Ultimately, the XBOX will be the most popular console, ever!

[Anthony1]

Ok, before you bombard me with flames of terror, understand what I mean by this.....


Here is my take:


Because the XBOX can be modded, and because you can put a huge hard drive in it, and because you can put emulators of all the old classic systems on it, and MAME, and all the other stuff, I think that ultimately, years and years from now, the XBOX will be looked back upon as the most wonderfull video game system ever.

Not so much for what the XBOX can do, that Microsoft actually intended, but what it can do, as provided by all the hackers and coders and people out there that have been able to get the XBOX to do all these wonderful things.

Think about it. The XBOX can virutally be turned into a full blown media server for gamers! Name any other system that can play Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, Sega CD, Super Nintendo, TurboGrafx-16 and PC Engine virtually perfectly? Plus it can play MAME and Neo Geo and Game Boy Advance, etc, etc, etc,.

A modded XBOX, with a huge hard drive and all the emulators and roms loaded into it, is like a living breathing museum of the first 25 years of Video Game History.

You also have to think long term too. Think about in the future when 500 Gig hard drives will be super cheap. There will be a time, when somebody can put a freaking 500 gigabyte hard drive into a XBOX, with the right mod chip, and you could fill that 500 Gigs, with the entire freaking history of Video Games as we know it.

Of course, emulation of the Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar and 3DO might never happen. And as powerfull as the XBOX is, it won't ever be able to emulate the Dreamcast or PS2 or GameCube.

But still.


Now, your take might be this...."Big deal, so the XBOX can emulate the classic old school systems, it's not like it's the first console to do that well (Dreamcast), nor will it likely be the last console to do that well".

Well, you may be right. But this will in all likelyhood be the ONLY console ever, to give you the freedom of being able to put everything onto a Hard Drive, and for things to be so freaking easy.

Mircosoft has learned their lessons from the original XBOX. With so many people modding their systems and putting huge hard drives in them, and loading them up with the latest Retail XBOX games, you will never, ever, see another system like this again.

Sony and Nintendo are very aware of what people are doing with their XBOXes, and they will undoubtably make sure that nothing of this sort happens with their next consoles.

Microsoft has already announced that the next XBOX won't have a "Hard Drive" as we know it.

I think 15 years from now, people will still be very interested in getting their hands on old XBOX systems, just because of all the crazy things that it can do, once it has been modded and turned out.

[Flack]

I don't agree.

I mean, yes, I agree that the xbox can be easily modified, but I don't think in the future people will really care. My laptop can do everything the xbox can do emulation-wise. I don't think anyone would buy an xbox just to play NES ROMs on it, for example. I think most people would just put them on their PC. Also, in the future I doubt you'll still be able to get mod-chips and the documentation on how to do a lot of this stuff will be long lost in the winds of the Internet.

One thing I do agree with you with is that I doubt very seriously we will see another console that will have this degree of configurability.

[Sniderman]

I had written a hell of a huge rebuttal, but I decided against it. This is just gonna become yet another "my console can beat up YOUR console" flame war. Useless, useless, useless.

Look, at some point EVERY console was the most cutting-edge in its field. And you're saying that the Xbox will still be kicking ass in 15 years? Hell, they said the same about the Dreamcast, Nintendo 64, original Playstation, Commodire 64, Atari 7800, blah blah blah blah.

Sorry, but in two decades, your Xbox will be gathering dust while you plug your SuperGameBoxStation directly into the port fused on your forehead.

Remember Back to the Future Part 2? Marty shows the kids how to play the old-time gunfighter game. "You mean you have to use your hands?" the kids whine. Same thing. Enjoy what we have now, 'cause it'll be eclipsed before you know it.

[Daria]

You know it's a nice gimmick and all... but my PC can just as easily emulate all those systems. I'm certainly not going to crack open my XboX for roms.
________
Gm Foods (http://gmfoods.info/)

[NE146]

Name any other system that can play Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, Sega CD, Super Nintendo, TurboGrafx-16 and PC Engine virtually perfectly? Plus it can play MAME and Neo Geo and Game Boy Advance

Nay on the TG-16/PC-Engine. The emulation of those on the xbox is pretty much crapola. I mean you can play a lot of the games sure.. but the sound is almost always off in one annoying way or another. Try playing Blazing Lazers.. the voice is muffled, and the explosions are non-existant. Or graphic effects don't work (try the lightning in the beginning of Legendary Axe II). Or games just crash completely (try playing Military Madness on any map larger than one screen).

But yeah, everything else... it pretty much plays perfectly ;)

[Kamino]

i'm going to have to heavily disagree with all the "YAY,XBOX!" stuff.
I will debunk all the arguments:
Graphics. If any of you - ANY OF YOU - out there care 1 fraction about graphics then WHY are you emulating old systems on your xbox? compared to xbox ALL the old graphics are "Crap".
2. xbox live is NOT the greatest online service to hit earth and not hte first either. From my readings, ATARI games were available on a download...dreamcast had downloads(side note: anyone run dc online servers?) and online play is NOT everybody's bag.
3. PLAYSTATION 2 has better 3rd party support. Notice how there are VERY FEW xbox-only games compared to ps2-only? out of my xbox collection there is halo, serious sam, toejam and earl 3 ,and panzer dragoon orta. if it werent for the last 2 i never would have bought xbox.
4. Say what you will but the xbox controller is in my mind subpar.
the original xbox controller was even worse....
but i can't stand the triggers on xbox. It annoys the hell out of me that they are pressure sensitive; i'm used to rapid-firing my twitchy fingers on everything. Nothing more embarrasing then getting my ass handed to me in a street fight in GTA3...
Also i find the vibration of xbox controllers to be very subpar. I know, force feedback is a silly gimmick, but the xbox controller has the vibration of a cheap 3rd party n64 tremor pak......n64(official) dreamcast, ps2, and gamecube all have decent, deep-sounding motors.
5. XBOX IS AFFILIATED WITH MICROSOFT. don't you just love that commanding "Do not make illegal copies of this disc" on every xbox game?
while xbox has some decent games, i'd take many systems over it any day, and if i had to dispose of one system in my collection, any one system, i'd even keep sega cd, 32x, and VIRTUAL BOY, over xbox.

[Anthony1]

i'm going to have to heavily disagree with all the "YAY,XBOX!" stuff.
I will debunk all the arguments:
Graphics. If any of you - ANY OF YOU - out there care 1 fraction about graphics then WHY are you emulating old systems on your xbox? compared to xbox ALL the old graphics are "Crap".
2. xbox live is NOT the greatest online service to hit earth and not hte first either. From my readings, ATARI games were available on a download...dreamcast had downloads(side note: anyone run dc online servers?) and online play is NOT everybody's bag.
3. PLAYSTATION 2 has better 3rd party support. Notice how there are VERY FEW xbox-only games compared to ps2-only? out of my xbox collection there is halo, serious sam, toejam and earl 3 ,and panzer dragoon orta. if it werent for the last 2 i never would have bought xbox.
4. Say what you will but the xbox controller is in my mind subpar.
the original xbox controller was even worse....
but i can't stand the triggers on xbox. It annoys the hell out of me that they are pressure sensitive; i'm used to rapid-firing my twitchy fingers on everything. Nothing more embarrasing then getting my ass handed to me in a street fight in GTA3...
Also i find the vibration of xbox controllers to be very subpar. I know, force feedback is a silly gimmick, but the xbox controller has the vibration of a cheap 3rd party n64 tremor pak......n64(official) dreamcast, ps2, and gamecube all have decent, deep-sounding motors.
5. XBOX IS AFFILIATED WITH MICROSOFT. don't you just love that commanding "Do not make illegal copies of this disc" on every xbox game?
while xbox has some decent games, i'd take many systems over it any day, and if i had to dispose of one system in my collection, any one system, i'd even keep sega cd, 32x, and VIRTUAL BOY, over xbox.


