SNK's history

[ManekiNeko]

http://grblitz.overclocked.org/snkicons.txt

Well, here's my early outline for an episode of the G4 series Icons, featuring SNK. Let me know if you find any inaccuracies, or if I should add any additional information.

JR

[Lemmy Kilmister]

The link to the artical seemed to be broken. Though i did go on your web-site. Have to agree with you on Tommy Tallarico. Guys a complete fudge packer.

Never mind i seem to be blind. The articals right on the top of the page. :embarrassed:

[Richter]

copy & paste the link

After Arzue's acquisition & before Playmore, you should add that SNK licensed their titles to other companies (Mega Enterprises = MS, KoF = Brezzasoft & Eolith (both of which were partially owned by the SNK founder)

Also, Aruze sold the properties to many parties. Kawaskai's yet *other* company, Playmore, bought back the titles from said parties.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Did agetec also licensed any games also? I know they release KOF99 and metal slug x. Plus you forgot to mention Koudelka. crappy as it may be. LOL

[Richter]

Agetec was just a US publisher for them

[Ed Oscuro]

Looks pretty good - and good luck in finding out who the founders are.

I'd definitely put in more than just a passing mention of the older games, such as Ikari 3. It has an art style more like Rastan than the early Neo Geo games (which have an art style all to themselves, once again).

[zmweasel]

At a glance, this outline contains WAY too much information to pack into a half-hour show (which is roughly 20 minutes after commercials). There's also the fact that anyone can come up with a hundred topics which are more interesting and less insular than the history of SNK.

-- Z.

[AB Positive]

There's also the fact that anyone can come up with a hundred topics which are more interesting and less insular than the history of SNK.

-- Z.

Zack, why you gotta make me side with ManekiNeko on this one?


I would pay for a US verision of the "History of SNK', and pay a lot. No one english source has done it justice yet and if this would be a kickstart to making a larger documentary, so be it!


-AG

[zmweasel]

I would pay for a US verision of the "History of SNK', and pay a lot. No one english source has done it justice yet and if this would be a kickstart to making a larger documentary, so be it!

-AG

Well, you and three other people would pay for it. G4 Tech TV, driven as it is by ratings and advertisers, needs to choose topics with wider appeal and simpler histories. SNK is too insular and convoluted for G4T2's audience.

Look at the episode history of Icons on the G4T2 website. Notice they haven't done anything remotely as obscure and "l33t" as SNK. "Music Games" are the least mainstream subject they've tackled, but those games translate well to the G4T2 demo.

-- Z.

[ManekiNeko]

Yeah, why you gotta make me agree with AdamG after making him agree with me about disagreeing with you? (Now THAT'S convoluted!)

Seriously, though. I think an episode of Icons about SNK would be fun to watch. It's got a great balance of inspiring success and sobering failure, which is what made the best episodes of that other documentary series, Behind the Music, so compelling.

JR

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Do they still even show icons on g4? After the merging all i ever see is screen savers and g4tv. Sometimes filter and cheat, but thats about it.

[ManekiNeko]

Yeah, Icons still airs on G4. It's on in the early afternoon, somewhere between 2:00PM and 3:00PM. It's usually paired with Cinematech, or sometimes Pulse (my other G4 favorite).

JR

[Berserker]

I think he's just bummed that nobodys going to do an episode about M.U.L.E. :embarrassed:

[zmweasel]

Yeah, why you gotta make me agree with AdamG after making him agree with me about disagreeing with you? (Now THAT'S convoluted!)

Seriously, though. I think an episode of Icons about SNK would be fun to watch. It's got a great balance of inspiring success and sobering failure, which is what made the best episodes of that other documentary series, Behind the Music, so compelling.

JR

Behind the Music is compelling because it documents the ego- and drug-fueled highs and lows of charismatic rock stars, not a bunch of obscure coin-ops and fighting games.

I'm not saying SNK's history isn't interesting; I'm saying it's too hardcore to interest most viewers, and too complicated (in your current outline) to cover in 20 minutes.

You should try expanding your outline into a genuine script, and seeing how much information you can relate within the confines of the format. (I don't see any Icons transcripts online, so you'll have to TiVo an episode and transcribe it yourself.) If you can translate your outline into the Icons format without omitting anything and without rushing through everything, I'll be impressed.

