Factor 5 leaves Nintendo

[Drexel923]

Fresh off the heels of Silicon Knights another above average developer has cut their ties. I think I'm now seriously worried about Nintendo's future, and if you know me you might be worried too.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/506/506508p1.html

[Querjek]

What did Factor 5 do? The name sounds familiar, but I can't think of any of their work right now.

As long as we don't lose HAL we're fine.

I hope...

[Drexel923]

What did Factor 5 do? The name sounds familiar, but I can't think of any of their work right now.

The various Rogue Squadron games.

[kainemaxwell]

Didn't they do Red Faction too?

[Drexel923]

Didn't they do Red Faction too?

Nope, that would be Volition.

[whoisKeel]

wow, its sad to lose a 3rd party for nintendo...

on the other hand i didn't like the last rogue squadron, and i have the 2nd one for gamecube and i never played it that much

[crashdummycow01]

to me it seems as thought nintendo's paddle is sinking to the bottom of shit creek

[poe]

Oh yeah. End of Nintendo. Losing an unimpressive 3rd party developer who only released, maybe, 2 games in the US in the last 5 years, both of them based off Star Wars. Granted, Silicon Knights was a more prominent developer, but neither company was producing titles to the extent of companies like Capcom or Sega. Now if one of THOSE pulls out, then Nintendo should worry.

[optic_85]

Ya' know i dont like the gamecube that much, but i wish nintendo the best of luck! I really hope they surrvive this slump, pull through and come out with a massivly popular system. I really dont want them to go out of buisness or start just making games. I mean, how wrong would it be to play MARIO on a PSX?!...I dont even want to think about that.....

[Drexel923]

Oh yeah. End of Nintendo. Losing an unimpressive 3rd party developer who only released, maybe, 2 games in the US in the last 5 years, both of them based off Star Wars. Granted, Silicon Knights was a more prominent developer, but neither company was producing titles to the extent of companies like Capcom or Sega. Now if one of THOSE pulls out, then Nintendo should worry.

Actually they were 2nd party along with Silicon Knights. Usually theres a problem when your second party developers are jumping ship. Also since F5 games actually sell and most people enjoy them I'd say its a pretty big loss...but its all personal preference I suppose. They also were a big part of the development of the cube as far as audio goes and they made a huge improvement in being able to compress video better. I wouldn't call that unimpressive. Sure it would be a bigger loss if huge 3rd parties jumped ship, but Sega already pulled their sports lineup, Acclaim left a while ago (yeah I know acclaim isn't great, but they still sell some games), and now losing two of three larger 2nd parties (retro being the other thats still around). Thats not counting Rare (who really hasn't helped the xbox much) and a couple more 3rd party pullings I can't remember. I've always believed it wouldn't matter if a couple companies stopped making games for Nintendo and that they would be able to survive, even on their own titles if they had to, but with this trend speeding up and growing I am starting to get worried.

EDIT: I also wanted to add to fact that a lot of 3rd parties (even large ones) have been either cancelling cube games or ending exclusitivity deals (killer 7, viewtiful joe). I'm not saying this the definite end of Nintendo, all I was trying to say is that I'm worried. I'm not the kind of person who jumps the gun and acts all ridiculous like most of these "End of Nintendo" posts on different boards, so I hope I'm not coming off like that.

[Ed Oscuro]

Odd to say second party, it's the right term (I suppose) but never gets used!

Anyhow, Factor 5 did a GameBoy version of Contra III titled "Contra: The Alien Wars" (same as the regular title but without the numeral) that was pretty good, I thought. Though the flamethrower horribly unbalanced the game to my advantage in top-down levels >)

[Daniel Thomas]

This is really bad news, but I think Nintendo brought it on themselves. Factor 5 has been doing nothing but Star Wars games for years, and the whole bit is just getting old.

Factor 5 is, and always has been, better than this. I remember the terrific Turrican conversions on the Genesis and Super NES, as well as that Contra 3 port on the Gameboy. They should be pulling out something better than - yawn - Star Wars. Maybe that's just me.

I wouldn't say Gamecube is finished, since both Nintendo and Microsoft are so far behind Sony. But I would suspect that Nintendo's next console could be their last. They just don't have much to offer, really. They should follow Sega's lead and focus on software; by now, the differences in console hardware are so insignificant that it just doesn't matter anymore.

However, Nintendo should keep the Gameboy, but I'm a GBA fan; competition may eventually change that, too.

I miss the 16-bit wars.

[YoshiM]

Gamespot has a more in depth new post (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/04/14/news_6093544.html).

Basically they have "never been a 2nd party developer", even though they seem to have only made console games on Nintendo hardware (as far as I know). They have also dropped development on all current generation hardware, not just Cube. They have moved onto next generation hardware.


