3D games leave a lot to be desired...

[theaveng]

Last Ninja *4* is coming to the current-gen systems. Based upon screenshots, it appears the game will be full 3D rather than the isometric view used on the old Commodore 64. My question: Why 3D? What was wrong with the old fixed-camera view?

I don't understand why programmers have to make *everything* 3D. I'd rather play a fixed-camera view of Last Ninja with hi-res/hi-color graphics then the 3D Summoner or Mario where I can't see what I'm doing. In Summoner I beat up the bad guy by pressing the fire button as fast as possible because the lousy 3D prevents me from seeing the action... what fun is that?!? Give me the fixed-camera views of Last Ninja or Pac-Man World so I can at least SEE what's happening.

[YoshiM]

I dunno, it looks pretty good from the shots I saw (I think from lemon64, not sure I just hopped there, hopped off). It doesn't look like the camera is hugging the character too tight. I've never really played Last Ninja (except on the NES a couple of times) as it never hooked my interest.

Why 3D? It's the present and the future, that's why. Games have grown up. The gaming public has tasted 3D and doesn't want to go back. There's so much that can be done in three dimensions that making similar games 2D just wouldn't be the same. Could you play Goldeneye as a top down shooter? Naw, people would say it was a Metal Gear clone. Though I will admit not EVERYTHING is a good idea in 3D. Case in point: Castlevania for the N64. Same insane platform jumps, now with depth to screw with you even more. Then you get the developers who just can't get the camera to work right, causing your Summoner problems.

You have to realize that the 3D gaming we see now is very complicated to do and is still pretty "new" compared to 2D games. This was since when, 1995 that they've been using 3D in consoles? 2D has been going strong since 1977 (and earlier of course, but I'm counting the multi genre consoles here and not Pong knock offs). Factor in that the idea of making video games as a career wasn't widely accepted until the mid 90's when games actually became truely mainstream. So when you think about it comparitively, 3D game development on consoles is still young.

Anyway, don't knock the game till you try it. I didn't think Mario would make a great translation into 3D until I played Mario 64 and my mind changed.

[JohnnyRebel]

Hear hear!!
:agrue:

[Sniderman]

I will - of course - withhold judgement of the game until I see it. Having said that...

I (hesitantly) agree with theaveng here. It seems like every single friggin' game that comes down the pike MUST be either a 3D fully functioning environmental game or a first-person shooter. And God help us when they remake a classic game (Missle Command, Asteroids, the new Defender coming up, Pac-Man World, etc...)

I for one would KILL to see a simple 2D platformer in the style of the classic games of old. But they don't sell at all, so we're stuck with pretty bells and whistles rather than engrossing gameplay.

Of course, I feel that "bells and whistles" is the only thing that has kept other franchises alive this long (the FF series, the RE series, the Silent Hill series, most Capcom fighters, etc.)

[kainemaxwell]

Decent 2d platformers or shooters are too few and in-between nowadays which is just sad seeing the deluge of crappy to decent 3d games.

[Arcade Antics]

3D games leave a lot to be desired...

I disagree. Like 2D games, there are good and bad 3D games. The good ones (Splinter Cell, Jet Set Radio, GTA3/Vice, Virtua Tennis, Power Stone, Tekken series, Soul Calibur series, etc.) are nothing short of phenomenal - there is *nothing* to be desired in any of these titles.

The bad ones are bad, no question. It's a bit unfair to put down *all* 3D games *just* because they're 3D.


I don't understand why programmers have to make *everything* 3D.

They don't make *everything* 3D. Metroid Fusion is 2D, as are many GBA games. Super Bust-A-Move 2 is 2D. Contra: Shattered Soldier is pretty much a 2D game. Mars Matrix is 2D, and there are TONS of 2D games on the Dreamcast. You wanna send them a message they'll understand? Buy more of the good 2D games! :wink:

HOWEVER, I do partially agree with you if what you're trying to say is that just because they CAN make a 3D game doesn't mean they SHOULD. We say that a lot around here. :D

[Sniderman]

just because they CAN make a 3D game doesn't mean they SHOULD.

