<RANT> Sonic Team's Downward Slope

[Epicenter]

Sonic Team has been putting out a lot of mindless trash recently:

We all know about the glitchy Sonic Adventure and the fun-but-no-replay-value Sonic Advance 2 .. this rant will comprise mostly my venting about the 'games' (hahahaha!) since then.

Sonic Pinball Party - A bad pinball game with awful music. Sonic's not the ball this time around either. His only role in the game is a bunch of stolen art from other games slapped in as backgrounds and borders. Hell, Pokemon Pinball had more Pokemon in it than this does Sonic. And the ending looks like it was saved as a GIF with 16 colors-- it's dithered and contains random nuclear-pink and yellow pixels scattered everywhere.

Sonic Battle - A lame fighting game with a stupid 3D gimmick-- the level is a rocking giant polygon with sprites haphazardly attached. 3D looked better on the NES. The music again sucks, the sprites are jacked from the previous Advance titles, and it has NO replay value. I got sick of it after 3 minutes.

Sonic Advance 3 - Sonic Advance 2 with new levels that get as far from fun as possible while still classifying it as a game. More terrible music (this is a DISGRACE to their previous work.)

Sega Smash Pack - Sonic Spinball (which most people hated), and Golden Axe and Ecco 1 ported to the GBA and violated in the most wrong ways possible. Made slower by them doing a TERRIBLE job of porting it (actually, they got CodeFire to do it and slapped their name on it).

- Ecco has NO MUSIC. It's the Time Travel sound effect from the SEQUEL looped over and over. It's 6 seconds. I take it something went wrong with the porting and this had to be filler.
- Ecco is distorted and cannot swim diagnolly properly-- you can only move in 4 directions.
- Controls lag worse than the SMS/Game Gear version.
- Text screens are terribly warped and nearly unreadable. REALLY bad because the story in this game is great ..

I can't rip into Golden Axe because I haven't played the original. But it lagged, looked HORRIBLE at that resolution and wasn't even slightly fun.

Why you ask? To save time and effort for Sonic Heroes, the festival of shit that Sonic Team worked up to be the BEST GAME TO EVER HEARKEN BACK TO THOSE ON THE MEGADRIVE!!! .. TOTAL LIE. It's NOTHING like the old games, not fun at all.. the sound is a disgrace to Jun Senoue, the graphics are NOTHING NEAR what the NGC can produce. They promised in-game graphics just like those from the CG Video on Sonic Adventure 1 (nowhere close.) The voice acting is even WORSE and your 'team''s AI is horrific. They follow you like drones and get in the way.

If Sonic Team EVER pulls itself out of the gutter NOW I'd really be impressed.

</RANT>[/url]

[ManekiNeko]

Guess I can't argue with you about this. The only thing that really stood out in my mind about Sonic Advance 3 is that it's got more Tails butthole than in any other Sonic release. I can't say that's much of a selling point.

http://grblitz.overclocked.org/tailhole.gif

JR

[Epicenter]

I thought I was the only one to notice they hand-drew an asshole on Tails in the intro. But it WAS in Advance 1 and 2, I caught it looking at a spritesheet. It's just so FLAGRANT in here. And I bet that makes it past all the testing crews and into the final release (copy floating around the net appears to be a release candidate that failed ALL glitch tests and is STILL being released despite the ability to crouch-slide for 5 miles. wow.)

[Half Japanese]

At the risk of starting something unintentionally, I find Sonic Team to be highly overrated, save for PSO...wait...even that's a bit overrated.

[Jasoco]

Tails Butthole? I don't want to see that..

By the way, fix the image, I want to see that. ;)

x_x

I've never heard of the Pinball game.

I notice you didn't mention the new EyeToy game you were ranting about in the other thread.

[Epicenter]

Well yeah, that does suck too .. and I bet it had more work put into it than any of the games I listed above. :P But I thought it sucked enough in everyone's eyes that it did not need repeating.

[roxybaby]

Nights was absolutely amazing to play. I remember when the Saturn first came out I wanted it just to play that game. I think it's stood the test of time very well.

I don't like Sonic Adventure at all. The game isn't intuitive to me, and the constant motion makes me feel sick when I play it. Sonic 3D Blast also makes me want to puke from motion sickness. I guess I'm just old-fashioned, but I miss the 2-D Sonic games. Sure, Sonic and Knuckles wasn't really groundbreaking, but it was fun and hooking it up to Sonic 3 made a game that I'm still not sick of. And Sonic CD was amazing, but it seemed like that stream got totally abandoned.