Dani Bunten Berry (M.U.L.E.'s creator) is far more obscure than SNK, and her transgender status alone would prohibit her from appearing on Icons. You can't risk offending conservative viewers and advertisers. Plus, she's dead, which doesn't make for a good interview.

-- Z.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Well the'll have to run out of ideas sooner or later. I agree i think a snk based episodes of icons would be awesome. Though i don't ever think it well happien.

Mostly due to the fact that this is the same network that Tommy Tallarico show is on.

[zmweasel]

Well the'll have to run out of ideas sooner or later. I agree i think a snk based episodes of icons would be awesome. Though i don't ever think it well happien.

Mostly due to the fact that this is the same network that Tommy Tallarico show is on.

Run out of ideas? The videogame hobby has enough of a history to inspire many hundreds of "Icons" episodes. I assume you mean the show will eventually run out of high-profile subjects, but that still leaves SNK near the bottom of the list. I'll be surprised if "Icons" stays in production long enough that SNK becomes a viable topic.

Whatever leads you to believe that Tommy Tallarico would act to prevent the making of an "Icons" episode about SNK, or that he has any influence over what G4techTV does and doesn't air?

-- Z.

[Berserker]

I think what he was implying was that if the network is giving someone like Tommy Tallarico his own show, that they're trying to appeal to the main "demographic" that would watch his show, who probably wouldn't have any interest in a relatively unknown maker of mostly fighting games.

BUT.

Who's to say that this network wouldn't want to broaden this demographic by shining some spotlight on a lesser known gaming company like SNK? It would widen their appeal to what would be a very loyal audience. How many people do you think might have played one of the many great fighting games that they've made in an arcade once years ago, but never got into the company and its other games the way the "hardcore" fans did? It could respark the interest of a lot of people. So the outline is perhaps a bit too ambitious for a 20 minute slot. That's what a first draft like this is for, and that's probably why he posted it here in the first place.

Personally, I think it's worth doing.

[Aussie2B]

How the heck is SNK too obscure and hardcore? Anybody who spent any decent amount of time in an arcade between 1990-2000 knows of the Neo Geo. You could make the argument that perhaps the G4 TechTV viewers are too young to have experienced arcade games much during that period, but that doesn't work considering that G4 obviously aims for a somewhat older, PlayStation-playing crowd, not 8-year-olds playing Mario Sunshine.

[Ed Oscuro]

You could make the argument that perhaps the G4 TechTV viewers are too young to have experienced arcade games much during that period, but that doesn't work considering that G4 obviously aims for a somewhat older, PlayStation-playing crowd, not 8-year-olds playing Mario Sunshine.
Judging from their forums, I wouldn't say that this PlayStation-playing crowd is "older." In fact, I myself barely knew the Neo Geo existed and yet I got into gaming with the original PlayStation. I probably could count the number of people I know who actually knows what a Neo Geo is (memorable quote from co-worker: "OMG ED they're coming out with a new handheld Neo Geo" - said just months ago). God help all the n00bies out there who started with the PS2.

So anyhow, you're wrong, sorry :()

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Well the'll have to run out of ideas sooner or later. I agree i think a snk based episodes of icons would be awesome. Though i don't ever think it well happien.

Mostly due to the fact that this is the same network that Tommy Tallarico show is on.

Run out of ideas? The videogame hobby has enough of a history to inspire many hundreds of "Icons" episodes. I assume you mean the show will eventually run out of high-profile subjects, but that still leaves SNK near the bottom of the list. I'll be surprised if "Icons" stays in production long enough that SNK becomes a viable topic.

Whatever leads you to believe that Tommy Tallarico would act to prevent the making of an "Icons" episode about SNK, or that he has any influence over what G4techTV does and doesn't air?

-- Z.

I mostly ment more mainstream and as you put it "high-profile" games. Theirs only so many times you can talk about halo and GTA. The only reason i said anything about Tommy tallarico was because ManekiNeko had (i guess) a bad incounter with him in the best. Nothing more really.

[AB Positive]

Dani Bunten Berry (M.U.L.E.'s creator) is far more obscure than SNK, and her transgender status alone would prohibit her from appearing on Icons. You can't risk offending conservative viewers and advertisers. Plus, she's dead, which doesn't make for a good interview.

-- Z.

Can I see this in an ICONs episode too?


