PSX vs SCD Lunars

[TomMage]

The two Lunar games on Sega CD were two of my favorites. I also have them for PSX (those expensive so called "complete" games). But........ One of the things I liked about the games on SCD was the "adult humor". Such as Leo saying "I know a good man when I see one", then Ruby says "I'll bet you do.........." And Ruby saying "Time for your eye exam, I'm NOT a cat". When I started the game (Eternal Blue) on PSX I think these conversations were missing? How about the rest of the game, have they "toned it down?" Lunar Silver Star, played the entire SCD version, the PSX just messed with, noticed music was different, I liked the SCD version better. Any comments from people that have played all 4 games/versions, on SCD and PSX?

Tom

[Jorpho]

(Don't forget the GBA version.)

[TomMage]

(Don't forget the GBA version.)

Did not know about that one, not into handhelds (someone buy this dang sealed GBA SP I have wasting away here). What is the GBA version like, does it resemble the PSX or SCD version? And which game, Silver Star or Eternal Blue?

Tom

[Azazel]

It's like a port of the first one. I've heard it's not that great. The also changed the battles a little bit and you don't move around on the screen and it looks like most other RPG battles.

I've played through the Sega cd versino and played about 1/3 of the PSX versions. Barring the improved graphics and FMV the originials are much better on the Sega cd. Part of the problems with the PSX version is they just reused parts of the Sega cd translated scripts and didnt' translate parts of the remake. This has been talked about to death at other sites so I'm not going to go into great detail about it.

Don't forget the Gamegear and Saturn import only Lunar Magic School.

[TomMage]

[quote="Azazel"]It's like a port of the first one. I've heard it's not that great. The also changed the battles a little bit and you don't move around on the screen and it looks like most other RPG battles.

That rignt there turns me off, I love the aninmated battles, Jean "dancing" her way up to attack etc.

This has been talked about to death at other sites so I'm not going to go into great detail about it.

Where would that be?

quote]

[Azazel]

Mostly on some Lunar mesage boards as well as some rom translation sites.

[Blackjax]

Silver Star Story was, in my opinion, lots better on the PSX...

However...

Eternal Blue complete had to be one of the biggest disappointments I ever had in my gaming career. Not only was it late late late late late (in typical working designs style), WD screwed with the game too much. They unnecessarily ramped up the difficulty in the wrong places, and there were an infuriating number of battles - and the enemies on the screen were impossible to avoid in 99% of the cases.

And the voices in battle.... if i had to hear Leo scream "I SAVED THIS FOR YOU, INFIDEL!!!!" i woulda thrown the game out the window. Then I find out during the epilogue you can turn battle voices off. Argh. and for the love of god I hope they make the little dragon they use sound like Darth Vader next time. Ruby had the most annoying game voice in history - that wasn't changed from the Sega CD version tho...

They shouldn't have increased the resolution on the anime scenes. they claim they ran them through a low pass filter to reduce artifacts, but some of them still look absolutely horrible.

All in all, the SegaCD version is far superior in every way except for the kickass extras you get with the PSX one

[Chooky]

I agree with pretty much everything Blackjax says. I've been a Lunar fan since the beginning, and I love the games, but the PSX version of Eternal Blue was crap. The anime scenes looked like streaming video, a lot of the backgrounds were lifted straight from the original, and (like the Silver Star) the music was much worse. The thing that really killed it though was the tweaked difficulty. The enemies were fine, but the bosses were WAY TOO POWERFUL. I had to go through the Blue Dragon Cave three freaking times, killing every single enemy, just so I could be strong enough to take on the boss. The Japanese version was actually supposed to have really easy bosses, so Working Designs decided to do some half-assed tweaking and ended up nearly ruining the game. :hmm:

[TomMage]

The Japanese version was actually supposed to have really easy bosses, so Working Designs decided to do some half-assed tweaking and ended up nearly ruining the game. :hmm:[/quote]

Sounds like Vay, heard overseas battles very easy so they made them tougher in US version (almost tedious, in fact I remember you had to pretty much just physically attack, had to save all magic points for healing?). Not the best WD game, but still not bad. Popful Mail was great game too. Hey you know what, SCD had a LOT more great RPGs than the N64, winner of my "most dissapointing system" of all time award. Other than Paper Mario (sequel to Super Mario RPG, but please, it looks cute but from what I see can't hold a candle to SMRPG), Quest 64 (kiiddie RPG), and someone says a game that starts with an "A" (sequel to Quest 64), N64 had no real RPGs I think. SCD had not a lot but some darn good ones, Lunars, Shining Force CD, even Heimdall. I think I may replay a few of my SCD games :)

Tom

[Blackjax]

Yeah, I forgot one of the things in my first post I should have put down.

The music... i didn't mind most of it too much, but I can't believe they wrecked one of the best final boss themes in history. Lucia vs Zophar had so much power behind it in the SCD version. I got to Zophar's third form in the PSX version and it just sounded... kinda wimpy.

and with the bosses, the crank up the difficulty on all but one - the one who's supposed to be a royal pain in the arse, Borgon. O_O

Yeesh, i should stop before i go on all day about this.