I feel like the Sonic Team must have something great up their sleeves, but I don't know what they're waiting for.

[chrisbid]

sega in general has stagnated since the dreamcast days. i knew in the back of my mind that this would probably happen. But i have to admit im looking forward to the return of Puyo Puyo to an American Console. almost everything from sega has been a rehash. but since every company is guilty of this it isnt fair to single out sega or any particular team. UGA was the last company makeing exciting unique games, and now they are kaput.

[le geek]

Samba De Amigo is great, but maybe it's the exception that proves the rule?

[chrisbid]

so was chu chu rocket and the first edition of PSO on the Dreamcast. Since the DC died, they havent had much to offer that is new. The only game i can think of is Billy Hatcher, and i havent played that yet.

[Duncan]

so was chu chu rocket and the first edition of PSO on the Dreamcast. Since the DC died, they havent had much to offer that is new. The only game i can think of is Billy Hatcher, and i havent played that yet.

It's not bad, but it's kinda like a Sonic game (though slower) where you push around big eggs. Very much for the kiddies. Great music, though - reminds me of ST's groundbreaking work on the Genesis.

Under $30 bucks most places, though, if not lower. So it's not a massive investment if you're interested. :)

And yeah, the Sega Smash Pack was a total waste of my money - even at a measly $10 over the Christmas season. Each of those games, save for the rather hopeless Sonic Spinball, is much better when played on the Genesis (or a Nomad if you're lucky).

[Jasoco]

(or a Nomad if you're lucky). :D

<---- Lucky

[ManekiNeko]

Tails Butthole? I don't want to see that..

By the way, fix the image, I want to see that. ;)

http://grblitz.overclocked.org/post0304.htm

You'll find it here. I'm too lazy to set up an alternate host for the picture. It's a real shame that the Retrogaming Roundtable doesn't have the same file hosting capabilities as Atari Age's forums (hint, hint!).

JR

[sabre2922]

The Sega SATURN Days were truly the Golden Age for SONIC TEAM.
I remember the pure magic that was NIGHTS:into dreams I really believe that game to be thier crowning achievement and then thier incredible port of Sonic Jam even if they were just emulated Genesis games they somehow felt perfect with the Saturn pad.
Now as far as the DC days I did enjoy the Sonic Adventure games as did many others sure there not perfect and I cant stand tails myself O_O
That leads us to the current gen games
I was showing my son the Sonic Heroes Xbox Demo and after I watched him play it I tried it out myself I thought it was a good game not great and certainly not of the calibur of the Saturn days but a good solid game nonetheless anywho thats just my 2 cents worth. :D

[Jasoco]

I don't like Heroes. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

The only thing I want to see out of ST is a GBA port of the Mega Collection, then I'll be set. Nothing else.

[RCM]

I really have to disagree. First of all, don't judge Sonic Advance 3 until you've played through it. I really don't have much patience for people that talk shit on games that they haven't played or beaten (in some cases). I am assuming that you guys have not played (it doesn't come out till June). I am willing to bet at least half the people, if not all on this thread have not played SA3 yet. I actually dug Sonics portions of Adventure and Adventure 2. Everything else could have been tossed. I do feel that SOnics portions had some awesome moments though that rank up there with the best 3D platformers. As for Heros, it's not perfect but is very compelling. One of the better 3D platform titles around and i've played almost all, if not all of them. As for Sega on a whole, I do not believe that they have declined. Has anyone played through Panzer Dragoon Orta? Has anybody taken a drive in Outrun 2? Have you been stomped lately in VF4 Evolution? All awesome titles. There's more too. Too many to list. Sega isn't perfect, no developer of that scale is. For all you Sega Haters out there, give em a chance, it will be worth it. Don't judge a book till you've read, don't judge a game till you've played it. Nuff Said

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[chrisbid]

Panzer Dragoon Orta
Outrun 2
VF4 Evolution
All awesome titles.
THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

no argument, but they are all sequels. the original games stopped with the dreamcast. imho, original game should outnumber sequels and rehashes 2-1. This clearly isnt the case with sega, or the industry as a whole.

[13u1313a]

Sonic Heroes does suck, end of story as does every true 3D sonic game with the possible exception of adventure 1. Thought that PSO III CARD would be a new era for sonic team when i first heard about it until they threw in the same dated graphics engine and tried to pass it off as completely new, oh and the storyline.... you guessed it sucks. Maybe its time to start thinking about what abominations are coming out next?