Did you even read my opening post? My post has nothing to do with the retail battle that the XBOX, PS2 and GameCube are currently involved in. My post has 100 percent to do with the fact that a modded XBOX, with a huge hard drive and all the emulators and roms loaded onto it, is like a living breathing museum of the first 25 years of video gaming.

I'm not talking about any of the crap that you are talking about.

You must have simply read the title of the thread, and then didn't even bother to read the opening take before going on your Fanboy rampage!

[Anthony1]

You know it's a nice gimmick and all... but my PC can just as easily emulate all those systems. I'm certainly not going to crack open my XboX for roms.


I understand your take, but I beg to differ. Sure, everything you can do on your XBOX, you can do on a PC. But there is one huge gigantic difference between the two


LOCATION


LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION


Typically PC's are located in the home office, with a stiff computer chair and a small monitor or lcd screen.


While the XBOX is typically located in the living room hooked up to a big huge TV and huge stereo sound system.


Sure, you can get a Video Card for your PC that has TV out capabilities, and you can even hook the audio up to your home stereo, but where they hell are you going to put the huge pc tower? What are you going to get a super long keyboard and mouse, and a super long gamepad cord? Are you going to get them wireless? I've got enough remotes and stuff littered all over my living room that I have no need for a wireless keyboard and mouse also floating around.

Oh, laptop you say?

Well, if you have 2 grand to donate, then sure.

But for $149.99 you can get a brand spanking new XBOX. For another $35 you can get the mod chip, and buy a $60 Hard Drive on sale. So for $250 you can basically have everything that you would on a PC, but in a much smaller package hooked up to your home entertainment center, without pissing off your wife or husband or whoever.


All I know is that I'm playing Contra for the NES on a giant 51 inch widescreen TV in Full on High Definition 1080i in Dolby Digital sound. The picture is super crisp, and the sound is crystal clear, and I'm kicking back on my couch, 11 feet away from the TV, and life is beautiful.

I can play Atari 2600, NES, SNES and Genny games in High Definition 1080i, and I can set the screen so that it fills my widescreen TV. It's freaking perfect.

Well almost. Not as good as the actual real system hooked up to a RGB monitor, but pretty damn close!

[esquire]

I completely agree with the original post. The XBOX is a totally unique system when it is modded. Not only can I run every emulator with every rom on it, it can run homebrew software on it. It can be used as an MP3/CD/DVD/VCD player to take to parties, etc. The options are just too many to list here. Check out http://www.xbox-scene.com/ for more info.

Some things need to be cleared up.

Flack, I am not sure if you are aware, but modding an XBOX does not even require the use of a modchip. As for documentation on how to mod the system, there are huge forum sites available such as http://www.xbox-scene.com/, which I am sure will prosper for some time. I can still obtain FAQs on Gamefaqs telling me how to mod a Saturn, a system that has been dead for several years now. Also, laptops are much more expensive than an XBOX, especially if you want to put in ay a 160 GB hard drive to run every emulator and rom available for it. Moreover, laptops are not known for, nor are they primarily used as a gaming machine.

Daria, yes a PC can play all those roms as well, but I don't see myself lugging my PC and monitor around when I visit a friend, family or go on vacation and want to play video games, like I do with my XBOX.

Judging by the nature of your responses, I don't think either of you have modded an XBOX. Clearly, Daria hasn't. That being said, unless you experience what a modded XBOX can do, I find your opinions not very persuasive. It would be like someone commenting on a car without ever taking it out for a test drive. It isn't personal.

NE146, what TG16 emulator are you using? Hugo?

[Hep038]

I think what Anthony1 was saying is the XBOX is a great video gaming tool. And I agree with him on that. I think when he used the word video game system some people stopped reading the post and started a reply.

[Daria]

Actually my Tv and computer are on the same desk. :P
________
Redheaded Live (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/redhead-girls/)

[Mayhem]

Only one flaw... unless you can change the BIOS inside the Xbox, 120MB HD is the largest it can handle...

[NE146]

NE146, what TG16 emulator are you using? Hugo?

Yes. Both Hugo_xbox v10 and XPCE-X v0.05. Last I checked both had similar issues.

I mean.. don't get me wrong. They work fine.. they play games and all. But unlike the other xbox emu's, they're not really good enough to stand as a full blown substitute for the real Turbografx. For example.. the snes and Genesis emulation is another story. I easily play those over the real thing any day and never miss a thing. I haven't broken out my SNES in a year or two.. (although of course I'll never get rid of it) :D Unfortunately I think we're pretty much stuck with sub-par TG-16/PCE emulation on the xbox until maybe Magic Engine goes open source. :P *cough*

[esquire]

Only one flaw... unless you can change the BIOS inside the Xbox, 120MB HD is the largest it can handle...

How is that a flaw? Most people who are already opening up their XBOX have some knowledge in modding the system, and most likely will be able to do this anyways.

I flashed the TSOP and split my bios and have no problems whatsoever. No modchips used at all. I can still use XBOX Live too.

[Nez]

Ill have to disagree wit the whole xbox over computer thing.
My laptop has a 60 gig hard drive woth allmost all the rom yo can posibly imagine.
All that is needs is a decent controller and your all set.
The laptop is portible so I can take it to work as well.
I dont really see how you could go wrong with the video resolution of a monitor either.
Last but not least have you ever tried playing an old action game on the damn xbox controller SHEER AND UTTER PAIN! The crap d pad wil cut you thumb after a short time.

[Anthony1]

Actually my Tv and computer are on the same desk. :P


ok, but you have to admit, that in 90 percent or more of American Family's homes, the PC is in the den/home office/computer room, and the video game systems are in the living room with the larger TV.

Computers aren't typically associated with kicking back on a sofa while playing a game, while video game systems are.



Certainly the one major problem with this whole thing is the controller issue. But I feel that this is an issue that will be solved soon. Mad Catz has a controller for the PS2 called the "Retro Con". It looks like a old NES controller, except it has two small analog thumbsticks on it, in addition to an old school style D-Pad. It also has 4 buttons on the face of it, instead of 2, like a NES pad. This controller is made for the PS2, but I would expect them to also make a XBOX version. Of course, one could always get a PS2 to XBOX controller adapter.

[digitalpress]

See, I see things happening the opposite way: more PC usage on TV's and in "convenient" locations. PC hardware has gotten so cheap and easily upgradeable that I'd predict a "death of all consoles" before declaring the Xbox the king of all game machines.

[charitycasegreg]

I think ill agree too. Id much rather play roms on my tv then on this computer, even if I hooked it up so the computer would be on the tv, id rather have a seperate system for it. Also, there will be someone who makes a nes controller for xbox, prolly within the next few months. I agree!...though i dont have an xbox. And the "compaired to xbox, all other graphics are crap" thing, yes they arent as good, but I wouldnt call them crap, I love snes graphics, its so nice looking to me.

[buttasuperb]

For romz, Xbox > PC

For me at least. I'd rather play on my 27" TV relaxing, than on my 17" monitor cramped up at the computer desk. That's just me of course, I'm sure others have better setups.

And why the hell would you play old arcade games using an xbox pad? Get an arcade stick.

[Daria]

Actually my Tv and computer are on the same desk. :P


ok, but you have to admit, that in 90 percent or more of American Family's homes, the PC is in the den/home office/computer room, and the video game systems are in the living room with the larger TV.

Computers aren't typically associated with kicking back on a sofa while playing a game, while video game systems are.

That wasn't ment to be a convincing argument. I'd started to reply and had to leave so I only had time for a single smartass answer. Honestly though I CAN see the benefiets of having roms on a console but I don't see enough people taking advantage of the system for a serious boost in popularity.

