Bringing untested stuff to trade meets

[chadtower]

Okay, I have a question here. I only bring TESTED stuff to trade meets. I go out of my way to make sure that everything I bring has been tested and if I bring anything that doesn't work I tell anyone interested that it failed my tests. I assume that others do the same thing...

However, in the last two meets I've been to, I've had horrible rates of failure with everything I've traded for. I've say I'm at about 20%, IF THAT HIGH, of the stuff I've traded for actually working. I'm beginning to think I shouldn't bother with trade meets.

Now, when someone indicates that something hasn't been tested, I know you're taking a risk and I can accept that without an issue. It's the other stuff I'm talking about where you're given no indication that stuff may not work when you trade for it. I get especially bothered by this because I tend to trade rather generously at meets to be a nice guy.

Am I unreasonable at being annoyed as fuck that nearly everything I traded for at the last meet I attended doesn't work?

[Flack]

People laugh at my rule of thumb, but it's served me well.

"Untested = not working. Guaranteed to work = 50% chance of working."

I have had people lie to me to my face so many times about the working condition of items that I unless I see it working before I take it home, I just figure it's a crap shoot.

I would consider setting up a testing area at your next trade meet. Set an extra television aside with enough adapters to hook just about anything up to it, and a power strip.

[DigitalSpace]

I've never been to a trade meet, but I'd expect the stuff to work too. I'll have to remember Flack's rule of thumb. LOL

[christianscott27]

trading hardware period is a pain in the butt, so is testing it out at the trademeets. some people just dont get the finer points of how to hook up the consoles, or that when you're dealing with 20+ year old hardware you need to be patient and accept risks. you throw in missing cables, dirty systems and crappy joysticks you got yourself one heck of a mess. for the most part i test out my hardware or let a person demo it when possible but that still doesnt keep outta dealing with people who should know better. at the last meet i've got this guy hounding me for a sega CD and 32x i've never tested, i tell him that, i also tell him the systems are flakey designs, missing cables and i promise nothing, he's on his own and if he wants them they are cheap. a big frigging buyer beware, take it or leave it...so now this guy is emailing me several times a day with questions he could easily figure out from a FAQ, like i'm sega tech support from 1996 already!

if you want perfectly working hardware, go with something less than 10 years old, its the nature of electronics.

[chadtower]

That's pretty much what I thought. I guess I need to do things like NOT trade quite so generously. Half the time I know I'm giving away up to twice the value of the item I'm receiving but I figure hey what goes around comes around, right... but I don't think it really does, especially when you end up with a pile of dead carts (yes, even after thorough cleaning) and hardware for your troubles.

[Mayhem]

if you want perfectly working hardware, go with something less than 10 years old, its the nature of electronics.

Unless it's a Playstation :P

I've actually had more hardware fail on me than carts now...

[Kejoriv]

That sucks about people not testing their equipment before brining it to the meets. Or the stuff has been tested doesnt work and they claim its untested.

Ive bought hundreds of carts in the wild and have had 3 or 4 not work (knocks on wood) Of the 40 or 50 systems Iv bought, probably 10 havent worked when brought home.

[christianscott27]

well chad if the hardware you got is totally bad you might try taking it up with the person you traded with, if someone said it works and it didnt you might have a case and i'd imagine they'd be cool about it. with really old stuff though, like colecovisions, INTVs, vic-20s...you could test it out, put it away pull it out and its not working, or may work again after following a FAQ to cleaning...dunno what stuff you have, luckily none of it came from me ;)

dead carts are just odd, what exactly kills a cart anyways, bad solder?

next time around i'll see about making a TV available for testing...i just know where its gonna lead though, "chris do you have this power supply, this TV switch box, this cable this widget..." like the guy a couple meets ago who had me test out his 5200, ok it works what made you think it didnt? i didnt know how to hook it up to my TV @_@

anything for my peeps, anything.

[Ed Oscuro]

I would never trade hardware, ever. People from the forum can say "man, Ed, you spent a lot more money than I did," but I don't ever have problems with stuff not working. I don't want to think how money spent for non-working items would start to add up...

[Sylentwulf]

I don't test anything, but I don't generally bring hardware either. I usually just bring my "new" items and carts. If anyones traded with me and something doesn't work, I would want to know about it.

As for carts alone though - as Christian said, it's pretty hard to kill a cart, I don't test carts I bring, but I would imagine they all work :)

Whats MUCH WORSE is getting home to find empty boxes that you just traded for, but were too drunk to actually LOOK in the box to make sure a game was in it.

[Flack]

About six months ago I bought a laser disc player from a garage sale. I was going to try and talk the lady down from $20 but then she told me they belonged to her son who died in the Gulf War and it's been sitting around ever since and all his stuff was in such good condition. So I bought it (I was just looking for a spare CD player) and the last thing she said was, "I guarantee it works."

It didn't work.

A couple of months later I found a 6 disc Pioneer CD changer at a flea market. I asked the people if it worked and told them the story about the laser disc player. They guaranteed this one worked.

It didn't work.

