For Sale: NES reproduction carts ... (not 56K friendly!)

[leonk]

I finally got a chance to create covers and snap some pics of the carts I've made up to now. So here goes: (sorry for the blurry pics.. 4 year old 2MP digi cam.. what can I say)

Sweet Home

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/sh_cart.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/sh_1.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/sh_2.jpg



Robocop vs Terminator

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/rvst_cart.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/rvst_1.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/rvst_2.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/rvst_3.jpg




Hero's Quest

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/hq_cart.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/hq_1.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/hq_2.jpg



Time Diver: Eon Man

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/eon_cart.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/eon_1.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/eon_2.jpg



EarthBound

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/earthbound_c.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/hb_1.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/hb_2.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/hb_3.jpg


California Raisins

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/raisins1.jpg
http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/raisins2.jpg



All the labels are printed on high quality photo labels (matt paper for longer longevity). They are printed at 1440 dpi on a high end Epson photo printer. Here's out it comes out of the printer:

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/prints.jpg

This is my own personal collection. I've created the carts for myself to play and enjoy. I know there are many people out there that would also like to play and enjoy these classics on their regular NES system. Here's what you need to know to get one.

As always, you can always make your own cart. There's great info out there on the net on doing so. Entire forums dedicated to this stuff. Lots of great people that will help you (including myself!).

For those of you that want just a few carts, don't want to invest the $$$ into the equiptment, or just aren't that good with electronics.. I'm willing to make these carts for you.

- The carts will be made out of US/Canadian donor carts. They will hence work in any NTSC/USA NES system.
- The labels will be included. They are more fragile than the original NES ones. So avoid spilling things on it.
- All EPROMs are soldered to the board. Not socketed. It takes a lot more time and effort to socket EPROMs.
- The games are for your enjoyment. They must not be resold on eBay.
- Some games require you to send me the donor cart, since they use donors that are not readily available to me/expensive for me to aquire!


COST:

- 50$US per cart (or 10 games from my NES need list)
- 40$US per cart if you send me the donor! (or 8 games fro my NES need list)

My need list is here: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36163

PM or e-mail: leonki@yahoo.com

[Querjek]

Is there a set amount that you will be making or will they be made on an order-by-order basis? I'm asking because I'm interested in getting one, but I don't have the money right now.

Oh, and "out of curiousity", where can we find out what donors are needed for specific carts?

[leonk]

I will only make if requested...

here's the list of donors. There are many others, but here's what I got that works well:

- California Rasins & Hero Quest: Super Glove ball, Robo warriors, Side Pocket and Top Gun work great. (UNROM)
- Eon Man & Robocop vs Terminator: SMB2, SMB3 (TSROM)
- Drac's Night Out: Bayou Billy, Operation Wolf, Back to the future 2&3 (SLROM)
- Earthbound: Tecmo basketball, tecmo superbowl (TKROM) ***
- Sweet Home: NES Open Golf ***

*** - you must provide the cart, since it's hard to find these in the wild where I live. You must also test the battery to make sure it's good. If you want, I can replace the battery for 5$ (cost of new battery).

[Querjek]

One last question... does Top Gun 2 use the same board as Top Gun (1)?

[nintendo_man]

wow man thats very impressive anyway ill be gettng a couple from you in the weeks come

[gamergary]

Very nice. I had some odd requests for another person but I decided not to get them and save the both of us the extra work. I want to get some of those labels because of their quality.

[leonk]

One last question... does Top Gun 2 use the same board as Top Gun (1)?

On a closer look (http://www.parodius.com/~veilleux/boardtable.txt) neither do!

[MarioAllStar2600]

What are the chances of getting a Sunman made. And does Raisins have a label?

[leonk]

What are the chances of getting a Sunman made. And does Raisins have a label?

Sunman uses the same mapper as RvsT and Eon man.. so yes.. should be easy to make. As far as Raisins.. I still need to make the label.. :D

I will be going over my collection of Nintendo Power mags, and some box ads and recreate it as close to the original as possible.

[mizarkgram]

Once I take a look at all my extra carts and whatnot (should be done in the next 5 days off... the joys of shift work....) I'll let you know what games I'd like and check your want list and my trade pile to see what I can work out....

[Jibbajaba]

Would you be willing to sell the labels to someone who made their own cart?

[Bratwurst]

Would you be willing to sell the labels to someone who made their own cart?

Considering I did some of the label art for those carts I'd take issue with that. The digital files should be distributed freely though.

