Why I think the phantom won't catch on...

[Crush Crawfish]

Well, I've been reading alot about the new phantom console thingy, and I've noticed that many people are worried that all game systems will someday have no physical medium for games. Well, I thought a bit, and I don't think this will catch on, because of:

SEVERE MONETARY LOSS

Let's put it this way: Game stores make most of their profits on games, right? If no one needs to go to game stores anymore to buy games, gamestop, EB, Gamecrazy, etc. will all go out of business. Other stores like best buy & circuit city will be affected, too. Sure, the companies will still make money, but the retailers will suffer severly.

This is all just my random, incoherent thoughts of the Moment. (I'm very tired....)

What do you think?

[Ed Oscuro]

Incoherency is the least...retailers don't have a say, so why would the money loss - THEIR money loss - affect Infinium labs or developers? The idea behind the Phantom is to cut down expenses and integrate the gaming community with the corporation. Simple.

The real question is how Infinium Labs is going to get the retailers to sell Phantoms.

[RCM]

I've read that Phantoms are free with a 2 year subscription. THe only way you have to buy a Phantom is if you don't subscribe and pay for each title individually. My biggest gripe is that the games don't have a physical form. My Xbox broke a month ago and I lost all of my data saved to the harddrive. If my Phantom breaks will I be able to download everything again for free or am I out a couple grand? I wouldn't be too worried for now about this thing catching on. I don't see it stealing Sony's, NIntendo's, or Microsoft's thunder. But then again I would have never expected Playstation to pound the Saturn the way it did either. I have a question, what do all you videogame collectors think about this? What if this trend became the norm. and there was nothing to collect anymore. I know there still would be a lot of games to collect out there for old sytemsl, but what if? What would you do?

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Ed Oscuro]

I've read that Phantoms are free with a 2 year subscription. THe only way you have to buy a Phantom is if you don't subscribe and pay for each title individually. My biggest gripe is that the games don't have a physical form. My Xbox broke a month ago and I lost all of my data saved to the harddrive.
You'd lose savegames and personal preferences. You'd obviously be able to redownload everything, that's not in question...but NEEDING to get everything again would be a pain. :/

[Rev. Link]

What's in question is whether they would charge you to redownload the stuff you lost.

And I bet you they would.

Also, I would be severely pissed if games lost their physical medium.

[Ed Oscuro]

What's in question is whether they would charge you to redownload the stuff you lost.

And I bet you they would.
That makes no sense. You already paid for it, you already gave them your info, and you're paying a fee periodically for the service. They're almost certain to have some sort of warranty plan in there to fix up your system.

Also, I'd be very happy if games didn't come on physical media, at least not these flimsy, shitty discs that are always getting scratched up. It has a bunch of drawbacks, sure, but unless carts/cards make a comeback in a big way (indeed with the DS it looks that way) I'm not really interested. My main concern is over having something to collect, and preorder goodness (which I get off eBay/from posters here) or books/guides fill the bill just nicely.

[tholly]

What's in question is whether they would charge you to redownload the stuff you lost.

And I bet you they would.

Also, I would be severely pissed if games lost their physical medium.


im sure the games are tied to a user account and not just the physical system...it will suck having to re download 10+GB of games in the event of a system crash though

[neuropolitique]

Pre-order goodness could still exist. Pre-order a game and you get in a piority que to download it.

Here are my issues with the Phantom;

1. No maunual. Not such a big deal on a platformer, but on more complicated games a manual is very welcome indeed. Being able to turn to a paper manual is nice, as opposed to turning to the net or even having to stop your game to use the Phantom's service to access the manual.

2. Ownership. What would a EULA look like for a game with no Physical Media? If you use a cheat, can it be detected by Infinium Labs the next time you connect? Can they take action against you? "You used a cheat in the third level of Sonic Adventure, Phantom Edition, you violated the EULA, your game will be deleted." Every console has a Sonic, it's possible!

3. Recovery. Infinium Labs Has to have some strategy for dealing with system failures, and the re-downloading of games. I have a horrible feeling, though, that you will get a code upon payment that you will have to enter each time you wish to download a game. Lose yer code, oh well.