-AG

[Aussie2B]

Your personal experience is not representative of mainstream gaming, Ed. :/ No offense, but your gaming history and tastes aren't exactly typical of gamers. :P

What I stated still holds true, ANYBODY who spent time in arcades in that 10 year span (or even before and after that, to a lesser extent) should be very familiar with the Neo Geo, Samurai Shodown, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Puzzle Bobble, etc. They've been arcade staples for years and years. Even if someone hadn't ever played the machine, you can't miss the huge crowds ganging around it and the bright red cab with "NEO GEO" on the side. And if anything, gamers who purely stick to home consoles are more "hardcore" than gamers who stop in an arcade now and then to have some fun. Hell, even my brother has done that from time to time, and he stopped gaming with the NES.

[Ed Oscuro]

You could make the argument that perhaps the G4 TechTV viewers are too young to have experienced arcade games much during that period, but that doesn't work considering that G4 obviously aims for a somewhat older, PlayStation-playing crowd, not 8-year-olds playing Mario Sunshine.
Go talk to twenty young people who have current-gen consoles, find out how many have heard of the Neo Geo, and then we'll talk.

Oh, and I re-quoted you, because I think it's worth reading what you wrote again because what you said originally is actually a bit different from what you just said. The PlayStation crowd is too young to have played Neo Geo games in the arcade or (most importantly) have any real interest in the system for various reasons, including the "3D only" policies and feeling of the time. Remember that the system reached out to many millions of young gamers who hadn't owned a console before. Given Tommy T's anti-2D rhetoric and the insane number of drooling fanbois/girls trailing his every move on the G4 forums, it seems to me that G4 would be targeted towards casual gamers who could care less about old arcade systems. Whether or not people have played Neo Geo games in the arcade is pretty immaterial - it's whether or not people are still interested that matters.

I'd appreciate it if you actually tried to back up what you're saying instead of calling me an idiot and calling that a victory. My experience may be atypical, but I can listen to other people (and have), and I am firmly convinced most folks have left the Neo Geo far behind.

What this all boils down to is that you're still wrong, and a Neo Snob as well.

[zmweasel]

I think what he was implying was that if the network is giving someone like Tommy Tallarico his own show, that they're trying to appeal to the main "demographic" that would watch his show, who probably wouldn't have any interest in a relatively unknown maker of mostly fighting games.

If that's what he was implying, he's right.


Who's to say that this network wouldn't want to broaden this demographic by shining some spotlight on a lesser known gaming company like SNK? It would widen their appeal to what would be a very loyal audience. How many people do you think might have played one of the many great fighting games that they've made in an arcade once years ago, but never got into the company and its other games the way the "hardcore" fans did? It could respark the interest of a lot of people. So the outline is perhaps a bit too ambitious for a 20 minute slot. That's what a first draft like this is for, and that's probably why he posted it here in the first place.

The "loyal audience" of hardcore gamers loves to hate G4techTV. Not that I blame 'em, as G4techTV's programming is aimed at the casual gamer--but then, the entire videogame industry is aimed at the casual gamer.

I can't see the producers of "Icons" ever having to choose SNK as a topic, when there are so many more popular subjects available to them. It's not the job of "Icons" to try and convert Joe Sixpack into an SNK fan (which would never happen anyway), or to preach to the hardcore choir (which would continue to loathe the channel anyway).

An outline is okay, but a sample script, using the same format as existing episodes of "Icons," would be truly useful. The only real criticism I can offer at this point is "this outline is too long," because it's not in a format that can be criticized.

-- Z.

[Aussie2B]

Touchy, touchy. Where on earth did I call you an idiot or say that I had a "victory" over you? Saying your experiences and tastes aren't mainstream is hardly an insult. I'd say the same thing about myself, and I'd be proud of it too.

The audience's interest is a different subject that I have not touched upon (at least I didn't intend to really do so). The only thing I'm arguing with is that the Neo Geo is "obscure" and "hardcore". That is absolutely 100% incorrect, and no, I'm not wrong about that. How can such a thing be true when the Neo Geo and its main series are equally as legendary (in a mainstream sort of way, not my own person opinion) as the Street Fighter series? They almost go hand in hand. If you played Street Fighter in the arcades, you've almost certainly played or at least seen a Neo Geo machine. To this day, I'd estimate 1 out of every 2 arcades still has a Neo Geo (usually a red cab, but sometimes there are single game cabs or other variations). Many of those arcades have more than one machine, and believe it or not, they still rake in a good chunk of money. People in arcades usually aren't quite as fickle. They want to have a quick good time, so who cares if the game is 2D; it's not as if you're shelling out 50 bucks for it.