Unless the topic title was a burst of enthusiam on your part and the thread's really just an outlet for showing off how cool XboX emulation can be. Then yeah, it rocks.

Personally though I'm content rolling out my armchair, and curling up in front of my computer. But yeah that's just me.

Although those emulators aren't very demanding, couldn't you get yourself a cheaper older laptop for portable emulation? Though getting tv out for a laptop might be another story.
________
Jeep Wrangler History (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Jeep_Wrangler)

[Anthony1]

Actually, I must admit that the title of my thread is wrong.


In the title I said that....


Ultimately, the xbox will be the most popular console, ever!


But that is incorrect.


Really it should read like this...


Ultimately, the XBOX will be the most popular console ever, among those of us that will still be interested in late 80's early 90's video games 10 years from now.


Yeah, I know, slightly different audience there.

Among the general gaming public, the XBOX won't ever be close to as popular as the PS2, much less go down in History as the most popular console ever, but I think among the Retro Gamers, and the Classic Gamers, eventually it will.

And not for the console itself.

But for what can be done WITH the console.


I just don't see how any Retro Gamer that could tolerate playing Roms could not fall in absolutely mad love with the XBOX. Sure, there is the controller issue, but that is being worked on right now at this moment. Soon, for a price, you will be able to order a NES, SNES, Genesis or TG-16 gamepad, to actually use on the XBOX.

So the issue of the controller will actually go away. And when it comes to MAME, there isn't any issue with the controller. Get yourself a X-Arcade stick and a XBOX Adapter for it.


I just know that 10 years from now, I will still have my old XBOX. Why? For the simple ability that it can basically be a very convient, portable, Video Game Server.

[NE146]

It just seems kind of futile to pit them against the other...

First of all, I'm sure everyone here and their brother has emu's and roms on their pc. It aint no secret. It's the most common way to do it, and we ALL do. There's no need to say that your pc or laptop can do it all. All of ours can.

I do agree about the xbox on it's portability. If you haven't experienced it, it's like taking a SNES (or any console) to any tv, plugging in and bam. It's all there. You can take it downstairs, you can take it to Grandmas house, heck you can take it on a road trip, etc. Granted you can do the same thing with a dedicated "white box" pc where you install a tv-out, a good controller, and fill it up. It'll be more expensive but a lot of people do go that route. It's all good.. matter o' fact it's pretty much all the same.

As Joe alluded to, it's only the beginning. Emulators are here for good. Dreamcast was sort of the beginning, and now the Xbox. Naturally, as time goes on there will be more platforms and devices that these things will be ported to in one way or another... officially or unofficially. It's just the way it goes. We're just getting our first taste of console power being enough to handle it with the xbox. But who knows tomorrow.. maybe we'll be walking around with entire ps2 gaming libraries in our watches. :P

[petewhitley]

I agree with Anthony1. XBox has more potential than any console in history, and it's unlikely the next few waves of consoles with have such customization.

[YoshiM]

As much as I like Xbox, I think the mod scene isn't nearly as huge as everyone would like to believe. We just hear about it a lot and that usually gets translated into a fact that it's common.

As for the Xbox being popular in the future because of what it can do: maybe in the short term like three years but beyond that, I don't think so. The computer industry is trying to push its way into the living room with "entertainment devices". Computers are no longer the power tool that has to stay in an office or den or the kid's room but it is now easy enough to put next to your surround sound system. With special cases it can LOOK like a component. Eventually what we know as a "console" will disappear and will become a computing device, kinda like a Commodore 64 from back in the day mashed with the benefits of a 1,000 disc CD player (thanks to MP3, AAC or whatever music files you have) and a DVR. Xbox and its mod abilities will be a faded memory as everyone will be out to trick out their TVBox. The only people who will remember the Xbox that could be a computer, media center, DVD player, emulator and lastly a console will be people like us.

Krazy_kamino: I suggest decaf, buddy. Chill :D Now to kinda retort your debunking (note I haven't modded my Xbox but I understand the reasons behind it for others):

1. Graphics-funny question to ask on a retrogaming site :P . The emulation is there for both convenience and the ability to see these games on a bigger screen. Playing a NES game on a small window on my monitor just doesn't look right and expanding the screen doesn't look right either. If not to relive past games it's a way to play a LOT of games for little to no money. It's like why play games on a cell phone when your Game Boy is better? Or why play a web game when you can buy a full fledged PC game?

2. Xbox Live is primarily a game play service and a content provider second. If you are on there to get downloads only, it's probably a waste of cash as a lot of times Official Xbox Magazine demo discs will get some of the content after it is online. True it's not everyone's bag but it is growing in popularity. If you check out many mainstream gaming sites and even reviews the availability of online access for games that would do great with online is becoming more and more sought after. When (not if) broadband access becomes cheaper and more widely available, be prepared to see an online game explosion. Except from Nintendo (*rimshot*). Live itself is pretty good for what it is and for what it's for. It's nothing compared to PC but not everyone wants to play PC games.

3. PS2 has great support period. That's a given. But Xbox is starting to get more and more as time goes on. It won't beat PS2 in a popularity contest but Microsoft accomplished their brand. You also have to factor in that PS2 has been out LONGER than both Cube and Xbox. Next generation we will probably see a more evening out of titles as the Xbox brand will have been established.

4. Controllers are always a debating point. Different strokes for different folks. Personally I like the Xbox controllers and have no problems with the triggers. If the game isn't rapid fire enough, the programmers didn't take into the account of the trigger's analog control. As for vibration, it's fairly strong for me but I don't want anything that's gonna jump out of my hand or cause my arm to go numb. And these days force feedback is standard, not a gimmick. The gimmick came about seven years ago when the rumble pack and the Dual Shock were introduced. :)

5. Xbox is affliliated with MS. Your point? Playstation 2 is affliated with Sony who started the trend of making the accessory memory card mandatory if you want to be able to play most of the games (and by play I mean play as the game was intended: with the ability to save). They also want to invade the living room as much as Microsoft does. Gamecube is affiliated with Nintendo who in the mid 80's had a monopoly on the console market and abused it. They also pretty much shafted loyal Game Boy customers by releasing the GBA a scant 2 years after the Game Boy Color was released thus forcing an upgrade as now GBC games were obsolete. Then on top of THAT they release the SP a little over a year after the GBA, adding more insult to injury. On top of that the major games they release are near pixel perfect ports of SNES classics rather than trying to create new material (but then again people like those games so mileage may vary).

And you try to insinuate that Microsoft is bad? They're all guilty of something, son :D

[Captain Wrong]

You know it's a nice gimmick and all... but my PC can just as easily emulate all those systems. I'm certainly not going to crack open my XboX for roms.

Exactly.

This is why video cards have a TV out now.

[neuropolitique]

Sure, everything you can do on your XBOX, you can do on a PC. But there is one huge gigantic difference between the two


LOCATION


LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION


Typically PC's are located in the home office, with a stiff computer chair and a small monitor or lcd screen.


While the XBOX is typically located in the living room hooked up to a big huge TV and huge stereo sound system.


Sure, you can get a Video Card for your PC that has TV out capabilities, and you can even hook the audio up to your home stereo, but where they hell are you going to put the huge pc tower? What are you going to get a super long keyboard and mouse, and a super long gamepad cord? Are you going to get them wireless? I've got enough remotes and stuff littered all over my living room that I have no need for a wireless keyboard and mouse also floating around.

Oh, laptop you say?

Well, if you have 2 grand to donate, then sure.

But for $149.99 you can get a brand spanking new XBOX. For another $35 you can get the mod chip, and buy a $60 Hard Drive on sale. So for $250 you can basically have everything that you would on a PC, but in a much smaller package hooked up to your home entertainment center, without pissing off your wife or husband or whoever.


All I know is that I'm playing Contra for the NES on a giant 51 inch widescreen TV in Full on High Definition 1080i in Dolby Digital sound. The picture is super crisp, and the sound is crystal clear, and I'm kicking back on my couch, 11 feet away from the TV, and life is beautiful.

I can play Atari 2600, NES, SNES and Genny games in High Definition 1080i, and I can set the screen so that it fills my widescreen TV. It's freaking perfect.

Well almost. Not as good as the actual real system hooked up to a RGB monitor, but pretty damn close!

For just over one grand I can get an iBook. It's hella mobile, has built in S-video or composite out (via optional cable), accepts USB gamepads, surfs the internet, burns cd's, plays dvds, and looks better. I can also type a letter on it, email a freind, keep my game database, chat with a friend, use iTines, etc., etc.

The best thing is, my iBook I bought three years ago can do all that too.

I think you underestimate laptops. Prices are continuously dropping, as power increases. There are many desktop replacements out there, and even some dedicated gaming laptops. Many more people are choosing laptops when buying new computers. It's to a point where it doesn't make any sense not to. When people already have a more elegant solution than the Xbox, why would they bother?

[Anthony1]

Comparing laptops to XBOX's is just plain silly.


You can go to any store and get a brand spanking new XBOX for $149.99. You can get a nice mod chip for $35. You can get a 120 gig hard drive for as low as $69.99 after rebates and instant savings. For another $40, you can pay somebody to put in the hard drive and mod chip, and set up your XBOX.

So for a grand total of $300, you can have a modded XBOX, with a 120 gig hard drive in it, and all the emulators and roms that you can imagine.

Plus, this is a plug and play device. You don't have to worry about the normal problems that you always have to worry about, when it comes to PC's.

It's completely standardized.


Plus, much better than S-Video and standard audio output, with XBOX you can have HDTV and Dolby Digital sound.

No contest.

[charitycasegreg]

Comparing laptops to XBOX's is just plain silly.


You can go to any store and get a brand spanking new XBOX for $149.99. You can get a nice mod chip for $35. You can get a 120 gig hard drive for as low as $69.99 after rebates and instant savings. For another $40, you can pay somebody to put in the hard drive and mod chip, and set up your XBOX.

So for a grand total of $300, you can have a modded XBOX, with a 120 gig hard drive in it, and all the emulators and roms that you can imagine.

Plus, this is a plug and play device. You don't have to worry about the normal problems that you always have to worry about, when it comes to PC's.

It's completely standardized.


Plus, much better than S-Video and standard audio output, with XBOX you can have HDTV and Dolby Digital sound.

No contest.

I agree with the original post, but yes the xbox will be cheaper, but a laptop will give you a lot more.

[esquire]

Comparing laptops to XBOX's is just plain silly.


You can go to any store and get a brand spanking new XBOX for $149.99. You can get a nice mod chip for $35. You can get a 120 gig hard drive for as low as $69.99 after rebates and instant savings. For another $40, you can pay somebody to put in the hard drive and mod chip, and set up your XBOX.

So for a grand total of $300, you can have a modded XBOX, with a 120 gig hard drive in it, and all the emulators and roms that you can imagine.

Plus, this is a plug and play device. You don't have to worry about the normal problems that you always have to worry about, when it comes to PC's.

It's completely standardized.


Plus, much better than S-Video and standard audio output, with XBOX you can have HDTV and Dolby Digital sound.

No contest.

I agree with the original post, but yes the xbox will be cheaper, but a laptop will give you a lot more.

I love it when threads totally detract ftom the original post.

We are not comparing the XBOX to PCs or laptops. The thread is about the durability and longevity of the xbox due to its ability to be modded and the ability to run emus, homebrew software, mp3, etc. off its hard drive.

Also, you do not even have to install a modchip on an xbox to get it modded.

[neuropolitique]

Plus, much better than S-Video and standard audio output, with XBOX you can have HDTV and Dolby Digital sound.


Which NES games can take advantage of HDTV resolutions?

My point was that most people already have a computer, and more are getting laptops, that can do all those things already. Why pay $300 for a machine that does less than a machine you already have?

[-hellvin-]

The xbox pretty much can't beat out a PC for most of the things it can do. The only reason I prefer using the xbox for emulation/video streaming is because I fucking hate using a video out connection from the PC. Gotta load it up on the PC, switch it on, adjust the screen, go over to the PC, load up the programs you want to use, ect. With the xbox it's just all right there with nice navigatable menus and network share capabilities. And I love the xbox controller compared to most pc gamepads I've used, never found one that's pleased me.

[Raedon]

The Phantom oWNz ALL!!1!~

[Anthony1]

Plus, much better than S-Video and standard audio output, with XBOX you can have HDTV and Dolby Digital sound.


Which NES games can take advantage of HDTV resolutions?

My point was that most people already have a computer, and more are getting laptops, that can do all those things already. Why pay $300 for a machine that does less than a machine you already have?


1. Obvisously, none of the systems that can be emulated originally outputted anthing higher than 640 x 480 interlaced (N64) and the majority had really low resolution. The NES's resolution was 256 x 240, the Genesis was 320 x 224, the SNES was 512 x 448, TG-16 was 256 x 216, etc, etc. But I can assure you that games like Contra and Super Mario Bros. look really, really good in 1080i on the XBOX hooked up to a HDTV. The video is crystal clear, and as vivid as the crappy NES could be. And some Genesis games in 1080i almost appear to look as good as if it was a real Genesis hooked up to a RGB monitor.

2. Of course most people already have a computer. And yes, more and more are getting laptops. So why pay $300 for a machine that does less than a machine that you already have? Easy. Pure and simple convience.

I will say it once, and I will say it a million times. It's all about location. The XBOX is located in the living room, hooked up to the Home Theater. It's hooked up to the big widescreen HDTV, and the Dolby Digital Home Theater system. The PC is located in the Den/Home Office/Computer room. Sure, there are lots of PC Video Cards now with Video Output to a TV, but usually the S-Video out that most provide look like absolute crap connected to your average TV. While a XBOX hooked up to a HDTV with the High Def AV pack, looks damn good.

[Achika]

I'm in agreeance (sp.) with both Daria and Neuropolitique.

I don't want to crack open my Xbox and mod it (potentially voiding any and all warranties, potential use of Xbox Live, etc.) to put a large harddrive that I already have on my comp and the possible use of Emulation, which both my desktop & laptop could do.

My laptop is much lighter than the Xbox, smaller, and I don't have to take as much crap around with it, which makes the point of "portability" mute.

I'll stick with my just-over-a-grand iBook that comes with software that I can write papers, scan and edit images, print things out, play music, watch DVDs (with no need for an external remote), play games, chat with others, etc. plus the multitude of other things that I can buy to make it even more expansive. And with the VGA & S-Video adapters, I can output it to whatever device I want. (Sorry, but the DVD that I'm watching on my iBook outputed to the TV looks just as good as it does when I watch it with my DVD player)

Oh, and there's that thing about being able to go to the park and play a game without needing a power source and dragging a monitor for me.

You had said something about the "average american family"



ok, but you have to admit, that in 90 percent or more of American Family's homes, the PC is in the den/home office/computer room, and the video game systems are in the living room with the larger TV

I don't think the average american family really cares much about playing "old nintendo games" that they traded in to get their Xbox; wether or not the Xbox can handle it.

So, in essence, I suppose the computer platform is the definative platform for emulation

[Mr Mort]

while xbox has some decent games, i'd take many systems over it any day, and if i had to dispose of one system in my collection, any one system, i'd even keep sega cd, 32x, and VIRTUAL BOY, over xbox.

Give me a break.

You're entitled to your opinion, but can you really honestly say that systems like the 32X and VB have more entertainment value than the Xbox? I have a hard time believing that.

[NE146]

You're entitled to your opinion, but can you really honestly say that systems like the 32X and VB have more entertainment value than the Xbox? I have a hard time believing that.

Yknow it's funny though. I think I played more 32x, sega-CD and SNES on the Xbox this past month than I have any Xbox game! LOL

..Come to think of it.. I don't think I have played an xbox game since a while ago when I tried Ninja Gaiden for about 5 minutes :hmm:

Not any bias of course. I do dig xbox games. I'm just saying how it's been here recently :P

[hydr0x]

well, i have to agree and disagree here,

YES, the xbox is a very very powerful tool to do things lik emulation and so on

but NO, it's not superior to a well modded pc! here are the reasons:

- if you use a modded pc for this, you don't have to ruin your xbox, there are a lot of collectors who do not want to change ANYTHING in their console because it's not the original collectors item anymore if they do

- my pc will be much more upgradeable, in the future i will be able to emulate even the newer consoles

- every pc has A LOT of functions and possibilities a Xbox could never have, and i want to be able to use those on my tv screen too

- a good modded pc is smaller and more beautiful than a xbox

- if you want to a pc fits better into your home entertainment equipment than the xbox, it might be a bit more work to mod it that way, but it'll be worth every hour

[hydr0x]

ok, but you have to admit, that in 90 percent or more of American Family's homes, the PC is in the den/home office/computer room, and the video game systems are in the living room with the larger TV

I don't think the average american family really cares much about playing "old nintendo games" that they traded in to get their Xbox; wether or not the Xbox can handle it.


very good point, most collectors (the people that might really be interested in playing roms on xbox) have a real gaming room. In that room it should be absolutely no problem (if well designed) to use even a big tower pc in combination with your tv screen to play roms

[Ed Oscuro]

My post has 100 percent to do with the fact that a modded XBOX, with a huge hard drive and all the emulators and roms loaded onto it, is like a living breathing museum of the first 25 years of video gaming.
That's like saying a DVD player is a "living breathing museum" of the whole history of film.

It's safe to say that ain't the case.

The XBox sucks for any sort of serious emulation. The processor is 733 MHz and while that's fine for moving semi-low-res graphics on a TV screen (or HDTV, if you don't mind that extra performance hit...but that's another story altogether...) it's absolutely crap for trying to emulate anything with serious encryption going on, unless you have a nonencrypted/deencrypted game (which most likely wouldn't bother most emulation freaks). That's been covered already


Think about it. The XBOX can virutally be turned into a full blown media server for gamers! Name any other system that can play Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, Sega CD, Super Nintendo, TurboGrafx-16 and PC Engine virtually perfectly?
Any serious personal computer/workstation can do that and much more. You can probably luck into a 1.2GHz AMD Athlon for the same price as a new XBox these days, or build one from parts for not really that much.

However that's not my main point.

The XBox can be turned into a "full blown media server" for gamers! How about a console that's popular enough that it can be used as a media jukebox? That'd be the PS2. The XBox has its "play MP3s in selected games" feature, but the PS2 is popular enough that some folks decided to create a program that lets you use your PC as a media server for the PS2 so you can play files off it. If that wasn't a built-in feature on the XBox and the XBox didn't have a hard drive, would anybody have bothered to make such a program? Hard to say.

[Ed Oscuro]

It surprises me how willing people are to mod their 'boxen...I'm assuming all the hardware mods are going to void your warranty, and with today's crappy hard drives...no thanks.

On another note, my PC's chair is more comfortable than the chairs in front of my gaming TV. Not that I really could care. Both are in the same room, as well.

Another thing that the XBox has working against it is the whole "incompatible with NeXtBox" deal. If it works on the XBox it will need to be totally rewritten to work on the 2Box, which of course...hah. It's nice that gaming consoles have gotten to be such good performers but there will always be more future consoles. On the PC and Macintosh side there's a pretty clear upgrade path and compatibility extending a good ways back (even on Mac with a third party program, and Windows has some of it).

As for folks who just emulate on their XBox and don't use their SNES or Genny anymore...what the hell, what the hell.

[NE146]

yknow though.. again, you guys might as well stop trying to convince xbox users about how a pc is better for emulation. They all HAVE it already. We all have computers. We all have used them for emulation. So it's kind of futile talking about it's advantages... Everyone already knows! Everyone already has played emus on computers far before the xbox came about, and I'm sure we all still do. :)

It's kind of like going out on a limb trying to explain all the ways a tv in the house is a more preferable than a tv in the car. I mean.. we all have tv's in our house already... they're great. It's just that some people also like having it in the car! :P And is it so wrong? Just because you may not have that option or don't want it doesn't make it any less valid for others.

emus on PC + emus on DC + emus on xbox +emus on whatever platform pops up in the future == all good :D


As for folks who just emulate on their XBox and don't use their SNES or Genny anymore...what the hell, what the hell.

It aint what the hell.. it's just space saving. It saves wear and tear on the consoles as far as I'm concerned. They're all nicely stored away, all carts stacked and stored. Anytime of course, I can break them out for the real deal (like I did recently to test out a Virtua Racing cart I bought for 4 bucks)..but for general gameplay, the emulation is just that much more convenient. You can't tell the difference anyway, aside from the lack of clutter :P You can take it to grandma's, you can take it downstairs, you can take it to your temporary cubbyhole tv at work and set it up in seconds too. Harder to do that with a Genesis, SNES, 32X, SegaCD, and NES all at once with a respectable library of carts for each.

It doesn't fully REPLACE them (no friggin way I'm giving up my originals), but for your average game playing when visiting mom for the holidays, it makes a fine and convenient SUBSTITUTE :)

[Ed Oscuro]

yknow though.. again, you guys might as well stop trying to convince xbox users about how a pc is better for emulation. They all HAVE it already. We all have computers. We all have used them for emulation. So it's kind of futile talking about it's advantages... Everyone already knows! Everyone already has computers with emus far before the xbox came about, and I'm sure we all still do. :)
I know we've all been over it before, but that's what happens when somebody posts a topic like this. Inevitably. So that must make your post insanely futile. ;p

But to make a real rebuttal - We'll still have our computers 10 years from now, I'm quite certain of it. Most of the XBox's fanclub will have moved on to other systems and I don't see folks regularly updating ports to the system. With a PC you can just squeeze out a new executable and hopefully performance isn't such a big issue, but on a limited system like the XBox where the horizons are defined a person's going to want to have a highly optimized program. Will somebody 10 years from now have any time to port an executable to the XBox? On the PC (and to a good extent the Macintosh) there are no set horizons for performance, no practical limits on what you can emulate there.

The Dreamcast's been mentioned, and I wouldn't be surprised if the 'cast actually has a better run in the emulation scene if we see a number of good hard drive capable consoles in the next generation. I think the Dreamcast, with its Windows CE and VGA capabilities, exists in a bubble separate from everything else. A unique but cool system, that's for sure.


It's just that some people also like having it in the car! :P And is it so wrong? Just because you may not have that option or don't want it doesn't make it any less valid.
You PIRATE. You have a TV in your car. (we've all been down that "road" before, yuk yuk)



As for folks who just emulate on their XBox and don't use their SNES or Genny anymore...what the hell, what the hell.
You can't tell the difference anyway
Yes I can. I can't imagine what playing Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness at high-res 60 FPS would be like...Probably terrible and mortally terrifying. In any case that's another issue of opinion, so...yeah. The feel of the controller is part of the classic game experience for me, and I don't want anything messing up my muscle memory http://www.digitpress.com/forum/images/smiles/Llol.gif

Finally...PC = PrtScr, capture cards, digicams & scanners, access to the internet. That's a must for me, and I consider emulation irreplaceable for putting all the files in one place. The XBox doesn't do that for me. I also think it'd be horrible to try to play many of the titles in MAME on an XBox without a keyboard...yeah, the keyboard isn't fantastic but getting to dip switches/configuration menus must be a pain. So, for me, PC = convenience. :3

[hydr0x]

yknow though.. again, you guys might as well stop trying to convince xbox users about how a pc is better for emulation. They all HAVE it already. We all have computers. We all have used them for emulation. So it's kind of futile talking about it's advantages... Everyone already knows! Everyone already has played emus on computers far before the xbox came about, and I'm sure we all still do. :)

It's kind of like going out on a limb trying to explain all the ways a tv in the house is a more preferable than a tv in the car. I mean.. we all have tv's in our house already... they're great. It's just that some people also like having it in the car! :P And is it so wrong? Just because you may not have that option or don't want it doesn't make it any less valid for others.

emus on PC + emus on DC + emus on xbox +emus on whatever platform pops up in the future == all good :D


sorry but i think you are missing one important point, of course all xbox emu users also have used or do use emus on pc (they must, there isn't any other way to get the emu than per internet/pc). BUT a lot the "xbox is superior for emulating" people miss these points:

- a modded pc can be even smaller than a xbox, i'm not talking of laptops here

- a modded pc can always be repaired

- a pc has superior picture and sound capabilities (especially in the future with 7.1 and all that stuff)

- you can use nearly EVERY controller for any console on the pc if u want

- you can play per real internet, not a given online environment

- you can actually download all the stuff you need on the system that needs it

- a modded pc is more quiet than the xbox

[Ed Oscuro]

The most telling thing is that many folks praise the XBox so much because it is easily modded (I'm going to guess that anti-piracy czars at Microsoft are NOT pleased, and that "easily modified to play emulated, illegally obtained software" did not show up on any Power Point presentations in Redmond), not because it has good games. Some of you have said as much.

If Microsoft is selling each XBox at a loss, and not selling the software, is it safe to assume that the console will be "the most popular console, ever!" It was so popular that they never made a profit off it! Whether or not various posters here know how to mod it is perhaps quite relevant, because it's very likely most folks out in the wild either know nothing about modding or think it's a bad idea. I know a few who have or want to mod theirs, but not everybody.

[calthaer]

PC > Xbox

Halo mod tools, here I come! Can't wait for the possible multi-player coop patch that Gearbox alluded to in their recent Q&A. Not only can the PC do things that the Xbox can't, they can also do things BETTER that the Xbox supposedly can do well (i.e. - play Halo).

Who would play ROMz on an Xbox when they have to solder chips and do all that crap? It's all about the Plug 'n' Play.

[omnedon]

A modded Xbox does not tie up your PC.

That is all.

[NE146]

Yeah I think I should've also added to my post above.. the entire point of this topic!....


Ultimately, the XBOX will be the most popular console, ever!

I don't think so... not at all. It's just the nicest one around at the moment for convenient emus. I don't think it's avoidable, there will be better platforms for them in the future FOR SURE.

I guess I shoulda made at least that clear. Just as DC was cool 2 years ago, xbox is now the 'fun' one to play with. But I'll migrate off in a hurry on the next big thing...

...and yeah of course.. I'll always have my pc or incarnation of it in the future ;)

[esquire]

You know, I think you guys need to go back and read the original post. This was not about XBOX vs PC, it was about the long lasting appeal of the XBOX due to its ability to be modded. Of course a PC is going to be superior to an XBOX, but I dare anyone to make a more powerful PC for the same amount of money I will spend buying an XBOX ($150), the necessary tools to mod it (around $30 depending on which route you go) and a large hard drive (say $80) that can hook up to a TV. You simply cant do it. But then again, the post was not meant to compare apples to oranges.

As for you collectors that are afraid to open your XBOX because it may void your warranty, I have three things:

1. How long do you expect that warranty to last? I haven't looked at my XBOX warranty card but I assume its no more than 1 year. I could be wrong. But I am sure its not lifetime, maybe 2 years tops. So I don't see this as a valid argument against opening it up. The warranty does not last to begin with.

2. Someone mentioned that with today's crappy hard drives you wouldn't trust replacing your XBOX HD. That's the beauty of it, you keep your little 10GB original Hard Drive stored away as a backup in case anything goes wrong. I really think you guys should research modding an XBOX before you opine on why it shouldn't be done. Modding an xbox is simple and no different than upgrading your PC.

3. Speaking of PCs again (I hate to break my own rule here about diverging from the original post, but oh well) how many of you guys have a factory built PC? I assume if you do you'll never upgrade it, because technically, when you open your Sony/HP/Compaq/Dell/Alienware etc. built PC, you are voiding your warranty. :)

[hydr0x]

3. Speaking of PCs again (I hate to break my own rule here about diverging from the original post, but oh well) how many of you guys have a factory built PC? I assume if you do you'll never upgrade it, because technically, when you open your Sony/HP/Compaq/Dell/Alienware etc. built PC, you are voiding your warranty. :)

sorry to burst your bubble but i will NEVER own a factory build PC, NEVER, oh and btw, speaking of price, in max. 2 years a pc more powerful than the xbox will be as cheap or cheaper than the xbox, on the other hand, price is not a point to talk about as everyone HAS a pc, you don't need to buy one for emulation

[TomMage]

"I think that ultimately, years and years from now, the XBOX will be looked back upon as the most wonderfull video game system ever."

I have to disagree. Why you say? The dang system has next to ZERO RPGs. I have three of them now, one LE green sealed for collection, one LE opened I was going to play and one normal (just bought normal so don't need the opened LE anymore). In fact I will probably sell/trade the normal one too. I like RPGs, this system has been out a LONG time, why no RPGs? Reminds me of the dang N64, another crap system for RPGs. The hardware is great, yes it has unlimited potential but for me it's the games and for me games = RPGs.

Tom

[esquire]

3. Speaking of PCs again (I hate to break my own rule here about diverging from the original post, but oh well) how many of you guys have a factory built PC? I assume if you do you'll never upgrade it, because technically, when you open your Sony/HP/Compaq/Dell/Alienware etc. built PC, you are voiding your warranty. :)

sorry to burst your bubble but i will NEVER own a factory build PC, NEVER, oh and btw, speaking of price, in max. 2 years a pc more powerful than the xbox will be as cheap or cheaper than the xbox, on the other hand, price is not a point to talk about as everyone HAS a pc, you don't need to buy one for emulation

Not bursting my bubble at all. I was just stating a simple fact. Opening a factory built pc is no different that opening an xbox.

In 2 years the xbox will no longer be manufactured. A new more powerful console will be designed and in production. What is your point? Yes 10 years from there will be more powerful pcs too. :roll: Please don't state the obvious.

As for your argument that the more powerful PCs will be cheaper than a modded xbox (roughly $250), I find this very hard to believe. If history teaches us anything its that as pc technology changes and betters itself, the prices to the consumer usually stay the same, not decrease. Go back to 1997. A Pentium computer with MMX techology costs the same back then as a Pentium IV computer today, give or take $100.

As to your assertion that everybody already has a pc, true, but again you miss the point of the original posters message : location....location...location

A PC is not a console. A PC is not portable as a console. Nor does a PC cost as less as a console.

Of course people can run MAME, etc on their PC, but most people don't have their PC hooked up to their big screen TV in their family room.

[Achika]

Of course people can run MAME, etc on their PC, but most people don't have their PC hooked up to their big screen TV in their family room.

And in that point, "most" people don't have their Xbox modded in one way or the other, wether it be to play imports, backups, ROMz, or with a new, bigger harddrive.

"Most" people have a PC hooked up to a monitor and can get emulators and such with a factory built PC. It's easier to get up and go with them that way, than making the modifications. It's more casual gamer friendly in that respect I guess.

I just personally don't think that the Xbox is that great for emulation for casual gamers (which I'm sure makes up the majority of the userbase) and that PC's will still reign in that respect.

[Ed Oscuro]

Not bursting my bubble at all. I was just stating a simple fact. Opening a factory built pc is no different that opening an xbox.
I wouldn't buy a factory built PC, but I have worked on many of them and opened quite a few, and two of them that I remember offhand were still covered by warranty (one a Compaq and another a VPR Matrix, which I know for a fact the store folks understand I opened, and which I need to take in again sometime soon). Opening them didn't void the warranty. Yes, computer repair folks will just service an item anyhow since they charge for it, but will you see the same service afforded an XBox owner? Opening an XBox is different, and as the XBox uses a lot of soldered-on hardware and initializing a hard drive requires access to a special restore disc, I would have to guess that getting your XBox warranty voided and being stuck without any sort of ability to get it fixed would be a bad idea indeed.

Also...the XBox frees up your main PC? That's true, but a second PC can free it up as well!

It's no surprise the discussion has gravitated towards modding and warranties...after all we've seen that the XBox is really just a cheap, limited PC that connects to TVs and uses standardized USB controllers. The main thing is that the XBox only has an advantage because it has excellent hardware capabilities. Besides the so-great XBox library, there's nothing that makes it irreplaceable. This serves it well today, but it is entirely replaceable. Most people don't play on their NES or SNES anymore, after all, and it's those systems arguably (especially if you're one of us) had just as much fun potential as the XBox. The XBox has no advantage there. If you have however many Cell processors in your PS3 or a number of PowerPC processors in your NeXtBox, what's the use of keeping around an XBox (assuming BOTH have hard drives, that is; one will for sure, and that both will eventually be modded)? The XBox has no advantage there either.

I mentioned earlier that, the PS2 might be far behind the XBox in terms of hardware but has better software support. The appearance of the Eyetoy and media jukebox software prove that there's a "build it and he will come" mindset behind the user base, and whether or not they're more committed than the average XBox user is immaterial..."popularity" measured in terms of people behind a system, not in how much they love it. A few PC-Engine/TG-16 afficionados might have more liveliness and commitment than a stadium full of former NES players, but that doesn't make the NES less popular.

What's more, that a handful of TurboExpresspeople are better gamers than former NES players (or former SNES/Genny players, for that matter) isn't really true. Same goes for folks who chose the SMS over the NES...it's a choice, but popularity is all about numbers, and in each group you have the same diehard types. I feel that less people seem to be really hyped about the PS2 as opposed to really "geeked up" for the XBox, but I'm quite obviously wrong and it doesn't really matter this many years after launch...folks will remember the PS2 as a system that was pushed to the limits by game after game, and the XBox as the system that had (the) Halo(s) and DOA3. You'll be able to emulate everything the XBox did as well as the XBox itself on various other machines, and the XBox will simply retire to the pantheon of old venerated (but obsolete) disc based consoles. Popularity and sales say if a feature is available on the PS2 and XBox people will stick with their system - their overall favorite current system - and thus people overall will continue to avoid buying an XBox.

I keep saying this and everybody seems to go back to PC vs. XBox arguments. Anthony's "now and forevermore" statement will not prove to be true and while I like his enthusaiasm, equating a system's popularity with its characterization as an easily broken (software-wise) emulation machine just doesn't work. Now and for the foreseeable future, popularity will be determined by quality games, accessories, and hype, and thank goodness for that too.

[Oobgarm]

I'd never even stepped foot into this topic until about 5 minutes ago. I figured it was another one of those fanboy-blathering posts. Upon second glance, I found this to be a very interesting and also informative topic.

I agree with NE146, the Xbox is the current flavor of the week. Something new will come along, better, harder, faster, stronger, and people will flock to it as if it were the greatest gaming machine ever. Dreamcast was the same way. This topic would be right at home in 2000/2001 if it were about the Dreamcast.

There are good arguments to both sides of the coin here. The fact is that, like Achika mentioned, the average gamer isn't going to crack open their Xbox and put TIME and EFFORT into getting their Xbox to play ROMs, especially when their computer can (usually)do it with minimal effort from the user. Sure, us hardcore types might enjoy the novelty or whatnot of playing classic games on a newer system, but I don't see that trend spreading beyond where it is currently.

HOWEVER....playing the games in ProgScan is a tremendous plus. I think I'm gonna get myslef a spare Xbox and mod it solely for that reason. It's not gonna replace any of my consoles, current Xbox included, but it will be fun to mess around with. ^_^


...after all we've seen that the XBox is really just a cheap, limited PC that connects to TVs and uses standardized USB controllers

That's a mighty tasty morsel there, Ed.

[Ed Oscuro]

...after all we've seen that the XBox is really just a cheap, limited PC that connects to TVs and uses standardized USB controllers
That's a mighty tasty morsel there, Ed.
Mighty tasty, or perhaps "quickly eaten and then forgotten." The XBox will eventually be replaced, that's my whole point. It's wonderful but there's nothing about it (outside the game library) that really sets it apart.

[hydr0x]

ahh man you're not getting it, i'll try to explain it again too you



As for your argument that the more powerful PCs will be cheaper than a modded xbox (roughly $250), I find this very hard to believe. If history teaches us anything its that as pc technology changes and betters itself, the prices to the consumer usually stay the same, not decrease. Go back to 1997. A Pentium computer with MMX techology costs the same back then as a Pentium IV computer today, give or take $100.

bullshit, i never said that the NEWEST pc's are cheaper than an xbox, BUT, in a few years an old pc (and you can get old pc's for 150 bucks or whatever) will be much more powerful than the xbox, THATS my point



As to your assertion that everybody already has a pc, true, but again you miss the point of the original posters message : location....location...location

no, i just destroyed your price argument twice, because price does not matter if you have already paid it!!!



A PC is not a console. A PC is not portable as a console. Nor does a PC cost as less as a console.

true!wrong!wrong

pc's are equaly portable as a console, pc's are NOT big towers, they can be, but they don't have to, you can make them very very small if you want and design them the way you want to, seems as if you have no knowledge of pc modding at all, i could even mod a pc into a xbox shelf if i want to...

and a pc does cost less, as long as you don't buy the newest, and fact is, someday you won't need anything NEAR new to have more power than the xbox



Of course people can run MAME, etc on their PC, but most people don't have their PC hooked up to their big screen TV in their family room.

not true, sorry, the people that are interested in emulation are exactly the people that HAVE pc's in the same room as their gaming equipment, it's not a problem to connect it to your tv then....

[omnedon]

Also...the XBox frees up your main PC? That's true, but a second PC can free it up as well!


I have 3 PC's.

I find my Xbox as easy to tweak as a PC.

[Ed Oscuro]

Also...the XBox frees up your main PC? That's true, but a second PC can free it up as well!

I have 3 PC's.

I find my Xbox as easy to tweak as a PC.
How so? Software or hardware? I'd like to know!

[esquire]

Also...the XBox frees up your main PC? That's true, but a second PC can free it up as well!

I have 3 PC's.

I find my Xbox as easy to tweak as a PC.
How so? Software or hardware? I'd like to know!

The Xbox is so easy to upgrade, both software (I assume you mean the bios and dashboard) and hardware. If you want more info, go here:
http://xbox-scene.com/

I just don't want to waste my time reiterating what's already there. There are walkthroughs on everything, from opening up the XBOX, flashing the bios, replacing the dashboard, and upgrading the hardware. The site even has the software you need to upgrade. It's no different than upgrading your PC. The only hard stuff is soldering a couple of wires, but's that hard only if you are not adept at those things.

Hydrox, if the XBOX is just a cheap PC, why are you so concerned about voiding a warranty? We are not talking about modding an expensive piece of equipment here. You can get a used XBOX for about $100. Besides, I imagine a good number of people here that own an XBOX are probably are already outside the warranty.

[esquire]

bullshit, i never said that the NEWEST pc's are cheaper than an xbox, BUT, in a few years an old pc (and you can get old pc's for 150 bucks or whatever) will be much more powerful than the xbox, THATS my point.

Of course the PC that I can build today will cost less in a few years from now, but so will the XBOX. :roll: But more importantly, in a few years, who is going to be building/buying an old pc? People are always upgrading their PCs, spending money on a newer video card, more ram, a larger hard drive.


no, i just destroyed your price argument twice, because price does not matter if you have already paid it!!!

Then to be fair for argument's sake, we must also assume that everyone here already has an XBOX as well. If you don't, I have no idea why you are even posting a reply here. That being said, you are really only looking at the price of upgrading the XBOX hard drive. As a PC user, I can testify that I have upgraded my PC's hard drive on many occasions. So I think your argument comes out as a wash.


true!wrong!wrong

pc's are equaly portable as a console, pc's are NOT big towers, they can be, but they don't have to, you can make them very very small if you want and design them the way you want to, seems as if you have no knowledge of pc modding at all, i could even mod a pc into a xbox shelf if i want to....

This statement defeats your last argument. You state people already have a PC, so there's no additional expenses. True, but if you have to mod your PC to look like a console, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of not having to expend additional monies? PS, I have built all of my PCs.


and a pc does cost less, as long as you don't buy the newest, and fact is, someday you won't need anything NEAR new to have more power than the xbox.

Again, someday the price of the XBOX will drop in price again. It's already gone from $300 to $150.


not true, sorry, the people that are interested in emulation are exactly the people that HAVE pc's in the same room as their gaming equipment, it's not a problem to connect it to your tv then....

Topic: "Ultimately, the XBOX will be the most popular console, ever!"

Out.

[Anthony1]

People, please understand what I actually meant by this topic!!!!!!


When I talk about the XBOX eventually becoming the most popular console of all time, I'm "REALLY" talking about it becoming the most popular console of all time among a very specific and segmented audience.

That specific and segmented audience being people that:

1. Love the era of the NES, TG-16, Genny and Super NES as well as very late 80's and early 90's Arcade games.

2. Then of the group of people that qualify for point #1, the people among them that know about the fact that an XBOX can be modded and turned into basically a Video Game Jukebox of the History of the late 80's and early 90's video gaming in both the Home and the Arcade.


So this is the specific group of people that I'm talking about. Because, I must say, that if you love the 8-bit and 16-bit gaming era's, both in the home and the arcade, and you have any knowledge whatsoever, about the capabilities of a Modded XBOX being turned into a freaking living and breathing museum of late 80s and early to mid 90's video gaming, then how could you not absolutely fall maddly and deeply in love with the XBOX.

And you also must understand that when I talk about falling maddly and deeply in love with the XBOX, I'm not talking about the XBOX as the General gaming public knows it. I'm strickly talking about the XBOX being a freaking server of classic video games.

Not the retail lineup of the XBOX at Toys R Us.

I'm not talking about how it stacks up with the PS2 in terms of marketing and third parties and crap like that.

I'm talking purely about how the XBOX can provide one with total 8 bit and 16 bit bliss.

If they mod it, put a big hard drive in it, and load it up with every Rom known to man.

Because that is what I did with my XBOX.

and I'm totally and completely in love......

[Avenger]

every time a new generation of systems comes out there are ALWAYS ppl who say "yea man it will never get better than this"...time to wake up and realize IT WILL...anythin the Xbox can do, in 15 or even 5 years, those systems will do...they will be better, faster, and more powerful at doing it also...so if anyone thinks any parts of gaming has reached its peak...be gladly mistaken :P

[GaijinPunch]

These posts got too fucking long to read. I think everyone, especially Anthony1, is missing a huge point (unless it was mentioned somewhere past halfway through the thread) --- the next generation of consoles, and likely every generation from here on out, will have emulation on it of some sort. Even if there's no HD, it'll be there... you can guarantee it.

In that sense, the Xbox will only be cool until the next thing can emulate it better, faster.

[Ed Oscuro]

How so? Software or hardware? I'd like to know!

The Xbox is so easy to upgrade, both software (I assume you mean the bios and dashboard) and hardware. If you want more info, go here:
http://xbox-scene.com/
Neat. However, I think that digging around in your unit is advanced far enough beyond taking your XBox to get modded (nobody has managed to do a wholly software-based install of Linux yet, have they?) that lots of folks won't do it.

The second thing - a major thing - is that with the XBox hardware you're limited to a relatively old motherboard and while you can swap components, I'd assume you're locked in at a certain BUS speed.

The final thing - even if the XBox could be upgraded indefinitely, there's going to be a point where the hassle, fuss, and especially cost of upgrading an XBox is going to be outweighed by the availability of newer consoles that are better in every way (here's hoping for an internal HD on the NeXtBox!) and which are available at a very decent price.

@ GaijinPunch: Yes, I mentioned that. Go me :D

[GaijinPunch]

Sorry, Ed. was tired, and couldn't trudge through all the posts. :)

As for what you can upgrade -- the fastest Xbox's have 128MB RAM, and a 1.4Ghz Celeron processor. They run about $579 at the moment (google friendtech). I'm not sure how many MAME/N64 games it will help, but apprently the combination of upgraded CPU an memory is good if your'e really into emulation.

I'm thinking of picking one up when I move back to the states late this year. I don't want to pay international shipping on that damn thing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Sorry, Ed. was tired, and couldn't trudge through all the posts. :)

As for what you can upgrade -- the fastest Xbox's have 128MB RAM, and a 1.4Ghz Celeron processor. They run about $579 at the moment (google friendtech).
Well, it'll run fine on a TV, but the utility you'll get out of that upgrade is pertty low. Even if that $579 buys you a new XBox upgraded like this, you're paying more than you might find a similar PC on eBay (minus shipping).

[MoreEbolaForYou]

i skimmed this, so i don't even know if it was mentioned..but the raddest thing about the modded xbox is that if you're lazy, you're set. last night i was playing (new) ninja gaiden, got bored with it, pressed 4 buttons to go back to the dasboard, and i was playing blaster master 10 seconds later, continuing a game i started before on the 4th level. i never left my chair.

you could do that on a computer (well except the ninja gaiden part), but my computer doesn't have a 27 inch monitor, and a couch doesn't pull up to my computer desk. that's the whole point.

[Anthony1]

Even if there's no HD, it'll be there... you can guarantee it.

In that sense, the Xbox will only be cool until the next thing can emulate it better, faster.



I don't know about that. The Hard Drive to me is key. The fact that I can put a gigantic freaking hard drive in there, is really really key.


Sure, there will be future systems that will be dramatically more powerfully than the XBOX, and they will be able to emulate even more recent systems, and they will be able to emulate everything even faster, but without a hard drive, I just don't see it being quite the same.

I love the fact that I have every Genesis rom known to man loaded onto my XBOX. I have ever SNES rom known to man loaded onto my XBOX as well. As well as other systems. I would hate to have the emulators and roms on discs, and to have to keep changing discs, etc, etc.

I just like the fact that it is all in my XBOX, and that I don't need to put any disc in the machine.


And in regards to other systems in the future having Hard Drives, well that is definitely up for debate. Microsoft feels that they made a horrible error with the current XBOX, in terms of how people can put in larger hard drives and just copy XBOX games to the Hard Drive, etc, etc. Supposedly that is the reason that they decided against a Hard Drive being in the XBOX 2. Certainly Sony and Nintendo and anybody else that might enter the fray is very aware of that as well.

There may be future consoles with Hard Drives, but something will certainly be done to prevent people from being able to hi-jack them, like they can do now with a XBOX.