New Gameboy SP Classic PICS! [Archive]

NintendoMan

06-04-2004, 09:09 AM

On a similar tack, it's too bad they're making consumers cough up twenty bucks for old NES games all over again. Isn't this all Nintendo really does anymore? Force you to pay for nostalgia? Shouldn't they be spending more time to build a new generation of game designers who create new classics? Miyamoto is in his mid-fifties now; how much longer before he formally retires from the business?

If people are buying them why not charge whatever? You know, they are running a business.
So your're saying if you were the owner of a bunch of old classic games and you were the one getting ready to release them again, and all the financial advisors tell you to sell the games for $20 a piece because they will easily sell for that, your telling me you would say, since your the president of the company-

NO, lower the games to $10 a piece, I want to make less money!

(I don't want this to sound like a rant, but Nintendo is running a business and they need to make money too. I guess you could say that's nintendo's thing, rereleasing games. As you could say for ps2 + xbox, that they release fucking pointless, too many violent games that just take up shelf space. There are a few good game exceptions though)

Lady Jaye

06-04-2004, 09:18 AM

Not bad (I like the outside case design, but I'm still not too warm on the inside look). I still prefer my pink JP SP, though...

Mayhem

06-04-2004, 10:04 AM

Jibbajaba

06-04-2004, 11:48 AM

I'm not going to complain about the price, BUT I only bought 2 of the games. If they were $10 a piece instead of $20 I would have bought all of them. I don't know how many of you have played the games yet, but the deleted rows of pixels really make a difference. The games look squashed. I really wish that instead of trying to make a "direct port", they would have reworked the game enough to fit it onto the GBA screen without distorting the image as they did. Furthermore, the sound on Legend of Zelda is a bit off. Also, there is something wrong with the control of SMB. I can't put my finger on it but something feels different. I've played this game for enough hours as a kid and an adult that I can tell the difference. Considering there flaws, I really dont think that the games are worth $20, and I only bought the two of them out of curiosity and because they were my two favorite NES games when I was a kid. Instead of wasting $20 on the classic NES GBA Super Mario Bros., I would strongly advise anyone who wants a portable version of this game to go out and find a used copy of Super Mario Bros. DX, which is far superior. I am rather dissapointed and I will probably not buy any more of the classic NES titles unless there is a big sale where I can pick them up on the cheap. Besides, I think that the best way to celebrate the new classic NES GBA console, which is freakin awsome by the way, is to play some River City Ransom EX on it!

Chris

Daria

06-04-2004, 01:03 PM

The thing about SMB is you can see more of the screen I think. I could be wrong, but on the first level there's a pipe next to a hidden 1up. When I was a kid I had only been able to get that mushroom then turn around and slide down the pipe once.

I just picked up the GBA version and did the trick easily. I'm thinking it's because I have slightly more screen room.

That or I just got really lucky again.

Jibbajaba

06-04-2004, 01:15 PM

No you must have just got lucky. I know where you are talking about. The screen isnt any wider, just shorter. They deleted like every fourth line of pixels or so so that it would fit on the GBA screen, but the width is the same.

baddseed

06-04-2004, 02:34 PM

Mine came yesterday... it was a preorder from EB Games.com. I was very pleased to see it early, and it looks even better in person. The screen is a little brighter than my preordered platnum SP.

Now I neeeeed ZELDA to play on it!!!!

ClubNinja

06-04-2004, 03:19 PM

While I give Big N tons of credit for the neat design of the new SP, I can't help thinking that the game releases are completely lame. With a handful of exceptions, they can all be had for less on e-Cards or classic game compilations. $20 a pop? Ridiculous. I nearly decided to pick up the Zelda game, but between what I've read about the flaws in it and the price, I think I'll stick to my old cart. And did they even bother to make the cart gold? That's one extra touch that, if they missed it, would be a damn shame.

TheRedEye

06-04-2004, 03:23 PM

Neither the cart nor the box are golden.

...meh. I went on a very very long rant about everything wrong with the Classic NES series on another board, and three very simple (and cost-effective) things Nintendo could have done to make this better, but I'll spare you guys. Unless you're interested.

ClubNinja

06-04-2004, 03:45 PM

QBert

06-04-2004, 03:57 PM

Neither the cart nor the box are golden.

Wasted opportunity.

Go ahead and paste said rant here - I'm certain that it will save me the trouble of having to most of it myself. While I still plan to pick up that new Mario Vs Donkey Kong, I can certainly do without these.

Definately. I agree too. I was all pumped about this originally but now, I'm not even really considering it at all. Unless of course....I get a super cheap used deal one day. But brand new, no way I have like most of us do too, many other better versions of these games to play.

Qbert

TheRedEye

06-04-2004, 04:11 PM

All right.

