Where were you guys?

[Buyatari]

Activision Super Nintendo Prototype
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2059866044
Ended: Oct-10-02 11:51:35 PDT
notes: SOLD $96.99 unreleased SGT. SAUNDER'S COMBAT

I can't believe I missed this one.

I can't believe WE ALL missed this one.

Adam

[Tempest]

I saw it. I just didn't care...

Tempest

[CPUWIZ]

Fake ! That's why.

[portnoyd]

I had it bookmarked, and completely forgot. Glad I did if it's fake :D

dave

[rbudrick]

Hi there,

I'd like to hear your opinion as to why it's fake..nothing really jumped out at me :-)

Thanks!
-Rob

[nesman85]

i didn't miss it. check out the second highest bidder. it doesn't look fake to me. i wasn't too interested in it because it looks like the word japanese is on the label, and i doubt its complete. i wish i would have bid higher though :?

[CPUWIZ]

Hi there,

I'd like to hear your opinion as to why it's fake..nothing really jumped out at me :-)

Thanks!
-Rob

A fellow programmer that worked at Activision during the SNES era told me that they never put their boards into cases so this looks fishy to me.

[nesman85]

does anybody have any snes activision protos witha label like that?

[NESu]

Cpuwitz

First person information is always better and I think the friend you heard from is accurate a source as any but

A programmer's time is the most valuable of anyone's in a company and in this case with this cart (definately a review cart for someon in house at the stage it is) somewhere along the assembly line, someone who's time is less valuable than a programmers may have been the person to put the proto together, on the way for it to make its way to a higher-up in the company who could see the progression.

Activision is at least a fortune 100 company with ceo's. Activision makes and sells many different titles. A programmer working there now or then would have to work on different projects simultaniously, its called multi tasking, something part of all corporate atmospheres and what they exist for.

Summarily a programmer in charge of whatever could not be responsible (or burdened with) for watching over the whereabouts of a proto at all times, they wouldn't have time to deliver it to someone to look at who decides then what. There would be other people whose job it was to spice up the way it looks to impress the upper management. So I think your friend may have been right on in that programmers didn't do that sort of thing in their job at activision during those days which doens't discount but that there were others in charge of delivery. Basically put there were many people who were handling the proto not just the programmer in charge, afterall he has to put it down sometime :)

[nesman85]

i think the proto is real, especially because the label looks like one that could only be taken from the company.

[NESu]

It was just a thought, not like one person could oversee all the aspects and ongoings where they work making games. Thanks for the information CPUWIZ and I agree with matt.

I think a good example of that actaully being the case, but more like the exception to the rule is with NES Virgin back where if one programmer is fired then only one person was left in charge of making the entire GAME! I have to say that even though NES virgin back then had a great peak that they sank because of poor, poor management. This however is not the case on this one. Other companies actually have good management over the titles they're making.

[CPUWIZ]

Cpuwitz

First person information is always better and I think the friend you heard from is accurate a source as any but

A programmer's time is the most valuable of anyone's in a company and in this case with this cart (definately a review cart for someon in house at the stage it is) somewhere along the assembly line, someone who's time is less valuable than a programmers may have been the person to put the proto together, on the way for it to make its way to a higher-up in the company who could see the progression.

Activision is at least a fortune 100 company with ceo's. Activision makes and sells many different titles. A programmer working there now or then would have to work on different projects simultaniously, its called multi tasking, something part of all corporate atmospheres and what they exist for.

Summarily a programmer in charge of whatever could not be responsible (or burdened with) for watching over the whereabouts of a proto at all times, they wouldn't have time to deliver it to someone to look at who decides then what. There would be other people whose job it was to spice up the way it looks to impress the upper management. So I think your friend may have been right on in that programmers didn't do that sort of thing in their job at activision during those days which doens't discount but that there were others in charge of delivery. Basically put there were many people who were handling the proto not just the programmer in charge, afterall he has to put it down sometime :)

Oh dear :roll: , first of all I am a programmer and I have written 2 SNES games (amongst many others for other platforms) and second, for your fortune 100 quote, they just closed another development office in the L.A. area. They are getting smaller and smaller.

And for your information, if you ever come accross a SNES proto for GUTS or Rocko's Modern Life, the chances that MY fingerprints are on that board are about 90% (5% of the missing 10% is that they got wiped off somehow).

You believe whatever you like, I have probably made more prototypes than you will ever see in your entire life and none of them ever ended up in a case !

My comment was just my $0.02 as to why I didn't put a bid in.

[CPUWIZ]

i think the proto is real, especially because the label looks like one that could only be taken from the company.

Or printed on a color laser printer ... :)

[NESu]

I have probably made more prototypes than you will ever see in your entire life and none of them ever ended up in a case !

