Hoping for your help w/ a Famicom Disk System project [Archive]

rbudrick

04-09-2004, 02:19 PM

Ok, so the S-video one has all the pins. Cool. Thanks! That is very useful to know. I hadn't even THOUGHT of going to the store (most packages are clear plastic, lol). Great idea.

I will surely let you guys know how it goes. It is easy to load games from your PC to the Ram cart, apparently. The problem arises when you want to load games to your Drive itself (to write to the disk rather than the ram cart. The FDS drive does not allow writing directly to the disk except for some early model FDS drives. Later ones have a copy protection scheme inside. Otherwise, a mod is needed and I have not yet satisfactorily found this mod. I found one in Japanese, but I'm not positive it's what I'm looking for yet, since it describes a do-it-yourself FDS to FDS copy scheme rather than an FDS to PC. It may take me a month or two to translate the document since my Japanese is very slow, but eventually effective for the most part (I spend a loooong time trying to make sure I translate correctly). Who knows, I may even find an English mod if anyone wants to offer one.

Thanks again, and if anyone has an FDS they don't need, I can use an extra. Pm me if so.

-Rob

Zach

04-09-2004, 03:31 PM

Actually, not ALL Nintendo system compaible s-video cables have all of the pins. I have two s-video cables (both aftermarket) that only have the pins they need (5 or 6 of them) but one of my other s-video cables (also aftermarket) actually has all of the pins. So you'll want to make sure you can see the pins before you buy!!

rbudrick

04-10-2004, 01:58 PM

Hey Zach,

I got a Mad Catz one at Wal Mart today and it only had 7 pins. Any idea what brand you have there? Anyone else got any suggestions?

Thanks!

-Rob

Zach

04-10-2004, 02:32 PM

Sorry... I can't remember what brand this cable is. I have my SNES, Super Famicom, GameCube, and N64 all hooked up with aftermarket s-video cables, and I think each one is a different, random brand. Some of the cables are the ones made for multiple systems (GameCube, PS2, DC, Xbox) but none of those have all of the pins on the Nintendo connector.

But this one is a version with only the Nintendo type connector, and it has 12 pins, which I think is the max. This is NOT an official Nintendo brand item, and I know I got it for something like $12. One characteristic that sets this cable's plug apart from the others is that it seems to be very "slim". It's much more streamlined than any other cable of this type I've seen, including Nintendo's big, grey plactic connector.

And I just thought of one possible complication for using this particular cable -- the plug is molded, unlike most others which all seem to be "snapped together". I wonder if you'd even be able to get to the pins effectively to make a good solder connection (I'm assuming the non-used wires are not present in the cable.)

This got me thinking, though... what if you were to disassemble two of the cables that have a plug made out of two plastic shell pieces? Would you be able to pull the pins from one cable and add them to another in the empty spaces? Kind of like popping the pins into a do-it-yourself computer serial cable plug? One of my cables has a plug made out of clear plastic, and I can clearly see all of the wires coming out of the end of the cables and connecting directly to the back end of each of the pins. I'll bet you could steal some pins from a donor cable and snap them right into place! And voila! A 12-pin, easy to solder and reassemble, FDS cable!

rbudrick

04-10-2004, 06:46 PM

Thanks, Zach,

Taking the pins out of several cable swas actually my next step if I couldn't find a cable with 12 pins. It's totally doable.

Does anyone have a VGA cable? That's gotta have all 12 pins!

-Rob

rbudrick

04-10-2004, 07:00 PM

I might have phrased that wrongly...Perhaps a RGB (not VGA) cable would have this....or maybe a cokmponent cable?

-ROb

rbudrick

04-11-2004, 07:33 PM

I just wrote Lik Sang about their 4 Gamecube cables. I doubt they will respond, because they never do. So does no one have an RGB cable for their gamecube here?

-Rob

rbudrick

04-12-2004, 04:40 PM

I just called Nintendo about their S-video and Component cables...they were no help.

Seems their official Component and Svideo cables are not sold in stores, only directly. So, unless someone who owns one can tell me, I guess I can't find out (especially since theirs are so expensive, I wouldn't order on "just to find out").

Yeah, so anyone own a component or S-video official (or not) Nintendo cable?

-Rob

rbudrick

04-13-2004, 12:29 PM

Hey folks,

I actually heard back from Lik-Sang!:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting Lik-Sang.com, your Alternative Gaming Community.

Only the RGB Cable (for GameCube™/N64™/SNES) and SCART (SVHS signal) Cable
with audio plugs for Jap & US NTSC GameCube consoles have 12 pins in the GC
plug. And all the GC cable plug mood are fixed. You can try to opened it but
I believe it would not be able to restore its original sharp after opening.

Best regards,

Johnson - Lik-Sang.com Technical Support

Well, there we go. Assuming that all 12 wires are in the cable when I cut the end off, I should be all set.

I'd much rather be able to open the hood of the cable, but this oughta do fine.

-Rob

rbudrick

05-10-2004, 07:27 PM

Hi Folks,

I just got one of these cables working on Saturday (today being Monday). I can now load FDS images onto my Ram Adapter. Now, I need to build a cable to interface the Disk Drive unit directly to reprogram my dying disks and dump some of those I have.

Zach coincidentally just PMed me wondering how the progress is going, and here was my response, since it's easier to cut and paste than re-write. :-)

If anyone has any input, please share.

Hi There!

Glad you asked. I just got the cable working Saturday. It's actually 2 cables you have to make. One cable goes from the Parallel port to the Ram adapter. This is if you want to load a rom onto the ram cart to play on the real thing.

The second cable is to connect the acual disk system, not the ram adapter to the PC to either dump disk to the PC or to reprogram disks from the PC.

I built the first kind of cable and I intend to get cranking on the second type as soon as I get a chance. I now have all the parts, so I am good to go.

As for the SNES adapter, yep, it works with only slight modification. Otherwise, they are almost identical connectors. I went to liksang.com and their RGB/SCart cables have the right connector:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=76&products_id=2676&
AND
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=76&products_id=220&

LikSang said they were molded an un-openable, but I managed to just fine...only problem it that the 2 halves of the hood on the connector seem to be glued together, but who cares, right? So there will be a bit of breakage, but all 12 pins are there, and that's what's important. I bought them both, but eithr will actually work. I think I had an easier time opening the first one. BTW, they are both purple, thought the second one has the pic in black. But hey, maybe the one they send you will be black, heh heh.

There's only 9 of the pins actually connected, so you might as well throw the rest of the cable out and just save the tip. Use the wires on your parralel cable to make the necessary connections.

Now, since I built the first kind of cable (RamAdapter-->PC) and not (FDSUNIT-PC), I did not yet use these cables. I had to use the "male" version of this connector that I ripped off the inside of an old SNES that was broken.

