Obnoxious, Evil Chinese Pirate on eBay

[Epicenter]

I found this auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8101136738), in Hong Kong, on eBay. It's for a clearly-pirate Famicom system .. note the jacks in the back, the way the controllers are hardwired INSIDE the system, and how he wants *$62* to ship it to the States when the actual cost for that would be under $20. More like $13. Not only this, but it's a general rule that if you buy it in Hong Kong, odds are 15:1 it's not official.

So I contact this cockmaster and ask him quite politely, if he is making these machines, what's with the exorbitant shipping fees, and if he WAS making them, if he'd answer some questions about pirate hardware production. Useful info for my site's pirate section. Reasonable requests, I thought.

The answer I got was:
"Are you threatening me or something? I think I will report you to ebay as a SPAM, becasue I don't understand what you said. - cy"

Oh, that makes sense. "I don't understand you, so I'll report you."

Well guess what fuckface, you're reported for fraud and your auctions will magically jump up to ridiculous amounts, courtesy of a mysterious new eBay account that was just registered, should you not decide to be more civil than this. :evil:

Are there any decent merchants in China? Any at all? (Don't even get me started on ToToTek ..) :P

[jonjandran]

It looks just like my Famicom.

And my controllers are hardwired also. :hmm:

And he says the jacks in the back are because it's "custom a/v"

I really don't see it as a pirate Famicom.

[Epicenter]

Real Famicoms have jacks on them for controllers .. 2 normal, 1 lightgun. They are not hardwired. I wouldn't doubt yours is pirate too, there is no system pirated more. :P As for the 'custom AV', this is the kind of ghetto design crappy HK pirates are known for. And his extreme hostility in the face of someone being civil is a CLEAR sign he is a pirater-- they always get VERY defensive and VERY suspicious when anyone knows what they are up to.

[jonjandran]

Woo Hoo , I have a Pirated Console !!!!!!!!!!! :D

My first one. I'm so proud . LOL

[Epicenter]

CLASSIC way to tell:

Open it up, and check the board.

REAL: One big PCB with lots of properly soldered, big chips.
FAKE: 1-3 small boards with shoddily soldered ribbon cable (gray usually), one central chip (NES-on-a-Chip) held in place with a blob of black epoxy.

The design I just described is very common in pirate famicoms as it's cheap as hell. But it's also easy to break as the ribbon cables are shoddily soldered to the parts.. my friend Jose's "plasticom" (Famicom clone w/ NO metal) uses that.

Plasticom:
http://www.epicgaming.net/pirate_nes_hw/plasticom_disassembly.php

[jonjandran]

I'm confused.

Every one that is sold on Ebay as a Famicom has hardwired controllers, and one controller port on the front.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8100340978&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=3090718321&rd=1

[Epicenter]

I could be wrong, but I recall rather distinctly that there are ports on standard machines. But there are so many pirates it gets hard to distinguish after awhile. At any rate, I just have a wierd 'pirate sense' and this machine strikes me pretty hard.

PIRATE SENSE TINGLING!! :eek 2:

[video_game_addict]

I had an original Famicom and it looked just like the one you're calling a fake. Hardwired controllers and all. Only port up front was for the db15 zapper. The design of the famicom is even molded to hold the controllers when not in use. I've never seen a Nintendo Famicom with detachable controllers. The later models maybe and the clones typically do, but not the Famicom.

[crashdummycow01]

lmao.. and u got pissed at him for no reason lmao.... when u asked if they were pirate, he prolly thought u were accusing him and just got defensive.. o well

[Epicenter]

That's a big part of why I am suspicious. It looks ghetto, and ghetto + HK = Pirate. ;) He reacted in a RIDICULOUSLY hostile fashion. Pirates ALWAYS do that. Or they recoil in terror and give you whatever you want to make you shut up. A few times now, I bought pirate games (knew they were unofficial) to add to my collection .. paid $14 each. Then e-mailed the seller, feigning rage, demanding $7 back plus shipping or I blow open his scheme and tell all related Software companies about it. ;) All 3 caved in and refunded my cash, so I had the games for $7. Then I sold them later to EB Games for $15. ;D

God, I'm a bastard .. LOL

[davidleeroth]

That looks like a legit Famicom to me. I have a legit one and it has hardwired controllers.
I have pirate ones, too, one with exactly same box but" Nintendo" has been omitted from the corner of the box.

