Playing old DOS games on new PC's?

[buttasuperb]

I been thinking about collecting some of my old favorite PC's games recently (Space Quest series, LSL series, Cannon Fodder, etc)

Yesterday I downloaded Cannon Fodder for DOS. When I ran it, it would just go to a black screen and that's it.

What do I have to do to run old dos games? I'm running win2000.

[Ed Oscuro]

Think this would've done well in the forum that's dedicated to Vintage Computer Gaming...but then I don't visit it much.

I hear DOSBox is a good DOS emulator, but I have had absolutely no luck with it. It's out there, though.

[Raedon]

I wish I had an easy answer for you butta.. I use an old Sony Viao computer with WIN98 that a friend gave to me to play pre NT kernal games on.. it resides in my bedroom as a music server lol. but I use it mostly to play Eye of the Beholder and DOOM when I can't sleep.

[Flack]

There are two major problems you'll run into trying to play classic games: speed, and compatibility.

Speed problems are easily fixed. Tech TV has a list of programs (http://www.techtv.com/xplay/cheats/story/0,24330,3307218,00.html) that will help you slow down your computer for the purpose of playing older games.

The compatiblity issue is a bit tougher. There are quite a few older games that are not compatibile with Windows 2000's DOS. The bad news is, XP and 2003 are even worse. If you're truly hardcore, you can set up your machine to dual boot and leave a DOS partition (or at most a Win98 partition) to play some of those classics. I have an old 486 dx4/100 box sitting around just for this purpose.

I have heard about (but haven't tried) programs like Microsoft's Virtual PC where you can set up a virtual computer on your computer ... then set up that virtual computer to run DOS and play the games that way.

[YoshiM]

http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~vromas/vdmsound/ is the first step. This will allow you to emulate Sound Blaster sound for DOS games. Basically all you do is right click on the executable and select VDMSound from the menu and off you go.

Next would be to check www.ntcompatible.com to see if anyone has attempted to run the game you are interested in and what notes they left about getting it to work.

Depending on your CPU speed you may need to get one of those CPU slow down programs. The names of them escape me at the moment as I haven't really used them.

I've heard for emulating a slower PC Dosbox works, but I haven't really used it. VirtualPC works well but be prepared to pay a good chunk o' money for it.

Your best bet is to either install another hard drive or create a new FAT16 partition on your exisiting drive and either install DOS (then switch back and forth with a boot loader like System Commander) or boot with a disk. Then just pray your sound card is DOS and Sound Blaster compatible. The next best thing, if you have the room, is to get an older PC and a KVM box.

[YoshiM]

I have heard about (but haven't tried) programs like Microsoft's Virtual PC where you can set up a virtual computer on your computer ... then set up that virtual computer to run DOS and play the games that way.

I've tried the demo of VPC and it actually works well provided you have the CPU power to get decent emulation. My Athlon 600 couldn't quite play Pirates Gold that well but games like Jetpack were pretty OK, to give you a rough idea. I haven't tried it on my new Athlon 2200 yet.

[evilmess]

Connectix VPC works great and you can pick up the full version for cheap on ebay. Here's the thing about VPC, take whatever your computer spec are and cut them in half and thats what you'll have to play with when using VPC. Also if you have a fancy video card forget about it because VPC uses an emulated video driver but dont be discouraged from that because like I said it works great!

I am building a second PC (win98SE) to use in my mame cabinet that will also double as a DOS machine for older games. This costs me under $300 bucks using second hand parts and I'm sure you could come in even cheaper if you look around or already have old parts on hand.

Other options include setting up a daul boot system with win98 on one partition and win2k on the other or pick up a second hard drive and format it using win98 and just do a hard drive swap.

You might find http://www.ntcompatible.com/ helpful in figuring out how to get some DOS compatiblity going for certain games or setting up a dual boot system.

[le geek]

Conversely if you want to play the old Sierra games you could try Sarien

http://sarien.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,
Ben

[kainemaxwell]

I definitly gotta remember this topic for later.

[buttasuperb]

Oops, I forgot this forum was here. x_x

Thanks for the info everyone, looks like I may have some work to do.