[Jorpho]

What? Zophar's Domain is named after a character in Lunar?

I never knew that!

[Chooky]

TomMage, I STRONGLY recommend you give Paper Mario another chance. If there is even the slightest bit of love for Mario in your heart, this game could possibly make you explode. There are cameos and in-jokes everywhere, and the writing is suprisingly good. The battle system easily ranks as one of my all-time favorites because it actually requires real twitch skills. Damn that game was so freakin' sweet...*drifts into nostalgic trance*

[Azazel]

Yes Zophar's Domain was named after the Lunar boss. He even said so a few years ago when the first PSX remake wes coming to the US.

Workingdesigns always make the games much harder when they release them over here. The original versions were fine as they were did. If they wanted to make the game harder why don't tey make include a hard mode or something?

I also enjoyed the Random battles much more in the originals, versus beeing abot to see and try to avoid enemy encounter. When you needed to level up or get money in the remake it drove me crazy.

Actually in Vay I generally used Magic for attacking as it generally did more damage when normal attacks. Of course you have to really stock on healing potions or whatever they were called but there pretty cheap to buy.

Popful Mail I could never beat. I ended up playing the PC Engine import version and it's gamplay is quite different and much easier for that matter.

Dungeon Explorer and Dark Wizard weer also pretty good.

[Blackjax]

Did they ramp up the difficulty on Silpheed: The Lost Planet?

As much as I love that game, I'd import it if the Japanese version was easier.

The US version isn't just hard, that thing is MEAN!!!

[Daria]

The two Lunar games on Sega CD were two of my favorites. I also have them for PSX (those expensive so called "complete" games). But........ One of the things I liked about the games on SCD was the "adult humor". Such as Leo saying "I know a good man when I see one", then Ruby says "I'll bet you do.........." And Ruby saying "Time for your eye exam, I'm NOT a cat". When I started the game (Eternal Blue) on PSX I think these conversations were missing? How about the rest of the game, have they "toned it down?" Lunar Silver Star, played the entire SCD version, the PSX just messed with, noticed music was different, I liked the SCD version better. Any comments from people that have played all 4 games/versions, on SCD and PSX?

Tom

Ummm those quotes were in the PSX version.
________
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[kainemaxwell]

I have the Sega CD of Lunar: SS and played the PSX version and enjoyed them both. Lunar: EB I only have the PSX version so I really couldn't compare much. Only boss offhand I really had problems with was that flower boss that kidnaps most of Jean's caravan.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, I LOVE Lunar for the PSX -- both of them. Not only are they nice collector's item but they were really fun to play as well, and the soundtracks included were nice. I never played them on the Sega CD but I have the hint books that Zach wrote for both of the re-releases and he explains what was changed between them, and it sounds like the PSX is still the better version. As for the difficulty? What difficulty? :) Honestly, I plowed through those games like they were nothing. Maybe I've just been playing RPG's so long that nothing is a challenge anymore. :D The only problems I had was that Silver Star would lock up on some battles for a unknown reason and that Eternal Blue was a little borring with the normal battles -- I'd just leave them on auto and go do something else during the fight. :o

[zmweasel]

The two Lunar games on Sega CD were two of my favorites. I also have them for PSX (those expensive so called "complete" games).

The "Complete" tag was added by Working Designs because Game Arts stated that the PS1 versions of Silver Star Story and Eternal Blue included storyline and gameplay aspects that hadn't been included in the Sega CD versions for various reasons (20/20 hindsight, technological limitations, not enough development time).

Yeah, SSSC and EBC were pricey, but the former remains Working Designs' best-selling game ever (at about 250,000 units), and the latter sold through roughly 150,000 units. Most folks LOVED the luxury packaging.


But........ One of the things I liked about the games on SCD was the "adult humor". Such as Leo saying "I know a good man when I see one", then Ruby says "I'll bet you do.........." And Ruby saying "Time for your eye exam, I'm NOT a cat". When I started the game (Eternal Blue) on PSX I think these conversations were missing? How about the rest of the game, have they "toned it down?"

As the lead English writer of both PS1 Lunars, I assure you that the "adult humor" wasn't toned down. If anything, we had to restrain ourselves from going overboard with the sexual themes.

The biggest difference between the humor of the Sega CD and PlayStation translations is that I tried to keep the use of instantly dated, fourth-wall-breaking pop-culture references to a minimum.

On the occasions when I did indulge in a reference, I generally used catchphrases instead of name-dropping (i.e., the Shannen Doherty reference in the Sega CD Lunar). Catchphrases are much better because they're somewhat subtle, and they're mildly amusing even if you don't "get" the reference.

I do wish we'd taken out the anti-gay "joke" you mention, as it was wholly unnecessary and downright hateful.

I kept the sections of the Sega CD translations that Victor particularly liked or that I felt I couldn't improve upon, but the text in both PS1 games is overwhelmingly brand-new.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I've played through the Sega cd versino and played about 1/3 of the PSX versions. Barring the improved graphics and FMV the originials are much better on the Sega cd. Part of the problems with the PSX version is they just reused parts of the Sega cd translated scripts and didnt' translate parts of the remake. This has been talked about to death at other sites so I'm not going to go into great detail about it.