I see no signs of pirate console here and only a complete fool would put a label "Family Computer Nintendo" on their pirate console. Also, he might have gotten your message wrong as english isn't so well understood in the east (which he has proven in his reply).

[PhoeniX]

I just returned from Hong Kong where I scoured the town for console games, Famicoms are hard to find (real or pirated) almost as a rule the pirated famicom consoles I came accross look nothing like an actual famicom. Moreover, the "pirates" themselves where all very nice whether they were hawking the current console cd "backups" or even the GameBoy advance games none tried to misrepresent thier products. In Hong Kong a multitude of console game related stuff is readilly available, the people who sell the stuff (barring perhaps the people on the street e.g. markets) are very knowlegable. Top on the list of things a wanted to bring back was an original Famicom, everyone I talked to said they could easily get me a pirated one and many even tracked down and provided quotes on legitimate ones. If you can speak the language finding games--real ones-- in Hong Kong isn't much trouble. Invariably the patrons let you examine the products. I was allowed to open up an old Japanese Atari console to see if it was fake (looking for tell tale symptoms). Bootlegs do come a lot from Hong Kong (especially from the famicom era) but people are removing a major comodity exchange of good videogame stuff to be unreasonably wary of stuff from Hong Kong. E-bay as a whole is much more repleat with pirates and bad sellers than what I experianced in the whole of Hong Kong. Buyers, all buyers would be wise to remember the addage caveat emptor (buyer beware) but eroneously assuming that a person who is gouging you is also providing an illigitimate product is unwise, after all what does one expect ITS EBAY, most things are overpriced--especially the shipping.

[rbudrick]

Fact#1: Original Famicoms have hardwired controllers. Peripherals are used through a 15-pin port on the front. I did that same AV mod to mine.

Fact#2: The revised AV version of the Famicom has ports much tlike the American/PAL versions (this model looks like an American top loader).

Fact#3: The Famicom in that auction is 100% legitimate. The guy kinda had a right to be mad at you. I would apologize.


-Rob

EDIT: Oh, and that price for shipping is because the unit is at $49. A boxed, complete, modded Famicom generally fetches about $110 to $120 shipped, so that is a pretty standard price....just a sneaky way of pricing it hoping someone bids by accident w/o looking at shipping.

[Daria]

This topic had me laughing my ass off... poor guy. You know it always helps to inform yourself about a product before going off and reporting an innocent seller. :P
________
MFLB PRICE (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

[esquire]

This topic had me laughing my ass off... poor guy. You know it always helps to inform yourself about a product before going off and reporting an innocent seller. :P

You know the old saying, "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[Naiera]

The only thing wrong about this guy is his ridiculous shipping prices. He wants $42 to ship a Neo Geo controller by AIRMAIL. Walk on over to, say, hit-japan, and they'll charge you $30 for EMS shipping.

I don't like the guy. I've seen his feedback go from next to nothing to 100 in a very short while. It's sad that people actually pay these outrageous shipping fees.

And to answer something else mentioned in this thread: I've bought LOADS of stuff from Hong Kong sellers. All of these games were legit. Give credit where it's due, there ARE legit "Chinese" eBayers. There are even decent HK sellers who don't f*ck you in the *ss on shipping.

[Aussie2B]

Haha, practically the one and only Hong Kong eBay seller who doesn't sell bootlegs, and you try to get him banned from eBay. Just shows how the innocent guys get picked on (like when my auction for a Super Famicom converter was taken down), while the big shot pirates make a fortune selling thousands of bootlegs at all times with no one hindering their "business".

[sisko]

[quote="rbudrick"}Fact#3: The Famicom in that auction is 100% legitimate. The guy kinda had a right to be mad at you. I would apologize.
[/quote]

I agree.

The only thing atypical about this famicom is that it has been modified for AV output (an RF jack should be where that rather poorly placed DIN jack is)

[Ed Oscuro]

Welcome to the club, Epicenter! Though for sure I've never gone after a seller for selling something I thought was fake; but there've been enough instances of myself being wrong about something here at the forums =P

[Epicenter]

It's a good idea to be suspicious about anything from HK, however. :P Some pirate Famicoms (a LOT of them) are near indistinguishable from the real deal untl you see the system malfunction, fall apart, or crack it open and look at the PCB(s). Others, you just need to FEEL them-- i.e. my friend Jose's Famiclone (Plasticom as I call it) which weighs about 1 oz. because it has no metal in it except the surface mount components. The wires were poorly soldered, there were broken off chunks of solder waiting to short the board, no heatsink on the boiling-hot voltage regulator .. et cetera.