Shitty thing is, my dad just gave away an old computer to the neighbors. I coulda used that thing.

[kainemaxwell]

Butta if i can ask, where'd you download CF from?

[Jorpho]

DOSBox really is coming along spectacularly. The latest 0.61 version is slightly problematic for me, but 0.60 suits my needs.

Bochs (http://bochs.sourceforge.net) is another idea. It is slow and difficult to configure, but it seems to be very compatible.

[calthaer]

DOSBox doesn't do everything. I set up my older 266MHz with MS-DOS 6.22 so that I can play the old classics. It runs beautifully...the original System Shock plays in all its 640x480 glory! The rest of the stuff (Virtual PC, partition) is just too much of a pain, considering how easy it is to find an old PC and install DOS / Win 3.1 / etc.

[BHvrd]

I use win98 and just edit the config.sys line to NOEMS on the extended memory line. Does the trick "with win98 anyway". For sound I just edit the autoexec.bat of course to include setpath=SB.

I think there is a way to edit these same lines on XP, but it involves a different procedure. I know i've read about it though, haven't tried though.

[Ze_ro]

DOSBox doesn't do everything. I set up my older 266MHz with MS-DOS 6.22 so that I can play the old classics.

This is probably the best bet... old school Pentium's can be had for fairly cheap, so the only real problem is that you have to find somewhere to actually set up yet another computer, which can be a pain in the butt. If you can find a cheap, older laptop, that would be much more convenient.

If you're really committed, and you really know your way around a computer, then you might be able to set your computer up to dual boot between DOS and Windows (and any other OS's you're interested in). You'll have to fiddle around with partitions, install a bootloader ([url=http://www.gnu.org/directory/grub.html]GRUB is a good one), and you'll still have issues with DOS possibly not being able to access your Windows partition (NTFS isn't DOS friendly), and finding DOS drivers for some of the more recent hardware might be tricky.

If you take any of the above options, you might also want to learn how to write menu's into your autoexec.bat and config.sys files. I used to do this "back in the days" in order to convince extremely finnicky games to run (Ultima VII comes to mind) and to be able to get the maximum amount of free RAM out of the system with the proper drivers loaded for specific games without bothering with boot disks. In fact, I even went as far as to "install" certain games onto disks that would automatically boot into DOS (also on the disk) and run the program with whatever drivers were needed... Unfortunately, you can't do this with large games, but it's handy for smaller games like Scorched Earth.

Dosbox is a good alternative though. It's not perfect yet, and you still need some pretty beefy hardware to run things perfectly... but it's getting better all the time.

--Zero

[Mr. Smashy]

I've actually just begun to rebuild a bunch of old systems that I have lying around the house. My current favorite project is a 486 DX2 running DOS 6.2. I can tell you that it beats the hell out of that Virtual PC stuff. It's like a time warp to 10 years ago for me. Maybe I can find somebody locally to take me on with a DOOM direct connect 14.4kbps death match.

I'm replaying Betrayal at Krondor right now and loving every second of it.

I think that I have 3 other 486 systems and maybe 2 Pentium systems at home that aren't doing much right now but at least 2 more should be operational by the end of the weekend. Any pre-plug and play ISA hardware and hard drives under 2 gigs are like gold to me right now :).

If I get a little crazy, I might try to get one of those 486 systems on a DSL connection. LOL

[mezrabad]

I can tell you that it beats the hell out of that Virtual PC stuff. It's like a time warp to 10 years ago for me. Maybe I can find somebody locally to take me on with a DOOM direct connect 14.4kbps death match.

What was the name of that Doom dial-up service? They had them in different cities and you paid 10 bucks a month to play. This was 1994, on the eve of the Web becoming popular. Can't think of their name.

You're right about the virtual PC stuff. Using an old computer (if you have one) is much more satisfying in the same way that using an actual console is more satisfying than an emulator.

Just before we left for overseas, I found two pcs in my neighbor's trash: a 486/DX2 80 (I think it was an AMD chip) system with an old monitor and a 420 MB hard drive and another which I don't actually remember specifically but it was in the same speed class. I'm going to find a null-modem cable and see if I can get any two player games working the old fashioned way.