So maybe the viewers wouldn't care for a show about the history of SNK, but there are most certainly MANY viewers who have experienced the Neo Geo or a Neo Geo game (such as a port) in one way or another. I bet a lot of people would react to a show with "Hey, I remember I loved playing that game in the arcade as a kid, I never knew that a company named SNK made it and that they made all these other games and had such an interesting history".

[Ed Oscuro]

Touchy, touchy. Where on earth did I call you an idiot or say that I had a "victory" over you?
Stretch your imagination a little...


The audience's interest is a different subject that I have not touched upon (at least I didn't intend to really do so).
That's what the rest of us are talking about, and when you specifically reference "G4 viewers" I imagine you're talking about them, and not, say, penguins or walkie-tacos.

I'll refer you to Zach Meston's post just above yours.


The only thing I'm arguing with is that the Neo Geo is "obscure" and "hardcore". That is absolutely 100% incorrect, and no, I'm not wrong about that.
Yes, you are. Again, I'm referring you to Zach's post. It's more hardcore than obscure, but I've discovered in talking to casual gamers that folks often don't know about the system. Now I know about "age bracket creep" in gaming demographics, and I think that makes your argument a bit more plausible - but this is guessing too much. Who's to say that 3X-year old gamers remember the system, or (once again) have fond memories of it?


How can such a thing be true when the Neo Geo and its main series are equally as legendary (in a mainstream sort of way, not my own person opinion) as the Street Fighter series?
That is entirely a matter of opinion. I like Fatal Fury games better than the Street Fighter series, but Street Fighter is clearly the more well known of the series, for various reasons (one of which is that Capcom didn't rely on Takara to port their games to the Genesis, SNES, and TG-16, and another is that they went beyond simple ports and actually created new titles for the system).

If we can be humorous for a moment let's look at some results from the ever-relevant Googlefight. Of course it would be silly to say it's a terribly accurate method of gauging public interest, but here the results are quite stark:

"Last Blade" vs. "Darkstalkers" - 46,800 versus 143,000 results
"Fatal Fury" vs. "Street Fighter" - 116,000 versus 1,040,000 results
"King of Fighters" vs. "Street Fighter" - 315,000 versus 1,040,000 results
SNK vs. Capcom - 875,000 results versus 1,770,000 results
One gets 839,000 results for "Neo Geo," over tenfold more than CPS or CPS-2, but when you consider that the hardware - instead of the games - seems to be the popular factor here that result looks to have a downside as well.


They almost go hand in hand. If you played Street Fighter in the arcades, you've almost certainly played or at least seen a Neo Geo machine.
"Or at least seen" is quite a convenient catchall.


To this day, I'd estimate 1 out of every 2 arcades still has a Neo Geo
You must life in a very fortunate part of the country. In my experience, Neo Geo cabs are shifted out of many arcades, and whenever you see a lone arcade cabinet it's much more likely to be a Cruisin' USA than a cherry cab. Heck, I've seen a pizza parlor that has had, over the years, Primal Rage, After Burner, countless classic racers, and even a Wild West C.O.W. Boys of Moo Moo Mesa, but never a Neo Geo. I visited an arcade inside a Las Vegas hotel/casino - no cherry cab. I did see a cherry cabinet somewhere in Indiana or some such a number of years ago, but that has been only my second sighting in years. They're out there, for sure, but you bet your life that newer arcades aren't necessarily going out of their way to bring in a Neo Geo cabinet.


Many of those arcades have more than one machine, and believe it or not, they still rake in a good chunk of money. People in arcades usually aren't quite as fickle. They want to have a quick good time, so who cares if the game is 2D; it's not as if you're shelling out 50 bucks for it.
You ARE shelling out good money for a copy of Metal Slug 3 on the XBox, however. Lots of 2D haters out there think they've been cheated if a game uses 2D artwork these days. People are as fickle as anything if they think they won't get an engrossing game experience for their money. If folks are ignoring newer game cabinets to play on a Neo Geo, it might also be said that the newer coin-ops have failed to present as good a game experience for the money. No wonder arcades are in trouble.