I've got photos of it disassembled here:
http://69.93.226.156/host/epicgaming/pirate_nes_hw/plasticom_disassembly.php

I didn't really go off on the seller; I more wanted to hear a pirate's side of the story. I'm yet to find a pirate I can interview about the nonsense they put on the market.

My suspicions stem from that EVERYTHING I have bought from HK was pirate. This includes 3 GBA carts, my friend's Famiclone he got .. varying anime posters sold by a Chinese guy at a convention (mis-cropped, serial #s in the bottom corner in the same style used by famicom pirates) .. et cetera. And corrupt business is nothing unusual in China either either, apparently. Shipping scams and other such nonsense are extremely common in my experience. People from HK are always trying to rip others off, it seems. I'm not being racist, this is an economic observance. :P

Given that, I'm sure ya see where I am coming from.

[Epicenter]

Haha, practically the one and only Hong Kong eBay seller who doesn't sell bootlegs, and you try to get him banned from eBay. Just shows how the innocent guys get picked on (like when my auction for a Super Famicom converter was taken down), while the big shot pirates make a fortune selling thousands of bootlegs at all times with no one hindering their "business".

No, I didn't try to get him banned. I asked if he was a pirate and if so, I wanted to ask him some questions about machine production, as I am building a BIG pirate section on Epic Gaming. He misinterpreted me horribly and turned me into some kind of threatening bastard. :P Despite that he pissed me off, I've decided not to report him, since I did more research and the machine does look like it could just be a fubar'ed mod job on a real machine. I don't appreciate his EXTREME rudeness though when I just asked him for info. :P

[Bratwurst]

I've decided not to report him, since I did more research..

Craving Battlezone.. craving Battlezone.. sweet sweet Battlezone.. bah.

When will you / where did you post your notes on overclocking the NES?

[Epicenter]

As soon as they're really 'ready'. I want to get some decent photos and videos before I go and post the whole thing but I'm trying to devote my time to perfecting my MegaDrive/Genesis OC'ed prototype. :) I'll be on the NES/SNES soon enough though.

Being out of classes for the summer will help my free time a LOT. Expect more good things in the future ^.^ I'm glad you like this stuff!

[anagrama]

I've decided not to report him

Congratulations on deciding not to report a legitimate seller offering legitimate goods. It must have taken a long time to ponder that one...

[Epicenter]

I've decided not to report him

Congratulations on deciding not to report a legitimate seller offering legitimate goods. It must have taken a long time to ponder that one...

Let's not be snotty. I was only considering reporting him, not because of my suspicion of piracy, but because of his reaction when I asked him if he could answer some questions about hardware pirating process in general.

REPEAT. I DID NOT THREATEN THIS GUY, I ASKED HIM IF HE MADE THE MACHINE AND IF SO, IF HE WOULD ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCESS FOR THE PIRACY SECTION ON MY SITE. I WAS ANGERED BY HIS REACTION TO REPORT ME AS A SPAMMER *BECAUSE HE COULDN'T READ MY ENGLISH PROPERLY*, WHICH IS A SEVERE ABSURDITY.

Erhem. There ya go. :P

[sniperCCJVQ]

Anyone needs Famicom multicart ?

I have two for sale.

[punkoffgirl]

And corrupt business is nothing unusual in China either either, apparently. Shipping scams and other such nonsense are extremely common in my experience. People from HK are always trying to rip others off, it seems. I'm not being racist, this is an economic observance.


A few times now, I bought pirate games (knew they were unofficial) to add to my collection .. paid $14 each. Then e-mailed the seller, feigning rage, demanding $7 back plus shipping or I blow open his scheme and tell all related Software companies about it. All 3 caved in and refunded my cash, so I had the games for $7. Then I sold them later to EB Games for $15.

[davidleeroth]

I love this thread. Keep it coming.