Actually, I'd LOVE you to go into detail, as I'm wholly unaware of any "parts of the remake" that weren't translated.

And how is the reuse of certain sections of the Sega CD translation a "problem"? As I explained in a previous post, when the Sega CD text applied AND couldn't be improved upon, we used it. Even the reused text was occasionally tweaked for grammar and/or length, however, as we had MUCH more text-space in the PS1 versions.

-- Z.

[kainemaxwell]

This is one those topics that's gonna make me go play them again. ^_^

Plus I loved the outtakes at the end of Lunar 1 & 2.
Dang, i can't remember my fav ones now by Ramsus...

[BigBoogie]

What a Cowinkydink. I just finished the psx version last night (no lie). I completed both on my SCD years ago, and all in all I would have to vote for the psx version. After reading the above, I dont know if im gonna do Eternal blue. Is it worth it?

[Daria]

As the lead English writer of both PS1 Lunars...

I... I love you!

Ok.. fangirl isms aside now... *coughs*

I dunno I generally thought the PSX games to be an improvment over the Sega CD versions. It's a shame Ubisoft butchered Lunar Legends however. (They way they had Luna screaming at Nall and Nash to get along when they didn't even bother to have them argue was confusing... she came off as a complete bitch for the first part of the game) I suppose it was suppose to be more literal translation but ugh... it had none of the flair of the WD's versions. Some of my favorite RPGs are those with scripts that are entertaining to read, afterall that's what you'll spend most of your time doing in an RPG.

I also didn't think the adult humor was toned down in the least, next to Knights of Xentar Lunar EBC was one of the most perverted RPGs I've ever played. But you know... tastefully perverted in a funny way. :P
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[zmweasel]

I... I love you!

You just made my year. Thank you. :)


I dunno I generally thought the PSX games to be an improvment over the Sega CD versions. It's a shame Ubisoft butchered Lunar Legends however

I was very disappointed with Lunar Legends. I tried to get involved with the localization, but Ubi never got back to me. I would've done it for free, just to keep it faithful to the WD style.


Some of my favorite RPGs are those with scripts that are entertaining to read, afterall that's what you'll spend most of your time doing in an RPG.

Yep! In particular, I tried to insure that every NPC was entertaining and/or informative. Some of the best dialogue in the PS1 Lunars is uttered by the most out-of-the-way NPCs, during very specific timeframes (after/before certain events), to reward the most hardcore players.


I also didn't think the adult humor was toned down in the least, next to Knights of Xentar Lunar EBC was one of the most perverted RPGs I've ever played. But you know... tastefully perverted in a funny way. :P

You're comparing the EBC script to Knights of Xentar?! Now you've REALLY made my year. :) Victor's weakness was potty humor, and my weakness was sexual humor, and our respective localizations reflected that.

-- Z.

[Azazel]

I've played through the Sega cd versino and played about 1/3 of the PSX versions. Barring the improved graphics and FMV the originials are much better on the Sega cd. Part of the problems with the PSX version is they just reused parts of the Sega cd translated scripts and didnt' translate parts of the remake. This has been talked about to death at other sites so I'm not going to go into great detail about it.

Actually, I'd LOVE you to go into detail, as I'm wholly unaware of any "parts of the remake" that weren't translated.

And how is the reuse of certain sections of the Sega CD translation a "problem"? As I explained in a previous post, when the Sega CD text applied AND couldn't be improved upon, we used it. Howver, even the reused text was occasionally tweaked for grammar and/or length, as we had MUCH more text-space in the PS1 versions.

-- Z.

Well it's a problem if something is changed in the remake and you used the script from the original versions and it doesn't make sense/flow well with everything that is going on at the time in the story. I think at least one of the things I remember being mentioned was something in one of the cave where it had some script that was used from the Sega cd version and it was something that was changed, or altered in the remake. It might of been that cave that leads to the magic city but I don't remember anymore. I did a quick check and I couldn't find the old messages that went into greater detail about this and cited specific examples of waht was wrong or maybe could of been better. Reusing some of the script if something hasn't changed from the original to the remake I have no problems with.

Also why in the Sega cd version did you not use a lower case font? Was there some technical problems that caused this or something else? I know they at least had english Capital font that encluded in Bios. I think at least Vay had a lower font as well but I haven't touched that in many years.

[Chooky]

Crap, I totally forgot Zach haunts these boards. :embarrassed: Anyways, though I may have a few nitpick-y problems with EBC, I still absolutely LOVE the Lunar games. I used to be able to finish the SCD version of SS in a single day because I knew the game so well. And I had to go on a sort of epic quest myself just to track down a copy of EB (I'm too tired to post it now). If it weren't for the Lunar games, I honestly don't think I would have ever gotten into RPG's. Thanks for all the great memories. :)

</fanboy ranting>

[SoulBlazer]

Indeed. One of the things I LOVE about the Lunar games is the great convos you can have with NPC's if you take the time to TALK to them, more then once, during the game. I still have a laughing fit to this day when I think of the William Shatner joke from SSC. :D

[zmweasel]

Well it's a problem if something is changed in the remake and you used the script from the original versions and it doesn't make sense/flow well with everything that is going on at the time in the story.

That would indeed be a problem, but as I mentioned, we only used the Sega CD text when appropriate, and rewrote any sections of it that didn't make sense or didn't flow.


I think at least one of the things I remember being mentioned was something in one of the cave where it had some script that was used from the Sega cd version and it was something that was changed, or altered in the remake.

You're thinking of the White Dragon Cave in SSSC, which has a text error in that it refers to an element of the Sega CD version that was removed from the PlayStation version.

I mentioned this mistake in the SSSC hintbook, although I don't recall if I explained WHY it happened: an older textfile was inadvertently used instead of the updated and rewritten textfile.

I took (and take) full responsibility for the error, although I certainly wasn't thrilled with the performance of WD's "quality-assurance department," a group of employees taking home the newest build each weekend and pretending to play through it.


I did a quick check and I couldn't find the old messages that went into greater detail about this and cited specific examples of waht was wrong or maybe could of been better.

Certainly, there are parts of both translations that could have been better. I'm forever second-guessing my work. But do I think a random Web-forum poster/whiner could have done a better job than me? Hell, no.


Also why in the Sega cd version did you not use a lower case font? Was there some technical problems that caused this or something else? I know they at least had english Capital font that encluded in Bios. I think at least Vay had a lower font as well but I haven't touched that in many years.

I didn't work on the Sega CD translation, just the strategy guide, so I'm not sure why that version was all-uppercase.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Eternal Blue complete had to be one of the biggest disappointments I ever had in my gaming career. Not only was it late late late late late (in typical working designs style), WD screwed with the game too much. They unnecessarily ramped up the difficulty in the wrong places, and there were an infuriating number of battles - and the enemies on the screen were impossible to avoid in 99% of the cases.

So you were disappointed with EBC because it shipped "late," whatever that means. Later than what? Are you disappointed when you play ten-year-old games because you're playing them so "late"?

And what do you consider the "wrong places" for increased difficulty?

I also don't recall there being an exorbitant amount of combat, but again, it's been several years since I played the game for a considerable length of time.


And the voices in battle.... if i had to hear Leo scream "I SAVED THIS FOR YOU, INFIDEL!!!!" i woulda thrown the game out the window. Then I find out during the epilogue you can turn battle voices off. Argh.

So you're disappointed with EBC because you didn't figure out a sound option until you reached the epilogue?

The sound bites in the Japanese version were just as repetitive, so if you're going to complain about 'em, blame Game Arts, not WD.


and for the love of god I hope they make the little dragon they use sound like Darth Vader next time. Ruby had the most annoying game voice in history - that wasn't changed from the Sega CD version tho...

In fact, Ruby's voice WAS brought down a notch in the PlayStation version, because we knew she was too whiny in the Sega CD version.


They shouldn't have increased the resolution on the anime scenes. they claim they ran them through a low pass filter to reduce artifacts, but some of them still look absolutely horrible.

I agree that the anime scenes could've and should've looked better. To Victor's credit, he tried a LOT of compression methods, but he chose the wrong one.


All in all, the SegaCD version is far superior in every way except for the kickass extras you get with the PSX one

I wholly disagree with you, but that's probably to be expected. :)

-- Z.

[kainemaxwell]

Too bad no option to shut Ruby or Nall up was explored. :P

[Azazel]

Thanks for clearing up the part about the White Dragon Cave. So many people have commented and asked about that in the past. Most of the people I remember commenting on that were people that know Japanese pretty well and played through both the US and import versions.

I think the 2 things myself that I've never liked much about Workingdesigns games was that most of them they made them harder in the US versions. Most of them I didn't have much of a problem with. I think Exile 2 on the PC Engine/Turbografx 16 cd was the worst of them. I could never get past that Waterfall boss, and I even did a lot of excess leveling up. I had to play through the import version which is a cakewalk. I can maybe understand to a certain degree cause of how easy it was but I think WD went to far with that title. I know some things you had to change for the US version like the Japanese version your items stuff was called Drugs and in US version you called them tonics. I know some of the religious theme had to be changed to a certain degree cause you couldn't get way with some of that stuff back than.

I think the other thing I could probably do without is some of the jokes and pop references or whatever you want to call them. Like I got hemroids or something along those lines. I know most of those were just put in as part of the towny dialogue but I could probably live without them. A few of them were kind out of place from what I remember but I haven't touched a WD title in many years.

I generally kind of liked the way that Hudson translated someof the Turbo grafx 16 cd titles. You know like Ys 1-3 Dragon Slayer Legend of Heroes 1. I could probably like without the dialogue in Dragon Slayer beening written in a middle age dialogue kind of like Dragon Quest. I compared the Japanese version to the US version and other than the names it was mostly unchanged. I found only one line changed for as long as I played which was something minor like the dangerous monsters outside of town was changed to slimes or something like that and even that is pretty minor.

But I guess you can never make eveyone happy.

[Daria]

I compared the Japanese version to the US version and other than the names it was mostly unchanged. I found only one line changed for as long as I played which was something minor like the dangerous monsters outside of town was changed to slimes or something like that and even that is pretty minor.

I'm sorry for being confused... but why is change a bad thing? If we all wanted the unblemished Japanese scripts we could simply play the Japanese versions. Personally I like it when a company takes the time to re-work a script, as long as they do it well, shows me that they actually care about what they're wiritng as much as I care about reading it.

And I'm sorry for a game as bland as the original Dragon Warrior was the olde English script helped it tremendously. It gave the game a style fitting of the time period it was set in. And sometimes name changes are good as well... some Japanese names just plain suck in English. Again using DW as an example, The sound of Loto makes me cringe, Edrick is much more epic sounding and same goes for Gawelin as opposed to the oddly out of place modern sounding Laura.

Haven't played Dragon Slayer (well except the Japanese Genesis version) so I couldn't say whether the script fit it or not.

Edit: And I MUST be weird because Ruby's voice didn't bother me at all in the PSX version. But then I normally like voice acting most people seem to hate... Tales of Destiny (Eternia) for example. Except for when Meredy speaks in english I thought the voices fit the characters very well.
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[TomMage]

TomMage, I STRONGLY recommend you give Paper Mario another chance. If there is even the slightest bit of love for Mario in your heart, this game could possibly make you explode. There are cameos and in-jokes everywhere, and the writing is suprisingly good. The battle system easily ranks as one of my all-time favorites because it actually requires real twitch skills. Damn that game was so freakin' sweet...*drifts into nostalgic trance*

Oh I'm not saying Paper Mario is not a good game, I'm just saying I don't think it's as good as Super Mario RPG for SNES. It's hands down the best RPG for N64 (and IS a good game :)). I don't count the Zeldas as true RPGs by the way. They are good also, no Metroid for N64 either far as I know, hence N64 my most disappointing system of all time.

Thanks,
Tom

[TomMage]

Indeed. One of the things I LOVE about the Lunar games is the great convos you can have with NPC's if you take the time to TALK to them, more then once, during the game. I still have a laughing fit to this day when I think of the William Shatner joke from SSC. :D

Oh absolutely :) I would go back to nearly every town after something significant happened in the game, talk to everyone again (plus of course talk to them more than once each individual time too). These are some sweet games, RARELY will I replay a game since I have hundreds of games I have not played yet but am replaying SCD Eternal Blue right now. The humor is FANTASTIC ;) Might have to replay Popful Mail too, I loved that game also.

Tom

[TomMage]

Too bad no option to shut Ruby or Nall up was explored. :P

Though I have played only the SCD versions of the games all the way through I loved ALL the voices, including Ruby :)

Tom

[TomMage]

Workingdesigns always make the games much harder when they release them over here. The original versions were fine as they were did. If they wanted to make the game harder why don't tey make include a hard mode or something?.

Personally I enjoy the added challenge :) There ain't no RPG I can't beat!!!!! Well the Lufia 2 ancient dungeon I haven't beat yet (did beat the normal game). Got to bottom of L2 Ancient twice but was unable to beat the boss, you only get like 4 attacks. That is probably the ultimate RPG challenge.

Tom

[TomMage]

I do wish we'd taken out the anti-gay "joke" you mention, as it was wholly unnecessary and downright hateful.

Well I did not think it was anti-gay really. I thought it was funny. It's a game, poking fun at Leo, not putting down gays. Fantastic games, I forgot some of the great humor, having good time replaying SCD EB now.

Tom

[Azazel]

I compared the Japanese version to the US version and other than the names it was mostly unchanged. I found only one line changed for as long as I played which was something minor like the dangerous monsters outside of town was changed to slimes or something like that and even that is pretty minor.

I'm sorry for being confused... but why is change a bad thing? If we all wanted the unblemished Japanese scripts we could simply play the Japanese versions. Personally I like it when a company takes the time to re-work a script, as long as they do it well, shows me that they actually care about what they're wiritng as much as I care about reading it.

And I'm sorry for a game as bland as the original Dragon Warrior was the olde English script helped it tremendously. It gave the game a style fitting of the time period it was set in. And sometimes name changes are good as well... some Japanese names just plain suck in English. Again using DW as an example, The sound of Loto makes me cringe, Edrick is much more epic sounding and same goes for Gawelin as opposed to the oddly out of place modern sounding Laura.

Haven't played Dragon Slayer (well except the Japanese Genesis version) so I couldn't say whether the script fit it or not.

Edit: And I MUST be weird because Ruby's voice didn't bother me at all in the PSX version. But then I normally like voice acting most people seem to hate... Tales of Destiny (Eternia) for example. Except for when Meredy speaks in english I thought the voices fit the characters very well.

I personally don't see anything wrong with Loto. It makes just as much sense as Endrick. Same with the other name you mentioned. There are plenty names in Japanese games that get changed for english releases where there's nothing wrong with the Japanese names. A few of the engish names in games can sound just as bad and sometime worse than the original Japanese versions. Some of the Japanese names are odd and or weird and I kind of like them that way, and they fit well for the games story. I think for Dragon Slayer the Japanese name for the main character was Asteros or something like that and it and it was Logan in the US. Not really much of an improvement. The voices on that version really got on my nerves, and thankfully you can turn them off. Personally you can have just as good a Dragon Slayer or Dragon Quest script without the old english. Some of the translated roms were translated that way and I think they sound as good or sometimes better than official translations like DQ 1, 2 5 Byuu version and 6 other than some of the grammar and typos that you might run cross.

