X-Box 2 specs released!

[GameGuru]

GameInformer magazine had some info on the new X-Box. No harddrive! Argh.


• Three IBM-designed 64-bit microprocessors. The combined power of these chips means the Xbox Next will have more computing power than most personal computers. Earlier versions of these PowerPC chips are used in Apple Computer's high-end G5 PowerMac machines now.
• A graphics chip designed by ATI Technologies with speeds much faster than its upcoming R400 chip for the personal computer. This chip will help the next Xbox to display games with the resolution of high-definition TV.

• Compatibility with the original Xbox, which is based on Intel and Nvidia chips, isn't guaranteed. Microsoft is concerned it would cost too much money in hardware or in licensing fees to enable the Xbox Next to play old Xbox games. This is risky in part because Sony's strategy has been to maintain compatibility with its old consoles.

The article also states that there will not be a hard drive in Xbox 2 and that flash memory will be used instead. Xbox 2 will have between 256 and 512 megabytes of DRAM.

[MarioAllStar2600]

I am happy to see that it plays old X-box games to. :-P :D :-P :D
Now we just gotta hope Nintendo can come up with a system to kick the crap out of that. I doubt it will happen though. :o :o

[GameGuru]

I am happy to see that it plays old X-box games to. :-P :D :-P :D
Now we just gotta hope Nintendo can come up with a system to kick the crap out of that. I doubt it will happen though. :o :o

Read again, it is unconfirmed and from the sounds of it they won't be adding X-Box compatibility citing costs of hardware and license fees.

[Jasoco]

Yeah. In order to keep Xbox 1 game play, they'd ALSO have to relicense the Intel chips. In essence, put a whle Xbox 1 in there. And tat would cost a lot of money. So it's a good idea to not do it.

Remember, when you make something backwards compatable, you have to either use the same rocesors, or include the old ones as well as the new ones.

The Genesis does this. But in order to do it with the Saturn, they would have had to include the Genny's processor as well. Money.

The Game Boy's still do this because the new GBA also includes the original GB's processor.

I wonder. Isn't the next Nintendo system gonna also be IBM like it is now? So basically, Nintendo could do BW Compatability. And what about the PS2? What does it use? Is it what the PS3 will use? Or are they dumping compatability with the 3?

I just wish the companies would get some prototype designs released.

[swlovinist]

No hard drive? Might not be backwards compatable? It seems that Nintendo is not the only blunder around here making poor choices! I wont say anything final until the unit is shipped and I have played it, but what the heck? Proving once again, they dont know what the hell they are doing!

[Jasoco]

Listen. Sit down and think for a second.

Backwards compatability REQUIRES you to include the same or compatable processor. IBM and Intel are NOT compatable. (Look at the whole Mac/PC thing.) And Microsoft knows that IBM is the way to go. So Intel is out of the question. If Microsoft wanted to put compatability, they'd HAVE to ALSO include Intel chips. MONEY. Do you want to pay a hundred MORE just to be able to play your older games? I didn't think so.

It's not so much them being STUPID as them knowing the average player won't want to pay a lot more for this muffler. Get it?

:hmm:

As for the HD thing. Well, I don't know. Not many people use the whole HD anyway. So most of it's a waste. But that will prove to be a blunder for the people who like to rip their CD's and listen to custom music. Or Linux porters.

[GaijinPunch]

There was a thread about this on xbox-scene.com. Someone had a good point there. If the PS3 has a hard drive, so will the Xbox2.

They've gotta have a way to save content for online games, otherwise they're shooting themselves in the balls.

[Half Japanese]

If the new Xbox doesn't have a hard drive I'll just wait to see what else comes out. To me, that's one of the Xbox's best features, that and online games...and if I have to fill up four damn memory cards just to be able to play online games (with updates) then screw it. KEEP THE DAMN HARD DRIVE. I DON'T CARE ABOUT BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY (although using the same controllers/peripherals would be nice, and that's really what sold a lot of people on the ps2 anyways).

[Jasoco]

Exactly. If I can't use my BIG Xbox controller on the next system in one way or another (Because I KNOW they'll try to shove the S-Controller down my throat.) I will be pretty pissed.

But it'll take a good game to get me to buy it. Or ask for it for Christmas. Either way.