If one doesn't have a few old PCs lying around, I also recommend DOSbox with Moslo. It seems to run what would've run on a 8088 up to a 286. It doesn't handle anything in protected mode and I don't think it emulates fast enough for any 386 level stuff, (at least on my p4 1.8ghz) though I've yet to really push it as I've just been dumping Infocom stuff into it. Heh.

[Raedon]

Oops, I forgot this forum was here. x_x

Thanks for the info everyone, looks like I may have some work to do.

Shitty thing is, my dad just gave away an old computer to the neighbors. I coulda used that thing.

Old companies are literally awash in old P133's with 32 meg ram etc.. also I run acruss old PC's at Goodwill all the time.

This summer, while garage sale hunting, ask if they have any older computers they like to get rid of.. I've been doing that for 3 years to get oooolder stuff but usually I get showed a 486dx66 that they say, "$5?"

[Raedon]

so the only real problem is that you have to find somewhere to actually set up yet another computer, which can be a pain in the butt.

This is a problem I have :( In order to make my place look nice and less "geeky" My collection computers reside in the closet.

[farfel]

My solution is to play the Commodore 64 or Amiga versions. Or else console versions. Not an elegant solution but I HATE messing with DOS.

[Mr. Smashy]

What was the name of that Doom dial-up service? They had them in different cities and you paid 10 bucks a month to play. This was 1994, on the eve of the Web becoming popular. Can't think of their name.


I'm pretty sure that it's DWANGO (Dial-up Wide Area Network Gaming Operation). Maybe they're fans of Ted Nugent. I don't really know.

[Jorpho]

If you're really committed, and you really know your way around a computer, then you might be able to set your computer up to dual boot between DOS and Windows (and any other OS's you're interested in). You'll have to fiddle around with partitions, install a bootloader (GRUB (http://www.gnu.org/directory/grub.html) is a good one), and you'll still have issues with DOS possibly not being able to access your Windows partition (NTFS isn't DOS friendly), and finding DOS drivers for some of the more recent hardware might be tricky.

I think the real problem there is that DOS does not support hard drives larger than 8 GB or so, IIRC. There's probably a way around it, but I doubt it's pretty.

[Ze_ro]

I'm not 100% sure... but I think FreeDOS (http://www.freedos.org) can handle large drives (The alternative being those horrible "Disk Manager" programs like Maxtor's Ontrack). Has anyone ever tried using FreeDOS for DOS gaming?

--Zero

[Jorpho]

I'm not sure about FreeDOS, but DR-DOS does have some limited large-drive capability. (In fact, the drfat32 driver works with other versions of DOS as well.) DR-DOS is still available for free and has some limited dual-booting capability built in.

[rbudrick]

Virtual PC is the best. A Windows emu that is availaible for Macs AND PCs.

I even have a Windows 3.1 virtual PC set up. Besides the whole graphics card thing, there's not much virtual PC can't do.

-Rob

[InfernalCheese]

Well I would have to say from personal experience that if you wish to take the easier path, DOSBox is the way to go. It runs all my old fav's on my newest machine (WinXP, AMD Athlon 2000+, 512 DDR, Geforce4 Ti 4400), such as Doom, Monkey Island, Full Throttle, Zork 8-) and Wolf3d with smooth joystick and sound emulation. Plus it's open source.

[kai123]

I have just recently started using dosbox and it is great. I haven't run into a problem yet. It plays everything great for me. I might get an older laptop just for the pure old school factor. :P

[RichD]

Has anyone tried out abandon loader available at http://www.angelfire.com/realm/zeroone/abandon.htm ?

Unfortunately the forum for this is long gone and I have not heard anything more on it for more than a year.

[The Unknown Gamer]

This only applies to LucasArts dos games, but if you have any I urge you to go to www.scummvm.org they have a sweet program that was actually used to test Maniac Mansion. But you can play just about any LucasArts DOS games on it (Just check compatilbilty list) on any computer regradless of clock speed, they also have some for free and legal game downloads including 2 games that were NEVER released.