Also, a little secret that not too many people know. This is real important. You will not be able to reprogram your disks with cable 2 unless you have one of the first-run FDS units. They usually have a white label on the bottom and not the pink. This is another reason I have not yet built the FDSUNIT-PC cable yet, not that I had time yet or anything, heh heh.

There is a way to defeat this copy-protection in the "newer" pink label models, but I have only found the instructions to do so in Japanese (you have to build and install a component). I have only begun to translate it....haven't gotten too far yet...mostly just the many headlines of the article and a few names of things. The instructions are actually for "disk dubbing" using 2 drives, though I imagine the copy protection defeating part is the same. Know any Japanese friends? ;-D My Japanese suuuuucks....very slow, frustrating, and tedious process for me, though usually effective.

Let me know if you have any difficulties or successes on your end or otherwise encounter anything else you think I may want to hear!

Yours,

Rob

So why doesn't DP have a resident fluent-in-Japanese staff member? I have so many different Japanese documents I need translated, and somwhere out there a Japanese student needs my money... ;-D

I'll keep you all updated on the progress of the other cable.

And people, if you do make these cables, please don't overwrite say, donkey kong with super mario. The disks are dying as it is, and we don't need mislabelled ones out there. Also, do not pirate, you jerks! Lol, j/k. Seriously. Don't pirate.

If you have a dead disk, try dumping it first. If successful, dump THAT image back onto the disk. That way, you don't have to use some other dude's .fds image you found online and thereby potentially have a slightly different sourcecode on the disk. Hey, we all know that sometimes the same games were released quietly in different versions/updates. How many of you tried a game genie code that worked at your friend's house, and not yours? Basically, let's try to keep these disks genuine if at all possible. There's a reason no one has translated that document, and it's that most NES sceners don't want you to know how to do this....I kinda don't blame them, since only a few bad apples spoil the whole damn bunch sometimes.

Please, don't be a pirate and please don't screw up good disks.

Thus endeth the sermon.

Yours,
Rob

rbudrick

05-10-2004, 07:27 PM

Hi Folks,

I just got one of these cables working on Saturday (today being Monday). I can now load FDS images onto my Ram Adapter. Now, I need to build a cable to interface the Disk Drive unit directly to reprogram my dying disks and dump some of those I have.

Zach coincidentally just PMed me wondering how the progress is going, and here was my response, since it's easier to cut and paste than re-write. :-)

If anyone has any input, please share.

Hi There!

Glad you asked. I just got the cable working Saturday. It's actually 2 cables you have to make. One cable goes from the Parallel port to the Ram adapter. This is if you want to load a rom onto the ram cart to play on the real thing.

The second cable is to connect the acual disk system, not the ram adapter to the PC to either dump disk to the PC or to reprogram disks from the PC.

I built the first kind of cable and I intend to get cranking on the second type as soon as I get a chance. I now have all the parts, so I am good to go.

As for the SNES adapter, yep, it works with only slight modification. Otherwise, they are almost identical connectors. I went to liksang.com and their RGB/SCart cables have the right connector:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=76&products_id=2676&
AND
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=76&products_id=220&

LikSang said they were molded an un-openable, but I managed to just fine...only problem it that the 2 halves of the hood on the connector seem to be glued together, but who cares, right? So there will be a bit of breakage, but all 12 pins are there, and that's what's important. I bought them both, but eithr will actually work. I think I had an easier time opening the first one. BTW, they are both purple, thought the second one has the pic in black. But hey, maybe the one they send you will be black, heh heh.

There's only 9 of the pins actually connected, so you might as well throw the rest of the cable out and just save the tip. Use the wires on your parralel cable to make the necessary connections.

Now, since I built the first kind of cable (RamAdapter-PC) and not (FDSUNIT-PC), I did not yet use these cables. I had to use the "male" version of this connector that I ripped off the inside of an old SNES that was broken.

Also, a little secret that not too many people know. This is real important. You will not be able to reprogram your disks with cable 2 unless you have one of the first-run FDS units. They usually have a white label on the bottom and not the pink. This is another reason I have not yet built the FDSUNIT-PC cable yet, not that I had time yet or anything, heh heh.

There is a way to defeat this copy-protection in the "newer" pink label models, but I have only found the instructions to do so in Japanese (you have to build and install a component). I have only begun to translate it....haven't gotten too far yet...mostly just the many headlines of the article and a few names of things. The instructions are actually for "disk dubbing" using 2 drives, though I imagine the copy protection defeating part is the same. Know any Japanese friends? ;-D My Japanese suuuuucks....very slow, frustrating, and tedious process for me, though usually effective.

Let me know if you have any difficulties or successes on your end or otherwise encounter anything else you think I may want to hear!

Yours,

Rob

So why doesn't DP have a resident fluent-in-Japanese staff member? I have so many different Japanese documents I need translated, and somwhere out there a Japanese student needs my money... ;-D

I'll keep you all updated on the progress of the other cable.

And people, if you do make these cables, please don't overwrite say, donkey kong with super mario. The disks are dying as it is, and we don't need mislabelled ones out there. Also, do not pirate, you jerks! Lol, j/k. Seriously. Don't pirate.

If you have a dead disk, try dumping it first. If successful, dump THAT image back onto the disk. That way, you don't have to use some other dude's .fds image you found online and thereby potentially have a slightly different sourcecode on the disk. Hey, we all know that sometimes the same games were released quietly in different versions/updates. How many of you tried a game genie code that worked at your friend's house, and not yours? Basically, let's try to keep these disks genuine if at all possible. There's a reason no one has translated that document, and it's that most NES sceners don't want you to know how to do this....I kinda don't blame them, since only a few bad apples spoil the whole damn bunch sometimes.

Please, don't be a pirate and please don't screw up good disks.

Thus endeth the sermon.

Yours,
Rob

rbudrick

05-10-2004, 07:54 PM

Is it just me, or is there something seriously worng with the formatting in this thread now...my last post got multiplied and had babies all over the place or something! The whole thread looks all nasty on my end, but all the rest of DP is fine...WTF?

-ROb

charitycasegreg

05-10-2004, 08:03 PM

yes...the page is really messed up

rbudrick

05-11-2004, 01:12 PM

Oh well, so the page is messed up. Glad it isn't just me, ciz generally, I'm really messed up, lol jk!

Zach is very enthusiastic about building his own cables and asked me for some tips. Here's what I told him:

Hi Zach!

Here's everything you need in one handy file:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/fdsloadr.zip

It is a program and instructions for building the cable. As for diagrams, they aren't very good visually, imo (no pretty colored diagrams) but they are very complete.....just make sure you read the instructions very carefully. It seems apparent that Brad Taylor (the author) is a bit of a techie and almost talks right over the average dude's head, but just stays at eye level, heh heh. Lol, seriously, he did an excellent job though...no complaints here....the guy is a whiz.

