What's an MSX?

[orrimarrko]

I enjoy the guide, but the rarity lists don't contain photos or historical info about the system.

Does anyone know more about this or point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Steve

[digitalpress]

I enjoy the guide, but the rarity lists don't contain photos or historical info about the system.

Does anyone know more about this or point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Steve

When in doubt, consult the FAQ archive.

http://www.digitpress.com/faq

There's a link in there to a great MSX resource, pretty much everything there is to know about MSX.

[Ed Oscuro]

MSX is the name of a standard for computers. ASCII Corp. held the trademark, Microsoft provided the OS in its early years (I believe they got out before the MSX 2 or the MSX 2 +, not sure which).

MSX computers are usually a computer-in-a-keyboard that plugs into a NTSC TV (among other things), take cartridges, and can be expanded to use 3.5 inch floppies.

Konami's games for the system are probably the most famous, such as Snatcher (actually a so-so port of the original on NEC's PC-9801), Metal Gear series games (2 being one of the most expensive titles on the whole system), wierd "ports" of Contra and Castlevania, and a neat shooter called Firebird (Hino Tori).

It's one of the (four?) systems to get a port of the game Undead Line, as well.

Probably one of the most popular Japanese persocons before the time of the x68K.

Hope that's helpful :)

[Ze_ro]

The short answer is that it's an 8-bit Japanese computer that was very similar to the ColecoVision in terms of power.

--Zero

[o2william]

Wasn't Vampire Killer on MSX actually the first game in the Castlevania series (if you count it as a "true" CV game, that is)?


persocons

Never saw that one before. Better reread my Newspeak dictionary. :)

[AB Positive]

persocon = Personal Co(n)mputer. Japanese replaces the m's with n's and then shortens the two words to make a nifty single word to describe something.

much like Puroresu = Pro Wrestling.

-AG

[Ed Oscuro]

Wasn't Vampire Killer on MSX actually the first game in the Castlevania series (if you count it as a "true" CV game, that is)?

This was the subject of some debate back a while ago on the Castlevania Dungeon Forums...I got called drunk (well, by a friend ;) before we found a Japanese page with release dates for all the games (Sugimo's CV page is the name, great place, has release dates and prices for even the rereleases, good stuff). Anyhow, the FDS original was released on 9/26, 1986, and "Vampire Killer," the MSX 2 title (same name, that's just the European release title came about a month or so later.



persocons

Never saw that one before. Better reread my Newspeak dictionary. :)

It's a Japanese term, which I learned from the one and only Eric Roman, the only fellow in New York unafraid to mix up Parodius, Gradius, Castlevania, All Your Base, the 9/11 attacks, and Slogra in a flash movie (Parovadius, so it's called; he recently showed me a site where a Japanese fellow was trying to re-translate the "frash" back into Japanese, noting "the use of misspelling seems conspiciously intentional...").

Good times!

[Ed Oscuro]

persocon = Personal Co(n)mputer. Japanese replaces the m's with n's and then shortens the two words to make a nifty single word to describe something.

much like Puroresu = Pro Wrestling.

-AG

Ah, thanks Adam, explained it better than I did. I never quite understood the mechanics of that.

[Ze_ro]

Wasn't Vampire Killer on MSX actually the first game in the Castlevania series?

Also worth noting is that the MSX is the only system to get a "proper" sequel to the original Metal Gear. The NES got Metal Gear, and a sequel called Snake's Revenge... But I've heard that the guy responsible for the rest of the Metal Gear games (I forget what his name is) wasn't involved with Snake's Revenge... instead, he made "Metal Gear 2" on the MSX, which was a completely different game.

I'm not a fan of the series though, so please correct me if I screwed some of that up.

--Zero

[Ed Oscuro]

No, no, you're spot on :)

Hideo Kojima is the name. I'm not exactly sure how all his games fit together in terms of the timeframe, and I'm especially not sure about Snatcher for the MSX 2 -- that game seems to be a rather bad (in some respects, some not really necessary but still nice to have features don't work, game hangs when you press some buttons, etc) port of that NEC computer one. Other than that, though, his early work seems to have appeared almost exclusively on the MSX 2. In fact, as I understand it, he was hired to work on Metal Gear (his own creation, of course) as his first project at Konami, I'm not sure if he had previous experience with that computer system though...or how much programming-type stuff he did...there are many gaps in the knowledge base, unfortunately.

[opcode]

Konami's games for the system are probably the most famous, such as Snatcher (actually a so-so port of the original on NEC's PC-9801)

Sorry, but it isn't correct. Snatcher was originally released for both the MSX2 and PC88 (which isn't the same as the PC98) back in October 88. Later the MSX got a RPG version of the same game, named SD Snatcher.


Probably one of the most popular Japanese persocons before the time of the x68K.