Correct me if I am wrong but for a time there were snes and nes games in developement at the same time in the early nineties and as far as I know a lot of NES activision protos have labels "WOW" so if activision made protos with NES labels geez that would make just no sense if they had no labels on snes protos inside of cases, umm no wait that isn't right is it. You don't sound so sure, ..."probably?" AND! ..."there are" enough of the prototypes out here that have viable origins that "did" end up in cartridge case format that "were not made by you". No need to get combative sir experienced programmer. Educated programmers who come here and collectors who are also of a schooled archetype that happen to be in different businesses have a long history of cooperation and working together here. And just for the record, all the prototypes I have found in the field have came in cases, just not the ebay purchases I've made or like this one in the subject matter. Maybe you are just too used to seeing protos on ebay without cases. I have an empty proto board that came from ebay and with no case, but also it has no game on it either. You would most likely come up with a way to say it is fake right, well if you proved that however then I would have to say since it has no case then all protos without cases are fake. Makes sense, what.. NO? well fine then but that is about how valid your points are in hindsight right? ..thought so. Relax, calm down, whatever its just recreation anyway :)


Oh Dear! first of all I am a programmer and I have written 2 SNES games :roll:

Glad you told me that. AND! Not an un-accomplishable feat. I was just speaking similarly about Greg Tavares, whom I was speaking graciously of in this thread already. He was one of the remaining programmers for Virgin's NES game making campaign and was responsible for writing M.C. Kids after his partner was dismissed for not having gotten any work done on the game because the partner was writing the tools and none of the game yet. Later Mr. Tavares solely wrote the unreleased Robocop Vs. Terminator. So! ..don't come off like I don't give props to programmers, take them seriously, or whatever your point is. And please (don’t forget because you might) remind me of the contrasts between writing NES game SNES game code, however I do think it is great enough of an analogy and it puts you in the position of next-gen programmer for the point I am making. Never mind don’t tell the contrast and comparison it would go over my head completely anyway. Lol!


for your fortune 100 quote, they just closed another development office in the L.A. area.

That is precisely why I said fortune 100.. AND NOT! fortune 500 :) And come on, thats my exact wish to be able to bring it up now. Now I have given you examples of 1. adressing a point of yours in long though out detail, and 2. addressing your points in a shorter easier to assimilate way.

[NESu]

Or printed on a color laser printer ...

No, its a perfect viable proto. Also, this deserves another look, the way you brought it up in response to my post. What was with the condescending "first of all" part, what was it proving exactly ? That is like rushing up to someone, and yelling in their face while spraying saliva and stamping your foot while saying your "first of all" comment before you proceed to tell me how it is, waving your fist and jumping up and down,(enough yet) "No" ok, while doing back flips, (there)
Oh Dear! first of all I am a programmer and I have written 2 SNES games.

How come when I said first person information is better as the main idea of my post, your response to my whole post was in the first part of your post with, "oh dear, I have written 2 games"? This sounds like you are telling me off and that this is first hand data of the proto from the company I was speaking of: Activision. Do you have the first hand information for the proto in this topic? (yes or -->no)

Let's assume you were addressing at least one of the things in my post since you quoted the whole thing, so I take it you were responding to the main idea that first hand info is the only thing that proves you. You don't have first hand knowledge so I hope you know by addressing my post like that it makes it look like you agree with me. That is because without knowing first hand by being general manager or being the one in charge of deciding which games are up for consideration for the roster then at that time in the company, then you are wrong sir and it is too late now.

as well as this (nothing wrong here but it works well enough for the point I'm making) this quote from you is before I wrote to the thread..

A fellow programmer that worked at Activision during the SNES era told me that they never put their boards into cases so this looks fishy to me.

And "a fellow programmer" must be a Euphemism for yourself since I am supposed to some how know that you wrote two games after you only mentioned that you had a friend who worked in the industry. Honestly reread what you wrote addressing me in that manner, that is what it is. Basically you are talking about the two and drawing points from this like you were the one who worked on this proto while working at Activision, like your fellow programmer and yourself are one in the same, or that you did or didn't at some point work at Activision also. (and drop the "oh, I'm sorry little school girl" attitude now.)

Give everyone, including me, credit here.. do you just want to divide us into a class of smarter people who can read between the lines or are you trying to confuse people. You are talking and trying to prove points on this proto and by the way your saying things, apparently, you don’t expect me or anyone else to be able to discern a difference between you programming some games and, you knowing someone who worked in the SNES era by the way you throw around facts? It sounds this way (although at first I can be quoted as saying your friend sounds as accurate a source as any) but now it seems like he could be conveniently imaginary, just my opinion, the reason I posted ;)

Also why would some one you knew of ten years ago just happen to say back then that "they never put their boards into cases" I mean what, did he slip it to you on an index card, leave it on your answering machine, leave it in a secret code for you to decode? I find it hard to just picture someone walking by or whatever and muttering that that they never put their boards into cases and keep on going by. The only thing I can think of is that you called someone up after you saw the link and briefly brought it up for only a moment and then changed the subject but I am not buying it at all now, OR! is "a fellow programmer" really just you, because you want to keep a somewhat low profile.