[Jaker]

Man, no compatibility with Xbox original. They might lose some $$$ by making that move. Oh well, all I know is that I have an Xbox, and i'll buy Xbox Next. 8-)

[udisi]

I don't know internal flash memory would be cool. if it will be large enogh to save game files and online downloads. really for the average xbox gamer the harddrive is bigger then you'll ever need. as long as the don't go to small ass memory cards. I'll be happy.

[tynstar]

As for the HD thing. Well, I don't know. Not many people use the whole HD anyway. So most of it's a waste.

??? All TV is heading that way in 5 or so years HDTV will be the standard or close to the standard. HD TV's are getting cheaper and cheaper. To me that it is a big deal. I already play my X-Box and GameCube in HD and it rocks :rocker:

[Jasoco]

As for the HD thing. Well, I don't know. Not many people use the whole HD anyway. So most of it's a waste.

??? All TV is heading that way in 5 or so years HDTV will be the standard or close to the standard. HD TV's are getting cheaper and cheaper. To me that it is a big deal. I already play my X-Box and GameCube in HD and it rocks :rocker:Read the whole thread.

HD = HARD DRIVE

:hmm:

[sisko]

Listen. Sit down and think for a second.

Backwards compatability REQUIRES you to include the same or compatable processor. IBM and Intel are NOT compatable. (Look at the whole Mac/PC thing.) And Microsoft knows that IBM is the way to go. So Intel is out of the question. If Microsoft wanted to put compatability, they'd HAVE to ALSO include Intel chips. MONEY. Do you want to pay a hundred MORE just to be able to play your older games? I didn't think so.

It's not so much them being STUPID as them knowing the average player won't want to pay a lot more for this muffler. Get it?

:hmm:

As for the HD thing. Well, I don't know. Not many people use the whole HD anyway. So most of it's a waste. But that will prove to be a blunder for the people who like to rip their CD's and listen to custom music. Or Linux porters.

I'm not so sure about that. All they would need Xbox 2 to do would be to emulate the games, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the PS2 does for PS1 games?

I'm kind of a novice to this sort of thing, but if you can write an emulator for mac to play NES games, and an emulator for PC to play the same NES games, why not XBox?

Granted I also don't know how feasible it is to emulate 128bit games....

[Ed Oscuro]

HD = HARD DRIVE

:hmm:

ololol! :P

Anyhow, wow, I never had thought about the problem of using Intel chips. Intel's stuff isn't designed with putting it on a chip in mind.

If I was working at Microsoft on this Xbox Next (or is that NeXt -- Steve Jobs is probably shaking his head right now, but I guess you have to learn from the masters) I'd have a really funny feeling in my stomach. Actually, I do right now.

or is that because I need to write a paper? Hmm...

I do think the XBox Next will be a powerful machine, but more powerful than the PS3 may turn out to be? It may be a more intuitive design for developers to work with (that's not saying much, though, is it? 3 processors?) but, again, Microsoft really should invest in XBox 1 compatibility.

That, or rerelease the Xbox and make it stackable with the new XBox NeXt, plugging in the bottom, say.

[Jasoco]

I'm not so sure about that. All they would need Xbox 2 to do would be to emulate the games, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the PS2 does for PS1 games?

I'm kind of a novice to this sort of thing, but if you can write an emulator for mac to play NES games, and an emulator for PC to play the same NES games, why not XBox?

Granted I also don't know how feasible it is to emulate 128bit games....Because it's not the same thing.

Have you seen how slow PC emulators are on the Mac? They work, but not very fast.

But maybe that's why Microsoft bought Virtual PC? To integrate the technology into the next system?

Emulating a whole new processor isn't as easy as it seems.

Especially when it's a Console emulating a Console.

[Ed Oscuro]

Emulating a whole new processor isn't as easy as it seems.

Especially when it's a Console emulating a Console.

At least we aren't talking about emulating a full fledged computer system here. I think another big challenge is that it's doubtful Intel would let Microsoft emulate the current hardware (supposing it would be feasible on the new system). Interesting indeed.

[scooterb23]

And Microsoft knows that IBM is the way to go.

Anyone else see the humor in this union??

IBM has been running a series of commercials which basically say "Linux is the Future" O_O

OK, maybe I'm the only one who sees it as funny...

[portnoyd]

So are they going to put a halfway decent CD/DVD drive in the XBox2, or will it take 3 revisions to get an XBox that last more than 1-2 years?

I know I was annoyed when my XBox crapped out.

But on a happier note, anyone want to do some sidebets on how long after release it'll take somebody to hack the thing like they did with the first one?

dave

[Jasoco]

Emulating a whole new processor isn't as easy as it seems.