Okay, the Cube has been around for only 2 1/2 or so years. The company that knows the Cube inside and out and was able to make a pretty kick ass game in mere MONTHS around the Cube's launch time is focusing on next gen. I'm sorry but this sort of mentality scares the crap outta me in regards to electronic entertainment. Isn't it a little, uh, EARLY to jump the game here, Factor 5? Sony believes their PS2 can last 7 or more years. Microsoft is banking on about 5. The developers working on those platforms seem to think the same. Does Factor 5 have some magic crystal ball that sees the future? It's baffling.

I don't want to think that a shroud of doom will cover the Cube, but the evidence is hard to ignore. Nintendo will go on, no doubt about that but what about the future of the Cube? IGN had a short interview with Iwata ,located here, (http://cube.ign.com/articles/506/506064p1.html) where he points out that they are working on the "GCNext" that will be "easier to develop games for" (where have we heard THAT before :roll: )and Nintendo is "discussing not about state-of-the-art technology for enhancing processing power [but] what should be done to entertain people in a new way." No real mention about the current gen other than Nintendo's profitablility has suffered due to increased competition.

With two companies no longer doing exclusive work for the Cube, it's hard to look at the Cube's software future in a positive light. Except if you only play Nintendo-made games. I wonder how the rest of the industry will respond.

[Daniel Thomas]

Well, as I understand it, the next wave of consoles are set to appear in 2005. Nintendo will likely be jumping the gun and release their console first, and Sony could hold out till 2006. Given the 1-2 year development time for games these games, it makes sense to me.

Still, you're right. It still seems too soon to start talking about the next wave. The games don't quite look so outdated yet.

[lendelin]

Oh yeah. End of Nintendo. Losing an unimpressive 3rd party developer who only released, maybe, 2 games in the US in the last 5 years, both of them based off Star Wars. Granted, Silicon Knights was a more prominent developer, but neither company was producing titles to the extent of companies like Capcom or Sega. Now if one of THOSE pulls out, then Nintendo should worry.

Sure it would be a bigger loss if huge 3rd parties jumped ship, but Sega already pulled their sports lineup, Acclaim left a while ago (yeah I know acclaim isn't great, but they still sell some games), and now losing two of three larger 2nd parties (retro being the other thats still around). Thats not counting Rare (who really hasn't helped the xbox much) and a couple more 3rd party pullings I can't remember. I've always believed it wouldn't matter if a couple companies stopped making games for Nintendo and that they would be able to survive, even on their own titles if they had to, but with this trend speeding up and growing I am starting to get worried.


You're absolutely right, Drexel, thanks for making the point. It's not just Silicon Knights and Factor 5, the trend started a year ago, GC games overall don't sell as well in the US, and Ns lamentations about well-selling splashy new technology software is troubling and sad. (like graphics would determine quality, furthermore, it labels the majority of gamers as dumb)

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to observe the trend. Just count the games in the review and preview sections of magazines which say "PS2 and Xbox," and then count how often multiplatform games are also released on the GC. The PS2 get their exclusives almost automatically as the most established system, MS has the finances to secure them, and N is struggling to get them.

It's still two years to go for this gen of consoles, but it's pretty clear that the big looser is the GC, and the new kid in town, the XBox, makes some ground to shorten the distance to the PS2. The Xbox improved it's image dramatically with good games even among the hardcore crowd, with Xbox exclusives like Star wars KOTOR, Ninja Gaiden, Crimson Skies and others. MS even managed to bridge the gap between PC RPGs and console RPGs.

if you're not EA, smaller developers have to calculate carefully, and if medium size developers are hesitant to publish for a system, it's a bad sign. Mix that with Ns pittiful PR strategies recently, we might have have a two-and-a-half console system set-up for the next console generation.

This doesn't say anything about the financial situation of N, there is just not enough information out there to evaluate it. I suspect that the company is still very healthy thanks to the monopoly in the handheld market.

Let's face it, Mario is slowly getting replaced by Jak and Ratchet. Mario will be only safed if Jak joins him on a N console which might do better the next time.

[Predatorxs]

Factor 5 = Super Turrican 1 and 2!! ahhhhhhh very sweet games, and way better then the Genesis IMO..

Super turrican just felt like a super tight game, with it's "amazing sound track!" some parts of the game where alittle easy.. but it will always be in my top 10 snes games yeeeeeehaaaaaaa ;)

the Music was the best!!.... i could be very wrong but didn't factor 5 have something to do with metroid prime, i know retro studio's where the main company behind it for nintendo.. (i'll get back to you on that one factor 5 / Metroid prime?)

i played a GC game a few weeks back and the facter 5 logo was on the beginning of the game and i'm sure it wasn't anything to do with any of the starwars games on the GC..