I am having difficulty understanding you clearly at all on this topic.
We can change the tone of the subject and you could tell more of what all was said during your talks with the guy from the company. I have no reason to disbelieve someone who is anonymous other that what I have pointed out so far but what else did this person say. I'd like to know what year you discussed this because I was wondering if this was a recent conversation in light of this proto or one from the SNES days because you never said if it was now or then that you heard that they never put their boards into cases. I find it hard for you, in a time sometime ago, in that era to have heard this from someone unless you too worked for the company Activision, because you basically would have to be asking someone if they put their protos pcbs in cases in order to get a straight out answer like this: "They never put pcbs in cases here." (Sirens are going off right now.) NO WAY would someone just casually drop a line like that unless you asked them the question straight out. And the only way you could possibly need an answer straight out like that is if you needed to know. But would you need to know that back then, not really.

[Tempest]

Fight! Fight! :lol:

Seriously guys, I think you're all taking this too seriously. You know you could both be right. The prototype may not have originally been in a case, but the person who took it from the lab may have stuck it in one to protect it. Lord knows I've seen many 5200 protos like that. I'm not pretending I know anything about SNES protos, but could that be a possibility?

Tempest

[NESu]

Thank you man, I am a Tempestuous mind my self :mad:
No big thing, though I am rarely ever a hot-head. :lol:

CP is probably is busy with making good bussiness in the game industry and would probably appreciate to just answer a few questions rather than address a whole lot of points but that is great. If he could just delve into a few things :)

:?: what year was it, around when he heard the activision programmer say he never put protos he worked on in cases?

:?: You are of great stature among game designers. Have you yourself ever in the past during your career worked for or with activision production.

Thank you for your consideration in aswering these few things.


And this is somewhat disagreeable for my palette (But I would never say something like that, I’m just going to join in with the nonsense signals joe)


Oh dear

I didn't like being addressing when bringing up a post of mine with that, like I should not be arguing or something and that everything is a statement of fact. I only didn't appreciate it in an effortless sort of way and that was why I had so much subject matter to move with. It was mentioned it was "just your opinion" though I felt I should not needed to have been reminded. I could be friendlier if the obstructiveness of views was not so much. thank you anyway I appreciated our back and forth to a point so far. :)

[CPUWIZ]

what year was it, around when he heard the activision programmer say he never put protos he worked on in cases?

You are of great stature among game designers. Have you yourself ever in the past during your career worked for or with activision production.



1. ~ 1993

2. No, I was simply stating that NONE of the proto's produced in the company I worked for ended up in cases, even VP's or marketing clowns knew how to insert a bare PCB into a SNES.

It's all good, I wasn't attacking anyone, simply stating that I firmly believe that the proto in that picture is likely a fake. I also didn't mention anything about NES whatsoever.

I bet one day I will see one of my protos on eBay in a case and it's guaranteed to be a fake.

Oh, and sorry but I don't have the time to read everything you typed. :D

[CPUWIZ]

Fight! Fight! :lol:

Tempest

Hehe, you'd like that wouldn't you. :lol:

It might be possible that this is some sort of magazine review copy, however, when we sent off such copies they were soldered into the board and didn't have case modifications done to them. So I still think this is not the real deal.

As Dennis Miller would say: "This is just my opinion, I could be wrong !" :D

[DreamTR]

I have around 150 SNES betas, and that is as real as real can get, there should not be a question about that game at all.

[DreamTR]

Sgt Saunder's Combat was released in Japan for the Super Famicom by ASCII in 1995 based on the 1960s TV Show "Combat"

[rbudrick]

Ahem ;-)

Anyone bother to ask the seller if he put it in a case? heh heh

-Rob

[Buyatari]

Rob-

The case has stickers on it with Activision company markers.
So if he made the case then yeah its a fake.

I just wish those of you who saw this item would have said something. Then it would sit in my collection while we debate this. :)
Come on, if you see a prototype and you don't want it there is no reason not to share it with us. Thats the whole purpose of the thead at the top of this page.

I think its real. It has official Activision labels and I have seen others like it.

Adam

[CPUWIZ]

I just wish those of you who saw this item would have said something. Then it would sit in my collection while we debate this. :)
Come on, if you see a prototype and you don't want it there is no reason not to share it with us. Thats the whole purpose of the thead at the top of this page.
Adam

Good point, I should have posted it. :(

[Bojay1997]

I don't think this is actually a proto. It looks like what we used to call a "consideration" copy. In the late SNES days, a number of Japanese companies not closely affiliated with the big US software houses tried to get their games distributed over here by sending sample copies in the original Japanese form to big publishers like Activision and EA in the hopes that they would consider making minor tweaks (mostly just removing any stuff that was too culturally or language specific) and releasing them in exchange for a lucrative licensing deal. I've never actually seen one in a case like that, but I suppose someone at Activision may have been concerned about the board getting damaged and therefore stuck it in a spare SNES cart case. Kinda interesting I guess, but the identical game can be purchased in Super Famicom format for next to nothing.

[nesman85]

i would've pointed it out, but i wanted it. i didn't think anybody else saw it and when i placed my bid the price was way lower, i should have bid higher, but i wasn't home when the auction ended though so i would probably have been outbid anyway. the guy who won it has been winning some other protos too lately, who is that?

[MightyMagnor]

I had the chance to meet up with this bidder first hand.
He goes by the name LUCKYDOG!

Were I not off saving the innocent this item would sit on the shelf next to my gold NWC cart.

Nothing but the best will do for
--THE MIGHTY MAGNOR