Again not correct. MSX sold more 4 million in Japan, while the X68K sold just a few hundreds of thousand. Also, the PC98 was several times more popular than both the X68K or the MSX. The main reason for the demise of the MSX standard was that almost all makers were big consumer electronic Japanese companies, like Sony and Panasonic, which weren't happy to sell just a "few millions", even more if you take into account there were dozens of MSX makers selling machines at the same time. No sufficient market share for all of them...

Eduardo Mello

About the Metal Gear series, Hideo Kojima worked on the MSX versions only. The Famicom versions were programmed by someone else. Even the first Famicom's Metal Gear isn't exactly like the MSX version, and Kojima himself has expressed some concern about the port in a past interview (which unfortunately I wasn't able to locate again). His first game was an unreleased Super Mario clone for the MSX...

Eduardo Mello

[Jasoco]

persocon = Personal Co(n)mputer. Japanese replaces the m's with n's and then shortens the two words to make a nifty single word to describe something.

much like Puroresu = Pro Wrestling.

-AGThen why is it called "Famicom" and not "Fanicon"?

[Ed Oscuro]

Konami's games for the system are probably the most famous, such as Snatcher (actually a so-so port of the original on NEC's PC-9801)

Sorry, but it isn't correct. Snatcher was originally released for both the MSX2 and PC88 (which isn't the same as the PC98) back in October 88. Later the MSX got a RPG version of the same game, named SD Snatcher.

http://junkerhq.net/SnatcherScans/MSX2/info.html

Unless this site is wrong in claiming the MSX 2 version came out in Dec. '88, I think I'm right here.

The game comes with a release note which is translated like this:


1. Do not use PAUSE or SPEED CONTROL of MSX under any circumstance. Such act may disturb proper game operation.

2. Be understood that the MSX version Snatcher (RA004) does not support conversation tone mute by CAPS key.

3. Do not swap disks until a disk swap instruction appears in the screen. Swapping disks when an instruction to do so is not displayed may destroy the disk and disturb proper game operation.

4. Understand that this game is not supported by "Konami's geemu wo 10 bai tanoshimu kaatorijji" or "Konami no shin 10 bai kaatorijji" [GM and GM2 carts, that allow game saves, screenshots, and other operation with Konami MSX cartridge games]

The importance of all this is that it looks like this version was possibly rushed...it doesn't prove that the MSX 2 version is a "port" of the PC-9801, I'll give you that. It does seem quite possible to me, though, as the original Metal Gear was an MSX exclusive and you'd think that version would be more polished. Of course, it's probably more likely that the game pushed the MSX 2 further than Metal Gear and thus there wasn't room/time to include or worry about compatibility with the extras...



Probably one of the most popular Japanese persocons before the time of the x68K.

Again not correct. MSX sold more 4 million in Japan, while the X68K sold just a few hundreds of thousand. Also, the PC98 was several times more popular than both the X68K or the MSX.

I can see that. I stand corrected.


His first game was an unreleased Super Mario clone for the MSX...

I see...Lost World.

[opcode]

Sorry, but it isn't correct. Snatcher was originally released for both the MSX2 and PC88 (which isn't the same as the PC98) back in October 88. Later the MSX got a RPG version of the same game, named SD Snatcher.

http://junkerhq.net/SnatcherScans/MSX2/info.html

Unless this site is wrong in claiming the MSX 2 version came out in Dec. '88, I think I'm right here.

The game comes with a release note which is translated like this:


1. Do not use PAUSE or SPEED CONTROL of MSX under any circumstance. Such act may disturb proper game operation.

2. Be understood that the MSX version Snatcher (RA004) does not support conversation tone mute by CAPS key.

3. Do not swap disks until a disk swap instruction appears in the screen. Swapping disks when an instruction to do so is not displayed may destroy the disk and disturb proper game operation.

4. Understand that this game is not supported by "Konami's geemu wo 10 bai tanoshimu kaatorijji" or "Konami no shin 10 bai kaatorijji" [GM and GM2 carts, that allow game saves, screenshots, and other operation with Konami MSX cartridge games]

The importance of all this is that it looks like this version was possibly rushed...it doesn't prove that the MSX 2 version is a "port" of the PC-9801, I'll give you that. It does seem quite possible to me, though, as the original Metal Gear was an MSX exclusive and you'd think that version would be more polished. Of course, it's probably more likely that the game pushed the MSX 2 further than Metal Gear and thus there wasn't room/time to include or worry about compatibility with the extras... [/quote]

Well, I remember both versions were advertised together (I still have the original ads here), so even if the the PC88 version came out a few months earlier, I think both were developed concurrently. Anyway I must admit probably the PC88 version was the "master" one, as the MSX version used graphics from the PC88. It's easy to spot PC88 graphics, since this machine was able to produce just 8 colors at the same time. Considering PC88 resolution was reasonably high (640 pixels horizontally), many developers used a lot of dithering to produce more colors. If you look closely, even the MSX version uses just 8 colors, and the dithering becomes even more evident since the MSX2 is limited to 512 pixels horizontally.
About the bugs, maybe the problem was that Snatcher was the first Konami disk game for the MSX. Beside, pause and speed control were custom features added by some makers, not something officially supported by the standard. In fact speed control used to lock several games, not just Snatcher. I think it was due to video access timings mostly.