Especially when it's a Console emulating a Console.

At least we aren't talking about emulating a full fledged computer system here.Technically, it still doesn't matter. All VPC really has to emulate is the processor. Mac's and PC's are basically the same thing. The processor is the real difference. They both have HD's, Sound cards, monitors, keyboards, mice, CD/DVD drives, etc. When it comes down to it, the processor is the real difference.

Still, yes. It would be licensing fees that would stop them. Having to include a whole separate processor in there just for compatibility is the least of their worries.

[Jasoco]

Yes. IBM and Microsoft have an odd past. So do Apple and IBM.

Microsoft and IBM were working together on OS/2 which was supposed to become a big theng. Microsoft pulls a fast one. Yadda, yadda.

Apple called IBM "Big Brother" back in the day. Back then they were.

Now Apple is using IBM processors in their Macs.

Microsoft is using IBM processors in the Xbox2.

What a crazy world we live in. x_x

[SoulBlazer]

Don't forget taht we're playing Microsoft video games in our homes and Sega games on our Nintendo systems. x_x

[Jasoco]

Don't forget taht we're playing Microsoft video games in our homes and Sega games on our Nintendo systems. x_xI know!

I was at Nintendo.com the other day and read the two news item headlines "SEGA announces..", "SEGA releases.."

It felt so... weird to see the word SEGA in Nintendo's website. I mean after years of fighting.

[AB Positive]

Jasoco: the PS1 is emulated on the PS2, it doesn't have the same chips inside the machine for backwards compatibility. It wouldn't be hard for a triple processor machine to emulate the XBOX if they know what they're doing.


That said, this is Microsoft and they're doing hardware, not software. I hope they don't know what they're doing. I know I'm anti-Microsoft but for good reasons and I wish they'd just go away.

-AG

[Ed Oscuro]

Emulating a whole new processor isn't as easy as it seems.

Especially when it's a Console emulating a Console.

At least we aren't talking about emulating a full fledged computer system here.Technically, it still doesn't matter. All VPC really has to emulate is the processor. Mac's and PC's are basically the same thing. The processor is the real difference. They both have HD's, Sound cards, monitors, keyboards, mice, CD/DVD drives, etc. When it comes down to it, the processor is the real difference.

Oh yeah, nevermind that real computers have something called an "Operating System." I hear this newest Windows is a real resource hog ;) There's an obvious bit of difference between the stripped down Win2K kernel running on the XBox and its small OS compared to a PC. I'm not sure you know I was talking about XBox versus PC, however...so I'll go easy.

Bump what Adam G said. The PS2 emulates the original PSX; and the PS3's going to have a PS2 "on a chip," perhaps even past the design stage now and ready for production. Putting an original XBox on a chip would be difficult because Intel doesn't design their stuff that way -- they just move onto the next processor design -- but it's possible. In any case, Microsoft should have some sort of plan to cover this possibility.

[Epicenter]

Actually, the GBA does NOT contain a Z80-workalike like the chip in the Game Boy. It uses an emulator built into its ROM to play the older games. Also, the MegaDrive/Genesis and Saturn's Z80/68000 respectively were included as sound processors, but they also maintained backward compatibility.

[Epicenter]

It seems doubtful Microsoft will put a PPC chip into the XBox 2 or whatever the hell they name this hunk of junk. The XBox was a slow, comprimised PC in an ugly, cumbersome, undercooled case. Because it's a PC, it used the x86 architecture .. making PC games a breeze to 'port' over to it. Not hard, seeing as it's just a PC running Windows 2000. The PPC architecture would require a LOT more work on MS and developers' part in order to get games working. Plus, with Windows 2000 sitting between the CPUs and the games, it's still going to be slow, because the CPUs cannot operate to the fullest of their potential with anything more than a BIOS in the way.

[GameGuru]

I bet Microsoft changes and includes a hard drive, it only makes sense like others have said for downloaded content.

[Tritoch]

Jasoco: the PS1 is emulated on the PS2, it doesn't have the same chips inside the machine for backwards compatibility. It wouldn't be hard for a triple processor machine to emulate the XBOX if they know what they're doing.
-AG

The PS2 DOES NOT emulate the PS1. The PS2 includes as it's Input/Output processor an original PS1 CPU, which it uses to play PS1 games in addition to handling I/O functions (smart move). So in essence, it does have the original chip inside the machine to handle backwards compatibility.