What I did was take his "wiring diagram," which is really just a chart with pin numbers on it and drew on a seperate sheet some pictures of the plugs and connected the dots between them, ya know? I'm kind of a visual person, so I sorta needed that, but his text diagram is fine...you'll see what I mean when you read it. I had to read the whole doc like 10 times, but it all sank in just fine. Seroiously, any beginner in soldering can do it and the hardest part is just finding the components you need.

Here's what I needed:

-Solder
-Soldering iron
-Solder sucker---cuz you'll make a few mistakes, heh heh. Oh, and you'll need to aquire your connectors using one of these.
-SNES/GC/N64 female connecter (from a cable)
-SNES/GC/N64 Male connector (from an SNES/N64/GC)
-A "straight thru" DB25 Male to male parallel cable--cut this in half so you have one for each cable.
-A multimeter--use this to find what pin on the Parallel cable goes to what wire...can't not know that!
-A wire stripper...makes it easy to shave a bit of the plastic shield off of each wire.
-A wire clipper/snipper--well you don't need all the wires on the parallel cable! Snip them out of the way. May be necessary to snip away a bit of an unessecary mesh metal shielding in the parallel cable too.
-A hot glue gun--I used this to coat all the exposed fragile wires AFTER I tested the cable to be sure it worked.
-A non-WinXP/2000/Maybe NT machine to test it on. Yep, you have to boot your machine into pure dos mode....no way that I know around it.
-A drill--this will be used to sorta shave a couple inside corners of the SNES connector you'll take out of the SNES or GC or N64. Otherwise, you cold just shave a bit off the FDS RAM adapter cable, but that would be a shame to harm it, imo.
-An exacto knife or razor--Makes it easier to shave a couple inches of the big layer of plastic from the parallel cable. Also helps if the wires are too small in the parallel cable for the wire stripper to work with it. :-) In addition, you may use this to shave that nub off the top of the SNES connector to make it fit in the FDS unit.

Also, you will need these for the FDS-PC cable:
-Probably some superglue to put the two halves of the SNES connector back together (from that lik sang cable I was talking about). This might help to keep the AC port in place too...but hot glue might help for all this.
-An ac adapter that you can set to 5 volts (universal is probably fine)
-A connector to plug the ac adapter into that you can connect to the cable somehow.

These are needed because when using the FDS-PC cable, the FDS unit needs power it ususally receives from the RAM adapter (in addition to the batteries/ac adapter it also needs as usual), which receives its power from the Famicom. Since you can't have the RAM adapter AND the cable connected at the same time, its gotta get power from somewhere. Check out how this guy worked his power port right into his cable connector on this japanese doc to dub disks:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/fdscopy.zip

If you end up doing that (embedding the AC port into the plug), then I suppose you'd need the drill again, but you can really connect the power port anywhere (have it hanging off the connector or whatever). I personally don't recommend Brad Taylor's technique of using a power cable from inside your PC to supply this power...sounds like a pain in the ass to me.

Oooh, look, a new doc I can't read for another disk dubbing system:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/fds-copytool2.zip

Make a chart of what color wire on the parallel cable goes to which pin on the parallel cable. Cross reference this with the "wiring diagram" in the docs. to figure out which color wires will go to your snes connector(s).

BTW, I found a white label FDS unit on Ebay today! Now I will be able to write to disks, I hope!

It's actually not totally the label color that determines it. You have to open your system, open the actual disk drive component and look at what chip set you have. If the chip is labelled with a 3206 then you have one that won't write (probably a pink label machine). If it is labelled with a 7201, you are good to go. Generally, the white label machines have the 7201. However, I heard that some in Hong Kong have actually switched the labels...whatever...maybe they just switched the bottoms of the unit, but isn't that weird?

Um, I guess that's it. Let me know if you have any more questions!

Yours,

Rob

I hope that is useful to all....

-Rob

Raccoon Lad

05-11-2004, 02:24 PM

Please delete those ASCII arrows (the ---- followed by a >)

THAT'S what's screwing up the page.

rbudrick

05-13-2004, 12:37 PM

Thanks, Red!

Looks like that did the trick.

I made the FDS-PC cable a couple nights ago and I am trying to get it to work now. The confusion is when you start the program. See, when you start the fdsloadr.com program you must use a command line command with the program name followed by the .fds file name. Like this:

fdsloadr.com dokidoki.fds

Then the program starts up in RAM adapter or DiskDrive Unit mode depending on which cable is connected.

Now in RAM adapter mode, that is fine, cuz that command line specifies what file to load onto th FDS RAM adapter. When you use the other cable (the FDS Unit-PC cable) you can a) dump a disk, or b) load a .fds image onto a disk (if you have a writeable drive). If I had a writeable drive, I could easily use that same command line command to load a .fds image onto a disk. However, I don't understand how I am supposed to start the program when I just want to READ a disk and dump it to the PC, since I have to specify a file name. How can I specify a file name if I haven't dumped it yet?

Well, I read to the last page of the docs that come with fdsloadr and it mentions that I am supposed to create a valid fds image with a 16-byte header. Uhhhh, uummm, ok. How do I do that? I haven't the slightest clue.

So I guess I have to make this file first, name it, use it in a command line command, dump the disk, and save it to the file name I created....or something.

I wrote the author of the fdsloadr program, so maybe he will be able to be more specific. But in the mean time, anyone got any ideas?

-Rob

Zach

05-15-2004, 01:37 PM

Well, I built the first cable myself. And much to my surprize, it worked on the first try! No re-soldering required!

I did have a little trouble, though, trying to get it to work with my Pentium laptop. The laptop would load up the FDS files, but the Famicom Disk System's RAM adapter was getting an error when it tried to actually access the file from the computer. The documentation mentions that the software did not work on laptops in the early versions, but it seemed to imply that it should work now. Well, for me, it wasn't working until I tried using a normal desktop Pentium II system.

Now that I'm using the desktop system, everything's cool. And I even took a few pictures for everyone to check out (if there's ever anyone other than me and Rob looking at this thread!!) :)

http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/thumbnail/FDS_cable1.jpg (http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/fullsize/FDS_cable1.jpg)http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/thumbnail/FDS_cable4.jpg (http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/fullsize/FDS_cable4.jpg)http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/thumbnail/FDS_cable6.jpg (http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/fullsize/FDS_cable6.jpg)http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/thumbnail/FDS_cable7.jpg (http://www.zachcollier.com/fdscable/fullsize/FDS_cable7.jpg)

I built the edge card connector out of an old ISA network card. I used a Dremel tool to cut out a nice, little rectangle of circuit board and I trimmed the section with the pins down so that it would be small enough to fit right into the end of the RAM adapter's cable end. To make it prettier and more durable, I mounted the whole assembly inside a little Radio Shack project box. It was a nice, tight fit, and I drilled a hole in the board to allow the box's assembly screw to fit through, which also helped make everything nice and secure. I had to trim some more card off of one side to make room for the large printer cable to fit inside the box. When everything's all put together it really looks and works great!