I'll have a quick scan through my GC games later on!

[swlovinist]

You know, Nintendo has for the most part been at the helm of their last two systems with not much third party support. Only Nintendo can get away with this because *cough* cough* *Microsoft* is truly facing the fact right now that their system has only a few exclusive games to hold people over.........sure the companies are probably moving on to make games for other systems, but it does not really hurt Nintendo. Like the N64, they will support their system for as long as they need to milk it, making a gem title here and there. The more I think about it, the Gamecube has the best ratio of quality games by far.........and the best exclusives. Nintendo is far from their last live.....after all they may not be doing so hot here, but overseas.....they are cookin!

[Ed Oscuro]

Mario will be only safed if Jak joins him on a N console which might do better the next time.
I am certainly not about to claim that Drexel is "right." It's true that many things could happen from here on out, but it's also apparent that you guys don't really understand the deal behind Nintendo's strategy/technology lament.

Developing ever more sophisticated games and what's more developing them for brand new (i.e. unfamiliar, with primitive/immature libraries) systems is actually not as good a bet as you might think. We're all familiar with the difference of release titles vs. late titles...and take a look at how the performance of Panzer Dragoon games steadily increased (along with the looks of the game) on the Saturn. Not bad stuff!

Now how many of you liked Metroid: Zero Mission? (It was okay.) I bought it for $30 - amazing! Nintendo obviously wants to make games affordable again like they were in the days of the Famicom Disk System but without cutting profits like the FDS did (partially a piracy issue but also due to development costs, cost of white/blue FDS media for development, low final price of the games). Nintendo also realizes that you don't have to have a 3D viewpoint to have a good game, and who among us wants to see 2D viewpoints die out? None of us. Whether it's on the GC (Four Swords and the new Pac-Man - neither perfect but they're a start) or the system's handhelds Nintendo seems to want to help this trend. However, if they decide to go and create a new console...well...

On the other hand Microsoft is taking an alternative strategy in seeing about setting up a framework for developers - no longer will programmers need to burn the midnight oil developing features for map editors that the mapmakers will never use, or redeveloping special effects that somebody else in the team made but never documented...there's good in that approach as well.

Of course we understand what Sony's approach is as they're waging a war on two fronts - an apparently successful one in projecting the PlayStation as an immortal format (possibly the information that a backwards compatible PS3 will cost $800 was intended to kick the folks at Sony into high gear?), and a very important fight against quality and ease of development issues which they might win big on with the PS3 and PSP.

[YoshiM]

You know, Nintendo has for the most part been at the helm of their last two systems with not much third party support. Only Nintendo can get away with this because *cough* cough* *Microsoft* is truly facing the fact right now that their system has only a few exclusive games to hold people over
Okay, do you mean Microsoft is facing the fact that their system only has a few exclusive games or do you mean Nintendo?

In my observation, Microsoft is in a very interesting position. Even though the Xbox doesn't seem to have as many exclusives as the Cube they do get their fair share of multiplatform titles. As the Xbox is the most powerful out of the three, these titles are typically better looking, sounding and overall better playing (lack of slowdown, frames per second, etc.) than the others. So people will buy whichever platform version the game plays best if they have multiple consoles. This is pretty much why Xbox has risen in popularity, which is odd because it's usually the exclusives that sell systems and not the other way around.



.........sure the companies are probably moving on to make games for other systems, but it does not really hurt Nintendo. Like the N64, they will support their system for as long as they need to milk it, making a gem title here and there.

Well, it seems as though Nintendo is ALSO looking at next generation with more than a passing glance. No hard evidence but they seem to be wrapped up on the GCNext (or whatever it's called) and the DS. Even with the N64 they still had the third parties that seem to have milked the N64 more than Nintendo did and no one was really "jumping ship" or "working on next gen hardware" until maybe a year before the death of the N64/rise of the Cube. Time and Nintendo's attitude will tell all come E3.



The more I think about it, the Gamecube has the best ratio of quality games by far.........and the best exclusives. Nintendo is far from their last live.....after all they may not be doing so hot here, but overseas.....they are cookin!

As for the best exclusives: totally in the eye of the beholder. Personally I enjoy the Xbox more not just because of the exclusives I play regularly (like Project Gotham Racing 2, Ninja Gaiden, Top Spin, Links) but because of the better versions of the multiplatform games (like Beyond Good and Evil, Fifa 2004, Armed and Dangerous, the Cabella hunting games). But then again that's me. :D

As for being hot overseas: that is good for them. But if I can't play those good games (language barrier and other whatnot) their overseas popularity means nothing to me.

It's going to be an interesting E3.