[Ed Oscuro]

I've got photos of it disassembled here:
http://69.93.226.156/host/epicgaming/pirate_nes_hw/plasticom_disassembly.php
Now something to remember about the "pirates" is that many of them are selling legal products. We just call them "pirates" because we're Nintendo fanboys and believe everything they tell us.

Some of them, like the one you posted here, look far too much like the real thing.

Now when you say that this is a "bad business practice," I'd say you should go look at the cereal foods isle of your supermarket! Every day I come across stuff from little companies trying to look like official Kellogg's products. Since we're Americans, we should know better than to pull stuff like that, right? Nah.

In any case, the unit you posted looks very much unlike a real Famicom. The unit in the auction looks genuine, has the Nintendo logo, and the high shipping indicates to me that it's got metal parts inside (though he's overcharging a good deal, no doubt about it ;P )

[Cmosfm]

LOL

I have to say this topic had me rolling the entire time I read it.

Yes, just confirming again that this is a real & legit famicom system, just altered for AV output....which is a MAJOR + for a US buyer of this system.

So yeah, Daria summed it up right. Do some research before blaming a seller of a fake item and complaining about it here on DP.

[esquire]

I can just imagine somewhere out there is a post in another forum in Chinese that reads:

"Obnoxious, Evil American Bidder on Ebay"

LOL

[sisko]

I can just imagine somewhere out there is a post in another forum in Chinese that reads:

"Obnoxious, Evil American Bidder on Ebay"

LOL

LOL LOL

[Epicenter]

I don't have a problem with pirates NOT because they lose companies money. Far from it. (Besides, pirates generally thrive in locations where a lot of the real stuff is never imported.) I have a problem with that the equipment is often inferior and has blatant lies on it to make the customer think they are getting something they are not.

Example:

1. A box flagrantly screaming SEGA MEGADRIVE MODEL 2 and pointing out ALL OVER the back that there is a CD edge connector to hook up a Mega CD to and play CD-ROM based games. Lie. It's really a famicom with a giant hole where the connector would be. So people will buy this, and then buy MD/MCD games, and then realize, "Oh shit, I just got completely and utterly ripped off." :P

2. A game labelled SUPER MARIO 4. Someone misinformed may think there WAS A new Mario title out and buy this .. then realize, nope, someone hacked Tiny Toons, adding a Mario sprite here and there. Again, ripped off.

3. What looks like a real Famicom that plays like a real Famicom and has severe audio and video glitches, like the Plasticom (SY-700) I mentioned earlier.

[Epicenter]

* I ADMIT THAT I WAS WRONG. So you can stop bashing me for chrissakes. *

I don't have a problem with pirates because they lose companies money. Far from it. (Besides, pirates generally thrive in locations where a lot of the real stuff is never imported.) I have a problem with that the equipment is often inferior and has blatant lies on it to make the customer think they are getting something they are not.

Example:

1. A box flagrantly screaming SEGA MEGADRIVE MODEL 2 and pointing out ALL OVER the back that there is a CD edge connector to hook up a Mega CD to and play CD-ROM based games. Lie. It's really a famicom with a giant hole where the connector would be. So people will buy this, and then buy MD/MCD games, and then realize, "Oh shit, I just got completely and utterly ripped off." :P

2. A game labelled SUPER MARIO 4. Someone misinformed may think there WAS A new Mario title out and buy this .. then realize, nope, someone hacked Tiny Toons, adding a Mario sprite here and there. Again, ripped off.

3. What looks like a real Famicom that plays like a real Famicom and has severe audio and video glitches, like the Plasticom (SY-700) I mentioned earlier.

[Daria]

I don't know about the obviously fake games though. Like Super Mario 4. That's just kind of funny and the buyer should be better informed.
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Berserker]

don't worry, the sheer comedic value of this thread far outweighs any potential wrongdoing on your part Epicenter. Step back for a moment, acknowledge this, and move on... 8-)

[Captain Wrong]

And corrupt business is nothing unusual in China either either, apparently. Shipping scams and other such nonsense are extremely common in my experience. People from HK are always trying to rip others off, it seems. I'm not being racist, this is an economic observance.