So maybe the viewers wouldn't care for a show about the history of SNK but there are most certainly MANY viewers who have experienced the Neo Geo or a Neo Geo game
Many is quite different from a majority, and I believe you've simply confused these terms. There is a really big Neo Geo community, and its numbers are far greater than I have fingers to count on. However, the Neo Geo is hardly taking the world by storm anymore. I have my own feelings about how good it is that G4 caters so relentlessly to casual gamers, and even about how good the casual gamers' perspective can be after being tainted in such a manner, but I have no reason to want to view G4 as simply a casual gamers' channel, or to view the Neo Geo as an opressed minority. I'm just telling things the way they is.

Oh, and yeah, you DID just acknowledge that I was right, by the way. I'm certainly willing to admit that a large number of gamers know of the Neo Geo, but how many people are expected to buy Metal Slug 3 on the XBox (or ports of any Neo Geo game on any current-gen system)? If all these onetime Neo Geo players still were fans of the games on that system, they'd certainly pick up MS3, correct? They'd still be going to the arcades, too. I'd like to be optimistic about the future of SNK games and arcades in general, but there has certainly been a certain "tyrrany of the individual gaming experience" over the last decade or so that has seen folks move towards playing games at home, away from the public.

[zmweasel]

How the heck is SNK too obscure and hardcore? Anybody who spent any decent amount of time in an arcade between 1990-2000 knows of the Neo Geo. You could make the argument that perhaps the G4 TechTV viewers are too young to have experienced arcade games much during that period, but that doesn't work considering that G4 obviously aims for a somewhat older, PlayStation-playing crowd, not 8-year-olds playing Mario Sunshine.

Judging by the history of "Icons," the show rarely focuses on games, developers, or publishers of the past. SNK's glory days, such as they were, are certainly long behind it. There's no "happy ending" for SNK, just an ongoing struggle to remain relevant in today's videogame market.

The SNK of the '90s was never a significant presence in the home videogame market (which is, quite sensibly, the focus of G4techTV's programming), and the SNK of today is a third-string developer/publisher.

-- Z.

[Aussie2B]

Why are you ignoring my simple, barebones point and going off onto subjects I was never arguing about and don't care to either? Stop being Zach's butt-buddy, for goodness sakes. There are enough people around here who act like he's some all-knowing god of gaming (and this I've seen over the course of just a couple months).

The Neo Geo was a mainstay of arcades for over a decade, period. It's influence is everywhere in the gaming industry. Period. Some people may not remember it, some may not know it was made by a company named SNK, some may not have played it, but the fact of the matter is that many, MANY people encountered it and experienced it in some way, and that is the exact opposite defintion of "obscure". PERIOD. "Obscure" is something like Harvest Moon. :/

And I don't know if I live in a "fortunate" part of the country, but I don't live in butt-fuck Idaho where they probably won't even get in all the most popular stuff at the arcades. I've been to numerous arcades in small Washington state cities and they all have multiple Neo Geo machines. I've been to numerous arcades in New York and they have Neo Geo machines. I've even seen them in airports and in my own college. They're all over the place, and I see people plunking quarters in them all the time.

[zmweasel]

What I stated still holds true, ANYBODY who spent time in arcades in that 10 year span (or even before and after that, to a lesser extent) should be very familiar with the Neo Geo, Samurai Shodown, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Puzzle Bobble, etc. They've been arcade staples for years and years. Even if someone hadn't ever played the machine, you can't miss the huge crowds ganging around it and the bright red cab with "NEO GEO" on the side. And if anything, gamers who purely stick to home consoles are more "hardcore" than gamers who stop in an arcade now and then to have some fun. Hell, even my brother has done that from time to time, and he stopped gaming with the NES.

But there were far fewer gamers in arcades of the '90s (even counting the activity triggered by SFII and MK) than during the Golden Age of the early '80s. Most of the best videogames in the world during the early '80s were coin-ops; most of the best videogames in the world during the '90s were on home consoles. During the '90s, SNK was a medium-sized fish in a bucket-sized pond.

The only "huge crowds" I've seen in any arcade so far this decade have been around DDR machines, but my anecdotal evidence is as meaningless as yours.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

There are enough people around here who act like he's some all-knowing god of gaming (and this I've seen over the course of just a couple months).

Where are these people when I need 'em? I can't think of but a couple of threads in these forums where I wasn't engaged in heated debate with several other forum members.

That being said, I do sometimes fall into the debate trap of appealing to my own "authority," such as it is. I'm trying harder to cite facts whenever possible, which is always difficult in an industry where hard numbers are very hard to come by.


The Neo Geo was a mainstay of arcades for over a decade, period.

