Will the History of the Sega Saturn be preserved?

[Anthony1]

It has to be assumed that the physical life of our consoles is finite. In other words, there will be a day when our old consoles no longer play. Although the History of Video Games is relatively short, at some point in the future, there will be a time when there aren't any working Atari 2600's or Intellivisions or whatever.

Of course that is still a long time away, and maybe it doesn't happen in our lifetimes, but eventually it will happen. Will our Grandchildren's children be able to find a working Atari 2600?

But that really isn't that big of a concern because of emulation. With emulation we know that the history of games will always be preserved. Future computers will be able to run emulators of just about every system imaginable.

Storage capacities will just get larger and larger, to the point where somebody could have the first 30 years of the Histroy of Video Games on their super duper hard drives of the future.

But the question does arise about what will happen to the History of the Video Game systems that don't have a stable, quality emulator available.

The Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar and 3DO all don't have quality, stable, working emulators available. Yes I'm aware that there are emulators for all 3 systems, but none of them are even close to being rock solid. And with the Saturn there isn't any emulators out there that play a large number of different Saturn games.

It figures, because the Saturn wasn't the most popular system in the world, and with it's very strange achitecture, it's very difficult to make a stable emulator for it that works for more than a few games.

But if emulators are the long term solution to preserving the History of gaming, then what will happen to the Sega Saturn and other systems like it that don't have any stable, solid, working emulators available?

Normally, you would think that it's just a matter of time before you have a rock solid emulator for the Saturn that works like a champ. But I'm not so sure. It's such a difficult programming feat to create an emulator, and because of the Saturns lack of mainstream popularity, I'm just not sure that it's ever going to happen.

What do you think about this?

Am I just a stupid retard to be thinking of such things, or will the Saturn be an endangered species at some point in time? Actually if you think about it, cartridge systems with their lack of moving parts could last a very, very, very long time. But optical disc based systems like the Turbografx CD, and the TurboDuo and the Sega CD, and the Neo Geo CD, and the 3DO and the Saturn and the PSX, etc, etc, they are all eventually going to wear out and die.

But if there is a rock solid working emulator for these systems then it really isn't a big issue. But if there isn't........

[Gunstarhero]

You are right to worry about Saturns not working in the future, because that machine is one of the most shoddily constructed pieces of crap to ever grace video gaming. That is nothing new either, the problem with the cheap construction of the Saturn console itself has been well documented and was a HUGE complaint within the gaming community and all the gaming magazines throughout it's lifespan. The only way to keep a Saturn working is to not ever play it, which suits me just fine as mine sits safe and sound in its box.

I don't think you should worry about systems like the 2600, NES, or other cart systems not functioning in the future, as those are all Solid State constructed...they should last forever granted you keep them clean and keep the dust off the internal components.

[Graham Mitchell]

I think this issue depends more on the system's manufacturer than anything else. With 3DO and TurboCD you're screwed. Nobody supports those anymore. Nintendo, on the other hand, will put a battery back in your Gameboy Golf cartridge if it dies. They're really good about supporting old stuff even if they don't sell it anymore (they just sent me a ton of technical manuals for a VS system, for example). With Sega, I don't know if they support hardware anymore. I would assume most of their manufacturing plants are closed down since Nintendo and Sony all insist on manufacturing their own discs for their own machines, but you should contact Sega and see if they still have the means to service machines like the Saturn.

[Garry Silljo]

I keep hearing all this crap about how shoddy the Saturn is built and how it was made in such a poor fashion. The truth is I have NEVER encountered a Saturn that didn't perform exactly as it was supposed to. While everyone else was flipping their playstations upside down to avoid over heating and taking back their Ps2's and xboxs because of errors with the drives, Saturns just kept on trucking. Maybe from a developers stand point it wasnt the best system, but I'll be damned if the design had any negative effect on the performance.

[Gunstarhero]

Yeah ,and you'll keep hearing it from me. The Saturn is a piece of shit compared to most consoles. It's hollow shell construction leaves it particularly vulnerable to being damaged in accidents, such as if it falls off your table or if you kick it on accident while walking by it. It's ugly as hell too, it looks like a washing machine.

And the Saturn control pad is the worst evolution of an already bad design I've ever seen. The genesis pad is nothing to brag about, and the Saturn pad was particularly horrible with its design of the shoulder buttons, where you don't really know if you are pushing the buttons or not.

[esquire]

Yeah ,and you'll keep hearing it from me. The Saturn is a piece of shit compared to most consoles. It's hollow shell construction leaves it particularly vulnerable to being damaged in accidents, such as if it falls off your table or if you kick it on accident while walking by it. It's ugly as hell too, it looks like a washing machine.