[DreamTR]

This is going to start getting sketchy..I own some of the originals to these games, so I want to make sure people can tell the difference between what is a REAL prototype, and what is a reproduction....I don't like the fact these games are going to be reproduced like this, but there's not much I can do....

[Achika]

I'm not sure what to do about it. I like the idea of these reproduction carts as CGE and AA both make them, but I will ask that the cart be physically marked in some way (board, case, label, etc) so that there is no question that these are repros on not originals.

I however, do not care to see previously-released cartridges reproduced. I will keep an eye on this thread and have no qualms about locking it if it startes getting really iffy.

[youruglyclone]

damn an actual chance to play EB on an NES...sounds tempting

[jezt]

excusemyignace,
but is that even legal??

[jerkov]

Damn......those look awesome. Very, very nice job with the labels. You don't know how tempted I am to buy a few of these, but I just can't justify those prices right now (although $40 if you supply the donor doesn't sound like a bad deal). How long will you be selling these for? I'd love a copy of Sweet Home and Earthbound, just not sure when I'd be buying them.


I however, do not care to see previously-released cartridges reproduced. I will keep an eye on this thread and have no qualms about locking it if it startes getting really iffy.

Who's producing previously-released cartridges???

[leonk]

Would you be willing to sell the labels to someone who made their own cart?

Considering I did some of the label art for those carts I'd take issue with that. The digital files should be distributed freely though.

There you have it folks.. X_x

Some of these labels did originate here (and I must add.. EXCELLENT job!)

[leonk]

This is going to start getting sketchy..I own some of the originals to these games, so I want to make sure people can tell the difference between what is a REAL prototype, and what is a reproduction....I don't like the fact these games are going to be reproduced like this, but there's not much I can do....

You're kiddin' right??

Any person with a screw driver + NES bit can tell it's a reproduction!

As far as I know, all protos use PROTO boards (which are different from production boards) and all EPROMs are socketed (with the plastic cut in the front). Here's how my carts are different from the real thing:

- all my carts have stickers on them. Real protos do not.
- all my carts use real production ROM boards. Real protos (ones I've seen) use proto boards.
- all my carts have the EPROMs soldered to the board. Real protos have EPROMs socketed.
- all my carts have wires (about 1/2 a dozen) connecting some pins. Real protos do not.
- all my carts have the solid closed covers. Real protos have holes cut into them for easy access to the eproms.
- all "additions" to the ROMs (post dump via IPS) are included with all my carts. Real protos do not have it.

Those are A LOT of differences! All my "modifications" are ment for the gamers out there to enjoy the cart as if it was released.. rather than to try and reproduce a proto looking cart.

I hope this clears up a lot of issues.

[Achika]

Damn......those look awesome. Very, very nice job with the labels. You don't know how tempted I am to buy a few of these, but I just can't justify those prices right now (although $40 if you supply the donor doesn't sound like a bad deal). How long will you be selling these for? I'd love a copy of Sweet Home and Earthbound, just not sure when I'd be buying them.


I however, do not care to see previously-released cartridges reproduced. I will keep an eye on this thread and have no qualms about locking it if it startes getting really iffy.

Who's producing previously-released cartridges???

no one....but someone had brought up looking through the DP guide and getting some ultra rare released games reproduced.

[Jibbajaba]

Considering I did some of the label art for those carts I'd take issue with that. The digital files should be distributed freely though.

So I can't buy just a label so that I can make my own cart but he can make the carts and put the lables on them and sell that? O_O Nevermind, I don't even want a response to that.

It's funny, because when Leon first brought up the idea of making these carts a few weeks ago in the main forum, people were showing all this interest in buying them and everyone was so positive about it, but now that he is actually selling them, there are naysayers. People should have spoken up when he sent out feelers about doing it in the first place.

[nesman85]

Real protos (ones I've seen) use proto boards.

some of them use production boards with eproms and wires running around, just like repros.



- all my carts have the EPROMs soldered to the board. Real protos have EPROMs socketed.

not all of 'em. i have a bunch that aren't socketed.



all my carts have wires (about 1/2 a dozen) connecting some pins. Real protos do not.

not all, but some do.



- all my carts have the solid closed covers. Real protos have holes cut into them for easy access to the eproms.

not all of 'em. i would say that most DON'T have a hole cut in the case actually.

just so ya know. :)

[Bratwurst]

So I can't buy just a label so that I can make my own cart but he can make the carts and put the lables on them and sell that? O_O Nevermind, I don't even want a response to that.

I'll give you one anyway. Having made a few carts for myself I know the effort that goes into it. For what LeonK's charging the fact that he's slapping a label on it is negligible to the cost.