A few times now, I bought pirate games (knew they were unofficial) to add to my collection .. paid $14 each. Then e-mailed the seller, feigning rage, demanding $7 back plus shipping or I blow open his scheme and tell all related Software companies about it. All 3 caved in and refunded my cash, so I had the games for $7. Then I sold them later to EB Games for $15.

zing!

[Charlie]

Ah, how I missed this board. Epicenter, no need to get defensive. In fact, I will offer you $0.25 Canadian for every innocent ebay seller that you groundlessly attack, chest puffed out, and then come here to brag about.

Offer not valid Mon-Sun, if you can read this you don't need eyeglasses.

[Cmosfm]

2. A game labelled SUPER MARIO 4. Someone misinformed may think there WAS A new Mario title out and buy this .. then realize, nope, someone hacked Tiny Toons, adding a Mario sprite here and there. Again, ripped off.


Thing is here...anyone that actually buys a Mario 4 thinking it is a new NES game probably...

1. doesn't know what a "pirate" is, and probably thinks its real

2. Too dumb to recognize that it is indeed, a hack of Tiny Toons

3. Too dumb to care.

He would probably tell all his friends about it, and when they try to tell him the truth and even convince him with solid proof that it is a hack...he will probably still believe it is a new Mario game.

So is he getting ripped off? not in his eyes! He got a new mario game...and when he's done with it he'll list it on eBay for 500.00 because it's a RARE NEVER RELEASED NEW MARIO 4 GAME!

Yep, the world is full of morons....taking advantage of them is wrong and I'm not backing up piraters, but still, maybe if they'd grab some common sense they'll learn to spot these things!

Ever met someone who bought a CD at the flea market from one of those chinese guys with the faded covers and such....and even after they opened it, they still believed it was a real cd just like you buy out of the store? I have......more than once.....I don't feel sorry for those ignorant people.

[TheRedEye]

Um, without actually dredging through this thread...everything in that auction is legit, including the carts.

[Epicenter]

ENOUGH. **LET THE TOPIC DIE**.

[portnoyd]

Can somebody give Epicenter a pity lock? Come on, be nice.

dave

[rbudrick]

It's ok dude, everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has a right to be semi-suspicious of HK dealers. I encourage you to continue to try to get interviews...only do them with real pirates, he hheh


Now,


Now when you say that this is a "bad business practice," I'd say you should go look at the cereal foods isle of your supermarket! Every day I come across stuff from little companies trying to look like official Kellogg's products. Since we're Americans, we should know better than to pull stuff like that, right? Nah.

This isn't a good analogy. These "generic" brands are usually licensed by the real companies (Kellogs, Post, General Mills) to generic product distributors. The distributors then sell the stores the cereal with their name/label on them.

The big brands make good royalties/licensing fees off of this, as I understand it.

So, since pirate games aren't licensed, that doesn't work. :-)

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

Now when you say that this is a "bad business practice," I'd say you should go look at the cereal foods isle of your supermarket! Every day I come across stuff from little companies trying to look like official Kellogg's products. Since we're Americans, we should know better than to pull stuff like that, right? Nah.

This isn't a good analogy. These "generic" brands are usually licensed by the real companies (Kellogs, Post, General Mills) to generic product distributors. The distributors then sell the stores the cereal with their name/label on them.
This is EXACTLY why it's a good analogy. I work at a place called Cereal City, USA, and I can easily field a dozen questions a day about the cereal business and things.

Kellogg's DOES NOT make cereal for no-name brands. It stings to find out how many people think that. Kellogg's only licenses its characters for use on items like apparel, lunchboxes, toys and the like, and even then there are strict reasons.

The little companies have apparently had great success in convincing a large number of people that their sawdust is the real thing, that they get better value, etc. This is why the work of Kellogg's trademark attorneys never ends.

The little guys in China making Famicom-compatible machines ARE NOT necessarily pirates. They are "pirates" only if they are ripping off official Nintendo designs, the name, or are using copyrighted/patented materials.

Let's consider a very obscure machine called the Pencil ][, from Hanimex. A Colecovision adapter was available for it. Does that automatically make Hanimex (a company that's still around) pirates? Nope. They COULD have been pirating Coleco's intellectual property in copyrights or trademarks, but this is not a certain deal. Yet Coleco probably should have sent a letter warning Hanimex against utilizing trademarks. It goes to show that the clone business is an uncertain (but not always illegal or shadowy) business.