Big thanks to Rob for his help on this project. I'll be building the PC to FDS cable soon!

y-bot

05-15-2004, 02:26 PM

Hi, would either of you be willing to re-program a few disks for me? I have 5-10 disks that either don't work or have the wrong games on them. I don't have a PC so there is no way I could ever do it myself.
Thanks, y-bot

rbudrick

05-16-2004, 02:12 AM

Y-bot,

Once I get the cable working, I would be prefectly willing to do it if you supplied the roms to reprogram them along with all postage costs/materials up front.

However, there's two probelms with that. First, I haven't got my FDS to PC cable working yet. Second, These cables are not extremely difficult to make. I would very much encourge you to make your own cables, as your disks are just going to die again anyway, eventually. In fact, I'm willing to help you through it when you get stuck. It's kinda one of the reasons I 'm keeping this thread going, because I want to help everyone who needs help with this. In fact, as a payment to the author of fdsloadr, I am spreading the word. When I asked him how I could repay him he said he just would like me to spread the word about his program as much as possible, because he wants as many people as possible to get enjoyment out of it. It's the least I can do, and as many on this board know, I'm very generous with my willingness to help others achieve their gaming goals when possible. The more people I can help, the more they can help others, and so on. Besides, wouldn't you love to have a set of these cables!? :-)

As a side note, the fds to PC cable requires a power source of 5 volts from an *external* source. Has anyone ever seen a universal power supply with a 5 volt setting? It seems they all skip from 4.5 to 6.

Talk soon!

-Rob

y-bot

05-16-2004, 03:08 AM

Hi, I have a Mac G3 not a PC and i don't know anything about ROMS or emulation or any of that kind of stuff. I can build cables though. I made one for my Coleco Kid Vid Cassette player. I have a Sharp Twin Famicom that I put a new belt in that works pretty good and a regular Famicom & Disk System that I haven't bothered putting a new belt in because I can't get it to work on any of my TV sets anyway.
Thanks, y-bot

rbudrick

05-16-2004, 08:28 PM

Hey Y-bot,

I doubt Virtual PC would do the trick, but I'm sure you could pick up a crappy Win 98 machine at a flea market or something for $50-150. If you don't know much about roms, then it would truly be best if you searched for some online. It would be extremely time consuming for me to find them for you. They are sometimes very elusive to find (well, .fds images are....regular .nes images are everywhere).

However, like I said, if youcan find the roms first, then I could still give it a shot once this machine is working properly.

Now, with that being said, I have made progress, but hit a new snag. To sum it up, it is easiest to jst paste the email I just sebt the author:

Hey Brad,

Great news! The FDS-PC cable is working, and I managed to make it work with a 4.5 volt ac adapter. All I needed to do is try it on another system. Seems it will work with the RAM cable on the laptop fine, abut won't work with the FDS cable on the laptop.

However, and error came up that I'd never seen before. I dumped Doki Doki Panic to a valid fds file (another completely different game), saved and exited and loaded the game. It loaded great (at first)! Now, if you've never played Doki Doki Panic before, after you load side A, the title screen comes up, and then you load side B. After I loaded Side B, it loaded, and then this:

SORRY...

PLEASE USE
OFFICIAL DISK WRITER SHOP

"Sorry" was in red letters, the three dots were orange, green and white in that order and the last 2 lines were white, not that any of that matters...just giving you a visual.

Now, I believe this is because I have one of the disk systems with copy protection built in (pink label with a 3206? chip set).

Ever seen this particular error before? I thought it only errored out on "Reprogram" mode.

Either way, I have a white label 7201? chipset version in the mail to me now, so I'll test that soon. :-)

Talk soon! Thanks again!

Yours,
Rob

So there you have it, folks. By the way, Zach brought up something to me that I was thinking about earlier but wanted to avoid. Instead of the 4.5 volt adapter, you could use, in Zach's words:

A 7805 Voltage Regulator. You should be able to get one of these at any electronic component store, maybe even Radio Shack. Essentially, it's a three pin transistor that takes in anywhere from 6 to 35 volts and outputs 5 volts. You could build this into the cable assembly and then you could power it with a variety of DC power supplies. Let me know if you need some more info on this option.

An awesome idea (I think I was thinking of 7801, but Zach is probably right). I just wanted to avoid that because it would make it overly complicated for the beginner (and non-beginner....extra steps=blegh).

I'll keep you folks posted when I get my older model fds drive.

-Rob

rbudrick

05-17-2004, 03:26 AM

Well folks,

Looks like that error is not because of my drive having the copy protection hardware in it at all. It seems it is a result of a software copy protection scheme that is built into some disks. The author of fdsloadr explained to me:

the error is a result of a simple software-based copy protection scheme. here's more (from the "FDS technical reference" guide, available at nesdev.parodius.com):

************************************
Software disk copy protection
-----------------------------
Special thanks to Chris Covell for bringing this to my attention.

Apparently, some FDS disks implement a very simple copy protection scheme, which the game relies on in order for the game to refuse to work on the copied disk. Normally, the number of files that exist on an FDS disk is stored in the second block recorded on it. However, some games maintain "invisible" files, which are basically files that exist beyond what the file count number in the file count block indicates. This poses somewhat of a problem for copy software like FDSLOADR, since these tools rely on the file count block, and don't assume that there is any valid data past the last file found on the disk. This means that when these types of disks are copied, the invisible files will be lost, and when the game loads the files that do exist, the game's going to give the user heat about there being a file missing or somthing, gumming up the works. However in practice, when an FDS disk is programmed, the unused end of the disk is usually completely zeroed out, and this makes detecting the end of the disk simple: just wait to find a GAP period of extreme length. Except in rare cases, this model for detecting the true end of an FDS disk should generally provide the best results for copying the complete contents for all types of FDS disks.
**************************

so in other words, FDSLOADR can't really dump games of this type (I designed it before I was even aware of the software disk copy protection scheme). However, have you ever heard of www.edgeemu.com? they host some 200+ FDS ROMs (along with ROMs for about 50+ other game platforms too), so you may not even need to dump your own FDS games (well, unless you want to preserve saved game files).

In the short run, I can't really help you. I've discontinued development of FDSLOADR quite some time ago. If I had someone/people to work/collaborate with, I may consider revising it with relivant updates (like circumventing the software copy protection), but these days I've been busy with more advanced projects (like starting an integrated NES/SNES emulator, and even designing a 3D-based operating system). It would be nice to be able to pass the torch on to others who want to improve the quality of the FDSLOADR software (and to be specific: produce a working program under modern OSes), but the program needs dedicated processor time (as this was the trade-off for using no discrete digital electronic parts), which doesn't really make it suitable for development on multitaskable OSes like Linux or that other one I hate.