-Sonic Spinball 3D
-PSO 4 C.A.R.D. Booster Expansion Pack
-Sonic Zeroes (oh look another team of crap characters no-one wants to use)
-Chao Dance Dance Fever

Dear God No..........

[ManekiNeko]

I really have to disagree. First of all, don't judge Sonic Advance 3 until you've played through it.

I've played it. It's weak. The end.

JR

P.S. This isn't RC Modeler, the poster formerly known as TheAveng, is it?

[charitycasegreg]

YES... SONIC IS A FAGGOT NOW. Waht happend to the good 'ol sonic with the spikes? Now he has green eyes and long hair? I used to get the comics up till issue 74 (about 4 years ago) thats when sonic changed. They used to be cool till they got all "mature". Plus yes, all these new characters are really gay. They also fucked robotnic up. Sonic adventure was fun but since then, sonic the hedgehog just isnt the same... R.I.P. old school sonic and friends. :(

[RCM]

I wish half the games that came out were originals. That shouldn't be a complaint about Sega alone. Fuck, even Treasure is rumored to finally be doing a sequel. As for the titles i listed, there were substantial gaps between them. That's not the case with every Sega title, but it is true of the 3 I listed. Outrun came out in the late 80's, this sequel (wasn't there another Outrun 2?) just was released, Panzer Dragoon Orta was released 4 or 5 years after Saga, and Vf4 and VfEvo (I know I listed Evo only) was released a couple years after Vf3.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[RCM]

I've played it. It's weak. The end.


ManekiNeko,

Did you play through the entire game or did you play a level?

I am not anyone you listed, check this out

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

I am nobody else

[Blackjax]

I thought they killed off robotnic?

[ManekiNeko]

I've played it. It's weak. The end.


ManekiNeko,

Did you play through the entire game or did you play a level?

So let me get this straight. You have to play through every single level of a game before you're entitled to an opinion about it? That rule applies no matter how long the game is, and no matter how utterly dreadful it is? I've got just one thing to say to that...

http://nnk.art.pl/endorfun/bullshit.jpg

JR

[dreamcaster]

YES... SONIC IS A FAGGOT NOW. Waht happend to the good 'ol sonic with the spikes? Now he has green eyes and long hair? I used to get the comics up till issue 74 (about 4 years ago) thats when sonic changed. They used to be cool till they got all "mature". Plus yes, all these new characters are really gay. They also fucked robotnic up. Sonic adventure was fun but since then, sonic the hedgehog just isnt the same... R.I.P. old school sonic and friends. :(

I think you could've expressed your distaste for Sonic without resorting to homophobic language.


Anyway, on topic: I haven't played much of Sonic Team's recent games, so I can't really comment. The most recent games of theirs I've played are Sonic Adventure 2 and Phantasy Star Online 1 + 2. I love SA2, whereas PSO just isn't my cup of tea. Though I think I'd enjoy it more if I could actually play it online. :roll:

Besides, if there's a software company I feel that's taken a bigger downhill slide, it would be Nintendo.

I'd take Sonic Adventure 2 over Super Mario Sunshine anyday.

And the same thing applies to handhelds. Sonic Advance 2 (I haven't played 3 yet) is an excellent original platformer. I'd rather shell out money for that, rather than another SNES Mario re-hash. :roll:

[Bratwurst]

Concerning the Sonic Advance series I'm not even sure how involved Sonic Team is in their creation beyond Yuji Naka giving a nod to Dimps development.

I can see how someone might compare them to the Genesis titles and whine about the missing magic because they are different. Still good productions imo and the music level in Advance 2 was brilliant.

[ubersaurus]

Ok, so what are you wambulancing about here?

Billy Hatcher rocks. Sonic Team made Billy Hatcher. It's a fun game, it's upbeat, it's wacky, it's off the wall, all things you don't see much in a good game. But according to you, sonic team made it, so it must suck.

2nd, did sonic team do the emulation for Smash Pack? I really don't think they did. I'm pretty sure they outsourced that pack's emulation.

3rd, Sonic Battle is about the only good 3d fighter on the gba. it's a fun game, it has an innovative system for controlling your characters moves, and when you got more then one person playing, it's madness.

