cards. there's c. 250 Albert Pujols 2001 rookie cards, where there is 3 different Tony Gwynn rookie cards. People used to have to pay for a gwynn rookie cause there's just not as many. For pujols, you can't afford the $500 super Rookie, you can buy the $50, or $20, or$1 Rookie...there's more cards than collectors now.
In Videogames, it will be similar and different. It will kinda be the same as there are for the most part a large number of copies of each game. If the collector base continues to rise, you'll probably see a rise in prices, if it falls, you'll probably see a fall. On top of this some people only collect games they like, or rare games. depending on the number of people in these groups, you should see reflective price changes. Right now most people who collect rare, crappy games won't pay more than a few bucks for them, if people unaturally raised the prices on these games, I'm not sure if collectors would collect them.(Some are so horrible , they're unplayable). some will pay, but probably not enough to sustain a high price. Games will probably stick to closer to true supply and demand, then collectable cards did. Games have a higher price to start collecting at. Now games could be like Cards in that. they could follow hype(which has been partially true with ebay), and we would see a crash in prices eventually as the higher prices would drive out collectors who can't afford the prices. If this were the case, I don't think I'd be upset either. I'd love to buy some games at half a price guide value.

It should be interesting to see how it turns out, but honestly I'm not that worried.

[zmweasel]

N/A