The real problem is manpower here. I originally wrote FDSLOADR in assembly, but nowadays reading assembly code makes me cringe (as I now use schematic diagrams to display how software works with pictures, meanwhile maintaining the equivelant logic function granularity that assembly is famous for). At any rate, the whole program's architecture needs to be re-designed, and this not somthing that can be done in a short amount of time (as the existing version took 5 months to code, not to mention the time I spent changing the program to adapt to the speed of the PC it runs on).

Anyway, let me know of your progess,

peace.

So, unless someone can find a work-around for it, we're screwed for dumping those certaiin games. Not too many people have the knowledge to code for this kind of thing, so unless anyone you know does and might want to collaborate with Brad, this won't get fixed. Personally, I would like to see a list of FDS games that do this...

Yours,
Rob

Simplynes

05-24-2004, 12:10 PM

I just love bringing dead threads back to life. :)

I am thinking about making the FDS-PC cable soon and was wondering if anyone else has attempted it? Zach did you ever get around to it and if so would it be possible to have some nice pictures like you did for the first cable?. :D

Zach

05-24-2004, 12:21 PM

Yes, Simplynes. I acutally just finished building the other cable last night. And I tried it out, but it doesn't seem to be working. I am not sure what the problem is, but I've not even begun to troubleshoot yet, so I still have my hopes up.

And yes, I will certinaly post some pictures when I have it working. It's another pretty good-looking project, if I do say so myself, so I'd be happy to show it off!!! :)

By the way, I built the connector out of two MadCatz SNES/GameCube S-video/AV cables. I took the two ends apart, stole all of the pins from one, and added them to the other to get a fully populated connector. Worked like a charm! Pictures coming soon!

Simplynes

05-24-2004, 03:42 PM

Look forward to the pictures, I'm still waiting for the A/V cable from lik-sang before I can get started. :)

lewellyn

05-25-2004, 11:23 PM

I, too, am interested in the results of all of this. I just received a PAL Famicom (clone, I think, but internal inspection makes me really wonder...), now I'm just waiting for a PAL tuner card to arrive (as my main computer monitor is bigger than my TV-watching device), then I will get myself an FDS to play with.

As I will most likely be purchasing my FDS from eBay (I'm lazy), what questions should I be asking to ensure I don't end up with one with copy-protection?

I have many, many questions, so I'll stop myself at one more for now: where can I purchase blank disks cheaply? I know I'll be coming across plenty of marginal disks, so I'd like to be able to have a few blanks on-hand. (Even if it's only a few... I mean, half of the exercise here is writing the discs back, right? LOL )

Anyway, keep up the good work. Hopefully, I'll be in the "successful" camp soon enough!

--Matt

P.S. One more question: How much should I be willing to pay for a FDS/RAM Adaptor? I'm afraid of spending too much just to find that it has a bad belt... :( And it seems there is currently a wide varience in price for a reason I can't discern...

davidleeroth

05-26-2004, 01:43 AM

lewellyn

05-26-2004, 05:10 AM

Just to note FDS won't work with Famicom clones (I suspect that your's is a clone as there's no such thing as a PAL Famicom).
You'll have to get yourself a Japanese Famicom or a Top-loader NES. It will work with a regular NES, too, but you'll have to solve the physical incompatibility of it.

Well... First, I know I've seen at least one clone working with the FDS. Second, as I said, I only think it's a clone. There are a few (big) giveaways:

1) It's got AV-out.
2) It's black.
3) It's got no Nintendo logo anywhere.
4) The controllers are definitely not Nintendo. (Turbo buttons, for one. The size is slightly off, for two...)

However, internally it looks like a real Famicom. And if it's a clone, I wish they had done what all the other makers did and give detachable joysticks... ;)

I'm willing to give it a shot with a FDS. If it doesn't work, I can always get a real Famicom fairly cheap.

--Matt

P.S. If anyone's willing to help me determine more about my unit, please feel free to PM me. I want to keep this thread on-topic. (*psst* It's about cables, if you forgot to read the first page... ;)) But, some possibly helpful information about my console... On the back, I have the following switches and ports instead of the normal ones: AC Adaptor, 50/60 switch (which leads me to think it's PAL), Audio RCA, Video RCA, TV VHF hookup (RCA).

Simplynes

05-26-2004, 05:26 AM

There are PAL Famicom clones I have three, anyway most of the time a Famicom Clone will work with the FDS the only problem is some times the plastic around the cartridge slot is higher than it should be and the RAM adaptor cannot reach the slot. This can be solved by removing the top of the system but I suggest getting a A/V Famicom while they're still pretty cheap and they're great. :)

As for blank disks ebay is your only shot unless you know someone in Japan, When I was after my first FDS I waited months for one to be listed that had a lot of disks with it.

Simplynes

05-26-2004, 03:37 PM

Zach do the MadCatz cables have a hard rubber casing on the connector or is it a normal hard plastic? I got bored of waiting for the lik-sang cable so I started to search through my box of cables and actually found one with all 12 pins only problem was the rubber casing around the connector made it impossible to get into without damaging it but i tried anyway and failed :( I'm just hoping the lik-sang cable isn't going to be the same.

Zach

05-26-2004, 03:43 PM

The MadCatz connector is made of clear, hard plastic. There are two halves that snap together, and if you're gentle, you can pop them apart without doing any damage to any of the plastic clips or pins that hold everything together. And once you de-solder the wires, you'll be able to slide the individual pins right out of one connector and into another one to make all 12 connections. Very slick way to go for building this cable!

I haven't messed with my cable since the first time I tried. I'll let everyone know when I get it working.

Ed Oscuro

05-26-2004, 03:53 PM

1) It's got AV-out.
2) It's black.
3) It's got no Nintendo logo anywhere.
4) The controllers are definitely not Nintendo. (Turbo buttons, for one. The size is slightly off, for two...)
That actually sounds vaguely like a Famicom titler, not sure about the turbo buttons but some of Sharp's Famicom systems had a turbo switch. On the other hand, it's not likely to be a Titler because they're expensive and it's got S-Video, not just A/V out. Not sure about the Nintendo logo, but I don't think my Sharp Fami has one.

rbudrick

05-26-2004, 04:22 PM

Famiclones are almost always compatible with the FDS if it can reach the slot.

Now, regarding what to look for to find a compatible FDS, I just received a new FDS last night with a white label on the bottom (I hear this generally indicates an older model w/o the copy protection). It in fact, HAD the copy protection and DIDN'T EVEN WORK! Guy said he tested it, whatever...