4th, did Sonic Team do pinball party? I don't have a copy so I'm not sure...but no sense in blaming them for something they didn't do. Remember, they didn't work on 3d Blast either (though that game was pretty fun).

Finally, Sonic Heroes was a helluva lot better then any of the adventure games. Team sonic was cool, team chaotix was cool, and there was nothing really bad about team shadow (it was just team rose that sucked ass). It was alot more speed based then the adventure games, anyway-remember knuckles hunting emeralds? Big fishing? Yeah, those are real sonic style games alright. So why all the hate on Heroes? Because it wasn't as good as you expected? Doesn't make it any less of a good game.

[Jasoco]

I liked hunting Emeralds. In Sonic Adventure 2, it was the best levels. Especially Pumpkin Hill. I love Pumpkin Hill's look. And the music. Best song.

[brykasch]

Sonic Team-

Well some of the blame can be placed on team members leaving, directors, leaving, pressure from Sammy, among other things. When you don't have the time you want, or need to do what you would like, and you have a corporate parent rushing things out to make a quick buck no matter the quality (sammy) this will happen.

Also they have no system to sell, that can affect game design as well. Sega developers seemed to put more effort into things when they had the saturn, dc.

Sonic Heroes- Myself I liked it, and both adventure games on the dc, sonic shhuffle was decent as well. PSO was the bomb and continues to be so. PSOIII.. well I don't know as its not on the box, and I am not buying a adapter to get online. But PDO was great, so was OTOGI. Yeah they may be in a little bit of a rut, but creative in the game business is in the minority nowadays imho.

[dreamcaster]

But PDO was great,

Panzer Dragoon Orta was done by Smilebit, unless you're lumping all of Sega's development companies into one - which isn't right. All of Sega's dev teams are very different from eachother as are the games they create.

[Charlie]

Billy Hatcher was a good game, yes it was.

Epicenter, if you're unhappy with the Sonic Team then maybe you should accuse them of piracy or something proactive.

[RCM]

ManekiNeko wrote:

So let me get this straight. You have to play through every single level of a game before you're entitled to an opinion about it? That rule applies no matter how long the game is, and no matter how utterly dreadful it is? I've got just one thing to say to that..bullshit



You don't have to play through every level to have an opinion about a game, but in order to have the best opinion possible it is my opinion that you should play through a game before proclaiming that it is a piece of shit. It's like watching a trailer to a movie and then saying it sucks. The trailer might look like shit but you won't ever really know how good or bad the film is b/c you didn't watch it. And by the way, read my posts before you jump on me I said:


don't judge Sonic Advance 3 until you've played through it. I really don't have much patience for people that talk shit on games that they haven't played or beaten (in some cases).

Not every title is awesome from playing a single level. THe level or levels you played very well could have been incomplete. My statement was loose, and i was trying as hard as possible not to be so general and absolute. I really don't see how anyone can argue with the fact that you will never fully know how good or bad a title is until you've played the entire game. If that wasn't clear to you then I hope it is now. If you don't agree that's up to you, but I think that's bullshit!

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[charitycasegreg]

YES... SONIC IS A FAGGOT NOW. Waht happend to the good 'ol sonic with the spikes? Now he has green eyes and long hair? I used to get the comics up till issue 74 (about 4 years ago) thats when sonic changed. They used to be cool till they got all "mature". Plus yes, all these new characters are really gay. They also fucked robotnic up. Sonic adventure was fun but since then, sonic the hedgehog just isnt the same... R.I.P. old school sonic and friends. :(

I think you could've expressed your distaste for Sonic without resorting to homophobic language.


Ok, the creators of sonic ruined him in my view.

[charitycasegreg]

I liked hunting Emeralds. In Sonic Adventure 2, it was the best levels. Especially Pumpkin Hill. I love Pumpkin Hill's look. And the music. Best song.

LOL That was the part of the game I hated most. LOL

[Jasoco]

I liked hunting Emeralds. In Sonic Adventure 2, it was the best levels. Especially Pumpkin Hill. I love Pumpkin Hill's look. And the music. Best song.

LOL That was the part of the game I hated most. LOLMeh, I liked it. Actually, the parts I DIDN'T like were the ones with Tails and Robotnik.. uh.. Eggman.

I liked either running fast through a level or being able to fly and dig.

But Heroes really does not make sense. I do not like that at all. I want it to die. I was hoping for a new Sonic Adventure.. Nope.. got Heroes. Boooo... And yes, before someone asks, and they will, I HAVE played it.