As for changes I believe some changes are fine but don't go to the extreme. I personally don't need to see lines like Cless you fuck like Tiger or something along those line. Even though that TOP example might be a little extreme. I'll also agree that most literal translations suck, despite what most anime fans say. Like the Final Fantasy 3 translation versus the Final Fantasy 6 retranslation. Most of my issues with changes from Japanese to english version is when they make changes that aren't any better and actually worse from what the actual Japanese script said. Some of these things unless you know enough Japanese you won't really understand and of course you'll never see.

There also is a english Dragon Slayer Legend of Heroes on the MSX. You could get the rom for that if you want. I have no idea what the translation is like but I think it was done by Ocean.

[Azazel]

Workingdesigns always make the games much harder when they release them over here. The original versions were fine as they were did. If they wanted to make the game harder why don't tey make include a hard mode or something?.

Personally I enjoy the added challenge :) There ain't no RPG I can't beat!!!!! Well the Lufia 2 ancient dungeon I haven't beat yet (did beat the normal game). Got to bottom of L2 Ancient twice but was unable to beat the boss, you only get like 4 attacks. That is probably the ultimate RPG challenge.

Tom

Have you tried Exile 2 yet? There's plenty of RPGS out there that I haven't beaten. I'm talking about normal games not extra dungeons that you don't have to play if you don't want to. I know I'll probably never beat Lufia 2 cause of some of the dumb puzzles that were in it.

[TomMage]

[/quote]

Have you tried Exile 2 yet? There's plenty of RPGS out there that I haven't beaten. I'm talking about normal games not extra dungeons that you don't have to play if you don't want to. I know I'll probably never beat Lufia 2 cause of some of the dumb puzzles that were in it.[/quote]

I don't think so? I played one Exile game, on Genesis, it was very disappointing, very few hours to complete it. There is another Exile game (2?)? Lufia 2, you don't have to beat all the puzzles to win the game although I beat most of them. There is one I never could though, supposed to be the toughest puzzle in video games, period. I do everything possible when playing a game, to beat regular L2 took me about 95 hours. Ancient dungeon, well dang, no saves, about 8 hours a shot, then ya die and have to do it all over. Might try again someday though............

Tom

[Azazel]

The Genesis one is the first Exile. The second one was only released on the PC Engine/Turbo Grafx 16 cd and the Japanese PC only. It's like the first one and is fairly short like 3 to 4 hours. The xecond on you get to play as other characters other than Sadler. If you remember the first one game anymore kind of be familiar with the characters. Although if you didn't like the first one you'll probably not like the second one much.

Actually there were a couple of parts in lufia 2 where I had to look at a faq cause I was stuck on a puzzle which you had to get past to proceed in the game. After a while the game just bored me and I said the hell with it. There's better stuff out there I cna spend my time playing. Personally I'd rather play through more games and miss some secrets and stuff like that than spend the time needed to do eveything in a game. There only a few games I spent the time to find all the secrets for myself.

[TomMage]

The Genesis one is the first Exile. The second one was only released on the PC Engine/Turbo Grafx 16 cd
Actually there were a couple of parts in lufia 2 where I had to look at a faq cause I was stuck on a puzzle which you had to get past to proceed in the game. After a while the game just bored me and I said the hell with it. There's better stuff out there I cna spend my time playing. Personally I'd rather play through more games and miss some secrets and stuff like that than spend the time needed to do eveything in a game. There only a few games I spent the time to find all the secrets for myself.

2nd Exile, are you saying PC Engine AND TG16/CD/Duo (ie is there an English release?) While I was not thrilled with the first one it's pretty much because it was too short, game ok. When playing RPGs I want to get at least 20 hours of gameplay. Gosh Ultima V on C128 took me MONTHS, and sometimes I played 13-14 hours straight.

Lufia 2 bored you? Maybe you like more action, I thought the story and characters in L2 were great, I never got bored. DIfferent games for different people of course and to be fair I can find something good in almost any RPG. Try playing the Phantasies from SSI (although I do suggest at least playing on Apple II or C64, IBM CGA is ugly and they didn't make PII for IBM, not sure why) Hope ya aren't "into" graphics, if you are Phantasies have the least of any RPG I've played I think.

Hey looks like you got your "cherry" with one of your latest posts, nice going, takes 200 posts I guess.



Have fun!!
Tom

[kainemaxwell]

Lufia 2 was alot of fun, though some the battles were easy. I expected some them to be tough, not the same toughness as most the ones in Lufia 1, but you get my idea.

[TomMage]

Lufia 2 was alot of fun, though some the battles were easy. I expected some them to be tough, not the same toughness as most the ones in Lufia 1, but you get my idea.

Yup it was. And of course you know Lufia 2 is actually Lufia 1 and the other way around, note the ending to L2, beginning of L1. Battles, I do enjoy a challenge but not a silly challenge, ie just tedious. Games like the early Final Fantasies where you had to discover an enemies weakness to win. And not just physical vs magic attacks, sometimes specific types of magic, in one of the FFs I think there was a "boss" whose weakness changed thoughout battle, fun stuff!!!