[GameGuru]

Jasoco: the PS1 is emulated on the PS2, it doesn't have the same chips inside the machine for backwards compatibility. It wouldn't be hard for a triple processor machine to emulate the XBOX if they know what they're doing.
-AG

If a PC can't currently emulate PS1 games correctly how is a much less powerful PS2 gonna? It has to have PS1 hardware inside also.

[Raedon]

I still have no real reason to pick up an X-Box.. I've seen them for $99 and ehh..

My friend uses his X-Box for a file server.. Every once in a while I'll boot up DOA:EV w/nude hack but that's it. I'd rather see that ATI chip in the PS3 because whatever sony is going to get will be just a little more powerful then a 1988 Yugo.

[jonjandran]

If a PC can't currently emulate PS1 games correctly how is a much less powerful PS2 gonna? It has to have PS1 hardware inside also.

My pc with Epsxe and the cd image on the harddrive emulates PS1 perfectly . In fact it looks and sounds better.

Maybe you need a new PC . :hmm:

[ddockery]

Can someone explain the appeal of backwards compatibility to me? I mean for a portable it's a big deal, because nobody wants to carry both around. For a home system I don't see the big deal either way. If you already have the old games, you have the old system. If somebody doesn't have the old system, I doubt they'd be buying the new one for the old games anyway. I mean sure, it's a bit of a convenience, but for the average person I don't see the backwards compatibility issue swaying many people.

[jonjandran]

The PS2 DOES NOT emulate the PS1. The PS2 includes as it's Input/Output processor an original PS1 CPU, which it uses to play PS1 games in addition to handling I/O functions (smart move). So in essence, it does have the original chip inside the machine to handle backwards compatibility.

Ding , Ding, Ding We have a winner.

I/O Processor:

CPU Core: Current PlayStation CPU
Clock Frequency: 33.8 MHz or 37.5 MHz (selectable)
Sub Bus: 32 Bit
Interface Types: IEEE1394, Universal Serial Bus (USB)
Communication via PC-Card PCMCIA
Disc Media: DVD-ROM (CDROM compatible)


And thanks to the new system's standard I/O CPU, it is 100% compatible with all existing PlayStation games. The I/O unit is essentially the PlayStation's CPU, and since the system can utilize standard CDs, every game made for Sony's first game system will play on its next generation unit.

[crashdummycow01]

i still think the NeXtbox will have a hard drive.. but if it doesnt, and it isnt backwards compatible.. i'm not gonna cry about it... they've said that for them to make it backwards compatible that they will have to put in extra hardware... which will probably cost a good bit.. plus the hard drive which would probably be about $100 or less.. or more? dunno.. it'd be around $100..

so if the NeXtbox comes out and isnt backwards compatible and doesnt have a hard drive and costs around $300 or $400.. i'd gladly pay that much.. instead of maybe paying $500-$600 with backwards compatability and the extra hardware..

also i must say that with that extra hardware and the hard drive not put it.. there might be a chance that the NeXtbox will be slimmer than the Xbox 1.. maybe weigh a little less..

i'd like to see the companies work on making the systems more compact..like gamecube seems to be doing..i myself would like the systems to use the type of drives where u just slip the disc in.. in my opinion that could save SOME space... and also make the time it takes u to get a disc in and out alot smaller.

[Jasoco]

I have an Xbox.

It won't matter to me either that the Xbox2 doesn't have this or that.

[GameGuru]

If a PC can't currently emulate PS1 games correctly how is a much less powerful PS2 gonna? It has to have PS1 hardware inside also.

My pc with Epsxe and the cd image on the harddrive emulates PS1 perfectly . In fact it looks and sounds better.

Maybe you need a new PC . :hmm:

PSone games are now emulated perfect on the PC? Last I tried I had weird artifacting, slow down etc. I have a 2500+, 1GB RAM and GeForce 4 Ti4200 with 128MB ram and I experience the problems listed above. So you are telling me that the PC is running Playstation games absolutely perfect like the PS2? If this is true I am amazed but regardless there is no way the PS2 could run PSone games in emulation, it just isn't powerful enough. There has to be a PSone chipset in the PS2.

Anyone engineers here that has looked at the PS2 schematics and can show a PSone chipset?