And the Saturn control pad is the worst evolution of an already bad design I've ever seen. The genesis pad is nothing to brag about, and the Saturn pad was particularly horrible with its design of the shoulder buttons, where you don't really know if you are pushing the buttons or not.

I think its safe to say that if you drop any cd/dvd console system off your table you are going to have problems. Personally, I don't leave any of my systems either laying on a table with the cords exposed where they might get pulled, or on the floor where it could be kicked. Remeber, the Saturn is not a football. You should not kick it. LOL

Obviously you have a bias against the Saturn. Software issues aside, I think it is a very sturdy piece of hardware. I would bet that there are more broken Playstations out there per 100 sold than there are Saturns. As for the controllers, I am not sure which one you are talking about. Sega put out at least 3 variations, including the one included with Nights, the predecessor of the Dreamcast Controller, which is one of my favorite controllers of all time.

[Arqueologia_Digital]

Saturn is one of the most beatiful and great systems of all time in my opinion and the legacy must be preserved. I agree with the Joysticks, i think everyone are nice and better than the PS/PS2...

Matías

[Milk]

Personally, I prefer the Sega 6 button style of controllers, but whatever. How could you not tell if you're not pressing the shoulder buttons when they had an audible click?

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmpf.

I think that there will be a time (sooner than you think) when it'll be possible to get access to fault checking tools at the consumer level, and coupled with nanotechnology there's no reason you couldn't send a swarm of 'em after a broken console to see what's gone bad and fix it.

Sounds a bit out there, but I see bits of such a strategy being used today.

[omnedon]

Although the History of Video Games is relatively short, at some point in the future, there will be a time when there aren't any working Atari 2600's or Intellivisions or whatever.

Not if I, and others like jonjandran, FABombjoy, D-Lite and others have any say in the matter.

:D

[AB Positive]

Yeah ,and you'll keep hearing it from me. The Saturn is a piece of shit compared to most consoles. It's hollow shell construction leaves it particularly vulnerable to being damaged in accidents, such as if it falls off your table or if you kick it on accident while walking by it. It's ugly as hell too, it looks like a washing machine.

And the Saturn control pad is the worst evolution of an already bad design I've ever seen. The genesis pad is nothing to brag about, and the Saturn pad was particularly horrible with its design of the shoulder buttons, where you don't really know if you are pushing the buttons or not.

Dude... I can understand hating the software, but the Saturn pad has THE BEST d-pad for fighting games I've ever used. Period.


Period.


-AG

[Graham Mitchell]

I worked at Babbage's during the days of Saturn Vs. Playstation, and we had hundreds of returns on both Saturns AND first-run (Ridge-Racer-bundled) Playstations. The reasons for returns of both machines were very similar--disc drive burnouts were a minor problem. The real issues were that these machines probably could have used a fan on their microprocessors (especially the Saturn since it had two of them!)

People would set these things up on carpet and kaplooey! They'd overheat and that's the end of our program. :angry:

More aware gamers will notice that both Saturn and Playstation underwent major facelifts in the first year of their release. For Saturn, some claim it was because the controllers were crap, which was part of it, but it was mostly to fix overheating problems. The Second-Generation PS1's changed in a few ways: One was the venting system, like in the Saturn, but also to fix a lock-out bypass that savvy gamers had found to allow them to play burned and foreign discs on a US Playstation. Sony also implemented a proprietary RCA cable instead of the standard stereo cable the first generation utilized.

Moral: Look at your Saturns and PS's--if you've got a first run of either of these, don't set them up on carpet. They might overheat.

[kainemaxwell]

Slightly off-topic but what was wrong with the Saturn's architechture compared to other systems of its time?

[Anthony1]

Nobody has really commented on whether or not they expect there to be a fully function rock solid emulator for the Sega Saturn in the future.

That was the main jist of my point.

We can argue all day long about the build quality of this and that, but all these optical based systems can start counting their remaining days left alive. It's simply a matter of time.

Although I do feel that there will be some technical nuts out there that will actually make a nice living out of fixing circa 1990 cd based game systems in the year 2040. Of course they will charge a freaking fortune. It will cost like 10 grand to have a working Saturn in 2050.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nobody has really commented on whether or not they expect there to be a fully function rock solid emulator for the Sega Saturn in the future.
Oh, I see. There's a couple good Sat emus out there, they're just darn slow. Well, okay, maybe there's just one good Saturn emu out there. I dunno. Folks are emulating everything these days. Maybe someday that Pokemon Pokedex will get emulated as well. o_O


It will cost like 10 grand to have a working Saturn in 2050.
...in 1970 dollars LOL

[Arqueologia_Digital]

It will cost like 10 grand to have a working Saturn in 2050.
Or you could stole it from the DP museum...

[GaijinPunch]

I'm late jumping in. Anyone that says the Saturn is shoddy has been sold a load of bullshit. Saturns are rock solid in terms of not breaking (it was it's evil stepbrother the Playstation that had overheating problems when relased).

Is it a bitchy matchine when you try to
-hack it
-mod it
-emulate it
-program for it?

Yes, but that's not a sign of poor craftsmanship.

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, people who put their disc based consoles on a carpet are rather asking for a ton of trouble.

[SoulBlazer]

You're not susposed to put disc based systems on carpets? :eek 2:

(Looks over at his gameCube and PS2 sitting on the carpet next to the entertainment center)

Uh oh......

[Atari7800]

You are right to worry about Saturns not working in the future, because that machine is one of the most shoddily constructed pieces of crap to ever grace video gaming. That is nothing new either, the problem with the cheap construction of the Saturn console itself has been well documented and was a HUGE complaint within the gaming community and all the gaming magazines throughout it's lifespan. The only way to keep a Saturn working is to not ever play it, which suits me just fine as mine sits safe and sound in its box.

I don't think you should worry about systems like the 2600, NES, or other cart systems not functioning in the future, as those are all Solid State constructed...they should last forever granted you keep them clean and keep the dust off the internal components.

Silly man. I'm still using mt FIRST generation Saturn... it has been moved to four different apartments in three years, it has fallen off a (short) coffee table, it has been kicked, shoved, and otherwise abused... it sometimes sits in a drawer under the TV. Works great. As far as gaming magazines documenting the Saturn's so-called shoddy construction... which magazines are you talking about? I've gotten ALL the major game magazines since the early 90's, and I can't remember one article or comment about the saturn being constructed poorly. The PSX... now I remember LOTS of stuff on the first models.

The first Saturn control pads were pretty crappy in my opinion, but the analog Nights pad is my favorite pad. Ever.

As far as preserving old consoles... I think we will see solid, stable emulators for all the systems you mentioned, especially the Saturn. The Saturn was very sucessful in Japan, and there are numerous games that simply didn't appear on any other console other than the Saturn. It will take a while since the Saturn has such a complicated and convoluted architecture, but it will happen. Eventually. :D

[Arcade Antics]

Nobody has really commented on whether or not they expect there to be a fully function rock solid emulator for the Sega Saturn in the future.

That was the main jist of my point.

Yes. You can expect a fully functioning, rock solid, 100% accurate Saturn emulator at some point in the future. It is inevitable.


The only way to keep a Saturn working is to not ever play it, which suits me just fine as mine sits safe and sound in its box.

What's the point of having one then? Isn't it easier to just grab a rock from a nearby pond to use as a paperweight? ;)

And if you're not going to play it anyway, why not just box up a broken one to put in the bottom of your closet?

[YoshiM]

You're not susposed to put disc based systems on carpets? :eek 2:

(Looks over at his gameCube and PS2 sitting on the carpet next to the entertainment center)

Uh oh......

I wouldn't worry about it. The Cube and PS2 have side and back venting respectively so that circa 70's brown shag carpeting isn't going to overheat your systems. Now if they were wedged into a tight space with hardly any room around them for air flow, that's another matter. I've seen an Xbox and a Cube overheat because the owner had them too close to the side of the cubbies they were in.

If I'm not mistaken the original PSX, Saturn and for sure the Sega CDX all had bottom venting. When you put them on a table or shelf, the miniscule space between the console and the surface was usually enough to allow heat to disperse. Put them on carpeting and now that dispersion is interfered with. I never had an original PSX and my Saturn never was on the carpet but my CDX would overheat and hang every time when I originally had it on the floor. Put it on the coffee table and the problem would never occur again, but then the stretched cords would trip anyone who walked by.

[llabnip]

I can understand hating the software, but the Saturn pad has THE BEST d-pad for fighting games I've ever used. Period.

IMO, the US Model 2 Saturn pad (roughly equivilent to the Japanese Sega Saturn pad) is the best digital pad known to mankind. Best for fighters. Best for shmups. Best period. There is no contest. Nothing else even comes close in terms of digital-only pads. They are virtually indestructible, utterly comfortable and amazingly precise.

[Parodius]

The Saturn has one of the best libraries of top-notch titles of any machine ever. It also has some of the most refined 2D titles of any system out there.

Sadly most of them never made it to the US.



As Edge said about the Saturn six years ago:

"The Saturn, casualty of the second-generation 32-bit console war, is neither 3DO or Jaguar. It boasts arcade conversions that Namco rivals but rarely beats, classy RPGs and support from offbeat developers such as Treasure. It is in short, the hardcore gamer's machine of the '90s. In this sense, Sega's failure is also its greatest triumph."


It outsold the Nintendo 64 in Japan and attained a very respectable second place over there.