So, only use that whole white label thing as a general guideline....it's really not the best indicator. However, ALL of the pink label machines (AFAIK...not fact, could be total bull), have the copy protection. Some say Hong Kong units may be switched, but whatever, mine was from Thailand.

The main thing you must know is the chipset in the machine. The only way to find out is to open it up and look. Open it and take out the actual drive. Open the bottom of the drive and pull the board slightly out enough to get a look at the bottom of it. If there is a chip labelled FD3206 something, it has the copy protection. If it has a 7201 (or maybe FD7201 something), then you are good to go. Unfortunately, that's the only definite way. Otherwise you can try the work around featured here (in Japanese):

http://nesdev.parodius.com/fdscopy.zip

Or

http://nesdev.parodius.com/fds-copytool2.zip

The first doc is actually instructions to build an FDS to FDS dubbing cable and the second half of the first doc is how to build the copy-protection defeating mechanism. If anyone can figure out that part, lemme know! Stupid black and white scans....sheesh.

As far as finding blanks, plenty of japanese shops sell em. Don't pay more than 5-8 bucks for em.

I also may have found a new mega supply on them, but I will keep you in suspense until I know my facts....this might be a huge breakthrough on the origins of these odd little 2.8' disks. I'll keep you posted.

-Rob

davidleeroth

05-26-2004, 05:06 PM

I have three Famiclones and one Famicom. On the Famiclones the FDS doesn't work (I can assure you reaches the connectors as I have tested them without casing) but on the Famicom it works every time. I guess I have been struck by bad luck on those clones.

Well, actually the Famicom was pwned last summer by a lightning or a power surge but it worked well before that. The Ram adapter was slightly damaged, too (scrambled graphics) but could be used for projects. Pay the postage and it's yours. I have a spare one waiting a new Famicom.

Zach

05-26-2004, 05:30 PM

I have two drives. One has a white label, and the other one has a pink label. I just took both of them apart, and they BOTH have a chip inside that says FD7201P. I wonder what that means. Does the "P" stand for "Protection"? :)

Seriously, any idea if the P means anything? I still haven't gotten the PC to FDS cable working, but I have a feeling that I might just not know what I'm doing with the software. It's just unresponsive in this mode. Rob, can you explain a little more about the process of reading a disk? I just want to get that working first, then I'll dive into the writing process. Does it start reading the disk automatically? Does the drive spin the whole time you're in the software? What keys do you hit to initiate the transfer? Stuff like that...

rbudrick

05-27-2004, 12:56 PM

Hey Zach,

Could I please buy one of those 7201 drives off of you? Send me a PM if this is cool. That would be awesome since I've had an incredibly difficult time finding one!

As far as reading the disks, it's like this:

Start the program using the command line:

fdsloadr.com anyfdsimage.fds

The fds image you reference in that command line can be any valid game that's already been dumped. If you wanna dump. say, Falsion and you have a SMBros2.fds image, that's fine. Type, say fdsloadr.com smbros2.fds. Just make a copy of that file before you overwrite it. :-)

Then, if you haven't inserted your actual FDS disk yet of Falsion, for example, insert it now. The dumping of side A should automatically start. When you hear the motor of the drive stop, hit "2" on your keyboard, and turn the disk around to side B. You should see red bars fill up when you do both sides. When side 2 is finished dumping, fit F2 (or is it F4?) to save the file. It will merge both sides it dumped onto that image you referenced in the command line, overwriting it. Rename the file now if you want. Try the image in an emu or switch cables to load it onto RAM adapter.

I don't think the P on that chip stands for anything, really.

If you want to overwrite an actual disk, switch the program to reprogram mode (instead of read mode) and then insert the disk to start the process. It works pretty much the same as in read mode, from my understanding. Now, obviously, since I have a 3206 drive, I haven't yet tried the reprogram mode yet, but I believe this is how it works.

Try overwriting a disk to see if your 7201 drive will do it. If you don't have a blank, try overwriting a disk that has failed working. Usually they just have to be remagnetized with the image, I hear.

My ram adapter to PC cable works on my laptop, but my FDSunit to PC cable only works on my desktop. Weird, huh? If you are sure your wiring is correct, all I can say is try a different PC. It took me a while to figure that one out. Pain in the ass for many, I'm sure. I am seriously considering putting a second partition on my HD to put a win98 partition on there to see if I can use this program without having to borrow my girlfriend's laptop or my dad's desktop.

-Rob

lewellyn

05-27-2004, 01:35 PM

I am seriously considering putting a second partition on my HD to put a win98 partition on there to see if I can use this program without having to borrow my girlfriend's laptop or my dad's desktop.

This leads into something I was wondering: which operating systems has this been tested to work OK on? I was planning to be doing this sort of thing from either a 486 or 1st gen Pentium PC-DOS machine. (Yeah, I've got all sorts of old stuff around here...)

But if it works OK in some form of Windows (which would surprise me, based on the earlier comments from the program's author), that would keep life simpler for me and others, I'm sure... :)

--Matt

rbudrick

05-27-2004, 07:38 PM

If you download the FDSLoadr program, it comes with some docs explaining what hardware it will work on. A 486 probably won't cut it. You need at least a pentium based processor, as fast as possible. You will probably need Win95 or 98 booted into pure DOS mode, though. Download the program and it should have all those details, because my memory is a bit fuzzy right now...but I believe there are some Pentium based processor instructions that don't exist in a 486 that are needed to run the program properly. However, the program is highly timing sensitive, so its best to get a fast machine.

-Rob

rbudrick

05-27-2004, 07:47 PM

BTW folks,

I can sometimes get it to work in WIn 98 without pure dos, but it's buggy and doesn't always work. It may not work at all with the FDSunit to PC cable...I know it worked a couple times with my Ramadapter to PC cable. But pure DOS is the way to go.

I heard rumors that io.dll, a downloadable file may allow certain parralell port based programs to function in NT based OSs (NT, 2000, XP), but I've never tried it and I sorta doubt it would work. If anyone wants to give it a shot, here's a link:

http://www.geekhideout.com/iodll.shtml

The problem lies in that NT based OSs allow for direct, straight access to hardware items like the parallel port. In the NT based OSs, it is done through software (read: emulation). This direct hardware access is necessary to allow many programs, including FDSLoadr to work. At least, that is my understanding of it.

-ROb

Simplynes

05-28-2004, 09:52 AM

I got the cable from Lik-sang today and have made a start on the cable, one thing I am not quite clear on is grounding certain wires. What exactly is grounding? I presume you just solder the wires to something but what? each other?.

rbudrick

05-28-2004, 01:38 PM

Hmmmm, how to explain ground....

The technical definition is "A large conducting body (as the earth) used as a common return for an electric circuit and as an arbitrary zero of potential." Ok, so we rarely actually use the earth itself, or the ground beneath us for anything like that. But when we do, that is why a lightening rod on a house works. It grounds the electricity, thereby discharging the jolt more safely.

Ok, one easy way to understand it is that ground in small electrical circuits is usually the negative of an electrical signal. For example, on a battery you have a positive and a negative side. The negative side is ususally grounded. You know a 3 prong plug you'd plug into a wall? That third round prong is the ground. On a circuit board, you'll almost always have a common ground trace on the board for the board to use.

Basically, almost all electrical signals (whether it be a power source or a low-level, low-voltage data signal) have to be grounded.

Usually on a cable, the metal shield on the end is grounded. This is whether it be the cables on your VCR or stereo or in a parallel cable. You ever hook up speakers before using those 2 wires (red and black)? The red is almost always power and the black is almost always ground, or it should be. :-)

So, for the sake of this cable, I believe that pins 18-25 of the parallel cable are used for ground (if memory serves correctly). It's a bit of overkill to use them all, but the instructions strongly encourage doing so. I could be wrong, but I think you solder all of them to a certain pin on the FDS side. I think it was pin 4, but I forget. Should be there in the instructions. I just twisted the tips together and soldered them to the pin on the FDS side of the cable. I never actually used the hard metal shield of the parallel cable for ground soldering, just the pin.

Hope I didn't supply you with too much info or not enough (or wrong info, heh heh). :-)

Newb questions like this are what makes this forum so great! These are highly encouraged, unlike some forums. ;-D So everyone who needs help, pipe up.

-Rob

Simplynes

05-28-2004, 02:22 PM

Got it, thanks Rob wish me luck. :D

rbudrick

05-29-2004, 12:56 AM

Hi Folks,

I just noticed something tonight that I'm surprised I never noticed before. There is a port on the back of tthe FDS Ram Adapter like the one on the back of theFDS drive. Anyone know what it is for? I never heard any mention of it before and am surprised I never noticed it before tonight...

There's this little sliding door thingy there.

-Rob

Simplynes

05-29-2004, 10:21 AM

Well i've made the cable but as I expected it isn't working. :(
When I first plug the cable into the FDS and the computer is turned on (using it's 5v line) the light comes on a I can hear the motor of the disk drive spinning. So I know at least it's getting the extra power it needs. I load the software and it detects the disk drive but when I press space bar to either read or write to the disk nothing happens. Has anyone else had this problem? Before I take the cable apart and check for problems I want to know I'm not making any mistakes with the software.

Zach

05-29-2004, 04:25 PM

That's actually almost exactly what mine is doing. It seems that the first time that I apply power to the drive (with or without a disk inserted) it starts spinning. Then it stops spinning and never starts again, no matter what I do with the software. And, yes, my software also recognizes that the disk drive cable is connected (I think it just checks one pin, so this really doesn't say much) but never actually makes the drive do anything.

Also, my drive light lights up a dim red when the cable is connected to the computer. It doesn't need the 5V adapter or the FDS power apapter to light it up.

rbudrick

05-29-2004, 07:55 PM

hHey guys,

I'm sure you both double checked your wiring, but I really can't stress enough trying it on another PC...that's what I ended up needing to do. If I remember correctly, I had a very similar problem.

Oh, and you shouldn't have to press the space bar to get it started. It will automatically start dumping sida A when you beign the program (if the disk is already inserted.). If it insn't alreaady inserted when you start the program it shoould start dumping side a once you insert it. The space bar is really only to begin a new transfer.

-Rob

Zach

05-29-2004, 10:13 PM

Yeah, I had to switch computers to get the "PC to RAM Adapter" cable working.

But so far, I've tried this "PC to FDS" cable on three computers and they all behave the same way. Just sitting there idle.

So I'm making the cable again, this time using a more expensive, thicker printer cable. The one I used for my first attempt was an older cable, and I think that maybe the conductors are a little small. Just a guess. I'll let you all know if I have any better luck with my second version of this cable.

Simplynes

05-30-2004, 08:02 AM

Let us know how you get on Zach, I might have to do the same as I've resoldered every wire it still doesn't work. The only thing I can think of that might be causing it is a wire in the cable without any plastic covering it does anyone know what this is for? as all 25 wires are accounted for.

rbudrick

05-30-2004, 01:16 PM

Hey guys,

Email me a diagram of your wiring. Make sure to detail wether I am looking at the back or the front of either tip. Also, did you snip away unnecesary wires on the parallel cable? Was there a metal mesh or a large unshielded wire in the parallel cable along with the 25 standard wires? Snip it away too so it doesnt interfere. My addresss is rbudrick at hotmail dot com.

Actually, Simplenes, that sounds like your ground wire, not that you need that one (hey, we've got pins 18-25). It is usually attached not to a pin but to the metal shield you see on the outside tip of the cable.

-Rob

rbudrick

05-30-2004, 01:17 PM

As a last resort, if nothing woks, you guys could mail me the cables and I could try them on one of my computers...

-Rob

lewellyn

05-30-2004, 03:55 PM

That, usually braided copper, wire is probably connected to the shield. If you don't want it to be floating, tie it to your ground. (That's pretty much its use, anyway...) rbrudrick beat me to it...

And, I'm probably going to be heading out to Best Buy today... Just to make sure, I"m Looking for a Mad Catz N64 S-Video cable, right? Or any other with all the pins? (I seem to recall Pelican's cable having a lot more pins than some of the others I've seen...)

--Matt

Zach

05-30-2004, 05:11 PM

Yes, you want the MadCatz GameCube/N64/SNES S-video cable.

The ones that I have used have a system end connector made of clear (or dark grey "smoked") plastic. They are made of two halves that can be taken apart gently and "snapped" back together.

There's also a universal cable that's made for GameCube, Xbox, and PS2, and the GameCube connector on there should be the same one. If you need a cable for an Xbox or PS2 anyway, get this one, take off the GameCube conenctor, and you still have a fully-functional Xbox/PS2 cable!

Simplynes

05-30-2004, 06:30 PM

rbudrick

05-31-2004, 04:26 AM

I think I have made some progress, now when the cable is attached to the FDS the red light at the front stays on all the time and is very dim. Then when I insert a disk it lights right up and stays like that. Although it still wont dump or rewrite to the disks I think it's not that cable at fault and that it's the computer. Rob does the red light on your FDS stay on the hole time the cable is plugged in? also any chance you could check your bios for what setting you have it on EPP, ECP etc?.

Hey Simplenes,

I do notice that the light is extremely dim when no disk is inserted. When a disk is inserted (whether fdsloadr has been started already or not), the light shines pretty brightly. Whne loading a side finishes, the light goes out (or goes dim...I forget). When the next side begins to dump, and I reinsert the disk, as long as side one dumped ok it will begin to load side 2 and it lights up again.