[jonjandran]

PSone games are now emulated perfect on the PC? Last I tried I had weird artifacting, slow down etc. I have a 2500+, 1GB RAM and GeForce 4 Ti4200 with 128MB ram and I experience the problems listed above. So you are telling me that the PC is running Playstation games absolutely perfect like the PS2? If this is true I am amazed but regardless there is no way the PS2 could run PSone games in emulation, it just isn't powerful enough. There has to be a PSone chipset in the PS2.


I have tried a lot of ps1 games and no slowdown or glitches when run from the harddrive.

And as mentioned twice before, the PS2's I/O Processor is the PS1's CPU. So NO there is no PS1 emulation on the PS2 . It is all done with a PS1 chip in the PS2.

[swlovinist]

I am still saying that Microsoft is stupid if they dont have the system backwards compatable. The average gamer IS going to expect it, as they did with the PS2. If the PS2 is going to be backwards compatable, then this is yet anoither thing the PS3 is going to have over the Xbox. After thinking about it, I can see why they are not putting in a HD, but as for the comatability thing...THE AVERAGE GAMER WILL NOT BE THE ONLY ONE PISSED! :angry:

[brykasch]

First remember we are basing all our discussion of a magazine article, lets wait until MS announces things officially before we get all pissy:)

Now with that aside MS needs this in its next system, wether we get is up to debate

4 Controller ports
Ability to read cd-r dammnit!
Wireless ethernet built in
hard drive (we really need this dammnit I am tired of dealing with memory cards)
I would prefer backwards compatibility but hell if the system specs blow everything else away I can live with it. I had planned on keeping hte old one for a emu/entertainment hub, and I can always pick up another for that.

And for people who complained about the dvd drive, buy an ext warranty from ms, if you can afford 300 for a system you can afford the extra 50 for this. Especially after the crappy designs from sony

[EnemyZero]

All TV is heading that way in 5 or so years HDTV will be the standard or close to the standard. HD TV's are getting cheaper and cheaper. To me that it is a big deal. I already play my X-Box and GameCube in HD and it rocks


Try 2 years , may 2006 is the cutoff for broadcasts to turn over to HD (I sell tv's for a living) :P

Ok first of all...NOT including a hard drive is what xbox should of done in the first place...because 2 reasons.
A)Even when xbox first came out at 299 it was loosing 100 bucks a pop BECAUSE of the hard drive
B)Do you realize how much more money they could of made through memory cards????

Personally I dont give a damn about backwards compatability, I still use my ps1 and honostly...why would anyone be all in a bunch about compatability...when xbox 2, gamecube 2, and ps3 come out....you will be able to pick of the older ones for like 50 bucks for godsakes...

Also PS3 wont be compatable with PS1 games...

[jonjandran]

Try 2 years , may 2006 is the cutoff for broadcasts to turn over to HD (I sell tv's for a living) :P
...

HAhahahahahah

The first cut-off came and went and was ignored and the second one will probably be ignored also.
Most stations just can't afford to go to HDTV..

It's just another one of those gimmicks to get you to but the new HDTV's . Oh you better get it now because you're gonna have to have it in 2 years. x_x

[Raedon]

HAhahahahahah

The first cut-off came and went and was ignored and the second one will probably be ignored also.
Most stations just can't afford to go to HDTV..

It's just another one of those gimmicks to get you to but the new HDTV's . Oh you better get it now because you're gonna have to have it in 2 years. x_x


Hmm.. What a paranoid, uneducated answer. All the local TV affiliates in my area have already moved to HDTV Prime-Time content.. You can get it off the Antenna.

They have all MADE the switch, Some in Dallas already do the News in HDTV. Any that don't make the switch now loose contracts to Cable and Satellite providers because they will go where they can get the HDTV content.

Here are just what the local stations in my area are doing.

out of Sheveport.

KTBS-DT(digital TV) - ABC -Nighttime Schedule all HDTV including football
KLTS-DT- PBS -24/7 HDTV
KSLA-DT- CBS -Daytime Young & Restless HDTV, All Nightime and Superbowl
HDTV

out of Dallas

KXAS-DT - NBC - only local news in HDTV (as of Dec 03)
KTBT-DT CBS - Better then KSLA
KDFW-DT - fox - Next fall HDTV
KERA-DT - PBS - 24/7 HDTV
WFAA-DT- ABC - same
WDAF-DT - WB - night HDTV
KTXA-DT - UPN - same.


I wouldn't buy a HDTV not because of the standard of HDTV but because I want to wait to see if DLP works well over time or if LCD will find a way etc..

[Jasoco]

"Also the meat is. - Intellectual way"

:hmm: