Idiots and The Midnight Tiger Guide to Atari 2600 Video Game

[Foxbatslayer]

Once I had read the sordid and narrow minded views of a select group of morons on the subject of The Midnight Tiger Guide to Atari 2600 Video Games I felt compelled to leave a reply. Ok I will be the first to admit that there are some small errors contained within the book but the way some people were tearing it apart for no reason showed how limited some people truly are. Firstly the book is not pretentious in any way nor does it make grand claims or attempt to change a readers life for it is simply a personal review guide for the masses of games that 2600 boasts. Secondly if the idiots who complained about the book had bothered to read the back of it, it clearly states that the reviews are the authors personal viewpoints and he says that he expects others to DISAGREE with his views. He clearly leaves it up to the individual to make their mind up with the reviews being a simple guide as to what to expect of the games in question. Thirdly the main complaint was no pics, so what? The ABC to the VCS had no pics either but I didn't hear everyone tearing it apart over that small fact. Fourthly some of the limited intelligence complained of one parargraph reviews. Seems to me that they never bothered to read all of it for some reviews are bigger than others and anyway what would you expect from a pocket review guide? Lastly the errors were not life threatening and the ComaVid being a German company is nothing new for I was first told it was German too along with several others. I think that people should cut the guy some serious slack for the book attempts to help others in understadning whjat games are out there. Perhaps those who complain the loudest are the ones who feel the most hard done by for he could have beat them to a good idea.

[digitalpress]

Am I late to the party AGAIN?

Was there something about this book on these forums somewhere previously? I haven't seen that thread. I'm a little daft, I didn't even know about the BOOK you're referring to!

So someone... point me, please?

[gamergary]

https://www.atari2600.com/cgi-bin/cp/cp-app.cgi?usr=6063545&rnd=3902077&pg=store&sub_pg=prod&ref=6519

[digitalpress]

Thanks! When did this come out? I'm really out of the loop. I'll buy my copy this week.

[Cav]

Am I late to the party AGAIN?

Was there something about this book on these forums somewhere previously? I haven't seen that thread. I'm a little daft, I didn't even know about the BOOK you're referring to!

So someone... point me, please?




http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31634

[zmweasel]

Once I had read the sordid and narrow minded views of a select group of morons on the subject of The Midnight Tiger Guide to Atari 2600 Video Games I felt compelled to leave a reply.

I assume I fall into your "select group," as mine was the harshest post about that horrendous "book."


Ok I will be the first to admit that there are some small errors contained within the book but the way some people were tearing it apart for no reason showed how limited some people truly are.

"Small" errors? I can easily find a typographical or factual error on almost every one of the "book's" 180 pages. And the author's mention of Duke Nukem as a real game instead of an April Fool's joke is a damning mistake.


Firstly the book is not pretentious in any way nor does it make grand claims or attempt to change a readers life for it is simply a personal review guide for the masses of games that 2600 boasts.

The lack of pretension is nice, but the lack of knowledge isn't.


Secondly if the idiots who complained about the book had bothered to read the back of it, it clearly states that the reviews are the authors personal viewpoints and he says that he expects others to DISAGREE with his views. He clearly leaves it up to the individual to make their mind up with the reviews being a simple guide as to what to expect of the games in question.

It's not that I disagree with his viewpoints; it's that his viewpoints are often indecipherable.


Thirdly the main complaint was no pics, so what? The ABC to the VCS had no pics either but I didn't hear everyone tearing it apart over that small fact.

That's because Leonard provided clear and concise descriptions of the games mentioned therein.


Fourthly some of the limited intelligence complained of one parargraph reviews. Seems to me that they never bothered to read all of it for some reviews are bigger than others and anyway what would you expect from a pocket review guide?

Yes, some reviews are longer than others, but every one is a single paragraph long. And at that length, I expect clear and concise reviews, not typo-riddled gibberish.


Lastly the errors were not life threatening and the ComaVid being a German company is nothing new for I was first told it was German too along with several others.

I never said they were "life-threatening," but certainly unwelcome in a book for which I paid cold, hard cash.


I think that people should cut the guy some serious slack for the book attempts to help others in understadning whjat games are out there.

The book might attempt to help others, but the author is wholly unqualified to provide that help.


Perhaps those who complain the loudest are the ones who feel the most hard done by for he could have beat them to a good idea.

There were books about the 2600 library twenty years ago, so it's not a matter of being "beaten to a good idea." I slammed the book because it's a waste of time and money.

And since you personally know the author, could you ask him what the hell the title is supposed to mean?

-- Z.

[rolenta]

The ABC to the VCS had no pics either but I didn't hear everyone tearing it apart over that small fact.

The 1st edition of ABC To The VCS, which contained 300 pages worth of text (reduced to 150 pages), cost $8 while Midnight Tiger costs $20.

The 2nd edition of ABC To The VCS, which will be available once I get Ralph Baer's book out of the way, will contain over 400 screen shots.

In addition, The Midnight Tiger boasts to be "The Complete Guide to Atari 2600 Video Games". It's not complete so it shouldn't say it is.

[Sniderman]

Several of the people who criticized the book are professionals in the videogame/entertainment journalism field - if there can be claimed to be such an animal. And since these professionals had legitimate concerns and criticisms of another "professional" volume, I think their opinions should carry more weight than the "morons" you seem to classify them as.