Tom

[Azazel]

The Genesis one is the first Exile. The second one was only released on the PC Engine/Turbo Grafx 16 cd
Actually there were a couple of parts in lufia 2 where I had to look at a faq cause I was stuck on a puzzle which you had to get past to proceed in the game. After a while the game just bored me and I said the hell with it. There's better stuff out there I cna spend my time playing. Personally I'd rather play through more games and miss some secrets and stuff like that than spend the time needed to do eveything in a game. There only a few games I spent the time to find all the secrets for myself.

2nd Exile, are you saying PC Engine AND TG16/CD/Duo (ie is there an English release?) While I was not thrilled with the first one it's pretty much because it was too short, game ok. When playing RPGs I want to get at least 20 hours of gameplay. Gosh Ultima V on C128 took me MONTHS, and sometimes I played 13-14 hours straight.

Lufia 2 bored you? Maybe you like more action, I thought the story and characters in L2 were great, I never got bored. DIfferent games for different people of course and to be fair I can find something good in almost any RPG. Try playing the Phantasies from SSI (although I do suggest at least playing on Apple II or C64, IBM CGA is ugly and they didn't make PII for IBM, not sure why) Hope ya aren't "into" graphics, if you are Phantasies have the least of any RPG I've played I think.

Hey looks like you got your "cherry" with one of your latest posts, nice going, takes 200 posts I guess.



Have fun!!
Tom

Yes both Exile games on the Turbo Grafx 16 cd were released in english by Workingdesigns. The series is called XZR in Japan. And yes both only take like 3 or 4 hours to beat.

I don't mind short RPGs myself. There plenty of RPGs that are short and enjoyable. Ys, Xak series come to mind for action RPGs. Most of those are about 4 hour games or so and are very enjoyable and length is just about right. There's also a fair amount of turn based RPGs that are short like Dragon Slayer Legend of Heroes 8 to 10 Hours, Emerald Dragon 10 hours. I'm sure there are other but that's all I can think of at the moment.
Generally when you don't have a lot of time to play games like me you don't have time for those long RPGs and I much prefer something that 30 hours or under. Something like Xenogears I'll never play for example. '

The last kind of long RPG I touched was Startling Odyssey 1 and I can't figure out your suppose to in the second to the last area. I think the last kind of long RPG I finished was Star Breaker. It's one of the few kind of Phantasy Starish game adn is about 35 to 40 hours. It basically takes over 8 different solar system and each one has anywhere between 1 to 8 planet and or space station. It's was relative on the easy side and it didn't require much leveling up. Other than a few bosses it was pretty easy. The last dungeon you have to fight all the bosses again, one on each floor. Plus you have to fight the final 2 bosses Kanon and Alto right after each other without the chance to help and you can't use your Star Breaker on the final guy. I don't mind long games but I like to limit them to something that has something different or something new to offer. And there's not to many of those games that I haevn't at least tried out. There's too much stuff that has the same old battle system and story that I'll easily pass on playing.

I've never been much into PC RPGs. I think I played a few of the Ultima ports on the NES Exodus and Quest of an Avatar, and that is about it. Most of those PC RPGs are so long that I could never put the time into them. I really don't mind graphics in some of those kind of games. I've played some of the MSX ones and enjoyed some of those a lot more.

Personally I found the first Lufia much more enjoyable. It had one kind of bonus dungeon to play but it's probably nothing like the ancient cave or whatever it's called in part 2. I never did all the levels in it. I alsop thought the script was written pretty good compared to other games released at the time and bought to the US.

Your thinking of Final Fantasy 3 on the NES for that thing about the boss's magic defense changing. You basically had to use your scan or whatever the spell/skill to find his weakness cause only one type of magic was effective and normal weapon attacks did only a few HP worth of damge to him. Personally I didn't find that battle to bad. There are some games that are just an exercise in pain cause of horrid battle systems like the 2nd Final Fantasy on the NES. I know how you can abuse the system and even so it's still an exercise in frustration.

[Bugbear]

I don't really like what WD did to the games. I was 15 when I got the first Lunar game, and that's right on the marketing target. I was horrified by some of the sexual themes and jokes.

I appreciate the fact that they brought it to the US, but they were completely infantile with the all power they had. For how much they kept saying they liked the game, it's like they purposely disgraced it for their own entertainment.

[Nintega Grafx-16]

LOL

Don't tell me you guys are complaining about WD's localization. Since when the Wapanese Naruto cosplayers invaded this forum eh?

http://th01.deviantart.com/fs30/300W/i/2008/125/7/d/The_Worst_Naruto_Cosplay_ever_by_GalaxeonLittleCom et.jpg

[Ryaan1234]

I don't really like what WD did to the games. I was 15 when I got the first Lunar game, and that's right on the marketing target. I was horrified by some of the sexual themes and jokes.