Now, you said it lights up when you put in a disk and stays on?

Weird...well, at least your power connection is probably good.

-Rob

rbudrick

05-31-2004, 04:36 AM

Hey folks,

Remember that error I mentioned I was getting on the second to last post on page 1 of this thread when I dump disks? Well I"m starting to find that almost every game I dump does this (or something similaar depending on the brand). Now I know that this isn't a huge issue because most games are already dumped, but it would be nice to backup my save files.

Hopefully it will write the files to disk just fine tho. Gotta get a good drive first.

An even better program than FDS loader would be one that would let you connect the FDS drice like a zip ddrive and actually see the files on the disk in explorer...sigh....who could possiblly write drivers for that...

Anyone got any idea about that extra port on the ram adapter I mentioned?Turns out it's 10 pin and slightly smaller than the regular ram adapter plug....but relatively the same shape....so weird...

-Rob

Simplynes

05-31-2004, 06:46 AM

Rob bios settings? :)

rbudrick

06-01-2004, 02:47 PM

Oh, right, it's on SPP for the machine/cable that can do the dumping. :-) Sorry, forgot to write that. :-)

-Rob

rbudrick

06-03-2004, 04:57 PM

Congrats to Zach who just got his fds to PC cable working! Turns out he had it in upside down due to an upside down diagram in the docs.

He can't get it to reprogram disks though, even though he has a 7201 rive...hmmmm. Let us know, Zach. I advised him to check wether the write-protect tab was broken off.

-Rob

Simplynes

06-03-2004, 06:56 PM

Congrats Zach, which diagram is upside down in the doc? Still haven't got mine working. :(

rbudrick

06-04-2004, 02:36 AM

simplynes,

Just make the cable as it is in the docs and then try the cable upsiide sown in the system. The diagram of the front of the adapter plug is backwards.

-Rog

lewellyn

06-04-2004, 03:13 AM

I was wondering: If I were to obtain a Sharp Twin Famicom, this whole thing is kinda moot, right? I'm still on the lookout for a disk system to try all this out on... ;)

I think I have a solid lead on both a Sharp Twin and a regular FDS. (Lucky me! :-P) As soon as I have one in my grubby mitts, I hope to add myself to the list of successes! 8-)

Simplynes

06-04-2004, 09:05 AM

Thanks Rob/Zach after spending hours on end remaking a cable three times that didn't need fixing to begin with it's finally up and running. @_@ LOL

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pjhogger/flym.gif http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pjhogger/flym2.gif http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pjhogger/hacker.gif

woooooooooooohooooooooooo.

Zach

06-04-2004, 09:23 AM

Congratulations, Simplynes!

So if your cable working for reading AND reprogramming disks? So far mine reads just fine, but still won't reprogram using either of my drives! :(

Simplynes

06-04-2004, 09:43 AM

No it wont reprogram but I don't have a white label system, it just freezes the computer when I try. Only my twin famicom has the drive with the copy function but I don't really want to swap the drives around unless I have to.

rbudrick

06-04-2004, 12:32 PM

Congrats, Simplynes!

Concerning the Twin Famicom:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=general&Number=162&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=twin%2525252520famicom&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts

Simplynes, tell us more about this disk (does it work?):

http://simplynes.emucamp.com/hacker.html

I've never seen the disk image for this (you mention there that it is uncopyable). Do you think fdsloadr could dump it? They're so rare, It'd be awesome to have that backed up...it'd be a shame to lose it to history once it dies.

By the way folks, I'm currently researching another way to grab images from FDS disks using a very different sort of solution. I"ll let you know when I have more details...

Oh, and the whole white label thing went out the window when Zach found that his pink label system had the 7201 chipset in it, so that's what you need to look out for. However, that link above adds another piece of the puzzle. AN500R drive? That's the first I heard of that....

Zach, any luck with the reprogramming tips (or I hope they were) I PMed you? If you get it working, let us know your serial numbers on your drives...it may be a hint as to what numbers (at least below that number in production) would have the correct chipset.

Zach, do you see any hint of the model number of the drive unit inside? Does it say anything like AN500R on it? I'll check at home tonight what model mine is, if listed somewhere...

Simplynes, did you get a chance to examine what chip is on your drive unit? Is it the 3206 or the 7201?

-Rob

Simplynes

06-04-2004, 01:08 PM

That hacker page is pretty old but most the info is correct. The hacker cannot copy itself luckily fdsloadr had no problems dumping the image. :)

AN500R is the first or at least an early model twin famicom which pretty much guarantee's a 7201 chipset. I have three standalone disk systems but as hacker doesn't load on any of them I presume they all have the 3206 chipset. I will test them with fdsloadr though just to make sure.

rbudrick

06-04-2004, 02:48 PM

Simplynes,

I'd like to test that image on my machine too, if possible. Could you email that my way to rbudrick at hotmail dot com? Zach, I'd bet this would be helpful for you to test this image too, since you have a 7201 drive.

I came across some info on the Disk Hacker program. Apparently there were verions 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and Disk Hacker II.

Check out these links. I post the google caches in some cases because babelfish.alatavista.com will only "translate" them and not the original pages.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:keS7Kh0I1vkJ:osaka.cool.ne.jp/k1/disktop.html+%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B3% E3%83%B3+%22disk+hacker%22&hl=en&lr=lang_ja

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:oGhtwFZVjC4J:osaka.cool.ne.jp/k1/diskcopy.html+%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B3 %E3%83%B3+%22disk+hacker%22&hl=en&lr=lang_ja

Now here's a site that I believe explores that whole serial number issue (jackpot?). Check out the hyperlinks on that page, I believe it also talks about how to defeat the copy protection:

http://www02.so-net.ne.jp/~disk/hazu.html
http://www02.so-net.ne.jp/~disk/zu1.html

Oh, and I keep finding info about this program that goes hand in hand somehow with disk hacker, called Disk Keeper (don't know jack about it):

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:rJscm93zwLgJ:ogw-a.hp.infoseek.co.jp/disk-list/disk0137.htm+%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B3% E3%83%B3++%22%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AF% E3%83%8F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%22&hl=en&lr=lang_ja

And what the hell is this?

http://ogw-a.hp.infoseek.co.jp/disk-list/disk0141.htm

It reminds me of one of Chris Covell's programs that allows you to see the file names on an FDS image...in fact, that's exactly what it looks like...

Now, I was talking to lewellyn, and I was telling him how much my Japanese sucks. I know about enough to be dangerous, and that's about it. Is there anyone who speaks Japanese fluently on this forum able to help out with this (translating these web pages, etc?).

I"m even willing to pay someone to translate alot of this stuff! Especially these:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/fdscopy.zip
http://nesdev.parodius.com/fds-copytool2.zip

Talk soon. :-)

-Rob