Isn't this Jurassic Park chaos theory? Ha!

[digitalpress]

I for one would KILL to see a simple 2D platformer in the style of the classic games of old. But they don't sell at all, so we're stuck with pretty bells and whistles rather than engrossing gameplay.

Tim, what you need is a Game Boy Advance, or even a Game Boy Color. About half of the games out for these systems in the past year are 2D platformers. Even your own beloved Spider-man... lovingly drawn in glorious 2D:
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=215246

So you know what this means, right? You will need to KILL now. :twisted:

[Sniderman]

Urge to kill.....RISING.

Ability to stop self....WEAKENING.

Must...not....kill..........again.....


Oh wait a sec, I *have* a GBC. I better go buy some 2D'ers.

[Lady Jaye]

Heck, even Tony Hawk can be played in 2D glory on the go! Personally, I can't stand the Gameboy ports of the THPS series, but that's just me.

[NE146]

I do like a lot of 3D games (although I tend to suck at them and get disoriented/lost easily). However having played Metroid Fusion recently, I have to say it's the FUNNEST thing I've played in a looong time. And in glorious 2D at that. But now that it's over, it has me interested in it's 3D counterpart whereas I wasn't before. :D

[nesman85]

Though I will admit not EVERYTHING is a good idea in 3D. Case in point: Castlevania for the N64. Same insane platform jumps, now with depth to screw with you even more. Then you get the developers who just can't get the camera to work right, causing your Summoner problems.


ahh c'mon, castlevania 64 was great. its one of my favorite games.

[kainemaxwell]

Camera problems seems to be a frequent plague of 3d games as well.

[Lady Jaye]

Yeah, I agree with kaine that camera problems are the biggest weakness of many 3D games.

[Memona]

Camera angles. One of the hardest issue to program in a 3d game by far. Great games can be lost in the sea of walls and clipping. Well lets look at the games that I bought in the last few months.

Mario Sunshine. The camera angles don't feel so bad. That is until the seashell lake cliff. When you climb ontop of the twisted shell, it's more of a chore to work with the camera. I don't remember Mario 64 giving me this trouble...

Kingdom Hearts. The worst camera angle I have ever seen in a game. Period. Can't even play the game very far without wanting to break the controller in two. It took me over an hour to defeat the collesium barrel contest just because of bad camera angle! Unforgivable.

Neverwinter Nights. While the camera isn't a problem, there should have been a default FPS view mode. The game has brillant graphics in some points, but way up in the air it looks cheapened. Plus it would add a certain immersive element to the game.

Timesplitters 2. You can't really screw up a FPS with camera unless you really try.

Icewind Dale. Perfect explain of fixed camera angle. A great game, a tad diffcultn because of the massive ammounts of monsters but a great game.

Hmm, it appears that all the 3d games I have played in the last 3 months have had awful camera angles. I suggest if the companies want me to spend $50 on a game I think it would be wise of them to work more on the camera angles instead of graphics. Than again that brings up the subject of the fair-play campaign. That is for some other topic. Well, I'm done ranting. For now.

[YoshiM]

Sorry NesMan, I tried. I really wanted to like this game. I mean, the opening was sweet, followed by the solitary sound of the violin...I felt chills. It's been too long so I can't site specifics anymore, but to me it felt like Konami wanted to keep a lot of the 2D elements into a 3D game. The one part I was livid over was the chasm, where you had to crawl down these platforms, make your jumps to the other side, then climb back up. The camera locked in place, giving it a "side view" of where you need to go. Unfortunately, I couldn't judge depth with this angle so I found myself jumping too far, not grabbing the ledge at all, or falling off because I was too close to the chasm edge after I did climb up. All in all it fell short with me.