It was a mainstay of arcades in a decade when arcades ceased to be relevant.


It's influence is everywhere in the gaming industry. Period.

Could you cite some examples of this influence?


I've been to numerous arcades in New York and they have Neo Geo machines. I've even seen them in airports and in my own college. They're all over the place, and I see people plunking quarters in them all the time.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, this is anecdotal evidence, which cannot be relied upon as proof of anything.

-- Z.

[Ed Oscuro]

Why are you ignoring my simple, barebones point and going off onto subjects I was never arguing about and don't care to either? Stop being Zach's butt-buddy, for goodness sakes.
I saw something I disagreed with and decided to write about it. I didn't care who you replied to nor did I take note of who it was you replied to; I just saw a statement that I decided to take out of context. There are enough people around here who act like he's some all-knowing god of gaming (and this I've seen over the course of just a couple months).

It's always really mature when you call somebody a butt-buddy. Yeah.


*mentions things Ed acknowledged* "Obscure" is something like Harvest Moon. :/
If nothing else, the Neo Geo impact has faded; I mentioned that it was more hardcore than obscure.


And I don't know if I live in a "fortunate" part of the country, but I don't live in butt-fuck Idaho
Neither do I.

In fact, I consider Las Vegas (not my home town, but I mentioned that I visited Vegas as well) to be more cosmopolitan than Washington State. If the Neo Geo was still in vogue it might've been reasonable to see one, or for that matter anything classic. Perhaps all the Neo Geo units are being shipped out to your place ;) In any case, I don't see Neo Geo cabinets many places anymore, and it's been that way for a while.

I'm sticking to my *personal* evaluation that most of the younger gamers - twenties and younger - are making up an increasingly large number of gamers and they know little to nil about the system.

Take a look at this (http://www.clickz.com/stats/big_picture/demographics/article.php/5901_3070391) article. Gamers are getting older? Sure they are - on the PC, anyways. All those 18-year old gamers - 37.9% of them - were ten in 1995; most of them would be more interested in Final Fantasy VII or Zelda 64: Ocarina of Time and like 3D games than in Metal Slug by the time 1997 (and their 12th birthday) came around. The gamer who turned 35 in 2003 was born in 1968; THESE people have certainly had the chance to see the rise and fall of many consoles. Yet that age bracket is very wide and one wonders how many of those percentage points are towards the younger end of the scale. This is significant, as by 1995 (the Neo Geo was both at its height and about to start losing steam rapidly) to have been at least 15 requires having been born in 1980 - or 25 today. In that sense yes, a lot of gamers are obviously going to have had a chance to see the system in the arcade; not all will have, but many of these regardless. (Oh, and the IDSA has a rather hilarious typo (http://www.idsa.com/releases/consumer.html) concerning who's buying game software, but I'm straying...)

What's more, as the number of older gamers increases it's quite likely that some of them are just starting. It's safe to say that 50-year-plus gamers had to start somewhere after the revolution and weren't around the whole time - there's a lot of folks who've been joining or perhaps rejoining games in the last number of years. A lot of folks were turned off by the Nintendo era, as well, and missed the simpler Atari age games - having gamed at that time doesn't mean you stuck around or remember the Neo Geo.

This is all conjecture and working without numbers, admittedly, but I think it's fair to say you can whittle down the number of folks who would know of the Neo Geo pretty drastically.

Fact is, the number of gamers that know of the Neo Geo probably only increases much anymore due to emulation, G4 is a network centered around home games (not arcade games), and I don't think their targeted audience can be expected to show much interest here.

[Richter]

taken from the SNK-Capcom.com forums:


G4 ICONS special on SNK - LA collectors can you help?


Hello there! I'm Justin Keeling, editorial manager at G4 media.

We recently returned from SNK's Osaka HQ where we shot some interviews and elements (original art etc) for a 30 minute ICONS special on the history of SNK.

While the company has a rich and fascinating history, it is the fans that have carried the torch through SNK's ups and downs, and have helped define where the company is today. To that end, any SNK show would not be complete without your involvement. And so, I'm putting a call out to you for some help.

We're looking for any SNK collectors in the greater Los Angeles area who can give us access to a large collection of rare games from SNK's history. Everything from arcade to home to portable. We can come to you to shoot some of these elements, or you're welcome to come to us.

These will be used as cutaways and visual cues for games referenced in interviews with SNK staff. Shooting needs to complete within the next two weeks so if you can help, please reply here.