When he starts charging specifically more for labels on the carts or selling the labels individually then he's making money off of effort I did making the artwork. Unless he wants to send out prints for free, you can go to Kinkos and make your own.

[AlanD]

I had a simple solution to telling my homemade protos from the real thing - After testing the cart to insure it works I masked the cart pins and spray painted the whole board either red or yellow. Doesn't affect the operation of the cart, can't tell it with the case closed but it cannot be easily removed from the board. I have yet to see a real proto that was spray painted :)
AlanD

[leonk]

not all of 'em. i have a bunch that aren't socketed.


How many never released carts are soldered, in the case, with wires running around, and have a color sticker ????

The soldered boards you speak of are probably production demos sent to reviewers. I will not be recreating released carts (i.e. don't bother asking me for Stadium Events or any of the Panesian carts).

So my argument still stands.. :P

[leonk]

So I can't buy just a label so that I can make my own cart but he can make the carts and put the lables on them and sell that? O_O Nevermind, I don't even want a response to that.

I'll give you one anyway. Having made a few carts for myself I know the effort that goes into it. For what LeonK's charging the fact that he's slapping a label on it is negligible to the cost.

When he starts charging specifically more for labels on the carts or selling the labels individually then he's making money off of effort I did making the artwork. Unless he wants to send out prints for free, you can go to Kinkos and make your own.

couldn't have said it better..

If Bratwurst wants to share his talents with the rest of you, it's his business. I will not be selling stickers only.

By the way, the stuff Kinkos sales is not as good as these stickers. They use plain labels (ment for B/W printing). These stickers were printed on spcially formulated color labels. They cost about 2$ per sheet at staples. @_@

My ultimate goal is to find labels that are identical to the NES ones.. but they don't seem to exist. The original NES ones seem to be plain paper coated with a plastic film and glued on afterwards. :eek 2:

I've tried running water on these ones, and the color didn't run. But I wouldn't try cleaning these labels, they're much more fragile than the originals.

[leonk]

I had a simple solution to telling my homemade protos from the real thing - After testing the cart to insure it works I masked the cart pins and spray painted the whole board either red or yellow. Doesn't affect the operation of the cart, can't tell it with the case closed but it cannot be easily removed from the board. I have yet to see a real proto that was spray painted :)
AlanD

Alan,

I can always count on you to come up with some crazy idea such as this.. pure genious!! :hail:

Folks.. if it wasn't for people like him, I wouldn't even be 1/2 as far as I made it in this great journey.

I dedicate these carts to the little guys that made this hobby such a blast!

[Simplynes]

This is going to start getting sketchy..I own some of the originals to these games, so I want to make sure people can tell the difference between what is a REAL prototype, and what is a reproduction....I don't like the fact these games are going to be reproduced like this, but there's not much I can do....

You can't really complain about these reproduced cartridges since you've bought quite a few of them (Earthbound, Robocop Vs Terminator etc) in the past. Also the few original prototypes leonk is reproducing that you own now were either dumped before you bought them or you've charged money for the roms to be dumped and released anyway. I for one would rather see them played on the real hardware than some pc emulator.

On another note have the images used to make the labels been released publicly? I'd really like a closer look at the Sweet Home one it looks sweet. :)

[leonk]

Here are resized jpegs created from the original TIFF image files:

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/9e49425f.jpg

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/96f7fe90.jpg

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/da13b91b.jpg

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/b11d0659.jpg

http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/fe159438.jpg

[Bratwurst]

On another note have the images used to make the labels been released publicly? I'd really like a closer look at the Sweet Home one it looks sweet. :)

Here's what I've done:

http://www.angelfire.com/apes/madmeat/LabelSet.jpg

I'll email any requests from PMs.

[DreamTR]

Time to attack your arguments Leonk. I own 300+ NES prototypes. so I have seen more of these boards than you. This is not bragging, this is fact that I have more experience verifying what a prototype is than you do.

Leonk wrote:
As far as I know, all protos use PROTO boards (which are different from production boards) and all EPROMs are socketed (with the plastic cut in the front).

This is a joke right? ALL protos do NOT use proto boards, they are NOT all socketed, and they ALL do not have plastic cut in the front, they come in all sizes, shapes and forms....

- all my carts have stickers on them. Real protos do not.

Real protos don't have stickers? I have Heavy Shreddin which basically looks like it has a production label on it, so there goes that argument.

- all my carts use real production ROM boards. Real protos (ones I've seen) use proto boards.

Not all of them, I's say it's 50/50 depending on the age of the title in question. Hell, I have an Air Fortress with full label with production Famicom ROMS on a Famicom PROTO board inside an NES adapter with full Hal COmpany label. That's pretty different right there.

- all my carts have the EPROMs soldered to the board. Real protos have EPROMs socketed.

No, they do not.

- all my carts have wires (about 1/2 a dozen) connecting some pins. Real protos do not.

HHAHAHAHAHHA, TONS of protos have wires all over the damned place, my Freedom Force proto has at least 10 wires coming out of the thing.

- all my carts have the solid closed covers. Real protos have holes cut into them for easy access to the eproms.

I guess California Raisins when it was discovered was not real since it was not on a production board, and it had nothing sticking out of it, pity.

LOL


I don't have a problem with this, my main problem is going to be when people starting selling them on ebay, because they will.

Now, here's another interesting question. I have a REAL Drac's Night oUt Sticker, and the game itself is on a REAL prototype NES board with EPROMS. The sticker was cut from the actual box art from the never released game, is this a proto? DO you see where I am getting at? Anyone with the means might be doing something like this eventually with higher end games.

The fact of the matter is that you don't know as much about the different kinds of prototypes there are. For someone like me, the value of an unreleased game will go down exponentially when it is dumped. If you don't believe that, then ask yourself why people only pay $300-500 for a game after it is dumped if they are lucky, as opposed to the $2000-3000 range that the game I am mentioning, California Raisins, went for.

Now, the guy that released that game, he got a hoorible amount of money for it, when he could have sold it for much more. We get to enjoy it, yes, but I sure bet he does not question what he did now....it's tougher when you are a collector, like myself.


SimplyNES, do you know my business or something? Did you ask around to find out what kind of games I got? I had those made because I don't even HAVE an NES emulator, that is how hardcore I am wanting to play these items on my NES. Whereas half of the people don't care about value, they want games to play, which is all fine and dandy, but when you start posting about selling all of these items, it will turn into the damned 2600. Trust me. So Mr. Hogger, if you feel the need to find out everything I have and try and use it against me, so be it...I don't do the CPU emus.

[Simplynes]

I'm not trying to use anything against you Mr. Wilson, I was just pointing out your double moral of owning reproduced cartridges but not liking anyone else having them. You aren't the only "hardcore" NES collector / player you know. Also I haven't done any snooping or whatever as you're making out we both know you've sent me your collection list on many occasions.

[leonk]

DreamTR:

You completly missed my point!!!!

Yes, some have soldered eproms, some have wires, and some have covers while others have stickers.

Of the 300 protos you own, especially from the list of carts that I am reproducing, how many have all the above AT THE SAME TIME!??

How many have COLOR stickers ??????

I am not the first person to reproduce carts, and I will definitly not be the last.

Anyone that is willing to spend 300$+ for a cart, will not do so blindly. I am sure that real proto collectors (such as yourself) can EASILY tell the difference between a reproduction and a proto.

At no time did I ever miss-represent my reproductions as the real thing.

I don't understand the big uproar that it created. Like it or not, I will create these carts for myself to play on my system. I just wanted to "share" with the rest of the community.. just trying to give back. (40$ basically covers the cost of material + time.. I still loose $$$ on the cost of equiptment that I invested in!)

Lastly, didn't eBay ban the sell of protos? I don't think people spend 3000-4000$ for protos in the open.. it's all done behind close doors through email, PM's and phone calls.

I can't see how anyone will ever think of these carts as real protos.

My argument still stands in my mind.

[DreamTR]

SimplyNEs, you miss my point, when they are MY carts that I have donated, then I will be pissed, which I am already getting to the point of. I just don't want so many to get out in the open, and I want people aware of who owns the REAL prototypes of each.

[leonk]

SimplyNEs, you miss my point, when they are MY carts that I have donated, then I will be pissed, which I am already getting to the point of. I just don't want so many to get out in the open, and I want people aware of who owns the REAL prototypes of each.

Jason, let me get this straight.

You are getting pissed at the fact that other gamers get a chance to play games on their systems that are readily available on the internet on web pages like lostlevels.org.

:roll:

Of the 300+ protos you own, how many have never made it to production, have been dumped, are soldered to production boards, have regular complete NES carts & color stickers??

.... none.

I think your concerns should not be concerns at all.

[DreamTR]

Leonk, sometimes those game COME from SOURCES you know.

AS for you asking me how many of those boards I have, well, I have copies of a LOT of games like that, everything you see that has been released, and some other titles that have not that I don't own the actual prototype board to, so I would say 10.