I appreciate the fact that they brought it to the US, but they were completely infantile with the all power they had. For how much they kept saying they liked the game, it's like they purposely disgraced it for their own entertainment.
I have some advice for you, Bugbear:

1. Click on Nintega Grafx-16's name in is reply that he made calling you a "Wapanese Naruto cosplayer"

2. Click "View public profile"

3. Look to the middle right side of that page and click "Add Nintega Grafx-16 to your ignore list".

I'd suggest that others follow these steps as well, but Bugbear should know because he insulted her for no apparent reason. She's new and she probably doesn't know yet that she can ignore other users.

[JimmyDean]

LOL

Don't tell me you guys are complaining about WD's localization. Since when the Wapanese Naruto cosplayers invaded this forum eh?

http://th01.deviantart.com/fs30/300W/i/2008/125/7/d/The_Worst_Naruto_Cosplay_ever_by_GalaxeonLittleCom et.jpg

He just joined DP! Cut him a break!

[Nintega Grafx-16]

I have some advice for you, Bugbear:

1.Click on Nintega Grafx-16's name in is reply that he made calling you a "Wapanese Naruto cosplayer"

2. Click "View public profile"

3. Look to the middle right side of that page and click "Add Nintega Grafx-16 to your ignore list".

I'd suggest that others follow these steps as well, but Bugbear should know because he insulted her for no apparent reason. She's new and she probably doesn't know yet that she can ignore other users.

Wambulance much? The English versions of the Lunar games are just fine. Anyone who thinks the translation is too "Americanized" needs to move to Japan.

[Arkhan]

It really depends on my mood.

Presentation wise, the PSX ones are better. The cutscenes are much nicer (kind of since the EBC ones are lifted), the music is better..... its all better. Even the packaging. ..But that was it's purpose really.... to surpass the sega cd one's system limitations and give an even better experience to the same story. So what you get is basically what you had before, expanded! Retold/refined!

Some of the "betterness" is left up to preference though. There are some songs in Sega CD that I like more than PSX ones. and vice versa.

The Sega CD ones though, have that original, nostalgic, "this is where it started" charm that makes them really great. The music in both games is perfectly good. It's some of the best Sega CD music. The cutscenes are alright in the first one (sorta limited and all in some scenes), and the ones in the second game are great. Really nicely done.

I don't think you can really go wrong with either of them, and I think comparing them is difficult. The things you could "fault" the Sega CD one for, were only seen as faults after the PSX ones came out. Before then, it was the norm.

I will say that I think in the end I prefer the Sega CD lunar 2 over the PSX remake. Couldn't totally explain why to you, but that is how I feel.

and, wtf is wrong with Ruby and Nall? I got the PSP remakeremake and was pissed that nall sounds like a drunk high school kid.

Oh and as for the potty humor/perversions. I got the games on launch day. I was in 5th grade, and thought it was all pretty funny. Like the part where the house explodes and if you examine the dresser its all "MAN THATS SOME STRONG WOOD". I still giggle about that.

I guess it all depends who you tell the jokes to. :D

the GBA remake was a joke. I hate that one. It's just a watered down gimped up PSX remake.

[Bugbear]

Well, I like his avatar, so I'll give him another chance. This sure is an active forum! 0_o

Anyway, I'm just had to start a new game on Lunar SS on the Sega CD because of some fiasco about moving, and when I'm done I'll move on to number two. I find the S CD versions have a more old-school feel I enjoy.

[Arkhan]

well they should have that old school feel since they are old school! :D


The thing I miss in the PSX ones most is the huge ass ALL CAPS FONT ON SOLID MESSAGE WINDOWS.

[AbnormalMapping]

As the lead English writer of both PS1 Lunars....

Sir.

You were the hero of a kid fighting to survive abuse. I was surrounded by cockroaches thick as autumn leaves. I was molested by women watching over me, sexually harrassed by strangers who thought my fear of being touched was a joke, and my father told me that heaven was as close as a suicide. I had no real friends, because nobody could explain what friendship was, and because nobody would tell me why I couldn't have the medicine I needed to gain any self control, to be like everyone around me.

They didn't even tell me such medicine existed.

I wanted more than anything, to do the right thing for everyone and just be dead...

Except, I had an escape from Hell. A spinning disc, a few musical notes and a curiously unspoken "Sega" were my gateway to a world where just talking to people was it's own reward. A thousand stories hidden right in front of me.

I hunted down every single last one.

Blockbuster video never got their game back.

Do you know what you did? ( Besides bankrupt me, in late fees? )

You corrupted me.

I took the philosophy of seeking out the hidden stories in people as literal, learned to tell a joke, and somehow, someway, this victim of abuse turned into a stand up comedian, and gave the greatest, most beautiful girl in the world, herself a victim of abuse, multiple orgasms on demand.

Over the phone.

I'm flying to Trinidad to meet her this month, and rescue her from the bad guys.

I'm leaving out details, it's nowhere near as simple as I'm making it sound...

But still, I owe you, and the merry staff at Working Designs.

A thousand times thank you, for every time you rescued me from Hell.

This one will have to symbolize them all.

Thank you.

[Arkhan]

Epic.

[Sothy]

Thats the plot to Suikoden right?

[RPG_Fanatic]

What ever happened to Zach Meston?