Eduardo Mello

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I remember both versions were advertised together (I still have the original ads here), so even if the the PC88 version came out a few months earlier, I think both were developed concurrently. Anyway I must admit probably the PC88 version was the "master" one, as the MSX version used graphics from the PC88. It's easy to spot PC88 graphics, since this machine was able to produce just 8 colors at the same time. Considering PC88 resolution was reasonably high (640 pixels horizontally), many developers used a lot of dithering to produce more colors. If you look closely, even the MSX version uses just 8 colors, and the dithering becomes even more evident since the MSX2 is limited to 512 pixels horizontally.

Ah, thanks. I'm surprised I haven't been able to locate many PC-9801 games or hardware...need to check out Yahoo! Auctions Japan, I suppose, but I'm surprised none of it comes over here.

Anyhow, I came across an interesting bit of text:

[quote][Around 1990-1992]...the management of LAOX, Japan's largest retailer of PC computers (holding a fifty percent market share), projected that within two to three years the market would primarily be divided between NEC with 45 percent, DOS/V machines with 30 percent, and Apple with 20 percent. Changing technology was also putting DOS/V on a more equal footing with NEC. For example, an analysis of software applications for the new 486 PCs revealed that DOS/V had a 29.2 percent share of the applications. NEC 9801-based PCs still held a dominant 65.6 percent of the new applications. Other systems accounted for only 5.3 percent.

That more or less pounds THAT point right in like a tent stake! No doubt, the PC-9801 was still kicking. However, I wonder what the market was like by the time the x68K appeared. Interestingly, NEC's approach to use proprietary systems made it much harder to develop software as you had to make all sorts of versions for the various standards and proprietary formats out there...this opened the door for Compaq to enter the market around 1991.


About the bugs, maybe the problem was that Snatcher was the first Konami disk game for the MSX. Beside, pause and speed control were custom features added by some makers, not something officially supported by the standard. In fact speed control used to lock several games, not just Snatcher. I think it was due to video access timings mostly.

Yeah, that's what I was starting to realize would be the most likely reason. Harder (or impossible, possibly, with Pause) to add that sort of stuff :)

[IntvGene]

Well, this thread has reminded me to get back to something that I've been meaning to do for a long while, and that is get my MSX games working on my DC. But, I forgot how many great games were released on the MSX in Japan...

The Activision clones: Alcazar, HERO, Keystone Kapers, Pitfall I + II, Pastfinder...

The Arcade games: Mappy, Mr.Do's Wild Ride, Bosconian, R-Type, Twinbee, Rally-X, etc.

Plus all the Japanese games... And all of that's still only the MSX1...

I'm in emulation heaven. :)

[vincewy]

There's also the first LD game platform ever released, MSX Palcom, I think the LD player links to the computer if I'm correct, there're about 16 or so LD games. Unfortunately, the player is almost impossible to find these days.

[Ed Oscuro]

There's also the first LD game platform ever released, MSX Palcom, I think the LD player links to the computer if I'm correct, there're about 16 or so LD games. Unfortunately, the player is almost impossible to find these days.

REALLY. I just found an eBay action for an old video editing MSX (one) that had a LD interface. That's fascinating.

[vincewy]

Here's the link about the system

http://www.hchistory.de/hc_show_comp.php?suche=pioneer_px7;lang=de

The player is nearly impossible to find, due to durability of LD players and time frame. You'll need MSX computer along with Pioneer PX7 LD player in order to play those LD games, they come with triangular labels, games include Badlands.

I'll dig more info and edit this post later.

[ManekiNeko]

There are tons and tons and TONS of MSX games which could theoretically be converted into ColecoVision titles. In fact, there are so many that it would take fourteen generations of Mellos to port them all. :D

Here are some fun facts for anyone interested... the Buster Bros. series actually began on the MSX, only it was called "Cannon Ball" and released by Hudson Soft, not Capcom. Also, the Bomberman series had its start on the MSX over twenty years ago (!!). It played a lot like the first NES version of Bomberman, except the screen scrolled vertically and your character was a chubby guy in a dumb-looking hat, rather than the cute l'il robot which we've come to associate with the series.

JR

[ManekiNeko]

There's also the first LD game platform ever released, MSX Palcom, I think the LD player links to the computer if I'm correct, there're about 16 or so LD games. Unfortunately, the player is almost impossible to find these days.

I wonder if that was going to be the template for the rumored ColecoVision LaserDisc interface? The two systems are an awful lot alike, you know.

JR