I really have a lot of problems with this entire thing. I don't think Nintendo KNOWS what these things are supposed to be. In Japan they were collector's items, and it worked because they're awesome. They came in little miniature recreations of the old Famicom boxes, they're part of a huge nostalgic marketing scheme that includes Famicom keychains and candy and probably scat porn too, and the games they released sold like mad and were cherished at their respective times.

For this NES shit, all they did was take the Famicom lineup, eliminate the stuff that never came out here, and package them as normal games. Like the poster above me said, they didn't make them special "collector's items" at all, they packaged them like perfectly normal GBA games. Not only did they not try to recreate the original boxes, they didn't even use the right ART. I don't know about you guys, but I never had a black fucking Zelda box.

And the lineup is just obscene. Nintendo's not marketing these much at all, so I'm left to assume these are meant to be "nostalgic," as in, "re-live your favorites again!"

Namco's Pac-Man? Nobody owned Namco's Pac-Man. For god's sake, I remember having an argument back in 1998 over whether or not Namco's Pac-Man even EXISTED in America, it's that hard to come by. It's rare, nobody remembers it, and there MULTIPLE better ways to play Pac-Man on the GBA.

And what about Bomberman? The original fucking Bomberman. Nobody owned that either. It was cool when it came out for the Famicom in 1983, but four years later in America, nobody gave a shit. It didn't sell. And it's a terrible game too. But what are they doing? They're shoving it down our throats as pieces of nostalgia, and they're NOT EVEN USING THE ORIGINAL AMERICAN BOX ART.

Oh, and here's a trip. Bomberman never came out for the NES in Europe at all. Take a stab at whether or not they're getting a nostalgic "re-release." they are

EDIT: And while I'm here at the podium, here are three simple ways this entire thing could have been better:

1. A more fitting lineup. Where's Kid Icarus? How about Punch-Out? If we have to use Namco, what about Burgertime? Or RBI Baseball? People actually OWNED those games. We're not Japan, Nintendo, and "porting" these games probably takes less than a day a piece.

2. Better promotion. Make these things fun nostalgic trips. Give out keychains and buttons and belt buckles with the original NES controller design that say, I don't know, "Never Forget." How about releasing a CD of old NES music? All of these things were succesful in Japan, and an integral part of THEIR marketing scheme. All you're doing is slapping old games in sloppy cartridges and selling them for $20 under some false pretense that we remember this crap.

3. Better timing. We're on the tail-end of the Famicom's 20th year anniversary. The NES' isn't for another year and a half. Get it right when the time comes.

ClubNinja

06-04-2004, 04:16 PM

See big-ass quote above

Bingo. In every possible way.

Jibbajaba

06-04-2004, 04:38 PM

I agree completely. Like I said before (in another thread maybe) the games arent even good ports. If they were exact porst with the viewable area adjusted so that there was no need delete ENTIRE FUCKING LINES of pixels, then maybe they would be worth $20 if the games were good. I picked up LoZ and SMB because they are solid games that have good replay value. I would never get my $20 worth out of Donkey Kong or Pac-Man because I already own these games for so many platforms. It saddens me though because the NES is probably my favorite system and at first the idea of portable exact ports of these games excited me. Before I bought these games yesterday I was already looking forward to the series 2 mini famicom games coming over here, like Ghosts and Goblins and Dr. Mario (well maybe not Dr. Mario), but the way the images are so fucked up due to the missing lines, I wont be buying any of them. Like Redeye said, it probably takes them a day at most to do these ports. I'm sure that they wrote a NES emulator for the GBA that automatically deletes every fourth line of pixels, and they can pop any game rom onto a cart with the emulator and they are good to go. It's obvious that no thought was put into porting over these games, nor was any thought given to the box art and presentation. It is beyond me how they could get it so right with the classic NES GBA console, and so wrong with the games. I would have much rather bought souped up remakes of classic NES games like the Super Mario Advance series, or River City Ransom EX. Even though I already own those games for NES, I happily buy them for GBA because the games, while completely preserving the gameplay and old school flavor, have been updated both graphically and with the ability to save one's game, so that they are worth the purchase. I would love to see Legend of Zelda I and II redone in this fashion, along with other classics like Kid Icarus and Punch Out, and I would gladly pay $30 for them. I'm not sorry that I bought the two Classic NES series games that I did, but I am disappointed, and it's the last time I'll pay more than $10 for any of them.

Jibbajaba

06-04-2004, 04:42 PM

Sorry to keep going about this but all they had to do was shrink the width of the game's screen down to keep the proper aspect ratio and they cold have filled the margins created with some artwork or something or could have scooted the screen to one side and used the one margin to display the score and stuff. My point is that with a litle bit of thought they could have made these way better, but of course that would have required thought and actual programming time.

TheRedEye

06-04-2004, 05:15 PM

Sorry to keep going about this but all they had to do was shrink the width of the game's screen down to keep the proper aspect ratio

No, if they did that, the graphics would be squished the other way. The GBA's resolution has the same width as the NES, and what's displayed is exact pixels on the screen.

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 05:54 PM

Where's the BACK of the box? That was a given. Please take a pic! PLEASE!!! :D

Duncan

06-04-2004, 06:00 PM

1) The unit itself should be gray (not silver) with black accents, in actual plastic and not stick-on decals.

2) The system box should be a near-exact replica of the old NES box, though using the Game Boy Advance SP name (of course). They came pretty close with this, but they had to add the "Game Boy" bar on the left side so no one mistakes it.

3) The system should include a copy of Super Mario Bros. within the purchase price. (They included thousands of them for free way back when -- what's stopping them now?)

4) Release games should mirror some of what was available for the first year of the NES' life - stuff like Mach Rider, Pinball, Golf. I'm not saying that today's gamers should have to pay $20 a piece for these, though, as that would be (and is) insane. Better yet, collections of these games in their original series types - the Action Pak, Sports Pak, ROB Pak, Programmable Pak - would be a much better deal. For instance, the Sports Pak would give you 10-Yard Fight, Baseball, Golf, Soccer, Volleyball, Slalom, Pro Wrestling, etc., etc. That would be great variety in one cart, as well as great value. There's no way to have a Light Gun Pak, sadly, but you can't put everything in the palm of your hand. :)

5) Time the next set of releases to roughly correspond with the original release dates of NES classics. Thus, Zelda 1 would arrive roughly a year after the initial batch of consoles, with Metroid, Rad Racer and Kid Icarus arriving sometime afterwards (perhaps as a set!). Selected third-party releases could start to arrive about this time, too. (Acclaim and LJN are not invited. Since they're part of the same company now, that makes it easier. :evil: )

6) Ask Namco, Hudson, SquareEnix, Atari, etc. if they wouldn't mind "porting their ports" for the effort. Original-style packaging would be preferred. (Just imagine how many people would jump on an FF or DW re-release!)

That's just a start - once the nostalgia gets rolling, Nintendo could maybe have fans put in an online vote as to what games they'd like to see on the "new NES".

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 06:03 PM

[Still waiting for a picture of the back.]

I plan on getting one of these, but I have to wait. I have other stuff to buy first. I'll get the games though. All of them. But the GBA itself will wait.

Box.. Back.. Picture.. Please! :D :D :D

Edit: As for the games, I'm glad they're sticking only to classics. I'm still totally hoping for a GBA Nintendo Tetris, (With the original purple artwork and "From Russia With Fun" quote.) Dragon Warrior (With original artwork as well.) maybe Fire 'n' Ice, StarTropics (Killer!) as well as the Japanese second set. I really want Dr. mario, but only if Tetris follows behind. (What's Dr. Mario without Tetris?)

norkusa

06-04-2004, 06:13 PM

5) Time the next set of releases to roughly correspond with the original release dates of NES classics. Thus, Zelda 1 would arrive roughly a year after the initial batch of consoles, with Metroid, Rad Racer and Kid Icarus arriving sometime afterwards (perhaps as a set!). Selected third-party releases could start to arrive about this time, too. (Acclaim and LJN are not invited. Since they're part of the same company now, that makes it easier. :evil: )

I dunno, that might be taking it a bit too far. If Nintendo did that, we'd be waiting years for them to release classics like Dr. Mario and Kirby's Adventure. Nintendo already has the games finished...just port them to the SP and get them out there.

ManekiNeko

06-04-2004, 06:15 PM

Er, RedEye... Burgertime was actually Data East's game, not Namco's. In addition to that, the NES version was kind of crappy. Seriously, I enjoyed the blocky Intellivision version more.

As for the NES Classic Series, all I can really say is that 1. I want that NES-style Game Boy Advance hella badly and 2. The advertisements for both the games and the retro GBA are really cool. I love the weird 80's music and the way they integrate the NES games into the live-action footage. Very clever and stylish.

JR
(still wondering what happened to Nintendo's e-card reader support)

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 06:28 PM

The eReader's dead. Too bad it ruined what would have been a more enjoyable SMB3 port for me. (I don't like that you can not play castles again and you can't get special levels without a second GBA and eReader. Booo.. I was impartial at first, now I hate it extremely.)

[Waiting for pictures...]

Kid Icarus. Perect! Man.. why can't companies actually listen to their customers? If companies would LISTEN, they'd release stuff we want. I can only hope they keep going with the Classics series and eventually release what we want to play.

I'd email Nintendo again because I know they'd reply, but I already know what the reply would be...

"Thank you for expressing your concern about Nintendo's Classics Series lineup. Unfortunately at this time, we have no plans on releasing the second series in the US and don't have plans to release more games. Thank you for emailing and remember to visit Nintendo.com to keep up to date on everything happening in the world of Nintendo."

davidmt

06-04-2004, 06:39 PM

I just added the back of the box to the other pics I took. Take a look at the first post in the topic.

:)

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 06:45 PM

:D

Sweeet! Feeling remorse for having bought a GBA already, not having two games to trade in and not having enough to spend on a second.

But whatever. Eventually. It shall be mine!

Now.. when we gonna see pics of one of the games box? Preferably Zelda or SMB. SMB first. Zelda second. Those will be the first two I buy.

davidmt

06-04-2004, 06:50 PM

I havent got any of the games yet, so I can't help with that. Anyone?

buttasuperb

06-04-2004, 06:51 PM

I have the 2nd release famicom one already, but I'll be buying this too.

Probably get Excitebike or Super Mario Bros for the hell of it.

And Nintendo, please put out Kid Icarus for this, I'll gladly pay $20 for a re-release of that.

Jibbajaba

06-04-2004, 06:53 PM

No, if they did that, the graphics would be squished the other way. The GBA's resolution has the same width as the NES, and what's displayed is exact pixels on the screen.

But it doesnt make sense to display the exact pixels horizontally and not vertically. They should have just shrunk the image down instead of making an exact port, or just cut the top 20 or so rows of pixels of the top a la SMB DX. Screwing with the aspect ratio of the game makes it unplayable because you have to relearn the game. Now mario appears to jump farther because the game is longer than it is tall. Like I said, its obvious that they just created a NES emulator that automatically cuts out every fourth or so horizontal line of pixels instead of trying to do the job right.

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 06:57 PM

Relearn the game? Have you played it? I have had it for months and I didn't have to "Relearn" the game. :hmm:

calthaer

06-04-2004, 07:25 PM

NO, lower the games to $10 a piece, I want to make less money!

However, if they were $10 each and you ended up sellling three times as many as if they were priced at $20, then you've made 50% extra. All about the predicted sales figures really...

Only if the $10 vs the $20 was 100% profit. If the games cost $7 to make and you sold 600 at $10, then you only made $1800 profit. If you sell 200 at $20 at a profit of 13, then you make $2600 profit.

So - what you say is not necessarily correct. In fact, it's probably not.

Lady Jaye

06-04-2004, 07:34 PM

About the retro re-creation of the Famicom games vs. the NES: obviously, the shape of the original Famicom carts make it easier to recreate the look on the GBA carts, although Nintendo could still have made a compromise for the NES re-releases and print the label sideways so that it'd replicate the classic NES carts.

Anyway, I have 4 copies of The Legend of Zelda (3 NES golden and 1 GCN), so not getting it isn't the end of the world. As for SMB, I can play the SNES version anytime, or get myself the NES version for peanuts.

Great Hierophant

06-04-2004, 08:13 PM

In my opinion, it is a waste of good roms to only put one game on them and a waste of the customer's money too. Each game comes on a 1 Megabyte ROM, which contains the game code (no more than 128 Kilobytes) and the emulation code. They should easily be able to put many of their early games (24 Kilobytes each) on one cartridge. That would be an excellent value.

As far as the vertical resolutions go, well they had to sacrifice something to get these games to play on the GBA. To refresh your memory, the NES puts out 256x224 pixels, the GBA's screen is only 240x160 pixels. If you want a full screen game, then you have to sacrifice vertical resolution. (The horizontal image is also cropped one row of tiles on each side.) The only other alternative is to do what Nintendo did in their Super Mario DX port, dynamically adjust the viewscreen depending on the player's location. That is more than a simple emulation, but they expect us to pay $20 for each emulated game.

Remember that a similarly emulated version of Metroid is available as an extra in Metroid Zero Mission.

Don't expect Atari (Tengen) ports for any NES Classic series. As far as Nintendo is concerned, their licensed titles never existed, nevermind their unlicensed product.

Namco's Pac-Man did exist on the NES in reasonable numbers. First Tengen released it as a licensed title. Next they released it as an unlicensed title. Finally Namco re-released it themselves late in the NES's life. The only difference between the versions is the title screen's copyright notices.

One serious issue I have with the box art is its uniform approach. For the Famicom anniversary releases, Nintendo essentially reproduced the original Famicom boxes. Those boxes are relatively colorful. (I wish they reproduced the original cartridge color schemes as well.) Some of Nintendo's early NES releases had the "black background" sheme, and those boxes look good. But Zelda, Bomberman and Pac-Man did not, so they should have a box closer to how they original boxes looked.

I have a serious issue with Donkey Kong. Could Nintendo finally add the pie factory level to the game? Space is no longer an issue, if it ever truly was. They could almost double the size of the game if they did need more space without having to deal with mappers. Otherwise, three boards do not equal long-term value and are not worth $20.

Bomberman seems to use the original US NES artwork from what I can tell. I only have available a cartridge scan of Bomberman, but Nintendo almost always used the box art for the label art.

The Classic NES unit looks like kinda cheap. I would guess that first they took Platinum GBA SPs and added decals to the cover and control face.

Too bad Nintendo could not have made a mini-NES cartridge shape for these carts. Sticking them with the normal GBA cartridge shape cannot do justice to the labels. I would guess these are text labels only.

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 08:25 PM

Too bad Nintendo could not have made a mini-NES cartridge shape for these carts. Sticking them with the normal GBA cartridge shape cannot do justice to the labels. I would guess these are text labels only.Actually, I've already talked about this once. Basically, there are a couple problems with making them shaped like NES Carts, or even Famicom Carts for that matter. The shape and narrowness of the bottom of the original carts are proportionately smaller. Making the little groove cutouts at the edge of the cart would make the carts not fit in a GBA. Also, the NES carts would be way too big. I don't like how GB carts stick out, I wouldn't want an actual GBA game doing that. (With the exception of maybe Boktai, never played it, but I can forgive that one.) At least on an SP.

As for the label, I know there are people with these things in their possession. I can't believe no one has taken pics yet.

Jibbajaba

06-04-2004, 08:27 PM

Relearn the game? Have you played it? I have had it for months and I didn't have to "Relearn" the game.

Good for you man I'm really happy for you. I have died a couple of times because I misjudged the distance I had to jump due to the fucked up aspect ratio. In my opinion these games to not faithfully recreate the gameplay experience of the original NES versions, and are not worth the money. I am much more satisfied with RCR EX which Atlus took the time to properly port over instead of creating a shoddy emulator. It is totally worth the $30 I paid for it. Perhaps you and I have different standards when it comes to our games, but I am very dissapointed with the NES Classic Series.

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 08:31 PM

I blame Nintendo for not making the GBA have a TV resolution. These things would be much better, as well as all those Emulator devices that play old NES games.

That and the lack of extra X and Y buttons.

Richter

06-04-2004, 09:06 PM

do the JP versions of these releases have the same pixel removal problem?

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 09:10 PM

do the JP versions of these releases have the same pixel removal problem?Yes. I have the JP version of SMB, but hell, I don't even notice the missing pixels unless I'm trying to find them.

whevel

06-04-2004, 09:11 PM

I only have 2 things I feel I can add to this topic...

#1. If you want a GBA SP Classic _RIGHT NOW_ and haven't reserved one yet, try your local Target. I work overnight at Target, and was shocked as hell to see we had already put out the Classic (and all it's games) Thursday June 3rd. I was certain this series was a "street date" collection (Meaning we couldn't put them out until the official date of release). Anyways, they're there right now!

#2. I'm suprised noone else has touched on this in the thread, but in the latest Nintendo Power (yeah, I'm still a subscriber), the reader response card has a contest to win the Classic Series SP, all the games, AND a DK arcade cabinet... But most importantly, IT HAS A SURVEY ASKING PEOPLE WHAT THEY MOST WANT TO SEE IN THE CLASSIC SERIES! Sure, you can only choose from a few titles, but Kid Icarus is one of them,so I'm hoping people will stuff the ballot box... and that Nintendo will get the hint! :D I haven't checked at Nintendo.com or the official SP Classic site to see if they have similar polls...

spoon

06-04-2004, 09:30 PM

How do these games look/play when played using the Game Boy Player?

I have a NES Sp and Zelda. As I stated in another thread, I am keeping them sealed.

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 09:46 PM

Judge for yourself...

With Zoom mode on:
http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/smbgbp/zoomedin.jpg

With Zoom mode off:
http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/smbgbp/zoomedout.jpg

Mario:
http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/smbgbp/closeup.jpg

Not too bad really, but it's a little hard to get used to using the control stick. What they SHOULD have done is added a feature to the emulator to allow full screen play on a GBP. (Unless the player has no way to do fullscreen like the Super GB could do. Sad, really.)

Duncan

06-04-2004, 10:09 PM

Don't expect Atari (Tengen) ports for any NES Classic series. As far as Nintendo is concerned, their licensed titles never existed, nevermind their unlicensed product.

Namco's Pac-Man did exist on the NES in reasonable numbers. First Tengen released it as a licensed title. Next they released it as an unlicensed title. Finally Namco re-released it themselves late in the NES's life. The only difference between the versions is the title screen's copyright notices.

I have a serious issue with Donkey Kong. Could Nintendo finally add the pie factory level to the game? Space is no longer an issue, if it ever truly was. They could almost double the size of the game if they did need more space without having to deal with mappers. Otherwise, three boards do not equal long-term value and are not worth $20.

Three good paragraphs, three good points worth expanding on.

1) Obviously the purely Tengen stuff wouldn't make it in (games like Rolling Thunder, Vindicators, "illegal" Tetris, etc.) But then again, what I meant to say was Midway, since they own the rights to all of Atari's arcade licenses nowadays. So games like Joust (published for the NES by HAL America), Gauntlet II (by Mindscape) or Marble Madness (by Milton Bradley) could have a shot. I'm guessing they've still got the original artwork kicking around somewhere.

2) I don't know why Namco even bothered to do Pac-Man as an "NES Classic", since it really belongs more to the Golden Age than the Nintendo era. And there's really no reason on earth to pay $20 for just Pac-Man these days - especially considering you can effectively get the modern version as Pac-Man Vs. (plus Pac-Man World!) on GameCube for the same price.

3) Donkey Kong. What we really should have here is Donkey Kong Classics (the three-game re-release), not just the single port. Adding the pie-factory level - which I don't believe I've ever played! - would require someone to re-learn NES programming routines first. But then...they should have reworked most of these ports anyway. :roll:

Jasoco

06-04-2004, 11:15 PM

1) Obviously the purely Tengen stuff wouldn't make it in (games like Rolling Thunder, Vindicators, "illegal" Tetris, etc.) But then again, what I meant to say was Midway, since they own the rights to all of Atari's arcade licenses nowadays. So games like Joust (published for the NES by HAL America), Gauntlet II (by Mindscape) or Marble Madness (by Milton Bradley) could have a shot. I'm guessing they've still got the original artwork kicking around somewhere.

2) I don't know why Namco even bothered to do Pac-Man as an "NES Classic", since it really belongs more to the Golden Age than the Nintendo era. And there's really no reason on earth to pay $20 for just Pac-Man these days - especially considering you can effectively get the modern version as Pac-Man Vs. (plus Pac-Man World!) on GameCube for the same price.Marble Madness! Now THAT would rock! Well, sorta. But it would be better than the Bomberman or Pac-Man choices still.

As for Pac-Man, remember there's also the Pac-Man Collection which has four Pac-Man games for the same price also.

ManekiNeko

06-05-2004, 12:06 AM

Judge for yourself...

Mario:
http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/smbgbp/closeup.jpg

Yikes. He looks like the offspring of Mario and Q-Bert in that picture. What happened to his moustache? Why is his nose so friggin' big?

JR

Ed Oscuro

06-05-2004, 12:10 AM

all the power of the most advanced portable gaming system ever
x_x

Erm, anyhow. What's with that rumble strip along the back of the case? Is that to keep people from driving their car over it?

The inside looks nice; I hope it will have the feel of the classic NES controllers. That case outside I can do without, though.

Ed Oscuro

06-05-2004, 12:13 AM

I blame Nintendo for not making the GBA have a TV resolution.
Eh? Why not put a real NES sound chip in there, too! You wouldn't have a GBA anymore - you'd have a GBA 2 LOL

Jibbajaba

06-05-2004, 12:23 AM

Marble madness was released for GBC. In fact I just bought it brand new at Kay-Bee toys this past Christmas for like 9 dollars. Its a good port, too.

As far as these old arcade games go, I would rather see them released as some sort of compilation, if at all. I really dont get off on playing arcade ports on my GBA because it isnt the way they were meant to be played. If Nintendo was smart they world release games that were original to the nes instead of arcade ports. I mean, Donkey Kong is a GBA port of a NES port of an arcade game. And the arcade version is better. But for people that have a need to play DK on the go, I definitely agree that they should have ported Donkey Kong Classics. To me thats a no-brainer.

I agree that Pac-Man shouldnt have been released as well. There's already a pac-man compilation for GBA that includes the original game.

I think that the reason that they arent releasing all the good games at once is because they are going to release more than one series of classic games. There is already a second series out in Japan, as I'm sure most of you know. Once again there are some good games mixed in with some crappy ones. I think that they are counting on people being enticed by the good games and buying the whole set. As far as I am concerned, SMB, LoZ, and Excitebike are the only games worthy of owning of the classic games released.

What I would like to have seen and I think would have been smart is to take all 8 of the games they released (or better yet pick 8 or more really good games), put them all on one cart, packed it in with the special edition NES, and charged $150 for it. Lets be honest, it didnt cost them much to make the games, because they were programmed 15-20 years ago. Without the extra packaging to worry about, the extra $50 would have been nearly all profit, and I think it would have made for an even more collectable little package, especially if the cart was not available any other way (like the Legend of Zelda disc that was recently packaged with the Gamecube.) Especially if all the games on the cart were really good, like a NES greatest hits, they would sell a ton more of these special edition consoles, and then later on they would have the option of releasing additional volumes of "NES Greatest Hits" compilations later on if they got a positive response from the first edition. They would have sold way more consoles this way, and it probably would have increased game sales in general because I think a package like this would definitely draw in people who do not already own GBAs, especially people who grew up with the NES, who are obviously adults now and may have not previously considered owning a gameboy, which carries a stigma of being a "kids toy" to certain people.

So what do you guys think?

Ed Oscuro

06-05-2004, 12:34 AM

Wow. I realize I should've read all the replies before picking on Jasoco's well-intentioned post ;)

I totally agree that RCR EX style remakes would've rocked the casbah. They wouldn't have been too hard to do, either, but I guess nobody cares to hear that. It's gotta be completely new or completely old (but...not), I guess. We've already got Super Mario Advance 4: SMB 3 - how much does it cost them to make these things?

I suppose maybe it's a blessing that they haven't butchered a remake of Castlevania in this fashion...who knows.

It's not like this wasn't something done back in the GBC days - Ghosts 'n Goblins was ported and Castlevania II as well (or at least it was being considered - shows up in catalogs but wasn't *released*).

The black Zelda box...sounds like a European Zelda box to me. Why not give us the horrible framerate as well? :x

Jibbajaba

06-05-2004, 12:36 AM

Sorry now I'm all thinking about my idea. They could have made the box a bit bigger since there would be a game in there, and they could have modeled the box ard after the original "Control Deck" NES package that came with SMB, except that instead of saying "Super Mario Bros. Included" it would say "NES Greatest Hits vol. 1 Included!".

The cart itself wouldnt have a menu system. Instead when you turn it on, after the normal boot screen, it would show the title screen of SMB, and you could just use the left and right buttons to cycle through the title screens of all the games on the cart, and then just hit the start button when you get to the game tht you want.

Man it would be SO COOL!!!! And it would come with one of those "Now you're playing with power" mini-posters and it could show screen shots of all the games on the cart. Man it would have been a fan boy's dream come true....

Ed Oscuro

06-05-2004, 12:43 AM

Just like the old days, there should be a 93-in-1 pirate Multicart, with Super Contra 7 as a bonus. <3

Jibbajaba

06-05-2004, 12:46 AM

I really don't think thats what I was saying. These games are all 15-20 years old and I think that they would hold up better as a compilation than on their own. Not too many people will pay $20 for freakin Xevious, but I think that people would pay $150 for a Classic GBA SP packaged with a compilation of 5-10 NES greatest hits. Even just 5 games would be $10 per game. I think that you are cheapening my point by comparing it to a pirate cart.

Ed Oscuro

06-05-2004, 12:52 AM

Yeah, I know that's not what you're saying. Just taking a jab at Nintendo, not you, though I was afraid it would come off that way (guess it did). Anyhow, wow, they really fumbled here, didn't they?

Jasoco

06-05-2004, 12:53 AM

It's sad the pixel they happened to delete goes right through the mustache. If it were two pixels higher, he'd have no nose, but one pixel higher, there'd be part of a mustache and part of a nose. Really, there was no where for it to go safely.

[The following is edited to remove contradiction]
The Emulator on the cart cuts out 8 pixels on Super Mario. 4 pixels on Mario. 2 pixels per 8 pixel block. 25% of the picture is removed to make it fit..

For Tiles, it seems to squish the pixels and antialias them together to make it look somewhat less broken. Still, not very good idea.

But I still think it was the ONLY way to do it. And the best way to do it. Other schemes, like cropping off the bottom wouldn't work for all games. There are 13.5 blocks squished onto the GBA NES/Famicom games. If they were to keep the games normal sized and cropped...

http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/gbaprob/mario.gif http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/gbaprob/zelda.gif
The dark area is what is lost in the cropping. (They can move that dark area anywhere they want, it still won't help.)

There was simply TOO MUCH to lose, none of the games could safely be cropped. And do you really want to play a scaled proportionate version if it looks like this?

http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/gbaprob/marios.gif http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/gbaprob/zeldas.gif
White border added to show bounds of GBA screen. The GBA screen is 256x160.

Nintendo did what they can do with the technology. Fumbled? No. Just stuck.

Jibbajaba

06-05-2004, 12:59 AM

I can only point to Super Mario Bros. Deluxe for GBC as an example of making due with screen limitations. That game is awsome, and I'd much rather play it than this version of SMB. But you point is well taken. The best way to handle this would have been to change te games slightly instead of going for direct ports. Like in LoZ, that status bar accross the top doesnt really need to be there. The only really pertinent information there is the life bar.

Ultimately, I absolutely agree with you that straight up cropping of the screen would definitely not work, nor would shrinking the entire screen. Something like SMB DX is more what I was thinking.

Jasoco

06-05-2004, 01:10 AM

The point of the whole Classics Rerelease is to preserve the original game. When you move stuff around, it's not Classic anymore!

And DX was HORRIBLE! I hated that damn vertical scrolling. You can't tell where the ground is! It was a bad idea to port that game to the Color.

Also, what would you do in Zelda? You'd still have to move sprites and change maps and rooms because you still couldn't fit it all in.

Nope, this was the best way to do it. The point is still to preserve, not convert. If they're gonna move stuff around, they'd may as well make the graphics better, THEN it's no longer a Classic rerelease. It's a whole new port.

I'm still wishing for Nintendo Tetris to make its way over. I loved it more than Tengen's version and on the GBA, it would be far superior in graphics (I love the colors changing with each level. And the effect when you make a line.) sound effects (Especially the Tetris 4 Line sound and level change.) and music. (Three really good choices. I kinda like them better than the GB versions music.) TETRIS is the only one I would really want. If I'm gonna have Dr. Mario in full screen Advance mode (And I will whether they bring it over here or not. Import, anyone?) I absolutely need Tetris in GBA mode. And not Tetris Worlds.. THE NES Tetris.

Edit: Also, here is approximately what Mario looks like on the GBA:
http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/gbaprob/mariosprites.gif

Isn't he beautiful?

Edit Again:
Now, anopther thing. They must have selectively chosen what pixels to chop out to make it look the best, because if they just did a straight squish..
http://jasoco.no-ip.com/files/images/gbaprob/justsquish.gif
Nasty, huh? Seems there's more to this emulator than we think. Squishing, shrinking, antialiasing... I wonder what the other games look like. So far I've only seen SMB on a GBA. Haven't tried any of the other releases yet. I wonder if the missing lines are in the same places on each game, or was each game customly and selectively squished...

Great Hierophant

06-05-2004, 02:57 AM

I take examples from Famicom Mini titles...

Excellent replies. The Legend of Zelda, strangely enough, does not crop sprites. Link and his enemies are there in all their 16x16 glory. The tiles are squished down as usual. This makes Link seem larger than life. Zelda also has some emulation errors, like the incorrect handling of sprite to background priority when Link moves through north and south doors in dungeons. The noise channel is not particularly well emulated, so sound effects like Link throwing his sword sound noticeably off. Dr. Mario's PCM channel music sounds muffled. Nintendo has the information to do an absolutely perfect emulation of the sound channels on the NES, but we do not receive that here, again.

Super Mario Bros has this weird "interlacing effect" not uncommon in ports of 8-bit titles. The emulated Phantasy Star (SMS) in the Phantasy Star Collection exhibited it, as did Excitebike, Star Soldier and Balloon Fight and all the e-reader games to a large degree. The frames overlap, ensuring everyone notices the defect. They used this first, then later concentrated on the selective removal of lines. Fortunately, usually only the background tiles are interlaced, not the sprite tiles.

Some games, like Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros, Wrecking Crew, Pac-Man, Xevious, Mappy, Dig Dug, Ghosts 'N Goblins, have their two player modes intact. Other games, like Balloon Fight, Ice Climber, Twinbee, Clu Clu Land and Dr. Mario have had their two-player options removed. The reason is that the latter games offer two player simultaneous play while the former games offer two player alternating play. What is that game link port for if not for two player simultaneous play? If I pay $20 for a game, I expect a fully featured game.

They screwed up Mario Bros. by releasing the original Famicom version, not the superior Classic Series version later released in the PAL countries.

If Nintendo honored their poll, then Kid Icarus may be a US exclusive. Kid Icarus, as some of you may recall, was originally released for the Famicom Disk System, with saving instead of passwords. Unlike The Legend of Zelda, which was later converted from the US cartridge to the Famicom cartridge, Kid Icarus and Metroid never received such conversions. The Japanese would protest because Kid Icarus wouldnt be as they remembered. Note that Metroid Zero Mission, which has the NES Metroid as a reward for beating the game, has not yet been released in Japan. Perhaps this lack of a cartridge version has something to do with Zero Mission's non-release.

davidmt

06-05-2004, 05:39 AM

If you are into this classic NES stuff, check out the Nintendo web page at http://www.classicnesseries.com/.

There are a couple of nice wallpapers there--only 4 right now but it looks like they will be adding a lot more.

I like the Donkey Kong one.

Lady Jaye

06-05-2004, 10:52 AM

For whoever who suggested that Marble Madness should be in the NES Classic series: well, first the series of games would have to include more than just Namco as third parties go. And since Marble Madness belongs to Midway, do you really want them to try to port it to the GBA? I still have in mind the unplayable Midway Greatest Hits cart (in which Robotron 2084 was the only half-playable title; Defender was ok, if you didn't mind trying to fire at 1 mm-high aliens).

Jasoco

06-05-2004, 01:04 PM

Some games, like Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros, Wrecking Crew, Pac-Man, Xevious, Mappy, Dig Dug, Ghosts 'N Goblins, have their two player modes intact. Other games, like Balloon Fight, Ice Climber, Twinbee, Clu Clu Land and Dr. Mario have had their two-player options removed. The reason is that the latter games offer two player simultaneous play while the former games offer two player alternating play. What is that game link port for if not for two player simultaneous play? If I pay $20 for a game, I expect a fully featured game.

They screwed up Mario Bros. by releasing the original Famicom version, not the superior Classic Series version later released in the PAL countries.
According to the paperwork for the JP version of SMB, it does allow two players. Did they just remove multi-play from the US release?

Also, which Mario Bros. did we get here in the US? The Original or the Classic (PAL) one? I'm curious. What are the differences? It's not really my high priority game as I have four versions already far superior to the NES ones anyway. (SMA/M&L:SSS)

I still have in mind the unplayable Midway Greatest Hits cartIt's completely playable on the Arcade Treasures disc for Xbox.