[Ed Oscuro]

One of Microsoft's problems (would like to say their only problem but...) is that Clippy has been retired and Bob never was a character ;)

GameSpy tells me that games like Onimusha helped define the PS2, and if you ask me even Nintendo's pitiful Waluigi character is hanging in there whereas Blinx seems dead.

[swlovinist]

With the above mentioned things, we could point the finger(which I did in frustration) at all three companines making consoles and pick them apart for different reasons and what they seem to fail at. I think all three are going to seriously reconsider and heavily evaluate their next move...I believe this next console war could take either Nintendo or Microsoft out of the console making picture if thier new system fails. It is true that Nintendo is not the cash cow that Microsoft is, but I do know that the Microsoft shareholders are not very happy with the lack of expcetations the Xbox has been for the company. It is truly the only part of their company that is struggling. Microsoft has failed to impress me from day one. I didnt believe the hype, and I still dont. I own one, and about 20 games. To me other than Halo and KOTR, the system has not promised what I bought it for. It has failed to get me to think it is something other than a different packaged pc, which I am SO a console player in terms of gameplay and graphics. The Cube and PS2 have succeeded in this department, with offering many exclusives that I feel are original and not found anywhere else. What is going to change my mind? Games. We live in a sea of half ass baked ideas and I am sick of it. This last year(and this spring for example), sales are down and most of it is because there isnt much out there to buy that is truly innovative. I think that people are sick of these average games that are either easy to beat, glitchy, or have zero replay value. I find that more and more people are realizing that some older games are just more fun to play and that the new ones are not living up to the hype. Not true for everyone, but more people are looking past the graphics and seeing if the game is fun to play before they are buying....or snatching up the game on the clearance bin!

[ManekiNeko]

See, here's my problem with Microsoft's so-called "success" in the video game business. How can they seriously be considered more successful than Nintendo when they're selling their consoles at a loss? It's not just about the number of units sold, but about the profit you've made from them. Just because Microsoft has the resources to absorb any losses they incur does NOT mean they're doing better than Nintendo.

Let me better illustrate this for you. If I sold Ferraris for the same price as the Ford Probes they're selling at the dealership across the road, that doesn't make me successful... it makes me a moron with a lot of money to burn.

JR

[YoshiM]

See, here's my problem with Microsoft's so-called "success" in the video game business. How can they seriously be considered more successful than Nintendo when they're selling their consoles at a loss? It's not just about the number of units sold, but about the profit you've made from them. Just because Microsoft has the resources to absorb any losses they incur does NOT mean they're doing better than Nintendo.

Let me better illustrate this for you. If I sold Ferraris for the same price as the Ford Probes they're selling at the dealership across the road, that doesn't make me successful... it makes me a moron with a lot of money to burn.

JR

Can't really use the concept of cars to compare video games. A car you get the whole enchilada and will do what it's supposed to do as long as you put in fuel. Fuel aside, it's a complete package. When you buy a game system you need software. Sure you can get the system and plug it in, but it just sits there and doesn't do what it's supposed to do: play games. Basically one big whirring electric paperweight.

As for success, I believe this is more of a perceived success. Gamers generally don't care about the bottom line, they just want the games. If a system has a lot of games-it's generally perceived as being successful. If it wasn't successful, then why are all these games coming out for it? Add to the fact that gamers these days do check out the gaming news and stuff like SK and Factor 5 either not exclusively supporting or not supporting the Cube sends up some red flags. If Nintendo is successful, why are these companies either not doing exclusive games for the Cube (in the case of both SK) or not supporting the cube at all (in the case of Factor 5 doing next gen development)?

It's all perception.

[Captain Wrong]

See, here's my problem with Microsoft's so-called "success" in the video game business. How can they seriously be considered more successful than Nintendo when they're selling their consoles at a loss? It's not just about the number of units sold, but about the profit you've made from them. Just because Microsoft has the resources to absorb any losses they incur does NOT mean they're doing better than Nintendo.

Let me better illustrate this for you. If I sold Ferraris for the same price as the Ford Probes they're selling at the dealership across the road, that doesn't make me successful... it makes me a moron with a lot of money to burn.

JR

It all depends on what yardstick you're using for measuring success. If you're talking about who is making profit on consoles, then yeah, you gotta give it to Nintendo. However, I can't think of a single instance when all was said and done people gauged a console's "success" by how much money the company made from the console. Since the videogame industry operates on a "razors and blades" type business model (sell the razors/consoles cheap to make your money on the blades/games) companies generally expect to lose money on the console and make it on selling the games and by that standard, MS has the edge.

The car analogy doesn't work because, as YoshiM said, you're not going back to the dealer to buy more for the car after it rolls off the lot.