The list of incredible 2D titles(especially shooters) is endless:

Radiant Silvergun
Metal Slug
Battle Garegga
Kingdom Grandprix
Guardian Heroes
Jikkyu Parodius
Sexy Parodius
Parodius Deluxe Pack
Salamander Deluxe Pack
Elevator Action Returns
Darius Gaiden
Gradius Deluxe Pack
Gunbird
Sengoku Blade
Thunder Force V
Strikers 1945 1 & 2
Soukyugurentai
Donpachi
Dodonpachi
Guardian Heroes
Samurai Shodown 4
Waku Waku 7
Saturn Bomberman (10-player Bomberman)
Silhouette Mirage
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Darius Gaiden
Choaniki Kyukyoku Otokonogyakushu (Super Big Brother)
Cotton 2
X-Men vs. Street Fighter
Darius 2
Twin Bee

and many many more.



Whoever said the Saturn was of shoddy construction is smoking something.

I have a US ex-rental system that I have used since 1999 and it still ticks along.

Before that I had a Japanese import system that I used from 1995-1999. I still have it and it works, though I don't use it any more.

[Ed Oscuro]

What's the point of having one then? Isn't it easier to just grab a rock from a nearby pond to use as a paperweight? ;)

And if you're not going to play it anyway, why not just box up a broken one to put in the bottom of your closet?
I see your ;) ...but still, I would be able to live the rest of my life quite happily if I never saw another "why do you do X with your collection, why do you buy unopened systems and never use them, why why why?"

Just leave that topic alone, please...

[ManekiNeko]

Yeah ,and you'll keep hearing it from me. The Saturn is a piece of shit compared to most consoles.

Compared to what? The Playstation?


It's hollow shell construction leaves it particularly vulnerable to being damaged in accidents, such as if it falls off your table or if you kick it on accident while walking by it. It's ugly as hell too, it looks like a washing machine.

Hey, it's the best washing machine I've ever played!
Also, if you want to make sure your game systems work properly, you may want to avoid kicking and dropping them. Personally speaking, I've put my Saturn through much more abuse than it should be capable of taking and it's still working fine for me.


And the Saturn control pad is the worst evolution of an already bad design I've ever seen. The genesis pad is nothing to brag about, and the Saturn pad was particularly horrible with its design of the shoulder buttons, where you don't really know if you are pushing the buttons or not.

Actually, I've found the Saturn pad to be PERFECT for its many arcade-quality fighting games. The circular joypad and six button layout are a dream come true for Capcom and SNK fans. It works great for a whole lot of other games, too. The only games I wouldn't want to play with it are the ones in 3D, but as many people know I've never been particularly fond of them anyway.

Wow, I replied to your entire rant without insulting or attacking you. And people thought Job had patience!

JR

[Ed Oscuro]

Another thing to consider is that the Saturn appeared in November 1994, same year as the PlayStation, but ONE MONTH earlier.

I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have a healthy, cheap console than one that uses more expensive parts, but at the moment there's really no excuse to say the Saturn sucked. The only thing I think the PlayStation really has to lord it over the Saturn would be the Dual Shock controllers which were part of the standard bundle when I bought one in 1997 or so. The Saturn had a "3D controller" but unfortunately I don't believe it was quite as widely used as the Dual Shocks.

That said, the joysticks on the PlayStation are a wee bit odd feeling. They work, but it's an odd feeling when you push one completely in one direction but don't release it. o_O

[Arcade Antics]

I see your ;) ...but still, I would be able to live the rest of my life quite happily if I never saw another "why do you do X with your collection, why do you buy unopened systems and never use them, why why why?"

Just leave that topic alone, please...

WHY?

[davidleeroth]

The problem with keeping the next-gen consoles on a carpet isn't so much overheating but the sheer amount of dust they gather inside them while on floor.

They're like vacuums while they're on and the greasy bits and laser assemblies work as a dust bag.
This guy I know has been making his living by fixing the consoles from the NES days to present. He opened a couple of 2's for me and with all that fur and stuff, they'd make a great pet for some shortsighted senior citizen.

The faults with PlayStations according to the same guy were caused by either dropping it (30%), dead laser, cd motor, the spindle itself all with 20% and the rest was miscellaneous stuff. And he must have fixed hundreds of PS's (and still does).
I honestly can't remember any more than two or three Saturns brought to repair all with some PSU (fuse) problems.
Ever heard of a Saturn with a broken spindle? Neither have I.

[Jorpho]

After everything the MAME team has managed to accomplish, from Buck Rodgers to Xexex, I would also agree that a complete Saturn emulator is inevitable.

By the time Saturn consoles truly become an endangered species, you'll probably be able to purchase sufficient media to store ISOs of every Saturn game ever made for mere pennies.

[anagrama]

Ever heard of a Saturn with a broken spindle?
Neither have I.

I have a Saturn with a broken spindle :D