Bluntly, if Leonard and Zach say the book is lacking, you damn well better believe the book is lacking. Take their advice and try to improve the book for Volume 2 rather than coming here guns-ablazin'.

And if you REALLY want some abuse, go to AtariAge (www.atariage.com) and ask the members there to do a book review. After all, those folks are the HARDCORE 2600 collectors and should be your target audience. However, those guys know the 2600 system, cart releases, protos, EVERYTHING ABOUT THE ATARI backwards and forwards, and they won't cotton to ANY errors in facts about their favorite system. So, let them have a gander at what's been published.

I daresay they won't be too impressed either.

[Kid Ice]

1. That book got very little attention here. So little that Joe didn't even notice the thread about it.

2. I didn't find the criticism to be incredibly harsh until zmweasel's post. So we're talking what, one or two people here?

3. I always like it when a person IN THEIR FIRST POST rants about what idiots we are. Is your single post going to make us "not idiots"?

4. How exactly can one have a "sordid" view? You're not the writer of this book, are you?

5. Regardless of your child-like, inappropriate, and totally uncalled-for ranting, I am still looking forward to picking up this book. I am interested in what anyone who has played 600 Atari games has to say about it.

[ManekiNeko]

To be honest, I thought the folks who commented on the book were just a little too nasty about it. If I were to write a comprehensive guide to, say, the Nintendo Entertainment System, I would hope that everyone here would show a little mercy and point out the errors I'd made, rather than grabbing me by the back of my neck and rubbing my nose in them.

At the same time, there's something to be said for carefully proofreading and fact-checking a book you've written before it's published.

JR

[Ed Oscuro]

Why is this such a big issue? Aren't there tons of revisionists out there rewriting US history in foreign and domestic affairs, after all ("revisionist" is a term from the prewar period, roughly the '30s I believe, so the idea is nothing new)? Yes, but there's also lots of REAL scholarship out there to help keep the tide of lazy or politically blinded historians at bay.

With the ongoing cataloging of the interactive entertainment industry's history, the volume of material is low enough that every bad book can create tar waves of disinformation that people really shouldn't have to argue over later, but will because this stuff moves slowly and tends to stick. Some poor fellow (could be myself) will find himself arguing something that's wrong and won't know that he's out of his depth, because he trusted the author. I can't very well respect people who go and publish books with tons of errors on issues the gurus on Digital Press, Atari Age and elsewhere have answered more or less definitively, things that any expert should be expected to know. It's easy to write an erroneous post, and easy to correct it. Writing a book means you're either knowledgeable or have overestimated your ability, and that sounds far too much like the definition of arrogance for my liking.

Finally, scholarly pursuits are not for emotional pansies who can't take criticism. I love reading Zach's stuff, and I can take barbs if they are caringly written and there is a thread of sincerity, rather than defensive outbursts (a note to folks who may or may not be experts who are mystified and enraged by the scholar's barbs). This first post is furthermore a bad credit to the author (if indeed somebody else has written it). To quote a XBox-Net rant on Tool Fans, "most bands don't let their roadies get this ugly." If you think Zach's an arse, just remember that he does this for a living, and I'd get mad if I was one of the few sane voices getting drowned out by the horde, too. I think he does pretty well in restraining himself, in light of that :P

I'm all for rebuilding bridges between the author and the community, but if one is mediocre or full of hot air (who me?) then one has no business expecting kudos for a job well done badly, especially on such an important issue as the history of gaming. That might sound terribly silly with today's news, but if folks who care don't take up this issue, nobody will. There's untold thousands closely watching and recording world events, but the number of folks entrusted with the history of our favored industry is small.

[brykasch]

Well to me, I almost have to think this may be the writer himself, looking at various places to find reivews of his book, and found one here and didn't like it. I think crticism should be taken and listened to. If you really want to have a good book, that people will enjoy and buy, you need to listen to people in the know and what they think. They aren't just talking out of their a** just to be snide. Any book on a system must have screenshots. you could easily have screenshots for most of the titles, or scans of boxes, etc, people use these guides as resource material, and in some cases price guides. I shudder to think if someone cost someone big money in a transaction because of error filled information in a book. I know its not easy to get everything perfect, but if you are writing a book on the 2600 go to the main sites and put the word out there and I am sure you would get tons of people willing to help you with info. Now I haven't read the book myself, but to me it seems like it simply could have been better executed pertaining to info and other things. Maybe in a second edition they can rectify it. Now an NES book I would love.

[Ed Oscuro]

Any book on a system must have screenshots.
It was mentioned that Leonard's book didn't have any screenshots but was well recieved. Besides that I agree with you :)

I think it would be rare for somebody to waste a bunch of money on a purchasing decision based off an entry in the book, but the idea that bad ideas circulating isn't a good thing is of concern...

[Flack]

Obviously the problem is with the intended audience. You can't write a definitive guide on a subject and then try and sell it to people who know more about the subject than you do. If you try that, people will pick you apart everytime. If the book is intended for newcomers to the collecting scene, then that's one thing. But by advertising itself as the end-all book to Atari information, people are going to expect perfection. I wasn't aware of Doom being listed but that's a damning error.

[Ed Oscuro]

You can't write a definitive guide on a subject and then try and sell it to people who know more about the subject than you do.
A problem with us lovely people? I never! LOL - but that is a great, concise way of putting it. I think there's room for anybody with good writing and investigative skills to get some information out there if the get the community to help them, but in this case it doesn't look like the author tried very hard in that respect.