Since then I've also bought three Dreamcasts (one from a flea market, two from a DP member). Of those, 2 didn't work, although they have different problems and I'm hoping I can combine 2 of the dead ones into 1 working one.

SO, a couple of weeks ago when I went to the flea market and picked up that Sega Genesis 3, the last thing the guy said was, "hey, it's guaranteed to work."

"DON'T SAY THAT," I said! "EVERY TIME someone guarantees something to work to me, it never does!!!"

[omnedon]

Also, unfortunately, not everyone has the same definition of working.

some people - working= it turns on in some sort of fashion

many people - working= it turns on and a pic is on the screen, and can start a game

omnedon - working= it works, every function, every feature, every button, tested with multiple carts, RELIABLY, for more than 5 minutes per, ideally tested with a manufacturers diagnostic cart.

I'm fussy as hell. I always assume a purchase is like the first example, and I'm right 60% of the time. The other 35% is the second example. 5% of the old stuff, bought untested works perfectly. At a garage sale or a flea, the promisis of 'working' are worthless for the most part. It's all bout getting it cheap enough, that it works out OK regardless.

[wberdan]

i rarely test hardware i sell/trade, unless it carries an average value above 40$ +/-.
but- i do always tell anyone if it is untested and i usually try to accommodate them and advise them to test before they buy (if a tv is handy).

when buying obscure hardware, or anything i cant hook up to an ntsc tv- i always assume it wont work.

willie

[chadtower]

I must have better luck at yard sales. I probably bought 15 consoles at flea markets last year and I can't remember getting ANY broken ones. I did get a couple of blinky NES but you have to assume EVERY NES is a blinker when you buy it... That range of hardware spans an odyssey to several Genesis, a pair of dreamcasts, an SNES, and more N64s than I want to admit...

Though I did pick up a turntable that did not work, a cassette deck that did not work, and a VCR that did not work, all with promises that they were working.

[Kid Ice]

I would consider setting up a testing area at your next trade meet. Set an extra television aside with enough adapters to hook just about anything up to it, and a power strip.

This is probably the best practice. However, even testing a machine for five or ten minutes doesn't prove a whole lot. Compare:

A- I trade someone my Gamecube, which I have played almost every day for two years.

B- I trade someone my Odyssey 2, which I haven't played for 6 years except last week when I hooked it up to my TV for four minutes.

Obviously B is much more likely to fail. You're going to find out a lot more in the three hour session you have when you plug it in than I found out in a few minutes of testing.

So I stick to trading with people I know, or well known entities.

[Bratwurst]

dead carts are just odd, what exactly kills a cart anyways, bad solder?

I've come across a few dead carts and even had luck bringing them back to life. What I've found is either:

Static or electrical surge shorted out the mask roms or other electrical component (This isn't often, cartridges are tough! Not alot of fine, delicate parts, usually.)

Traces on the circuitboard or solder points cracked or broken. Extreme heat / cold can warp the PCBs sometimes and stress the physical connections.

[Flack]

This is probably the best practice. However, even testing a machine for five or ten minutes doesn't prove a whole lot.

It'll prove that the item worked when the deal was made. If it fails tomorrow, hey, sorry. No one expects a waranty with 20+ year old hardware. But what they do expect is for the item to at least turn on.

[ClubNinja]

I would consider setting up a testing area at your next trade meet.

While this may be a little obnoxious for consoles, it's absurdly easy for games - Christian's got just about everything hooked up and ready to go. I'm sure that testing out some questionable games has never been and won't be a problem.


if you want perfectly working hardware, go with something less than 10 years old, its the nature of electronics.

I don't agree here. If you want a working 2600, then you should be able to get a working 2600. Saying that someone should stick with a system less than 10 years old just alienates like 80% of our guests.


if the hardware you got is totally bad you might try taking it up with the person you traded with

Now we're talking. Chad, you know I have a contact list for everyone who attends our meets. Why not contact me about putting you in touch with whoever passed you the raw goods? While I totally empathize with your situation and honestly want to help you out, I feel like this kind of thing only makes us all look bad over something that I can surely say has never been an issue before.

Also, I have a related side story to this. I know that one of your duds for the weekend was a busted Channel F console. I saw that thing and can say that I wouldn't have taken it. While the gentleman who had it is a reliable guy (I've dealt with him before and even got a working console from him at the same meet), the Chan F unit itself was coated in grime and missing buttons. The only reason I can imagine you would've picked it up in that shape is if he cut you a stellar deal - in which case, I'd almost always assmue the thing has problems. But here's the twist. You may or may not have noticed that Joe was sporting a minty Channel F at the meet that got no attention. The thing is spotless, in one piece, and works like a charm. When he saw you carrying the dud Channel F, he quietly asked me why you showed no interest in his but picked up that one instead. I don't know if you never saw the thing or if you did but he wanted too much for it or what, but other options were there for you.