We realise that 30 minutes is a limited time to chronicle SNK's rich history, but with your help feel that the show can come a lot closer to doing the story justice.

Thanks in advance-

Justin Keeling

PS: feel free to add any of your own anecdotes, topic suggestions etc for the show producers in this thread too.source: http://www.snk-capcom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7561

[ManekiNeko]

I was sworn to secrecy about this, but now that the cat's out of the bag... yeah, someone told me that G4 was ALREADY working on an SNK episode of Icons and that I shouldn't waste the time working on a script. It's cool that they'll be doing this... but not so cool that I won't be able to participate. Nevertheless, it'll be interesting to see how the show matches up with my outline. It'll be a crime if they don't at least mention NES games like Baseball Stars.

JR

[Lemmy Kilmister]

It'll be a crime if they don't at least mention NES games like Baseball Stars.JR

I was thinking more like iron tank or crystlis. 8-)

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Hey, I'm glad they'll at least be doing one.

Hmmmm. I wonder if they'll mention the early SNK coin-op Fantasy. ;)

[Richter]

"Post Date : 2004-06-08 02:22:09
G4 TechTV Icons Show: SNK Teaser Trailer

Thanks to G4 Tech TV, we'll have a 2 minute teaser clip of the SNK Icon Show that will be premiering on August 19th, 2004, 10:30ET/7:30PT some time tomorrow.

G4 TECHTV: SNK ICONS Teaser

Learn more about SNK's mysterious legacy and it's transformation from one company to another.

A show that SNK and gaming fans do not want to miss out on."

Head over to http://www.snk-capcom.com to get the video

[zmweasel]

I'm totally shocked and pleasantly surprised by G4 TechTV's decision to feature SNK on "Icons." My apologies for assuming and arguing that the company was too obscure to rate an appearance.

-- Z.

[omnedon]

Somebody cap this please. I don't get G4 here.

[SoulBlazer]

I think everyone knows who SNK is, even if they have'nt played any of their games since they went to Neo-Geo only (myself included). But I enjoyed many of their early NES and arcade games.

Other companies I'd love to see covered -- Capcom, Konami, Square, Activision, EA, Enix, Natsume -- heck, even Working Designs. :D

[Richter]

just a reminder:

10:30pm ET / 7:30pm PT
Tonight

[Berserker]

Thanks for the heads-up, I rarely watch G4 but I'm definately not missing this :)

[Richter]

its was pretty much a cliff notes of their history. some segemnts were really short. They mentioned the CD system, then cut right into a 30sec blurb about the Hyper 64.

Aside from a bit of video, the only time Metal Slug got mentioned was when the narrator said ".. like Metal Slug" about ~2 minutes near the end of the program

seriously needs to be a 1 hr show

x.x

[Berserker]

Well, at this point I'm just glad they did anything at all, I already accepted beforehand that it probably wouldn't be as good as it could have, but that's ok. So, a summation:

-Getting to see a half-hour segment on the history of SNK -- Good

-Having to watch Tommy Talarico make lame jokes and infantile faces, followed by a half hour of some girl dressed as a referee screaming into my ear to get there -- Not so Good

[lendelin]

Of course SNKs history makes a good topic; btw I belittled a bit a while back G4 TV, but actually they have some nice, interesting and informative shows. Icons is one of them.

Manekineko, don't be discouraged. Just take this into account:

A 20 minute show is very limited; you can't pack a lot of detailed information in it. TV is a pretty simple medium, everything has to be short, to the point, and can never be exhaustive.

Instead of loosing yourself in chronological wealth of detailed information, revolve everything around important, basic questions.

Start with a bang! You have to look for something which makes SNKs history interesting and relevant today! Why is the topic important anyway? Look for a paradox to grab the interest of viewers (same goes for readers), look for some influence of the history of SNK on todays market/games, look for something which could explain a present phenomenon, look for an anology of todays companies/games, etc.

Ask why SNK as a developer, hardcore manufacturer was successful, and ask why it plays only second fiddle today and why it didn't survive as a hardcore manufacturer, and THEN you use detailed information to answer these Qs.

This way you focus on certain Qs, the detailed information becomes more interesting and relevant, the mere chronological structure is broken up, and the outline gets much shorter.

History is not about loosing yourself in details. History is about answering Qs, and offering structural explanations. You have to focus on a couple of central Qs.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

I just saw it for the first time today (8/22).