[TRM]

In defense of Mr. Wilson:

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/sprout/Spot.jpg

Looks like a normal NES cart from the outside. However, this is a prototype.

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/proto/swproto111.jpg

Cart looks exactly like the released, front and back. Production label. Only difference is it has two eproms, but some Color Dreams/Wisdom Tree games have eproms anyway so it isn't really a difference at all.

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/proto/swprotoboard1.jpg

If someone would make a repro of this, I would be pretty pissed...

[Nicola]

But, maybe, all these reproductions will lower the values of all the nes real protos... How much will you pay if you know that it can be reproduced?
DreamTR, how many undumped protos do you own? How can you be 100% sure that these are undumped? How many copies are there in the wild, just waiting to be discovered and dumped by someone who wants to give the chance to play these unreleased titles to everybody?

Leonk's idea is great. If he doesn't start selling these reproductions, sooner or later someone other will.

Anyway, it's a great idea to mark those reproductions. Experts will recognise them anyway, but beginners may be confused.

Excuse me for my poor english...better than writing in Italian anyway! =P

[leonk]

In defense of Mr. Wilson:

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/sprout/Spot.jpg

Looks like a normal NES cart from the outside. However, this is a prototype.

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/proto/swproto111.jpg

Cart looks exactly like the released, front and back. Production label. Only difference is it has two eproms, but some Color Dreams/Wisdom Tree games have eproms anyway so it isn't really a difference at all.

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/proto/swprotoboard1.jpg

If someone would make a repro of this, I would be pretty pissed...

Thank you for making my point clearer than ever.

You are not able to show us a cart that looks like the above, but has never been commercially released! All the carts I reproduce have never been commercially released in north america!

I've stated mutiple times in this thread that I will not be recreating commercially released carts.

As far as the last picture is concerned, of my 600+ commercial NES carts (and I've personally opened each one to clean the pins) I've never seen one that looks like that. The closest thing I've seen was a pirate cart. It looks like a "home made" PCB board!

[nesman85]

In defense of Mr. Wilson:

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/sprout/Spot.jpg

Looks like a normal NES cart from the outside. However, this is a prototype.

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/proto/swproto111.jpg

Cart looks exactly like the released, front and back. Production label. Only difference is it has two eproms, but some Color Dreams/Wisdom Tree games have eproms anyway so it isn't really a difference at all.

http://www.planetnintendo.com/thewarpzone/proto/swprotoboard1.jpg

If someone would make a repro of this, I would be pretty pissed...

Thank you for making my point clearer than ever.

You are not able to show us a cart that looks like the above, but has never been commercially released! All the carts I reproduce have never been commercially released in north america!

I've stated mutiple times in this thread that I will not be recreating commercially released carts.

the spot cart is a prototype, not a production cart. sure the game was released but this picture is of a prototype, so that proves that some prototypes have production-looking labels.

[Jibbajaba]

the spot cart is a prototype, not a production cart. sure the game was released but this picture is of a prototype, so that proves that some prototypes have production-looking labels.

That was his point.

[nesman85]

i thought leonk was saying that since no pictures of unreleased protos with nice labels have been shown, then nobody could confuse his repros with protos because no unreleased protos look like them. i was trying to say that if some released protos use labels like this, why can't an unreleased proto?

[leonk]

By trait, I am a software developer.. I think the NES community has been using the wrong terminology for the longest time when it comes to these type of carts.. and I think this is where the confusion stems from.

The word "proto" is not good enough.

I think we should be more specific about what a cart is (and isn't). In the software development world we have:

- development
- prototype
- demo/review

and now:

- reproduction

The differences are:

Development: a cart that is in the process of being developed. It is not complete and has a lot of debug code in it. I can't imagine a development cart has soldered EPROMs (due to a short test cycle) or stickered/color/complete labels.

Prototype: a GA test cart (GA = general acceptance). All debug code is removed, and the cart is very similar to the final. Most times, a proto cart (in much later stages) is sent to the production house for final "stamping".

Demo/review: a GA accepted cart that is sent to 3rd party users for a review cycle.

Most proto carts "in the wild" are the third type. A few are the second, and the least amount are development. This is because development carts are discarded/destroyed once a cart is GA'd or released. Demo/review carts are mostly found since the reviewers failed to send the cart back.

In the case of the carts that I'm reproducing, all the games might have made it as far as prototype.. but none have made it to demo/review as far as I know!

So.. once again.. I will not be reproducing carts that have been commercially release.

[nesman85]

Demo/review: a GA accepted cart that is sent to 3rd party users for a review cycle.

Most proto carts "in the wild" are the third type. A few are the second, and the least amount are development. This is because development carts are discarded/destroyed once a cart is GA'd or released. Demo/review carts are mostly found since the reviewers failed to send the cart back.

In the case of the carts that I'm reproducing, all the games might have made it as far as prototype.. but none have made it to demo/review as far as I know!


california raisins.

[leonk]

california raisins.

You're right!

http://videogamestuff.freeservers.com/images/raisins.jpg

Here's an example of a demo cart.. but again.. no one will ever confuse my raisins to this one because this one doesn't have a production sticker on it. :P

Do you happen to have a picture of the board? I assume the EPROMs are soldered with no wires. (I could be wrong).

Legally speaking, there is no difference between me reporducing california raisins and the owning the original california raisins demo cart. It's quite simple. The cart, according to the label on it, should have been returned to Capcom. It wasn't. The game was never released, and hence I'm not taking away profit from Capcom! The game is considered abandomware as far as Capcom is concerned!

This is where this becomes really grey.. and is an age old discussion both here and many other forums.

Maybe this is one of the reasons that eBay decided to not allow development/proto/demo carts to be sold????? they couldn't decide on a side, and so decided to just outright ban it??

[leonk]

Oh.. one more thing.

Who is to say that because you own a certain devel/proto/demo cart, that might or might not, be the only one of its kind, then you are the owner of the actual code on the EPROMs ???

The code on the EPROMs is no different than code on floppy diskettes nor code on CD's.

You buy a license to use it, you don't buy/own the actual right to the product.

As far as unreleased games are concerned.. they are owned by the company that made the game. Not the prototype owner!

The game was never released.. no profits are taken away from the company.. the game is considered abandonware, and this is how web sites like lostlevels.org can legally have the roms.

If one believes that they "OWN" the right to a game just because they're holders of the only known prototype.. LOL

The company is the only true owner of the cart.. not the proto owners.

:frustrated: ARGGG... I had enough for one day.

[Darth Vader]

Let me say that at first I was against this totally. I didn't think it was fair and I thought leonk was capitalizing on this, but after some messaging back and forth between people here who know a hell of alot more about protos than I do, I changed my mind. leonk is truly offering something unique and would be something I'd like to have in my collection as well, since I'm not shelling out over $1K on a proto. If you still are making these in the future, I will be interested.


I've stated mutiple times in this thread that I will not be recreating commercially released carts.

This was probably my biggest concern. If a game has been released and sold in stores, selling a repro would be troubling to me. Thank you for clarifying your intentions leonk and it's pretty clear to me you are sincere. The time and effort to make one of these can't be easy and after seeing your scans, I would love to buy a few. (but I have other things to take care of at the moment).

Achika and myself will be watching this closely so please keep your comments clean and your intentions clear. We don't need a flame war to erupt over someone simply trying to offer games we could not get otherwise.

:)

Thanks

Danny

[Necrosaro420]

SimplyNEs, you miss my point, when they are MY carts that I have donated

Actually, correct me if Im wrong, but arent Proto carts actually property of the companys? =P Dont they say "return to soandso" ?? So you have property of a gaming company, isnt that stolen property? Thats illegal isnt it?So stop complaining. Big Deal if someones making games that are not released to the public. Get over it, and get a life.

[DreamTR]

Some idiot worte:

Actually, correct me if Im wrong, but arent Proto carts actually property of the companys? =P Dont they say "return to soandso" ?? So you have property of a gaming company, isnt that stolen property? Thats illegal isnt it?So stop complaining. Big Deal if someones making games that are not released to the public. Get over it, and get a life.


First of all learn to spell. Second of all, not all of these prototype carts say that. Third, a LOT of these games were GIVEN to me BY the companies about to THROW them in the trash. So take that for what it is worth. So please, after accusing me of being a thief and needing a life, I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself, if you don't have a clue what you are talking about, then stay out of this. No one wants to hear your gibberish when it is apparent this does not concern you.

Leonk, you still do not see my point. AS a collector, the VALUE of these games goes completely out of the window wit hthis whole thing. It WILL end up like the 2600. The values already have gone down exponentially for things like this. Let me ask you this, do you see other people hawking 2600 repros here? This should be kept OUT of the forums. They don't allow discussions like this in the Neo Geo Forums, and I'm sure if the Atari 2600 heads started doing things like this, the topic would be eliminated in a split second.

[portnoyd]

Some idiot worte:

*snip*

First of all learn to spell. Second of all, not all of these prototype carts say that. Third, a LOT of these games were GIVEN to me BY the companies about to THROW them in the trash. So take that for what it is worth. So please, after accusing me of being a thief and needing a life, I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself, if you don't have a clue what you are talking about, then stay out of this. No one wants to hear your gibberish when it is apparent this does not concern you.

Leonk, you still do not see my point. AS a collector, the VALUE of these games goes completely out of the window wit hthis whole thing. It WILL end up like the 2600. The values already have gone down exponentially for things like this. Let me ask you this, do you see other people hawking 2600 repros here? This should be kept OUT of the forums. They don't allow discussions like this in the Neo Geo Forums, and I'm sure if the Atari 2600 heads started doing things like this, the topic would be eliminated in a split second.

Way to not seem like an asshole, man. And don't say you don't care. At least try and respect the people you're trying to refute. Necro was not calling you a thief, he was saying you don't own the rights to the games, which you don't. He was completely right.

Ace pretty much killed your whole argument when he pointed out the repros you own. Your list, which, when you wanted to thin out your proto collection a touch, was sent out quite a bit, clearly points out the repros. Why can you have them, and no one else?

More importantly, you're all concerned about the value. Why? Like you're going to sell them. Come on, sell me Intergalactic Power Punch. .. didn't think so... odds on, you'll be buried with that game.

We don't want the 2600 gotta build em craze on top of NES, and thanks in part to mappers, it'll be much slower if it does happen. This isn't going to cause it.

dave

[Necrosaro420]

HEY DREAMTR, DO NOT SEND ME A MESSAGE ON AIM ABOUT CRAP ON THIS BOARD PLEASE.

[jonjandran]

Waaa , Booo Hooo ..... My Proto's aren't going to be worth as much if someone releases some repros.... :(

Yea lets not let other people enjoy unreleased games on an original Nes cart in their original NES system so that a few Proto Collectors can keep up the value of their collection. :roll:

All I can say is " GOOD GRIEF "

[TRM]

SimplyNEs, you miss my point, when they are MY carts that I have donated

Actually, correct me if Im wrong, but arent Proto carts actually property of the companys? =P Dont they say "return to soandso" ?? So you have property of a gaming company, isnt that stolen property? Thats illegal isnt it?

It would also be illegal to own repros of carts, that would be counterfeit cartridges. And I sure as heck know that dumping the carts would be illegal as well...

Anyway, the people which are owning the carts aren't doing anything worse then those who are making the repros or dumping them.

[TRM]

Waaa , Booo Hooo ..... My Proto's aren't going to be worth as much if someone releases some repros.... :(
"

If you paid the money for the carts, then you would certainly care about this. I mean, generosity only goes so far and when you are plopping down good sums of money for unreleased games then you want to pay the price for a reason, a good reason.

[Li Wang]

Time to attack your arguments Leonk.


HHAHAHAHAHHA


LOL

You know, maybe if you took the time you like to spend ridiculing people who can't leisurely access their own largely undocumented hoard of 300+ prototypes and used it to provide solid information to the community in a productive manner, more people would know this stuff already. This guy is obviously just trying to have fun with a project and give a service back to the community at the same time. Can you say the same about anything you've done over the years?


SimplyNEs, you miss my point, when they are MY carts that I have donated, then I will be pissed, which I am already getting to the point of.

Are you trying to suggest you donated the prototypes you "own" that are being released? We both know better than that and that there are a few other people who will see this thread that do as well. You had to be paid off for every last bit of data. Did you seriously think you wouldn't be called on this?


I just don't want so many to get out in the open, and I want people aware of who owns the REAL prototypes of each.

This is quite a change from your "get out of my business!" attitude a couple posts back. But I digress. Anyone who is remotely interested in prototype stuff is aware of your collection. What else are we supposed to do? Build a golden DreamTR statue and burn incense and prototypes at the altar? If what you're looking for is respect and acclaim, making posts like this isn't the way to get it.


Leonk, sometimes those game COME from SOURCES you know.

And? For a guy who seems pretty set on being known as the owner of prototypes X, Y, and Z, you sure seem worried that this stuff might come back to haunt you at the same time. If you have data that specifically is not supposed to be out in the first place, don't trade it away. If there's really a magic Lucasarts IP leprechaun watching your every move, just waiting for you to screw up and leak that prototype he casually gave you years earlier, maybe you should have thought of that before you grudgingly agreed to let it be released on Lost Levels for the sake of making your collection bigger. Not that there really is a magic leprechaun or that this guy is even offering anything that came from you.


Some idiot worte:


First of all learn to spell.

No comment.


Third, a LOT of these games were GIVEN to me BY the companies about to THROW them in the trash.

And? Just because some guy at such and such a company gave you the prototype doesn't mean it's completely legal or make you the intellectual property holder. Again, if you're so worried about what someone else might do with this data that isn't yours when it gets released, don't bother releasing it at all. You can't have it both ways.

[jonjandran]

If you paid the money for the carts, then you would certainly care about this. I mean, generosity only goes so far and when you are plopping down good sums of money for unreleased games then you want to pay the price for a reason, a good reason.

Oh yea , I don't know anything about buying stuff and watching the price fall afterwards. :roll:

That's called "risk" my friend . Heard of this little thing called the "Stock Market". Well I have and I had to watch my investments become worthless.

How about Gold and Silver coins. Every collector of those had to watch his collection lose a 1000 % of it's value in the 80's when gold and silver prices fell through the floor.

Uhhh and how about Beanie Babies, Tickle Me Elmo's , etc, etc...

That's life, live with it and stop crying about it.

[Bratwurst]

This is fantastic drama but I suspect the thread is headed for a locking soon. Which is a shame, I hope that leonk just makes another post about reproductions for sale. Anything that makes the proto collectors sit up and squeal about their precious unreleased games is a good thing in my book.

[Scoots]

Not to break up the hatefest, but I made an alternate label for Robocop vs Terminator if anyone wants it.

http://imghost.eatshirt.com/scoots/nes%20label.jpg

You'll need to resize it if you're going to print it out.

[leonk]

Hi Scoots!

That's a great label...

It's a shame that I'm not artistically creative like that. I'm really good with electronics and programming (my left brain) but am really terrible at creating these labels.

If anyone thinks they have a better label for an unreleased game, and would like to have it instead on a cart they want me to make.. I'd be more than happy to print it for you.

[DreamTR]

Portnoyd, there was no argument about that, I am arguing it is not a good idea to sell these games on a forum. Not to look like an asshole? The guy just told me to get a life and get over it, when I was being civil, did you apparently not read that when skimming through his response? It will end up like the 2600. It will create havoc as it is, that is the point I am making. As for me not caring, I don't, so I feel like arguing, do you have a problem with that or something? You can all gang up on mere, but when it comes down
to it, if any of you had the unreleased game and paid a large sum of money, you would feel like I do and be in my shoes.

HOWEVER, since none of you are, and do not have experience in this at the moment, you can't really say much now can you? Unless you owned one of these games and got nothing for it and "donated" it to the comomunity. None of this "abandonware" bS, dumping the ROMS is still illegal and making it availabel, so who is anyone kidding?

Li Wang, you know, I am not 100% stupid, I am not going to take losses for stuff I buy so someone like you that "barely" collects anything and only cares about emulated stuff can grab a break. You have no once said a wrod to me except on the negative side, you never once thanked me for the games you guys received, only gibberish and whining and more of the same as I can see. If you paid any amount of money or collected like I did, you would see my point. You know for a FACT that the value goes down now after people were trying to say it did not. My problem with you is that if you are NOT involved in this, then stay out of it, does not concern you. I don't care if you hang out in #fefea all day, you've never said anything to me except to complain, even after deals were made. Yeah, nice on your part.

Also, Necrosaro, what did I say that was vulgar and defamatory? I told you to stay out of this on AIM, that's it. So don't make it out to be more than it is.

[Necrosaro420]

Just think its funny that DreamTR is bitching about people putting these on carts, and how much roms are "Illegal" yet if you goto some websites like victoly, ect ect, it has it there in plain writing where DreamTR let someone named Kevinsomething use these carts just to dump them to roms lol. Your contradicting yourself. Im done with this thread. Let leonk do a favor for all of us like he is trying to do and stop claming up his thread. Keep up the good work Leonk, ill be contacting you in about a month regarding some games. They look awesome.

[Jibbajaba]

Hmm...I think DreamTR and GunPanther should hook up.

[Achika]

You know what? I can see both sides of the story. But, LeonK is doing nothing different from CGE, AA, or NECG has done in the past and that was my basis for even allowing this to go on.

Unfortunately we've deteriorated into a spell-check thread, and the next stop, as far as I can see is nasty name calling. If you're going to start mud slinging more, please take it up via pm, email, aim, I really don't care, just don't do it here.

I invite LeonK to open up a new thread I suppose, or put it in your signature.