I'm sure that this is true for all groups like ours, but I am certain that no one in NECG wants to screw anybody out of anything. If you feel like you were treated unfairly on some hardware, I can put you in touch with the appropriate person(s) to discuss it with. With cartridges, I pretty much take my chances. Dud carts are pretty uncommon overall, but when they turn up, they turn up. I've had games that wouldn't work at all for me, but would run fine in a friend's console. Anyway, get in touch with me about who you really lost out with, and hopefully they'll take care of you. Our goal is fun, not screwing others, and I'd imagine that the folks involved would share this goal.

[christianscott27]

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:22 am Post subject:

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Quote:
I would consider setting up a testing area at your next trade meet.


While this may be a little obnoxious for consoles, it's absurdly easy for games - Christian's got just about everything hooked up and ready to go. I'm sure that testing out some questionable games has never been and won't be a problem.




mmm...no thanks, i gotta disagree here. my console collection is like playing a pipe organ, theres 20 or so systems and a lot of button pushing to do, its not that simple to use. i'm pretty picky about my hardware and i'm not up for everybody shoving riverbottom carts into them. besides that we do have gaming tournaments going on and i cant see everybody pausing for a cart check. what i will do is bring my test set up from the cellar, which consists of a commie monitor, a VCR, powerstrip and a handful of hook-ups, then if people wish they can check consoles there and where possible check carts.

i'm not trying to "alienate" any guests i'm just pointing out the nature of old hardware, when you're dealing with 20 year old stuff its not always a sure bet to run like a champ. i think most people who've dealt with these systems know what i'm talking about, they do flake out.

i do agree that we dont want anyone to get burned, and i really dont think anyone attending is looking to burn anyone. if theres a situation then by all means email the person and see what can be done. i just dont want to see these issues becoming a headache in what is otherwise a fun, friendly event.

[Sylentwulf]

I'd have to agree with christian on this one, I wouldn't let anyone test misc. carts on my good systems either :) Now, as he said, if he brings a monitor and power strip up, someone could bring a test unit themselves. Say if they're looking for NES games and worried about them working, they can bring their own NES to test games out on.

Also, the test monitor and power strip setup WOULD help to test out any hardware people want to try.

[klimatron8]

I'm gonna take the opposite view here. I believe we ought to appoint a commissioner to preside over each and every deal. Said commissioner would then conduct a rigid 5 point visual inspection of each proposed trade item detailing: Wear&Tear, Level of cleanliness, Sticker damage, Contact Mintyness Rating (1-10), and Overall appearance. A letter grade would then be assigned to each item with only like-graded items being swappable. Now we would move on to the Testing stage or "Phase-Two". Here each and every item (of those that received passing grades on the visual inspection) would be rigorously tested for a period of no less than 10 minutes and no longer than 1 hour. Key notes here are playability, pliability, and durability. Next each item is given a second letter grade denoting phase two results. Now both grades are averaged producing the final overall letter grade for each item. Finally, the commissioner stamps each passing item with the official "NECG Seal of Approval". At this point all parties are roused from a deep sleep and trading of like graded (overall) items can commence...right after each party signs an affadifit stating confidentiality on all proceedings herein and a waiver stating that neither person will sue at a later date.
With the next meet starting in June, I believe it should all be over by Labor Day. Clearly I have way too much time on my hands today. :)

[chadtower]

Now we're talking. Chad, you know I have a contact list for everyone who attends our meets. Why not contact me about putting you in touch with whoever passed you the raw goods? While I totally empathize with your situation and honestly want to help you out, I feel like this kind of thing only makes us all look bad over something that I can surely say has never been an issue before


Clubninja, I didn't want to make this an NECG issue at all. That's why I specifically did NOT mention NECG in my original post and still didn't until it became pretty much a thread specific to us. This really has nothing to do with our group and everything to do with my figuring out where my expectations of trade meets should lie. I just always assumed that people wouldn't bring stuff they hadn't tested/fixed since I wouldn't do it. I was probably wrong and that's my issue, not an issue with meet etiquette.

As for the Channel F I got, that guy told me he hadn't tested it when we made the trade. I was disappointed but not with the trader since I had been warned. As for Joe's Channel F, I inquired of several people who owned that one and no one could tell me. I stood by it and waited for the owner to come back to it for maybe 15 minutes and no one appeared. I did have interest but it was just one of those cases of not being able to find the owner. He was probably off taking his tournament turns or something.

Either way, I'm not trying to indict the members of our group or really anyone at all. I'm just trying to find out if my expectations have been realistic and the general consensus is that I should assume a far higher rate of failure than I have been. I can do that. Of course, that means I'm not going to pay nearly as high a price for items as I have paid at the last two meets when I was assuming things were all tested and working unless otherwise stated. A large part of the issue for me was that I've been practically giving things away at times based on that assumption.

Don't worry about me on this one. I've chalked it up to learning the ropes of trade meets. I have no doubt that I have yet to trade with a person that intentionally gave me nonworking stuff.

[ClubNinja]

@ Chad - Understood. Thank you for clearing that up completely. Still, if there are ever any concerns about goofed trade items, don't hesitate to contact me. I'm sure they would be easily straightened out.