4. Offline play. Again, they must have some plan in place for this, but what is it? I have a hard time believing entire games will be downloaded all at once. More likely, levels, and the assoiciated graphics, will be downloaded as needed, with levels passed being deleted. So what if the network is down, or your provider is? Will your off-line play be limited, or will you actually download entire games?

5. Drive space. What if you buy the entire Phantom Library? Will they all be able to fit on the 40GB drive? What about a swap file? Will performance be affected when you drive gets full?

6. Assholes. Online play is often infested with assholes. How will Infinium Labs. deal with assholes? What plans are in place to deal with cheaters, abuse, or threats?

This is just some of the things running through my mind that could hinder the Phantom experience.

[Rev. Link]

Infinium just seems like the kind of company to me that wouldn't keep records of who has what game, just so they could charge you for another d/l.

Oh, and I agree about assholes. They're the biggest reason I don't play online.

[RCM]

Ed Wrote:

You'd obviously be able to redownload everything, that's not in question

How is that obvious Ed? I have yet to see their policy on that. So for now, as far as i'm concerned it's a very important issue. If they have already addressed that and a user is allowed to download their games anytime then it's cool. But I would want to see that in writing from infinium before I would trust them.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM[/quote]

[Jorpho]

It is now, as it ever shall be, all about the software.

'Nuff said.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ed Wrote:

You'd obviously be able to redownload everything, that's not in question

How is that obvious Ed?
It's obvious because their customers would desert them in droves, they'd get phone calls from the Better Business Bureau every half hour (or more), and they'd be sued at least a few times. This is an obvious attempt to abuse copyrights.

As for why it's obvious - the infrastructure is "always on," and they don't pay more or less when you use bandwidth or don't use it - they have to pay to keep that bandwidth open, and you have to pay for the service, but that's all. Most of the records will be on their end (Do you think they want hackers fiddling with the record of "games I've paid for" on their systems?) and I think that a high number of Phantom owners will have their hard drives die at some point, seeing how often hard drives die anyway.

Sorry if it seems mean of me, but that's the truth. It doesn't cost them anything to have somebody suck up a little bandwidth redownloading things, as long as they predict it'll happen in advance and allow for it. Indeed, the very success of the service depends on how little time is spent downloading as opposed to playing.

[Rev. Link]

Ed Wrote:

You'd obviously be able to redownload everything, that's not in question

How is that obvious Ed?
It's obvious because their customers would desert them in droves, they'd get phone calls from the Better Business Bureau every half hour (or more), and they'd be sued at least a few times. This is an obvious attempt to abuse copyrights.

I agree with you, except for one thing. You assume that Infinium gives a damn. I mean, BBB complaints and tons of phone calls and some lawsuits and even entire websites dedicated to their downfall haven't stopped places like Buyritegames.com and PayPal from screwing with their customers. Who says Infinium is any different?

[Ed Oscuro]

I agree with you, except for one thing. You assume that Infinium gives a damn.
They have to pay attention, or else they'll go out of business real fast. I know Infinium Labs hasn't shown itself to be run by the brightest minds from the jet set at times, but they aren't in a position to try to steal our candy (repeatedly). That would be illegal, and if it isn't now, the courts would decide it is.

[Rev. Link]

You and I might know that, Ed, for we both seem to be fairly intelligent people. But like I said, it hasn't stopped Buy Rite from messing with folks and it hasn't stopped PayPal from letting their users screw each other.

I'm not trying to say "no dude, you're wrong," I'm just saying that Infinium is shady, we don't know how they might act.

[Ed Oscuro]

You and I might know that, Ed, for we both seem to be fairly intelligent people. But like I said, it hasn't stopped Buy Rite from messing with folks and it hasn't stopped PayPal from letting their users screw each other.
Dumb, yes, but I think that's so far outside the bounds of accepted trickery that even they wouldn't consider it for a moment. Their folks didn't seem to know what the deal was, but I guarantee you 100% the system will not survive under a plan like that - and I think the folks who are going to provide what is, after all (to paraphrase Larson's words), the "prototype" for a whole new approach to the industry aren't so naive about their customers (or human beings, really) as to think that would go unchallenged.

Will the Phantom work without an internet connection (and authentication)? That's an issue whose answer I can't tell you. I'd likewise say the answer should be yes, but I feel that's an area where the Infinium folks might allow themselves to make a blunder (even though it's no boon to their business - after all, you aren't getting happier or buying any more games when you're system's out and not working, right?) out of stupidity. The other issue, though, I'm dead set in believing that as some real people allegedly work there (hell, even Penny-Arcade says so), I'm going to guess that other possibility would not be tolerated by the suits. They want the system to be as friendly as possible, and they will be keeping records of what you're allowed access to.

[Daria]

What's in question is whether they would charge you to redownload the stuff you lost.

And I bet you they would.
That makes no sense. You already paid for it, you already gave them your info, and you're paying a fee periodically for the service. They're almost certain to have some sort of warranty plan in there to fix up your system.

Also, I'd be very happy if games didn't come on physical media, at least not these flimsy, shitty discs that are always getting scratched up. It has a bunch of drawbacks, sure, but unless carts/cards make a comeback in a big way (indeed with the DS it looks that way) I'm not really interested. My main concern is over having something to collect, and preorder goodness (which I get off eBay/from posters here) or books/guides fill the bill just nicely.

So what happens when the company eventually goes out of buisness or shuts down it's servers for whatever reason OR discontinues a game you've already purchased? Once you loose those games from your hard drive you're fucked.

The chances of losing an entire PS2 collection, bar fire or other acts of god, are pretty slim. But I'm not sure I'd trust the stability of a hard drive with my game collection for any long term perionds of time.
________
CHEVROLET CORSICA SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Corsica)

[Rev. Link]

I don't think the system is going to survive under any conditions. And my conspiracy theory prone mind believes that Infinium knows that too. So maybe they don't care about how much they screw their customers in the short term when they know they won't have a long term.

[Anthony1]

Also, I would be severely pissed if games lost their physical medium.



I did a post on this subject some time ago. I can tell you that without a shadow of a doubt we are moving toward a gaming industry where not only is there no actual physical form to the software, but there isn't even going to be a physical form to the hardware!

It simply is a matter of when, not if.

I personally feel that, "AFTER" the 3rd incarnation of the XBOX and GameCube and the 4th incarnation of the Playstation, that there will no longer be any more physical consoles to actually buy.

The hardware will simply be included with your Cable/Satellite TV box.

There will be no physical software either. It will simply go straight to your Hard Drive.

As for GameStop and GameCrazy and Software ETC and Electronics Boutique, etc, etc, they will all go the way of the dinosaur. Same thing with Blockbuster Video and Hollywood video, when it comes to movies.

It might be 20 years from now, but 20 years can fly by pretty damn quick.

[Ed Oscuro]

So what happens when the company eventutually goes out of buisness or shuts down it's servers for whatever reasons OR discontinues a game you've already purchased? Once you loose those games from your hard drive you're fucked.
That's a whole different issue, really. Like I said, they'll allow themselves as much room for making screwups as possible, but they can't go too far or else nobody will buy it in the first place and those who will would soon cause the management's lives to be living hell. Not to say that isn't what Tim "Forum Literate" Roberts fully deserves, or anything. :B

Discontinuing a game, though...hmm, that's interesting. That shouldn't happen, and if a game was pulled due to conflicts I think you'd get a credit to your account. That'd be the right thing to do.

You also have to remember they WILL credit $199 to your account if you purchase one outright and keep the service for over 2 years, so it's not like they haven't planned out making credits to accounts already.

[RCM]

Ed-
You're giving me speculation. You're giving me what they might do, what they should do. Until they set their policy in stone i will be worried. You should be too if you intend to game with the Phantom. I don't trust big companies with big promises. I prefer their word in writing. Rev. Link put it best "I mean, BBB complaints and tons of phone calls and some lawsuits and even entire websites dedicated to their downfall haven't stopped places like Buyritegames.com and PayPal from screwing with their customers. Who says Infinium is any different?" Hopefully this debate will be moot and Infinium will turn out to be good to their consumers. But don't be so trusting and naive to think that a company wouldn't try to screw you just because it's the wrong thing to do. It's been done in the past and will be done in the future. There are a lot of unanswered questions about the Phantom still. Their download policy is still one of them no matter what you say until they give the official word.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Aswald]

So, you don't think that it has...

a ghost of a chance?

(Runs for it LOL )