By the way the reason it's legal is because they created the games originally.

[Jorpho]

Hwah? Beneath a Steel Sky and Flight of the Amazon Queen were definitely released commercially. Revolution, the company that made BASS, is still going strong with the Broken Sword series. I even bought a copy of BASS at a tradeshow two years ago. And FOTAQ was definitely not created by the ScummVM team.

[Ze_ro]

all my old fav's such as Doom, Monkey Island, Full Throttle, Zork 8-) and Wolf3d

Incidentally, all those games can be done completely without the need of any emulation at all. There are plenty of excellent source ports of Doom, many with greatly expanded abilities. Try Doom Legacy (http://legacy.newdoom.com/), ZDoom (http://www.zdoom.org/) or prBoom (http://prboom.sourceforge.net/) and some of the newer homebrew levels that take advantage of the newer engines and you'll see some stuff you'd never expect out of Doom (Sloped floors, moving floors, deep water, 3D models, and tons of other things).

Monkey Island and Full Throttle will likely work better through ScummVM (http://www.scummvm.org) than through Dosbox, with extra options like graphic filters, unlimited saves and whatnot.

Zork is probably best enjoyed with a good Z-Machine interpreter such as Frotz. With a Z-Machine interpreter at your disposal, you can also play all the rest of the Infocom text adventures as well as homebrew text adventures (http://www.ifarchive.org).

As for Wolf 3D, I'm disappointed to say that I'm not aware of any worthwhile updates of the source code... which is a shame, since this game is a true classic, yet for some reason always gets overshadowed by Doom, Duke Nukem 3D and Quake. However, there are always alternatives. Once you get a good Doom source port up and running, check out WolfenDOOM (http://www.doomworld.com/wolfendoom/). It's basically all the Wolfenstein levels (as well as all the weapons and enemies) redone within the Doom engine. They also have completely original missions that are done in the WolfenDOOM style, such as the Astrostein series, in which you board a Nazi-run space station. These usually take advantage of the newer features of the Doom engine rather than sticking to the "square walls" simplicity of Wolfenstein.


go to www.scummvm.org they have a sweet program that was actually used to test Maniac Mansion.

I think you have some of your facts a little mixed up... SCUMM is an acronym for "Script Creation Utility for Maniac Mansion"... it was a game engine that LucasArts created, and used in a number of games (it was upgraded a number of times to provide some of the features you see in Monkey Island and Full Throttle and such). All these games were written with SCUMM providing the basic graphics, sound, and scripting capabilities in the same way that Sierra used their AGI and SCI engines to power games like Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry.

ScummVM is basically an attempt (and a successful one I might add) to recreate the SCUMM engine from the ground up. LucasArts has absolutely nothing to do with it, and certainly didn't use it to test anything. ScummVM provides just about everything that the original game engine provides, and simple reads the data files from the original games in order to recreate them.

The people who work on ScummVM have branched out and managed to run some games that weren't originally based on LucasArts SCUMM engine. These non-SCUMM games include both Simon the Sorceror games, Beneath a Steel Sky, Broken Sword 1 and 2, and Flight of the Amazon Queen. I'm not sure what the story behind Simon the Sorceror is, but the only reason they were able to add the rest of these non-SCUMM games was because the original authors provided them with information on how the games originally worked (like how to read the data files and such).

Also, they definitely don't have any unreleased games. Everything that ScummVM is capable of playing was (at one point) commercially available. The creators of Beneath a Steel Sky and Flight of the Amazon Queen were generous enough to give up the data files from their games as freeware so that we can all download them and enjoy the game without having to hunt down copies of the games that are no longer commercially available.

--Zero

[The Unknown Gamer]

At last someone who enjoys DOS games....

[mizarkgram]

I was wondering how I could do the same thing, as I have a massive collection of hte older PC games that I would like to play... but all this stuff seems a little beyond my capacity (since I am too fricken lazy to actually do all this setup stuff... so Im gonna go set up my old P166 and just use that beasst to play the good ol' games :)